Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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lbk000

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Unread post02 Jan 2020, 07:08

This is fine. Not tackling or running doesn't diminish the quarterback's value.
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gc

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Unread post02 Jan 2020, 07:27

The USAF should consider adapting the GMLRS for air launch roles. The range of the ER variant can equal that of the SiAW at a fraction of the cost. Based on the GMLRS lot 14 contract, each rocket cost less than 120k while the baseline AARGM approaches a million.
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ricnunes

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Unread post02 Jan 2020, 14:47

Corsair1963 wrote:Israel Now Has a Second Squadron of Deadly F-35I Stealth Fighters
01 Jan 2020 David Axe

QUOTE:

The F-15EX also is big enough to carry Israel’s new Rampage air-launched ballistic missile. The F-35 probably can’t carry the powerful but bulky ALBM. “While the F-35I has advantages such as intelligence gathering, the F-15IA’s assets closely match most missions carried out by the IAF, such as dealing with enemy missile launch sites or terror targets on its northern or southern borders,”

Absurd........(as usual)

Rampage.png


You're absolutely right!

So the F-16 can carry the Rampage as well as other fighters such as the F/A-18, Mirage 2000, Kfir and even the Gripen and Mig-29 (your attached document clearly proves it) but for some odd reason the F-35 probably cannot carry it since the missile is too big, LoL :doh:

Mr. David Axe sure needs to review better his sources, that's for sure...
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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jakobs

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Unread post02 Jan 2020, 20:49

Keep buying F-35's for now I say. Now that the USAF is about to buy more F-15's the assembly line will be kept open. If more F-15s is desired by the IAF they can push that decision up a few years, as long as USAF keeps buying F-15's IAF should keep buying F-35's.
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fang

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 13:24

The debate is not F-15IA vs F-35i but Boeing vs Lockheed Martin
We talk about a short term grand deal of Boeing's F-15IA+CH-47F+KC-46+V22+upgrading the F-15i vs LM's F-35i+CH-53K+A330MRTT + a worse deal of Boeing's V22+upgrading the F-15i.
No one will say it loud but by adding the facts it's clearly showing it:
- The IAF has already chosen to buy 25 F-15IA's instead of another 25 F-35i's and is currently awaiting government approval
- The IAF want KC-46 or A330 MRTT to replace the ageing KC-707 and 8-12 V22 for the special forces.
- The IAF want CH-53K or CH-47F to replace the ageing CH-53
- The IAF want to upgrad the F-15i to the F-15IA level and retire the ageing F-15A/B/C/D
- The IAF got 2 squadrons of F-35i under the 50 aircrafts order, on the long term there will be 75 and even 100 F-35i's anyway.

The F-15IA by Boeing
http://www.boeing.co.il/resources/he_IL ... Poster.pdf
Attachments
F-15IA.jpg
Last edited by fang on 03 Jan 2020, 17:12, edited 1 time in total.
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mixelflick

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 15:52

It's an interesting dilemma..

Upgrade or spring for new build F-15's OR just buy more F-35's? It sounds like they can't buy both or at least both at once. And we know how the IAF loves its Eagles. Your post mentions Israel ordered the F-15IA and not the F-35..

That's official? I was under the impression it was still an open question...
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steve2267

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 16:07

If Israel really wants more Eagles, then let them buy them. Israel can keep St Louis in operation, and the USAF can be freed from buying F-15EX's it never requested.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 16:19

mixelflick wrote:It's an interesting dilemma.. Upgrade or spring for new build F-15's OR just buy more F-35's? It sounds like they can't buy both or at least both at once. And we know how the IAF loves its Eagles. Your post mentions Israel ordered the F-15IA and not the F-35.. That's official? I was under the impression it was still an open question...

'fang' does not cite sources but said this: "The IAF has already chosen to buy 25 F-15IA's instead of another 25 F-35i's and is currently awaiting government approval" Good luck with that. And I don't care, they (IAF/Gubmint) know what's needed.
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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 16:56

That graphic needs to be changed.

