Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 18:34
by neptune
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/israel-holds-firm-on-increasing-f-35-purchase-424268/

Israel holds firm on increasing F-35 purchase

15 April, 2016
BY: Arie Egozi
Tel Aviv

Israel's desire to acquire additional ..F-35 is likely to be advanced even if Washington does not agree to increase the level of Foreign Military Financing (FMF) made available to the nation. The Israeli government has asked its US counterpart for a 10-year FMF package that will include an annual grant of $4.1 billion. Negotiations are continuing in an effort to reach agreement while US President Barack Obama is still in office.

However, speaking on 13 April, Israeli sources said the purchase of additional F-35s is "already in the pipeline", regardless of whether the requested funding increase is approved.

Israel has signed contracts for the purchase of 33 conventional take-off and landing F-35As. ..and deliveries are expected to begin early next year. The Israeli air force .. with the further units to enable it to equip two squadrons.

......I believe this is the first time for the Israeli F-35 program where they are showing an "evident" interest in the F-35 by spending Israeli money (not in the FMF budget). Has this occurred in previous types, F-15/16s ???

Perhaps a moment of pause for the program doubters, when a user who will "fight" with the a/c pays for additional a/c.
A bit different from those who will cruise around in "airshows (a-a intercepts/ escorts)" or engaging only ground pounders.

:)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 18:48
by vanshilar
neptune wrote:Perhaps a moment of pause for the program doubters, when a user who will "fight" with the a/c pays for additional a/c.
A bit different from those who will cruise around in "airshows (a-a intercepts/ escorts)" or engaging only ground pounders.


Not really, for them any politicians/military brass who want the F-35 were obviously paid off by LockMart, so to them this just means LockMart paid them more and now they're going to go back to the government to wring more money out of the taxpayers.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Apr 2016, 23:57
by les_paul59
Haha, so true vanshilar....What the basement dwellers don't realize is the fact that the Israelis are buying the f-35 is one of the greatest endorsements of its capability.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 04:18
by XanderCrews
vanshilar wrote:
neptune wrote:Perhaps a moment of pause for the program doubters, when a user who will "fight" with the a/c pays for additional a/c.
A bit different from those who will cruise around in "airshows (a-a intercepts/ escorts)" or engaging only ground pounders.


Not really, for them any politicians/military brass who want the F-35 were obviously paid off by LockMart, so to them this just means LockMart paid them more and now they're going to go back to the government to wring more money out of the taxpayers.



The goal posts shift all the time. First it was "let's see what the test pilots say!" Then they approved. So it was "let's see what the operational pilots say!" Then they approved so it was "let's see what the F-22 pilots say!" And they approved. then it shifTed with the A-10 to "well let's see what the grunts say!" And the JTACS and A-10 guys approved. Hell even the DOT&E guys are saying F-35 is going to be great. The international partners especially israel which is well respected approve.

So they are all bribed now lol

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 May 2016, 19:57
by spazsinbad
Israel prepares ground for F-35I testing
31 May 2016 Arie Egozi

"The Israeli air force's chief flight test engineer wants an early as possible delivery of its Lockheed Martin F-35 test asset, to expedite the process of adapting locally-produced weapon systems to the aircraft.

Israel's contracts for the F-35I "Adir" include a test example, which will be operated by its flight-test centre.

According to the centre's chief flight-test engineer – identified only as Lt Col Ori – the test aircraft will also have an operational capability, but its main duty will be to enable the development of Israeli systems to enhance the F-35's combat capabilities for Israel.

"We will have to test Israeli-made weapons systems, so that they can be carried in the weapons bay of the aircraft – and test it under different situations," he says.

Israel's first two F-35s are scheduled to land in the nation on 12 December. Adaptations for its air force include enabling the fighter to carry Rafael's Python 5 and Derby air-to-air missiles, along with the same company's Litening 5 targeting pod.

Another six F-35s will be delivered to Israel in 2017, with its air force having so far committed to acquiring an additional 25 conventional take-off and landing examples."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-425887/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 01:23
by spazsinbad
It’s two weeks to the touchdown of the world’s most advanced fighter jet in Israel.
29 Nov 2016 ANNA AHRONHEIM

"...Nonetheless, Israel is still said to be considering acquiring the F-35B Lightning II short takeoff/vertical landing jets. According to Lockheed Martin, the B variant “is designed to operate from austere bases and a range of air-capable ships near front line combat zones. It can also take off and land conventionally from longer runways on major bases.” This could be crucial at times of war when air force bases – and particularly runways – will likely be hit by enemy missiles and rockets.

On Sunday, the security cabinet decided unanimously to purchase an additional 17 F-35s, bringing the number of the advanced jets in the IAF to 50On Sunday, the security cabinet decided unanimously to purchase an additional 17 F-35s, bringing the number of the advanced jets in the IAF to 50."

Source: http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israel ... ars-473983

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 04:03
by steve2267
spazsinbad wrote:
Israel prepares ground for F-35I testing
31 May 2016 Arie Egozi

<snip>

Israel's first two F-35s are scheduled to land in the nation on 12 December. Adaptations for its air force include enabling the fighter to carry Rafael's Python 5 and Derby air-to-air missiles, along with the same company's Litening 5 targeting pod.

<snip>

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-425887/


What am I missing here? Why would Israel need or want a targeting pod on their F-35's? Isn't that built-in to the F-35?

Or is the US disabling that feature or capability on Israeli Xwings? Or is it a software release issue - that functionality will not be available for a few years and the Israelis need it from day one?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 04:19
by spazsinbad
I do not know what an Israel LITENING 5 targeting pod has innit. However searching/riffing usembassy one will find a graphic showing what is to come in BLOCK 4 that is not likely in BLOCK 3F. Probably 'SWP' later Block 4 graphic (in the BLOCK FOUR? thread viewtopic.php?f=62&t=27390 ) is probably more up to date. viewtopic.php?f=54&t=14259&p=303841&hilit=usembassy#p303841

IF the pod has comms then these are important to Israel CONOPs:
Rafael Unveiling Litening 5, RecceLite XR
15 Jun 2015 Noam Eshel

"...Rafael’s “image-based common targeting language,” also known as Matchguide, is integrated in the new pod. This allows rapid target handoff between the targeting pod or ground-based forward air controller and guided weapons carried on board. Matchguide is fully integrated in the Litening 5, enabling the pilot or ground controller to designate a target simply by touching its image on a display to deliver the targeting as coordinates or a scene to the attacking weapon. This method dramatically shortens the “sensor to shooter cycle.”..."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/paris-air-show- ... ccelite-xr


'SWP' graphic: http://i.imgur.com/SKSuldO.png & http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt27 ... c5bbbf.jpg

download/file.php?id=21723&t=1

Image

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 04:46
by SpudmanWP
Rafael has talked about an upgrade to EOTS based on their LITENING tech. Would this mean that lightning can strike twice? 8)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 05:08
by spazsinbad
LITENING

",,,Future developments
Rafael sees an increased market in the future because of the move to stealth platforms which must have targeting systems built in. The company is developing a new model to compete for the F-35 requirement. At present prototype F-35's have the equivalent of a Lockheed Martin Sniper XR built in."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LITENING

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 05:32
by popcorn
spazsinbad wrote:
LITENING

",,,Future developments
Rafael sees an increased market in the future because of the move to stealth platforms which must have targeting systems built in. The company is developing a new model to compete for the F-35 requirement. At present prototype F-35's have the equivalent of a Lockheed Martin Sniper XR built in."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LITENING

Terma has a LO pod unless Rafael wants to reinvent the wheel.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 06:05
by SpudmanWP
Rafael is talking about a complete swap of the current EOTS, not a strap-on pod unless they want a larger aperture for recce work.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Dec 2016, 12:03
by spazsinbad
Betcha youse did'na know this...
OPINION: Western fighter manufacturers can breathe easier
05 Dec 2015 Flight International [flite gobeldegook more likely]

"...The longer-than-expected development path for the Lockheed Martin F-35 has played some part in the good fortunes of its rivals – but bar Canada, all its expected participants remain on board. Japan has just received its first example to support training, and the lead two F-15Is will head for Israel in mid-December. The Lightning II has a long way to go on its path to becoming combat-ready, but our directory shows the in-service fleet as having now reached 167 units...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -e-432014/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 09 Dec 2016, 21:43
by spazsinbad
Israel 'Ready' to Operate F-35s Without Ever Actually Flying Them
08 Dec 2016 Barbara Opall-Rome

"TEL AVIV – Israel’s scheduled Dec. 12 receipt of its first pair of F-35I Adir (Awesome) fighters caps nearly a decade of planning, and that’s all before a single Israel Air Force pilot has actually taken to the skies in its new stealth weapon.