F-15IA
Range (or) Payload (or) Performance (or) Persistence

Marketing would have you believe that the F-15SA/EX/IA can carry 29,000lb of munitions to a radius of 1,200nm at 1,600mph and then loiter there for 3 hrs. Every single one of those things is mutually exclusive.
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steve2267

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 17:07

I'm really shocked @ Boing marketing, though...

There are at least three hardpoints without munitions mounted...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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marsavian

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 17:12

The F-15 is virtually at the end of its development so Israel maybe thinking now is the time to update their F-15 fleet one last time. If they then wait before ordering more F-35 they then will get more future proof Block 4s so there maybe a long term method and plan to their buying strategy.
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steve2267

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 17:28

marsavian wrote:The F-15 is virtually at the end of its development so Israel maybe thinking now is the time to update their F-15 fleet one last time. If they then wait before ordering more F-35 they then will get more future proof Block 4s so there maybe a long term method and plan to their buying strategy.


Maybe... but even if they wrote a check today for an additional 25 F-35I's, I'm pretty sure they will be Block 4's when they finally arrive. They are not sitting on the dealer's lot waiting to be delivered.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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fang

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 17:45

spazsinbad wrote:
mixelflick wrote:It's an interesting dilemma.. Upgrade or spring for new build F-15's OR just buy more F-35's? It sounds like they can't buy both or at least both at once. And we know how the IAF loves its Eagles. Your post mentions Israel ordered the F-15IA and not the F-35.. That's official? I was under the impression it was still an open question...

'fang' does not cite sources but said this: "The IAF has already chosen to buy 25 F-15IA's instead of another 25 F-35i's and is currently awaiting government approval" Good luck with that. And I don't care, they (IAF/Gubmint) know what's needed.

November 19th 2018, articles all over the Israeli media about it citing sources in the IAF but no official announcement.
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,734 ... 30,00.html

The IAF choice of F-15IA needs the IDF chief of staff (Gen. Kochavi) and government approval as well as other weapon systems according to the 2020-2024 weapon procurement plan (sorry the art. in hebrew)
https://www.globes.co.il/news/article.a ... 1001276467

At the moment the political situation in Israel is a mess and no big decisions taken
At best, decisions will be made this summer

On the package deal LM offering Israel the A330 MRTT to replace the KC-707 and Boeing offering the KC-46, as the next tanker the IAF tends to Boeing proposal.
In Nov' & Dec' 2019 LM and Boeing officials visited Israel to push their proposals, few months ago IAF delegation was in the US to test the CH-47F and the CH-53K
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-lock ... 1001312006
Last edited by fang on 03 Jan 2020, 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
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marsavian

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 18:01

From that ynetnews link

In the past year the USAF has begun to take an interest in the new F-15 IA plane [i.e. -EX], which gave Israel the green light to enter negotiations for its purchase. It seems as though the Americans have agreed to supply Israel with the new plane on condition that it will continue purchasing the F-35 stealth attack aircrafts.

The IAF emphasized that the new F-15 will not completely replace the F-35 stealth fighter, but is intended to reinforce the systems currently in place to enhance the range of capabilities to an optimal position vis-à-vis its missions—from Iran to Gaza.

According to a document presented by the IDF to outgoing Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman recently, the IAF intends to complete the purchase of the third stealth squadron at a lower rate—with up to three planes a year. Once the third squadron is complete, approximately in 10 years time, the IAF will have at least 75 F-35 stealth aircraft at its disposal.
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steve2267

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Unread post03 Jan 2020, 18:15

The only parts of an F-15IA purchase that makes any sense to me is reports that the Israelis can much more easily integrate their own toys onto the F-15, a second seat from which to operate said toys, and possibly being able to carry some weapons that cannot be toted by the F-35 (GBU-28?). And from a kinematic performance point of view, I don't see why an F-35 could not be certified to carry any store by the F-15, but maybe there are some really long toys that might require the F-15's larger size. Dunno.

Now... if Israel has created a tanker version of the F-15, from which they plan to refuel Adirs on their way to the Persian sandbox... then I say have at it. Boing can lug mo gas for LM. :devil: But then I kinda woulda expected there to have been a Super Duper order... :drool:
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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