Israeli pilots have been training at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona for more than a year, but unlike F-35 compatriots from the US, Norway, Australia and other nations who are actually flying the fifth-generation fighter, Israel has elected to limit pilot training to course work and the high-fidelity simulator built by prime contractor Lockheed Martin.

“We haven’t yet flown on the plane. That was our choice,” a general officer on the Israel Air Force (IAF) headquarters staff told Defense News.


“Decades ago, when we prepared for our first F-15s and F-16s, we needed to fly in the aircraft. But today, the situation is different for two key reasons: Firstly, the simulators are so reliable and secondly, it’s a single-seater. So it doesn’t matter if we fly here or there, because there’s no instructor up there with you in the cockpit,” the senior officer said.

He added, “We’ve gone through extensive simulator training and we’ve received all the information we needed through wonderful cooperation. … From our point of view, once they land here on 12 December, we’re ready to fly.”...

...Col. Asaf, the deputy commander of the F-35I’s designated home base at Nevatim, told reporters here that work to stand up the new Adir Squadron started about 18 months ago. The officer, whose surname was withheld for security reasons, said the sprawling base – one of three built after the 1979 peace treaty with Egypt – would house five operational squadrons, including the new 140th Squadron of new F-35Is....

...The F-35 simulator will feature prominently in the expanded Nevatim base, officers here said.

By the end of next year, with nine F-35Is delivered into Israeli hands, the service expects to be in a position to declare Initial Operational Capability (IOC), officers here said....

...Future plans include acquisition of another 25 F-35Is – possibly F-35B-model short-takeoff and landing versions – which would up Israel’s stealth force to a full 75 aircraft."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/isr ... lly-flying

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2016, 05:32
by steve2267
spazsinbad wrote:
Israel 'Ready' to Operate F-35s Without Ever Actually Flying Them
08 Dec 2016 Barbara Opall-Rome

<snip>

By the end of next year, with nine F-35Is delivered into Israeli hands, the service expects to be in a position to declare Initial Operational Capability (IOC), officers here said....

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/isr ... lly-flying


Wait, wait! Can they do that?!? Are they sure? Gilmore says the F-35 is behind schedule and may never fulfill its full combat potential! :mrgreen: :devil:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2016, 06:15
by spazsinbad
Sucks to be Israel paying for their exorbitantly priced jets - according to this reporter - whatup - Gifts/Horses/Don't look?
First two F-35 jets en route to Israel
08 Dec 29=016 Judah Ari Gross & Times of Israel staff

"...The purchase of the exorbitantly expensive planes — at more than NIS 380 million ($100 million) per plane — is possible, in part, due to the defense aid package given by the United States to Israel each year....

“It is clear and obvious to us, and to the entire region, that the new F-35 — the Adir — will create real deterrence and enhance our capabilities for a long time,” [Israeli DefMin] Liberman said."

Source: http://www.timesofisrael.com/first-two- ... to-israel/


Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2016, 21:04
by spazsinbad
F-35 Triggers Conceptual Overhaul in Israel Air Force
11 Dec 2016 Barbara Opall-Rome

TEL AVIV — Nearly a decade of planning preceded Monday's scheduled delivery of the first F-35Is to the Israel Air Force (IAF), but once they touch down at the stealth fighter’s desert base at Nevatim, another process will just begin, with vast implications on how Israel wields airpower near and very far from home.

From the single network that will support the IAF’s ability to use the fifth-generation Adir (Awesome/Magnificent) alongside fourth-generation fighters to hunt and fight in packs to the means by which it trains and maintains its combined force, the new F-35Is will be driving wholesale changes throughout the mightiest air force in the Middle East.

“The IAF needs to adapt itself to this fifth-generation plane, and not vice versa,” a general officer on the IAF Air Staff told Defense News.

“We need to look at all our existing concepts and to re-evaluate them as a result of this capability. We’ll ask questions we never asked before, because we’ve been used to training, operating and supporting according to fourth-generation concepts.”

From “Day 1” of the Adir’s arrival, the general officer said the new fighters will be co-located with an F-16I “escorting squadron” to allow the service to determine all it needs for seamless integration of its frontline fighter force.

“We need this quality team from Day 1 to live together, train together and learn all they need to speak the same language,” the officer said.

“We’ve defined the team’s mission as escorting the Adir and leading the way to joining fourth- and fifth-generation elements of our force,” he said.

“Of course, this F-16I squadron will have other missions. It’s not a dedicated team in the purest sense, since we don’t have the luxury of a stand-alone squadron. But their mission is clear: As smartly and as quickly as possible, we need to create a truly integrated force of fourth- and fifth-generation assets.”

As an example of “refusing to be locked into old concepts,” the officer cited the distances at which IAF fighters currently fly in operational formation; distances now determined by visual contact.

“We shouldn’t be using this plane in visual range. So it’s likely that we’ll fly differently in the formation,” he said.

Composition of force packages will also change, since the F-35I’s stealth capabilities should lessen the need in many combat scenarios for beefed up support and special mission aircraft.

All that, he emphasizes, is predicated on Israel’s ability to integrate its own communication system produced by state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and electronic warfare capabilities by Elbit’s Elisra in the new Adir force.

“At this point, it’s still theoretical. The F-35s that arrive here are basic aircraft. We need to integrate all these capabilities so have self-sufficiency with communications and electronic warfare. This is crucial for us to allow the networked connection with our four-generation force.

“Otherwise, if the F-35 is detached from the rest of our force, it has no significance in terms of networked operations force-wide,” he added.

In terms of maintenance, the officer noted that the new F-35I comes with its own simulator for technicians; something that the service may seek to replicate for fourth-generation fighters.

“Before, when we thought about simulators, we thought about pilot training. But now there is a simulator for technicians, and we may want this for our fourth-generation aircraft,” he said.

And unlike other partner members of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program, where depot-level maintenance will be performed at designed depots, Israel has been working with the US government and Lockheed Martin to ensure that no F-35I aircraft will ever leave the country.

“The intention is that the platform stays here. That’s obvious, due to our clear and compelling need for self-sufficiency,” the general officer said.

“Of course, some elements we may need to send to another place to fix. But in most cases, we should we able to replace them from what’s on the shelf … The important thing is that we will not send aircraft out of the country.”

He noted that because the aircraft are new, depot-level maintenance should not be relevant for years — perhaps more than a decade — to come, given the manufacturers advertised lifespan of some 50 years. But once it becomes relevant, Israel hopes to have put in place a process whereby depot-level work will be done in-country...."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/f-3 ... -air-force

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 03:07
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:.....

All that, he emphasizes, is predicated on Israel’s ability to integrate its own communication system produced by state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and electronic warfare capabilities by Elbit’s Elisra in the new Adir force. ..


...per this article we again hear about the "Israeli" modifications;

1. "to integrate its own communication system produced by state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI)"...is this similar to the 5th gen to 4th gen comm. issue that is being worked similarly by the program users and JPO.. (a different software set)...?

2. "electronic warfare capabilities by Elbit’s Elisra"...might this be a unique data set from Israeli intelligence for their specialized operations that would be similar to the mission data sets that would be built for the other program users..(a different software set)..?

.....perhaps neither of these are the radical "rip out and replace" hardware butchering that was mentioned long ago!
Not that I would waste time trying to anticipate/ imagine "Any" Israeli "improvements"!

:shock:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 03:20
by spazsinbad
Don't know why you use colourful language however several posts in the past have given details somewhat about a black box interface enabling the Israeli modifications. No butchering required. Here is a clue: articles in forum at the time...

You will find this article below replicated a few times when forum searched for ALON three pages of results found so look at the 3rd the last page for them. Ensure last search box all available characters of posts ticked.
Israel To Buy F-35s With Cockpit Mods
27 Aug 2010 Alon Ben-David

"Israel is pressing ahead with its purchase of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, after securing U.S. approval to install Israeli munitions on the aircraft and a pledge to adjust the electronic warfare suite to emerging Middle East threats.

"The aircraft will be designated F-35I, as there will be unique Israeli features installed in them," a senior Israel air force official tells Aviation Week.

Israel's initial batch will be almost identical to the international JSF offered to other countries, with one difference: The F-35s manufactured for Israel will include several cockpit interfaces to accommodate the air force's command, control, communications, computer and intelligence systems. The F-35 main computer will enable a plug-and-play feature for Israeli equipment...."

Source: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... 249396.xml no longer there but replicated here: http://list.freeman.org/pipermail/freem ... 13664.html

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 21:43
by zerion
Israel's first F-35 jets land as Trump blasts costs

In Israel, the first two F-35s landed at Nevatim air base at around 8.15 pm (1845 GMT), around six hours late after being delayed by bad weather in Italy, believed to be fog.

Some 4,000 people had been expected to watch the landings but the crowds thinned as the landing was delayed, leaving only around half the seats full by nightfall.

The two planes came to a halt in front of the spectators, one on each side of the stage erected for speeches of welcome.

"The aircraft landing here will change the rules of the game," President Reuven Rivlin said...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israels-firs ... 24043.html


Photo at link

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 22:07
by SpudmanWP
Looks like it did not get it's logos restored at the FACO.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 22:25
by zerion

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2016, 22:40
by SpudmanWP
They put it on in Israel as part of the ceremony.

Image

IAF Commander, Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel & President of Israel, Reuven (Ruvi) Rivlin gluing the IAF roundel on the “Adir” | Photography: Mor Tzidon

Image
The "Adir" (F-35I) | Photography: Mor Tzidon

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 02:38
by spazsinbad
From 'zerion' post above.
The “Adir” Has Landed
12 Dec 2016 Zohar Boneh

"...Combining Man and Machine
The pair of “Adir” (F-35I) jets that landed today are the first of 50 aircraft whose acquisition has been agreed upon so far. They will bring the IAF into the fifth generation of fighter aircraft and consist of a significant quantum jump in capability. The jets hold advanced capabilities new to the IAF such as sensor fusion, stealth and situation awareness. In addition, their arrival will bring new concepts into the IAF in various fields such as logistics, training and instruction. An example for such a conceptual change is the heightened significance of simulators in “Adir” pilot training. The IAF aspires to perform 50% of “Adir” flight hours in simulators....

...From the First Flight to Operational Activity
Six years after the acquisition deal was signed and a year and a half since the “Golden Eagle” Squadron (that will receive and operate the “Adir”) was established, the jets have arrived in Israel. Until now, the squadron personnel: pilots, ground crews, intelligence and operations personnel studied the advanced stealth fighter in order to achieve their goal – the “Adir”, operational by December 2017. “The IAF Commander gave us a goal – to take off for our first flight tomorrow and we definitely intended to reach it”, shared Lt. Col. Yotam, the first “Adir” Squadron Commander. “We must quickly transition from the exciting atmosphere to operational work in order to stay on schedule”.

During the coming year, the squadron is expected to hold various test and training flights, in order to better grasp how to make the aircraft’s activity more efficient and adapt it to the IAF’s needs and the current arena. Simultaneously, the IAF will continue training additional aircrews for the F-35 and developing the abilities of all “Adir” personnel, on the ground and in the air. “We will first make sure that we are providing the proper safety conditions for the jet’s activity, train ourselves and develop combat doctrines”, shared Lt. Col. Yotam. “We will begin operational activity only after deeply examining the aircraft and making sure that we are ready”."

Source: http://www.iaf.org.il/4451-48791-en/IAF.aspx

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 02:59
by spazsinbad
Air Mobility Command enables delivery of Israel’s first F-35s
12 Dec 2016 1st Lt Erik Anthony, 618th Air Operations Center Public Affairs

"SCOTT AIR FORCE BASE, Ill. -- Air Mobility Command Airmen worked around the clock to ensure Israel’s first two F-35 aircraft were delivered Dec. 12, making the U.S. ally the only country in the Middle East flying a fifth generation fighter aircraft.

The 618th Air Operations Center, based out of Scott AFB, Illinois, assigned the Tennessee Air National Guard’s 134th Air Refueling Wing, New Hampshire ANG’s 157th ARW and Pennsylvania ANG’s 171st ARW the critical mission of providing critical aerial refueling support en route to Israel.

The 618th AOC planned the mission and provided command and control for the KC-135s, while they dispensed the fuel needed to ensure an effective multi-day mission to deliver the two new Israeli F-35s.

“We always need to be at the top of our game,” said Maj. John Hale, aircraft commander for the Tennessee ANG KC-135. “That’s especially the case when enabling the delivery of Israel’s first fifth generation fighters with a 52-year-old aircraft.”

Even with the overall KC-135 fleet exceeding 60 years old, the aircraft and its Airmen continue to provide refueling capabilities to nine combatant commanders worldwide. Every 2.8 minutes there is some type of Air Mobility Command aircraft supporting an operation somewhere on the globe. Mobility forces work with international partners to enhance their defense capability and capacity to conduct missions.

The U.S. and Israel have a military relationship developed through decades of cooperation. The delivery of capable and effective fighter aircraft will bring new capabilities to Israel and deepen the ties between the two countries.

"It is an honor to help ensure the delivery of F-35s to a valued ally,” said Gen. Carlton Everhart, Air Mobility Command commander. “Aerial refueling missions enable global reach for the United States and partner nations. Air Mobility Command Airmen and aircraft enable global effects and create bridges of support for partner nations on a daily basis."

Sharing the same aircraft with partner nations allows the U.S. to fly and fight in the same airframe with common tactics, capabilities, and resources, ensuring an interoperable coalition.

Members from AMC’s 618th AOC work 24 hours a day, 365 days a year to plan, task, assess, and provide command and control for airlift and tanker missions worldwide, making combat operations and partner nation support possible."

" Two Israeli F-35 “Adirs” fly in formation and display the U.S. and Israeli flags after receiving fuel from a Tennessee Air National Guard KC-135, Dec, 6, 2016. The U.S. and Israel have a military relationship built on trust developed through decades of cooperation. (U.S. Air Force photo by 1st Lt. Erik D. Anthony)" PHOTO: https://media.defense.gov/2016/Dec/12/2 ... 11-003.JPG (0.463Mb)


Source: http://www.amc.af.mil/News/Article-Disp ... rst-f-35s/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 03:10
by neptune
zerion wrote:
Israel's first F-35 jets land as Trump blasts costs

In Israel, the first two F-35s landed at Nevatim air base at around 8.15 pm (1845 GMT), around six hours late after being delayed by bad weather in Italy, believed to be fog.

Some 4,000 people had been expected to watch the landings but the crowds thinned as the landing was delayed, leaving only around half the seats full by nightfall.....


..two F-35s have arrived ..
After a slight delay due to heavy fog in Italy, ....
On hand to welcome the aircraft were Primer Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the President of Israel Reuven (Ruvi) Rivlin, the Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman and U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter.
:)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 06:54
by spazsinbad
VIDEO: Opall-Rome talks about F-35i: http://www.defensenews.com/video/the-f- ... priorities

Follow on video F-35 LM VP Jack Crisler interviewed by Opall-Rome: same URL above....

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 08:22
by SpudmanWP
The F-35 and Israel’s Broader Military Priorities




F-35 Delivery Lockheed on Israel


Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 16:27
by geokav
neptune wrote:
zerion wrote:
Israel's first F-35 jets land as Trump blasts costs

In Israel, the first two F-35s landed at Nevatim air base at around 8.15 pm (1845 GMT), around six hours late after being delayed by bad weather in Italy, believed to be fog.

Some 4,000 people had been expected to watch the landings but the crowds thinned as the landing was delayed, leaving only around half the seats full by nightfall.....


..two F-35s have arrived ..
After a slight delay due to heavy fog in Italy, ....
On hand to welcome the aircraft were Primer Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the President of Israel Reuven (Ruvi) Rivlin, the Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman and U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter.
:)


Rumors say, that a HAF Erieye was patrolling south east of Crete, yesterday late afternoon...

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 17:25
by steve2267
geokav wrote:
Rumors say, that a HAF Erieye was patrolling south east of Crete, yesterday late afternoon...


And?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 18:04
by Boman
Israel and Greece have excellent military cooperation, but Greece is certainly interested in finding out how stealthy the F-35 really is compared to their equipment, given that Turkey is to aquire the fighter.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 19:03
by bring_it_on

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 19:06
by bring_it_on
Boman wrote:Israel and Greece have excellent military cooperation, but Greece is certainly interested in finding out how stealthy the F-35 really is compared to their equipment, given that Turkey is to aquire the fighter.


And how will it do that?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 19:52
by steve2267
bring_it_on wrote:

Yeah, but who won the dogfight? :devil:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2016, 20:08
by spazsinbad
Boman wrote:Israel and Greece have excellent military cooperation, but Greece is certainly interested in finding out how stealthy the F-35 really is compared to their equipment, given that Turkey is to aquire the fighter.

Sorry but... these two had Luneberg / Luneburg Lens fitted... therefore not stealthy:
https://media.defense.gov/2016/Dec/12/2 ... 11-003.JPG

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2016, 07:16
by spazsinbad
PICTURES: First two F-35s delivered to Israel
13 Dec 2016 Arie Egozi

"...According to the air force, each of the pilots performed 32 simulator missions while there, but did not actually fly the aircraft. As training continues, US instructors will assist in the first airborne sorties carried out by Israeli personnel."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... el-432373/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2016, 10:32
by hythelday
Even with a set of CFTs (450 gallons) and 300 + 2x370 drop tanks and internal storage, Sufa in that video still has less fuel than F-35A in internal stores with zero drag penalty. While targeting pod can be mounted on dedicated hardpoint on the intake, I am not sure EW pod can, so that leaves exactly one weapon station available (3 AA missiles + AG weapon/ 4 AA missiles). F-35A can match payload now and will exceed it in the near future... all internal, not to mention other things like quality of avionics, stealth and so on. :shock:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2016, 21:32
by bring_it_on
Analysis: Israeli F-35s to become 'big data' gatherers



In a move that reflected the Israeli Air Force's (IAF's) intention to use its newest aircraft to empower its entire fleet, its first two Lockheed Martin F-35A 'Adir' Joint Strike Fighters flew their first training flight alongside F-16I 'Sufa' multirole fighters on 13 December, just a day after they arrived at Nevatim Air Base.

The arrival of the new aircraft made Israel the first country to have F-35s based outside the United States.

The hour-long joint flight with the F-16Is was symbolic of the ongoing initiative to integrate fourth- and fifth-generation aircraft, an effort that began years before the F-35's arrival. The inter-connectivity programme is led by the IAF's Ofek (Horizon) computer programming unit.

Ofek is creating a network that will enable F-35 jets to share the large quantity of data they are expected to gather during flights with the IAF's F-16s and F-15s, thereby improving the older aircraft's situational awareness.

The ability of F-35s to share their data with the rest of the IAF has been a key Israeli focus, and the Israel Defense Forces intend to connect ground forces to the F-35-fed intelligence picture as well.

Speaking in June, IAF Chief Major General Amir Eshel said the F-35 will significantly upgrade intelligence-gathering, as well as the ability to strike very large numbers of targets with guided air-to-surface weapons.

He said that the F-35s will be a key component in the IAF's goal of creating "intelligence 24-7" and said the data they will gather will be sent to ground-based processing centres within seconds of being obtained, where it will be rapidly turned into operational intelligence.

IHS Jane's understands that the IAF will probably begin using the new aircraft soon for advanced intelligence gathering missions.

Officially, the IAF has said that the new platforms will become operational in December 2017.

Lieutenant Colonel Yotam (full name withheld), who commands the IAF's first F-35 squadron, dubbed 'Golden Eagle', outlined the steps that need to be taken to get the aircraft operational to the IAF's official website.

"We will, at first, ensure that we are providing the appropriate safety envelope for the plane's activities. We will train ourselves, and we will develop combat doctrines. Only after the plane receives an in-depth check, and after we feel ready, will we embark on operational activities," he said.

After touching down at Nevatim on 12 December, the IAF's two F-35s were taken to an underground facility where technical personnel began preparing them for the training flight with the assistance of teams from Lockheed Martin and the US Air Force.

Earlier this year, the IAF Chief of Staff Brigadier General Tal Kelman confirmed that Israel will install its own cyber defences on the aircraft.

Israeli ministers from the cabinet's National Security Committee approved on 27 November the acquisition of 17 additional F-35As fighter jets, which will bring the total on order up to 50, sufficient for two squadrons.

The Israeli government is also weighing a request by the IAF to purchase a squadron of the F-35B short take-off and vertical landing variant, which would be useful if runways are damaged by missile attacks.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2016, 21:43
by spazsinbad
Thanks for that 'bring_it_on' and I always like these sentiments for other air forces - to encourage the others to do same.
"...The Israeli government is also weighing a request by the IAF to purchase a squadron of the F-35B short take-off and vertical landing variant, which would be useful if runways are damaged by missile attacks."

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 02:45
by zerion

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 21:25
by spazsinbad
Israel’s First F-35s Delivered to VIP Reception
15 Dec 2016 Chris Pocock

"...The F-35s for Israel are being flown directly to the country for flight training; those for other F-35 partner nations that have already received F-35s remain in the U.S. for this purpose. The first pair for the IAF was ferried by U.S. pilots via Lajes AFB, refueled by U.S. Air Force tankers. However, a cadre of pilots from the first IAF squadron—No 140 “Golden Eagles”—did conduct 32 simulator sorties each at Luke AFB over a four-month period. This allowed two of them to make their first F-35 flights from Nevatim just 16 hours after the new jets arrived. American F-35 instructor pilots have been sent to Nevatim to aid the training. The IAF is planning to conduct 50percent of its F-35 pilot training in simulators, in the U.S. until 2018 and thereafter in a purpose-built facility at Nevatim.

Israel’s “acquisition” of F-35s is effectively a military aid transfer from the U.S., and most of the 50 that the IAF is expected to receive will be paid for from within the new 10-year, $38 billion security assistance pact that Washington agreed with Tel Aviv last September. Lockheed Martin will receive an average of $110 million per aircraft from the U.S. government. The first 19 to arrive will be F-35A models, whereas the second batch of 14 will be delivered to the F-35I standard with Israeli-specific avionic, C4I and other systems. The 19 F-35As will subsequently be modified as F-35Is. The IAF has not yet formally committed to a further 17 aircraft that would form a third squadron. There has been speculation that these could be F-35B STOVL versions, to provided added operational insurance in case of an disabling attack on Israeli air bases.

In another departure from the procedures being established for the main F-35 international partners, the U.S. will allow Israel to perform depth maintenance (eg D-checks) on its F-35s in-country. A new facility is also being added at Nevatim for this purpose, and the airbase is also having new hardened aircraft shelters (HAS) constructed to house the “Adirs.”..."

Source: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... -reception

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Jan 2017, 10:33
by popcorn
http://www.defencetalk.com/israeli-air- ... tie-68832/

Israeli Air Force Flies First F-35 Night Sortie

The pair of “Adir” (F-35I) stealth fighters took off for their first night flight in the IAF this evening, only a month after landing in Israel. “We are performing a night flight very quickly in comparison to other aircraft that were integrated in the IAF”, said Lt. Col. Yotam, Commander of the “Golden Eagle” Squadron that received the “Adir”. “It’s a significant statement that says that to us, there is no difference between a day flight and a night flight”.

“Night flights are not unusual occurrences”, stated Lt. Col. Yotam. “The aircraft’s systems allow for comfortable flight at night, that is almost identical to a day flight. Despite this, like in every mission, we operate slowly and in a supervised manner, while performing in-depth risk management. Tonight, we are examining how the aircraft’s night vision systems fit with the flight familiar to us”...

“The F-35 program is in development”, said IAF Chief of Air Staff, Brig. Gen. Tal Kelman. “As expected from a complex, in-development program of a fighter aircraft, defects are being discovered, similarly to other development programs of different platforms we acquired in the past. The majority of the defects are software defects, and if necessary, corrections and changes are made. The program maintains complete transparency with its customers and is obligated to provide full security in the operation of the aircraft.”

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2017, 02:43
by steve2267
No complaints about the HMDS being too bright? :-D

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Jan 2017, 07:19
by spazsinbad
The brightness issue emanates when looking at dim ship lights in an otherwise 'black hole' no moon no horizon no stars overcast black night at sea. You perhaps need to see it to believe it. :devil: Trust me it is black as the ACE of SPADES.


Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Jan 2017, 04:23
by spazsinbad
2 page PDF of the entire article is attached below....
Mighty vision for Israel’s new Adir
24-30 Jan 2017 ARIE EGOZI

"...Israeli air force (IAF) commander Maj Gen Amir Eshel summed up the significance of the event: “The Adir is about to become a powerful accelerator for the entire IAF. We plan on leveraging our systemic abilities to new heights in attack and defence.

“Our aerial force will be much deadlier, combined and more relevant than ever.”

Israel has big plans for the jets, including some “customisation” to meet its specific requirements. But those responsible for making the F-35 the “accelerator” that Eshel expects must rue the day, back in 2010, that Israel turned down the chance – it is thought for financial reasons – to become a full partner in the programme. At that time Israel passed up the opportunity to put its mark on the F-35’s design, but that is turning out to be the least of its problems.

FALLING BEHIND
At that time, Israeli industry sources described the non-partnership status as anything from a “big problem” to a “disaster”. They were not talking about the money they would lose by not being able to put, for example, some “super advanced” missiles on the stealth fighter. Rather, their concern was, and remains, that if Israel were not a full member of the programme, its ability to develop top-of- the-line systems would remain at least one technological generation behind.

...While Israel may not enjoy the benefits of full programme partnership, it is making every possible effort to leverage the massive purchase of the aircraft for the development of new systems. One example is a command, control, communications and computing system developed for the Adir by IAI.

IAI says the system will enable the air force to better manage, and rapidly field, networked applications that interface with core services over proprietary protocols developed especially for it. Using generic communications infrastructure based on the latest software-defined radios, IAI’s new system will provide the backbone of Israel’s future airborne communications network.

IAI claims this network will be a dramatic improvement over legacy systems now operating with its fleet of earlier-generation F-15s and F-16s.

NETWORKED WARFARE
The new open-architecture system promises rapid software and hardware development cycles that will also provide more affordable modernisation and support of systems over the platform’s life cycle. And, IAI says, it also paves the way for additional advanced capabilities to be embedded in the F-35I.

“This cutting-edge avionic system represents an ‘operational quantum leap’ in the capability of air power to conduct networked-centric air warfare,” Cohen says. “It is part of a major change that takes place once in a decade, which includes the upgrading of fourth generation systems. This programme will be critical to our national security, as it represents a shift in air force concepts of operations and operational capabilities.”

The system has been designed based on the vast operational experience of the air force in a large range of combat missions. The service wants its F-35 test aircraft delivered as early as possible, to begin adapting Israeli weapon systems to the platform.

The F-35I contract for Israel includes one test aircraft that will be operated by the air force’s flight test centre. According to Lt Col Ori, the chief flight test engineer at the centre, the test asset will have an operational capability. But its main mission will be to enable the development of Israeli systems that will enhance the F-35’s capabilities.

“We will have to test Israeli-made weapons systems, so that they can be carried in the weapons bay of the aircraft and test it under different situations,” Ori says.

Immediately after the first F-35 contract was signed with the US, the Israeli defence ministry and the air force approved the development of special versions of Israeli weapon systems for the aircraft. For example, Rafael is working on adapting its Python 5 and Derby air-to-air missiles. The company’s Litening 5 targeting pod is also in the adaptation process.

The delivery of the first two F-35s to Israel is the beginning of a “crawling” process that will adapt the stealth fighter to the nation’s unique operational requirements. The USA may not be entirely happy to allow Israel to penetrate some core systems of the aircraft, but judging from the past experience with types like the F-15 and F-16, the local effort should bring some additional capabilities to the Adir."

Source: 24-30 January 2017 | Flight International

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Jan 2017, 18:40
by spazsinbad
Entire article above in PDF (I guess) is now available here:

ANALYSIS: Israel wings it on F-35 23 Jan 2017 Arie Egozi

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 35-433077/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 16:14
by fang
January 25th, 2017 Adir #3 (903) made FF, February 5th, 2017 Adir #4 (904) made FF
They are part of LRIP-9 group and schedule to arrive Israel in early April 2017 together with Adir #5 (905) and Adir #6 (906)
Images of 903 & 904 FF (credit on the pic)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Feb 2017, 18:04
by mrbuno
fang wrote:January 25th, 2017 Adir #3 (903) made FF, February 5th, 2017 Adir #4 (904) made FF
They are part of LRIP-9 group and schedule to arrive Israel in early April 2017 together with Adir #5 (905) and Adir #6 (906)
Images of 903 & 904 FF (credit on the pic)


903 was already seen flying on January 16th and 904 on February 1st:

903: https://www.flickr.com/photos/36600796@N04/31513405964/

904: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mjd312/31814487324/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 06:46
by fang
mrbuno you are so right, thanks for correcting.
As a reward enjoy the IAF pic of 901&902 kissing in Nevatim AFB

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Feb 2017, 08:03
by neptune
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/isr ... -1-billion

Israeli F-35 buy-back surpasses $1 billion

By: Barbara Opall-Rome
February 12, 2017

TEL AVIV – Israel’s Defense Ministry announced Sunday that completed industrial cooperation or buy-back contracts with Lockheed Martin on the F-35 program surpassed the $1 billion benchmark since Israel signed its first contract in 2010 for an initial 19 fighters. According to Avi Dadon, MoD’s deputy director of purchasing, Israeli firms entered into $258 million worth of new contracts during 2016, a 33 percent surge from the previous year. “The scope of industrial cooperation between [Lockheed Martin] and Israeli industries, just in the past year, illustrates the big, raw potential of this deal to the Israeli economy,” Dadon said.

Key Israeli suppliers to Lockheed Martin for the year that just closed include Elbit Systems, which together with Rockwell Collins expanded their production contract for sensor-fuzed helmets by $206 million; and Israel Aerospace Industries, which received a $26 million follow-on contract for wing sets. Two other Elbit subsidiaries – Cyclone and Tadiran – also scored orders exceeding $20 million last year for structural components and radio amplifiers respectively.

Dadon noted that several Lockheed Martin contracts were extended to small firms in northern Israel to support industries near the “line of confrontation” along the border with Lebanon. He said the Ministry aimed to work in the coming year “to further deepen” industrial cooperation associated with Israel’s F-35 program. Israel is now negotiating its third contract for another 17 F-35A fighters, which will bring the Israel Air Force’s inventory to 50.

In an interview late last year, Jack Crisler, Lockheed Martin’s vice president for F-35 business development, said Israeli technology was benefiting not only those planes destined for the Israel Air Force, but in many cases, all partner and customer nations of the fifth-generation fighter.

:)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Feb 2017, 21:12
by fang
The Israeli Air Force grounded one of the F-35 pilots after he published in a local magazine an article about his flight impressions in The Adir (F-35i) without a proper authorisation.
No classified information revealed since the article been approved by the military censor but not by the IAF spokesperson unit (The IAF public affairs officer).
The pilot (Major E) is well valued by the IAF after serving over 20 years as F-16 pilot in many roles, he says that his intention was innocent but some how he missed the regulations.
Most of the people think this punish (1 year grounding) is too heavy.

A brief of the article (in Hebrew)
http://www.yediot.co.il/articles/0,7340 ... 42,00.html

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Feb 2017, 21:24
by SpudmanWP
Google Translate:

I first sit in the cockpit and the first thing I notice that it's beyond the standard throttle gum, as I have known each other aircraft, there's no buttons or watches. As befits the plane of the iPhone generation, all the engineers left this one big touch screen, 16 inches.

As smartphone is now also an encyclopedia and a camera and a phone, then on F-35 screen is also a fuel gauge and radar and missile system. All presented a pilot application and convenient, intuitive and requires some learning. If something is displayed on the screen in red - this is very bad; if it's green - everything is fine; yellow - understanding alone. this way the pilot process facilitates the flow of information in real time, and in the case of Adir "I realize very quickly that this is not allowed. F-35 one knows gather more information four legacy jets together, and without a clear view and comfortable cockpit would get lost in the tsunami of information thrown at him.

F-35 is a single-seat. This plane is so sophisticated and easy to operate, with simulators so accurate, not only did he single-seat - not even two-seater built one for training. She even first solo flight.

Instead navigate or guide there's a robot. Remember the famous scene in Star Wars: A New Hope "as the battles of Luke Skywalker compromised and R2D2 out a screwdriver and fixes the wiring during the flight? The robot here called ICP and runs alongside the pilot from turning the key to that return the aircraft to the parking lot. No, actually the plane. There Kuden with 16 digits, it's like remember your credit card number. ICP actually found the whole operation and the pilot wants to make the plane. And some of them simply will not perform, for example, if it is too busy or did not liked them. Operations that may cause the aircraft to lose control and crash entering this niche of not pleasing.

Because of this, ICP detects a fault When he did not drop it as your default. At first he treats himself, and notify you if further action is needed. If the computer revealed radar target, it will show you that just as it is important enough and close, so do not waste valuable time even you.

By now I was used to having one radar screen, both the map and your location, and the third warning about the missiles. You would need to cross-reference all three function in all discarded information you need from three directions while you are driving a car moved at 900 mph and under rocket attack at 3000 mph or more. As a young pilot, you usually course information overload and freezes on the controls.

In F-35 does not have to build and maintain the image at the top of the battle. Do not even have to press a button. More than that, I do not even know where the information came from. He could have reached the missile warning system, radar or radar ever got another aircraft structure and automatically transferred. All that remains to do is pilot to decide what to do with the information. Is it a missile launch, throw the bomb or it may just turn around and go home. So when it comes to calculating ability and willingness to make decisions - even before we started to try to shoot down other aircraft - pilot of the F-35 has been in the lead.

Let's talk a minute about stealth. Stealth fighter made of special materials and designed in a way that passes the less reimbursement radars, so they see it only in a much shorter relative to the plane normal. This is a very significant advantage on the battlefield because until today - and in the visible range of years - it is very difficult to locate and harm plane without radar detection. There are other means to bring down airplanes, such as guns or heat seeking missiles, but they have a very close very purpose, which is difficult to achieve without it rises on the radar. The bottom line is, when you take off the job at F-35 , you see the enemy from a great distance and can harm them while they are very close to you will need to see you and hurt you. you will have all the tools to overthrow them before they enter the range that might jeopardize you.

Difficult to explain the change that this brings to the battlefield and how much it significantly. It's a bit like playing with cheats, or be a superhero. In F-16 was spitting blood to win - a training flight or simulator, and together with another plane - a pair of planes that simulate enemy. Many times I was on the kidnaps. Outstanding "pair against pair it just is not training. Magic of the aircraft make it child's play. Please bring six enemy planes, otherwise it does not Forces.

F-35 is not the world's best fighter plane in each category, but he is not the first time is probably second. F-15 could perhaps carry a bit more bombs, F-16, maybe a little smaller and agile. But war is not sterile world of individual ability. How exactly could the F-15 missile batteries to penetrate the enemy with modern radar sees him hundreds of miles away? What will help with F-16 its excellent maneuverability, if an enemy plane would knock him long before he knows we have to maneuver? As a whole war, Outstanding "brings capabilities that no other aircraft. and the area that is constant arms race and war tradition of summer, it's definitely an advantage that makes you feel good. At least for a moment

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Feb 2017, 00:40
by spazsinbad
Yeah but no but yeah but - can he fly in the FMS? "...Most of the people think this punish (1 year grounding) is too heavy."

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Mar 2017, 06:52
by spazsinbad
305Kb 4 page PDF of entire article: http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... sraeli.pdf (300Kb)
OR
http://www.jsf.mil/news/docs/20170301_T ... _F-35s.pdf (187Kb)
The Israeli F-35s
April 2017 Gideon Grudo

"...some observers say Israel is the only country whose variant is unique. According to Lockheed Martin spokesperson Eric Schnaible, the company modified the F-35 for Israel in three main areas: command, control, communications, computers, and intelligence (C4I), electronic warfare, and weapons integration.

Initially, the US refused to allow Israeli modifications to the F-35. The compromise reached involved not changing anything inside the aircraft, but allowing the Israelis to add capabilities on top of the existing infrastructure.

State-run Israel Aerospace Industries, for example, is working on a C4I overlay for the F-35, with Lockheed Martin. “It’s open architecture, which sits on the F-35’s central system, much like an application on your iPhone,” Benni Cohen, general manager of IAI’s Lahav Division, told Defense News last year.

“The F-35 Adir aircraft has also been provisioned to allow updates to EW and weapons interfaces,” Schnaible said. “The design of aircraft installations, power, and cooling have been modified to provide IAF the ability to incorporate indigenous weapons.”

The types of weapons Israel will be adding to the F-35 are either classified or not yet known, and Moti wouldn’t confirm either.

“It’s like a view to the future. We know we want to fly with Israeli weapons in this aircraft,” he said. “Because it’s so complex, we started working today on understanding how we can integrate future weapons.” The same goes for communications, the challenge being figuring out a way for the F-35 to communicate with the F-15s and F-16s it’s going to fly alongside.

“We need to have Israeli communications,” Moti said. “The aircraft are supposed to speak in the same protocols.” As the F-35 is akin to “a flying computer,” Moti explained, “if you’re not speaking the same language as this computer, you cannot do anything.”... [well I say, I say son (do your best Foghorn Leghorn impression here "This is gonna cause more confusion than a mouse at a burlesque show." http://www.barbneal.com/wp-content/uploads/fogleg16.mp3 (59Kb))

...Reinventing the Air Force
The introduction of a unique aircraft like the F-35 will affect the nature of communication and war planning within the IDF.

“Now we are going to have a mixed fleet,” said retired IAF Brig. Gen. Ephraim Segoli. He served in IAF for 25 years and in 1997 studied as a fellow at the School of Advanced Air and Space Studies, Maxwell AFB, Ala. In Israel, he eventually joined the Fisher Institute for Air and Space Strategic Studies, where he heads the Airpower and Asymmetric Conflict Research Center.

“The F-35 is bringing a new culture. It is a big challenge. Not just a technical challenge, like how we talk,” but also how airmen and other branches of the military will use information, in what order, and with what aims. Like everything else with the F-35, “time and experience” will reveal the potential advantages and limitations of the aircraft, he said....

...The amount of information the F-35 is designed to gather and disseminate to the rest of IAF and IDF may also change the way IAF operates within the IDF. “In my opinion, the air force has a very unique part in any campaign planning,” said Segoli.

“It was not done and it is not done,” he told Air Force Magazine in a January interview, referring to IAF’s role in holistically advising on military campaigns. “The air force must understand [the F-35] is not just there to improve one, two, or three capabilities.”

While the F-35 can allow IAF to penetrate threats now being developed, Segoli emphasized he sees no current threats the F-35 is capable of attacking alone. Rather, he emphasized the role of the aircraft in deterring those rising threats. If Iran is considering rolling out nuclear capabilities, the F-35’s ability to fly past the country’s surface-to-air defense system may affect such plans....

...It may be years before the F-35 program settles into enough of a routine for today’s questions about unit costs and planned inventories to be resolved. But whatever quantities and capabilities the F-35 ends up offering later, within the IAF there is considerable agreement that it’ll be “adir.”"

Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... F-35s.aspx

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 11:24
by fang
Feb 24, 2017 Texas: IAF's Adir (F-35i) #905 made first flight, next to fly is #906 during the coming two weeks
All the 4 planes (903-906) schedule to arrive Israel next month

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Mar 2017, 14:09
by mixelflick
SpudmanWP wrote:Google Translate:

I first sit in the cockpit and the first thing I notice that it's beyond the standard throttle gum, as I have known each other aircraft, there's no buttons or watches. As befits the plane of the iPhone generation, all the engineers left this one big touch screen, 16 inches.

As smartphone is now also an encyclopedia and a camera and a phone, then on F-35 screen is also a fuel gauge and radar and missile system. All presented a pilot application and convenient, intuitive and requires some learning. If something is displayed on the screen in red - this is very bad; if it's green - everything is fine; yellow - understanding alone. this way the pilot process facilitates the flow of information in real time, and in the case of Adir "I realize very quickly that this is not allowed. F-35 one knows gather more information four legacy jets together, and without a clear view and comfortable cockpit would get lost in the tsunami of information thrown at him.

F-35 is a single-seat. This plane is so sophisticated and easy to operate, with simulators so accurate, not only did he single-seat - not even two-seater built one for training. She even first solo flight.

Instead navigate or guide there's a robot. Remember the famous scene in Star Wars: A New Hope "as the battles of Luke Skywalker compromised and R2D2 out a screwdriver and fixes the wiring during the flight? The robot here called ICP and runs alongside the pilot from turning the key to that return the aircraft to the parking lot. No, actually the plane. There Kuden with 16 digits, it's like remember your credit card number. ICP actually found the whole operation and the pilot wants to make the plane. And some of them simply will not perform, for example, if it is too busy or did not liked them. Operations that may cause the aircraft to lose control and crash entering this niche of not pleasing.

Because of this, ICP detects a fault When he did not drop it as your default. At first he treats himself, and notify you if further action is needed. If the computer revealed radar target, it will show you that just as it is important enough and close, so do not waste valuable time even you.

By now I was used to having one radar screen, both the map and your location, and the third warning about the missiles. You would need to cross-reference all three function in all discarded information you need from three directions while you are driving a car moved at 900 mph and under rocket attack at 3000 mph or more. As a young pilot, you usually course information overload and freezes on the controls.

In F-35 does not have to build and maintain the image at the top of the battle. Do not even have to press a button. More than that, I do not even know where the information came from. He could have reached the missile warning system, radar or radar ever got another aircraft structure and automatically transferred. All that remains to do is pilot to decide what to do with the information. Is it a missile launch, throw the bomb or it may just turn around and go home. So when it comes to calculating ability and willingness to make decisions - even before we started to try to shoot down other aircraft - pilot of the F-35 has been in the lead.

Let's talk a minute about stealth. Stealth fighter made of special materials and designed in a way that passes the less reimbursement radars, so they see it only in a much shorter relative to the plane normal. This is a very significant advantage on the battlefield because until today - and in the visible range of years - it is very difficult to locate and harm plane without radar detection. There are other means to bring down airplanes, such as guns or heat seeking missiles, but they have a very close very purpose, which is difficult to achieve without it rises on the radar. The bottom line is, when you take off the job at F-35 , you see the enemy from a great distance and can harm them while they are very close to you will need to see you and hurt you. you will have all the tools to overthrow them before they enter the range that might jeopardize you.

Difficult to explain the change that this brings to the battlefield and how much it significantly. It's a bit like playing with cheats, or be a superhero. In F-16 was spitting blood to win - a training flight or simulator, and together with another plane - a pair of planes that simulate enemy. Many times I was on the kidnaps. Outstanding "pair against pair it just is not training. Magic of the aircraft make it child's play. Please bring six enemy planes, otherwise it does not Forces.

F-35 is not the world's best fighter plane in each category, but he is not the first time is probably second. F-15 could perhaps carry a bit more bombs, F-16, maybe a little smaller and agile. But war is not sterile world of individual ability. How exactly could the F-15 missile batteries to penetrate the enemy with modern radar sees him hundreds of miles away? What will help with F-16 its excellent maneuverability, if an enemy plane would knock him long before he knows we have to maneuver? As a whole war, Outstanding "brings capabilities that no other aircraft. and the area that is constant arms race and war tradition of summer, it's definitely an advantage that makes you feel good. At least for a moment


Ground him for a year? For this??

They should promote him, given I'm now more confused about Israel's F-35's than I was before reading it...

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 06:51
by fang
mixelflick wrote:Ground him for a year? For this??
They should promote him, given I'm now more confused about Israel's F-35's than I was before reading it...

It's not the air force, It's a direct order from the IDF chief of staff, he is freak about the media and takes extreme measures against who violate the regulations.
I'm with you, this pilot got great flying skills but he is also a good writer, instead of ban him they should make him write about it regulary in a special column within the regulations.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Mar 2017, 10:22
by spazsinbad
Jeepers - how did we miss this GEM of a post?! I should check & check again because I'm laffing too much... FUD supreme.
Unanswered Questions About the F-35’s Six-Day Flight to Israel [TOLDYA this is an excellent clickbaiter - FUD]
16 Dec 2016 Giovanni de Briganti

"After a six-day ferry flight from the United States – as long as it took Israel to win the 1967 war [GOD supposedly made creation in SIX DAYS - get over it Giovanni] -- the first two Lockheed F-35Is for the Israeli Air Force finally arrived at Nevatim air base, in southern Israel, six hours late. Many contradictory explanations have been provided for this delay.... [contradictory in that no one wants to tell you nuttin' - you obviously won't understand so why bother]

...Looking into why a routine delivery flight took so long, we ran into a wall of obfuscation, contradictory explanations, deflections and unanswered questions that, given the F-35 enterprise’s past record, suggested that something was being hidden.

While no evidence of any failure has emerged, we have found no plausible explanation of why the F-3 [this is that stupid alien show all over again - no explanation so I'll invent one] -- often billed as the world’s most advanced fighter -- took six days to fly from Texas to Israel, nor why, despite its much-vaunted “5th-generation” avionics, it was unable to take off on the final leg of its flight because of fog – fog which did not affect scheduled and[sic] air traffic at a nearby civil airport.... [GIOVANNI these are expensive jets when safety in SDD phase is an ongoing concern - deal with it]

...on Dec 16 by another Lockheed spokesman, Eric W. Schnaible, who said the jets arrived at Lajes on Dec. 6 and at Cameri on Dec. 8, where they remained until taking off for Israel on Dec. 12.

But their takeoff, originally scheduled for 07:00, was delayed for six hours because of heavy fog which, however, did not affect commercial flights at Milan Malpensa international airport, 8.5 km away, as shown by this screen grab:... [GIOVANNI has not been a pilot we can guess - he knows they are super human and the weather is the same all over - even in fog at departure and enroute what was weather and at arrival point?]

...Lockheed’s Schnaible also belatedly provided additional information about the flight that was previously unavailable. He said:
“The US Military Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA) F-35 ferry pilots planned, coordinated USAF tanker support for trans-Atlantic Ocean aerial refuelings and accomplished the delivery in three legs to meet the IAF's request for a 12 Dec 1400 arrival.

“1st leg had 5 refuels for each jet. Flight time was 7.2 hours from Fort Worth to Lajes; 2nd leg had 3 refuels with flight time of 4.5 hours Azores to Cameri AB, Italy on 8 Dec. 3rd leg was planned for 12 Dec.”


...[Then there are a bunch of mostly idiotic questions so go there to find out if GIOVANNI is an idiot - I like the way Schnaible answers questions] Asked to comment, Lockheed’s Schnaible said he did not know why Cameri was preferred, “but the FACO may have been a better F-35 support facility if needed.” The FACO is the F-35 Final Assembly and Check-Out facility also located on Cameri air base.

Regarding the delivery’s six-day duration, Schnaible said “the flights were planned to support [Israel’s timing] request. To ensure safety of flight, aircrew rest rules are followed between flight legs so the pilots are fully refreshed for their flights.”

Lockheed’s Schnaible said that “There were no technical delays, and I am told the jets arrived Code One, meaning no discrepancies.” He referred further questions about the Cameri layover to the Italian air force whose press office, as stated above, declined to comment....

[Then there is a long ramble about 'why was there a delay in the foggy departure' - it is hilarious]

...Yet more questions about F-35 operations that will remain unanswered." [I CANNOT NOT WAIT! - I'm outta here]

Source: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... srael.html

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Mar 2017, 16:15
by steve2267
spazsinbad wrote:
Unanswered Questions About the F-35’s Six-Day Flight to Israel [TOLDYA this is an excellent clickbaiter - FUD]
16 Dec 2016 Giovanni de Briganti
...Lockheed’s Schnaible also belatedly provided additional information about the flight that was previously unavailable. He said:
“The US Military Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA) F-35 ferry pilots planned, coordinated USAF tanker support for trans-Atlantic Ocean aerial refuelings and accomplished the delivery in three legs to meet the IAF's request for a 12 Dec 1400 arrival.

“1st leg had 5 refuels for each jet. Flight time was 7.2 hours from Fort Worth to Lajes; 2nd leg had 3 refuels with flight time of 4.5 hours Azores to Cameri AB, Italy on 8 Dec. 3rd leg was planned for 12 Dec.”


Source: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... srael.html


That guy's a piece of work for sure. Who knows about the fog. Maybe their tankers were flying with them, and they could not depart in the fog? So the F-35's were grounded because their escort was grounded. F-35's can't fly un-escorted, dontchaknow. :roll:

The refueling comments by Schnaible intrigue me though. Sounds like they tanked over the east coast of the US, then roughly every 600nm after that, as they still had Halifax Intl (Nova Scotia) and St Johns (Newfoundland) as divert options. Once past St Johns they had the Azores made (gas wise). The second leg from the Azores probably had one, maybe two IFRs, before they made the coast of Portugal or Spain, and then two (or one) more fillups to get them all the way to Cameri AB.

2016_IAF_F-35A_Texas-Azores.jpg

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Mar 2017, 18:50
by blindpilot
spazsinbad wrote:Jeepers - how did we miss this GEM of a post?! I should check & check again because I'm laffing too much... FUD supreme.
Unanswered Questions About the F-35’s Six-Day Flight to Israel [TOLDYA this is an excellent clickbaiter - FUD]
16 Dec 2016 Giovanni de Briganti
"After a six-day ferry flight from the United States –...
While no evidence of any failure has emerged, we have found no plausible explanation ...
[Then there is a long ramble about 'why was there a delay in the foggy departure' - it is hilarious]
...Yet more questions about F-35 operations that will remain unanswered." [I CANNOT [b]NOT
WAIT! - I'm outta here]
Source: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... srael.html


<SARC ON> This Just In!!! I asked the janitor at Cameri AFB whether they had rats or mice at the hangar. He refused to answer but looked at me with a strange look as if he was hiding something. We CAN ONLY WONDER whether in fact there are not rats in the weapons bay of one or both of the Israeli F-35s, and probably every F-35 assembled there, that have eaten the wiring going to some control surface, endangering the children who are swimming on the beaches of California, which have also been known to have rats! You can count on me to keep at this story until Lockheed provides an answer! <SARC OFF>

Ain't it the truth!,
BP

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Mar 2017, 20:13
by spazsinbad
How will this story be spun by others above - gold into straw - a specialty of RumpleSweetmanSkin (graphic on request)...
Israel continues talks over additional F-15s
17 Mar 2017 Arie Egozi

"...In November 2016, the Israeli government approved the purchase of another 17 F-35Is, bringing to 50 the number of “Adir” strike aircraft planned for its air force.

The service has been evaluating a purchase of more F-15Is to maintain its desired mix of strike aircraft with the F-35 to satisfy future operational needs. Its initial requirement was identified as for 75 F-35s, but the need to replace the oldest examples of its Boeing-built fighter has become a high priority issue. Israel has operated the twin-engined type since 1976.

It has been decided that an evaluation of an advanced version of the F-15 should be completed before any additional F-35s are purchased. Israeli sources say ongoing talks with the US Department of Defense are related to a potentially 20- to 25-aircraft deal....

...Meanwhile, the Israeli air force in early March opened a dedicated maintenance training centre for the F-35I at Nevatim air base. The first such facility to be established outside the USA, this will support personnel training related to 25 different technical professions, the air force says. Israel requires line- and depot-level maintenance for the new type to be performed in-country, with only subsystems to be sent for support and repair overseas. Its air force took delivery of its first pair of Adirs last December."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 5s-435303/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2017, 11:44
by fang
How will this story be spun others above - gold into straw - a specialty of RumpleSweetmanSkin (graphic on request)...

The IAF want eventually 75 F-35's (most of them A and probably few B) and 50 advanced F-15i (upgrading the existing and acquire another 25)
The upgrade process will include a new systems from the F-15SA such as AESA radar and local new systems.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2017, 20:41
by SpudmanWP
I think that their biggest impetus for updated F-35s is to have the US pay for it.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 17:02
by mixelflick
Here's where I'm confused..

They want 75 F-35's, and more "advanced" F-15's. I'm guessing the F-35 is going to be their primary strike bird. Reasons being the obvious (stealth) but also has the legs and sensors. The "advanced" F-15's I've seen flying look to be Super Strike Eagles, ala Saudi Arabia's F-15SA's. So... two strike birds? Doesn't make sense to me, doubly so given their F-16's are strikers too.

So perhaps they'll use these "advanced" F-15's in that 16 AAM loadout, for homeland defense and beating back airstrikes?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 17:34
by quicksilver
Different 'factions' (whether they be part of a government or industry) often plant stories that support one position or another wrt future acquisitions.

As the acting SECAF and CSAF have said in recent days, new 4th gen anything are increasingly unattractive alternatives because it is clear that 4th gen capabilities are not competitive and the price point for F-35 is coming down. An F-15 is a large expensive aircraft.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 22:29
by SpudmanWP
F-35Is can "kick the door down" for the follow-on F-15Is and also provide better SA for the entire package.

The F-15I can also carry 5k bunker busters.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 23:05
by quicksilver
Why would a country pay more for the follow-on bomb truck than it would for the 'boot at the door,' particularly when they could turn the 'boot at the door' into a bomb truck with the addition of a couple pylons?

What's an FMS Eagle...120M?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 07:54
by Corsair1963
New F-15I's would cost more than the F-35's. So, what would be the point??? My guess is Israel is really taking about upgrading a number of her newer F-15I's already in service to a New Standard. (2040C?)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 07:56
by Corsair1963
Also, many seem to think the F-15I can carry a much larger external weapons load than the F-35A. Which, is not to the case at all....

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 11:51
by hornetfinn
Corsair1963 wrote:Also, many seem to think the F-15I can carry a much larger external weapons load than the F-35A. Which, is not to the case at all....


I've seen this countless times. I think it's because F-35 is said to replace F-16, F/A-18 and AV-8B, all of which have significantly smaller weapons load compared to F-15E variants. People don't seem to grasp the fact that F-35A and C are very close to F-15E in both payload and range.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 12:03
by botsing
SpudmanWP wrote:The F-15I can also carry 5k bunker busters.

Is there any plan/ability for the F-35 to also carry the 5k bunker buster? If not then we might have an answer.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 13:37
by hythelday
botsing wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:The F-15I can also carry 5k bunker busters.

Is there any plan/ability for the F-35 to also carry the 5k bunker buster? If not then we might have an answer.


Staition 3 & 9 are rated for 5000 pounds?

Might have more to do with sustaining capability now while Adirs are still few.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2017, 15:38
by Dragon029
Yep:

Image

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2017, 01:42
by SpudmanWP
Given that Israel has stated the desire to design & build large EFTs for the F-35s, they would take the same 5/9 station that a 5k bomb would so they could no be used together.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2017, 02:07
by popcorn
botsing wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:The F-15I can also carry 5k bunker busters.

Is there any plan/ability for the F-35 to also carry the 5k bunker buster? If not then we might have an answer.

The future is HVPW.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Mar 2017, 04:47
by Corsair1963
hornetfinn wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Also, many seem to think the F-15I can carry a much larger external weapons load than the F-35A. Which, is not to the case at all....


I've seen this countless times. I think it's because F-35 is said to replace F-16, F/A-18 and AV-8B, all of which have significantly smaller weapons load compared to F-15E variants. People don't seem to grasp the fact that F-35A and C are very close to F-15E in both payload and range.



Likely, better because the Strike Eagle usually has to carry both CFT's and External Fuel Tanks. Which, quickly get's it up to the gross weight of the aircraft. Leaving not much room for Weapons.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2017, 23:20
by zerion
Israel to get 3 more F-35 jets on Sunday

Jerusalem, Undefined | AFP | Israel is to take delivery of three more F-35 stealth fighters from the United States on Sunday, adding to two which arrived in December, an army statement said.

They are among 50 that Israel has agreed to buy from aerospace giant Lockheed Martin...

https://www.independent.co.ug/israel-ge ... ts-sunday/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2017, 21:17
by fang
IDF on youtube - the F-35i's during air refueling training in Texas


The IDF published this pic of the three F-35i's over the Atlantic ocean on the way to Israel
Note they carry US marking, Arrival to Nevatim AFB gonna be tomorrow afternoon

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2017, 19:28
by neptune
http://www.timesofisrael.com/three-more ... in-israel/

Three more F-35 fighter jets touch down in Israel

By Judah Ari Gross and AFP
April 23, 2017, 8:08 pm 2

Sunday’s acquisition brings total number of ‘Adir’ stealth aircraft up to five, out of 50 ordered by IAF. Three F-35 stealth fighter jets touched down at the Nevatim Air Force base in southern Israel on Sunday, joining the two that arrived late last year. In total, Israel has agreed to purchase 50 of the fifth generation stealth aircraft, known in Israel as the “Adir,” or “mighty one.” Israel is the first country outside the United States to receive the state-of-the-art fighter jet, which is manufactured by Lockheed Martin. The jets are flown by American pilots to Israel. Upon landing, they officially become the property of the Israeli government. The state-of-the-art F-35 is poised to become a central pillar of Israel’s air strategy, a senior air force official told reporters last November. The stealth fighter is considered one of the most advanced aircraft in the world, capable of taking on most missile defense batteries, including the Russian S-300, which was recently acquired by Iran, and which has been used in Syria, where Israeli planes reportedly fly sorties. The first of these landed in Israel last December. There were no high-ranking officials to greet the incoming fighter jets on Sunday, unlike when the first two F-35s landed. That reception ceremony was presided over by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, President Reuven Rivlin, Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman and then-US secretary of defense Ashton Carter.

Over the coming years, the remaining 45 planes will make their way to Israel — a handful every few months. According to IAF officials, it will take months — but likely less than a year — before the aircraft is declared combat operational, as the pilots and maintenance teams put the jet through its paces. Israeli components will be integrated in the aircraft, which will be known as the F-35I. Among its main features are advanced stealth capabilities to help pilots evade sophisticated missile systems. The single-pilot jets can carry an array of weapons and travel at a supersonic speed of Mach 1.6, or around 1,900 kilometers per hour (1,200 miles per hour). A pilot’s ultra-high-tech helmet, at a cost of some $400,000 each, includes its own operating system, with data that appears on the visor and is also shared elsewhere. Thermal and night vision as well as 360-degree views are possible with cameras mounted on the plane. Once servicing and maintenance costs are factored in over the aircraft’s lifespan through 2070, overall program costs are expected to soar to $1.5 trillion. Israel is buying its first 33 F-35s at an average price of about $110 million (NIS 400 million) each, though the rest are expected to be slightly cheaper. US President Donald Trump has publicly has upbraided Lockheed over “out of control” costs of the plane. It is the most expensive weapons program in history. The company has said it will bring down the price in the future, as its production costs are expected to go down.

https://youtu.be/HmhFfK76XXw

Mazel tov!

:)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2017, 21:55
by spazsinbad
Israel launches missile attacks on Syria
23 Apr 2017 Big News Network.com

"TEL AVIV, Israel - Syria has been rocked by a surprise missile attack by the Israel Air Force on Syrian army posts on Sunday. The bombing of the army posts follows a similar attack on Friday night, which Syrian government forces say caused considerable material damage....

...Sunday's bombing was believed to have been carried out by one of the two newly arrived U.S. F-35 stealth fighter planes which were provided to Israel by the United States last year. Coincidently, 3 more F-35 planes arrived in Israel on Sunday, boosting the number of F-35s in the Israel Air Force to five. Another 45 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters are on order for the Jewish State which last year secured under the Obama administration a 10 year program of annual grants for U.S. military assistance of $3.8 billion a year. Each of the F-35s is produced at a cost of $90 million making the total order worth $4.5 billion."

Source: http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/2529 ... s-on-syria

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 02:05
by neptune
http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArch ... F-35s.aspx

The Israeli F-35s

April 2017
By Gideon Grudo

With stealth and electronic capabilities far surpassing Israel’s other aircraft, the F-35 will introduce massive advances for the IAF.

In December, Israel took delivery, through the foreign military sales program, of its first two of a planned 50 F-35s. It was nearly 14 years after the Middle Eastern democracy first got involved in the fifth generation fighter program. What exactly this advanced aircraft is going to do for the Israeli Air Force (IAF) is, well, open to speculation. Some things are obvious. The F-35 will be expected to secure Israeli airspace and accurately attack ground targets, for example. But according to defense experts and the IAF officer in charge of the F-35 program, the fighter’s capability and capacity are so new and untested in the region (or elsewhere, really) that time will show exactly what else the F-35 is able to offer. IAF is certain the F-35’s impact will be mighty. So much so, in fact, that the Israelis named the F-35I (for Israel) Adir. It translates as “mighty” from Hebrew and is derived from the biblical book of Psalms. Accordingly, when the first two aircraft landed Dec. 12, 2016, at Nevatim Air Base, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proclaimed, “Our long arm has now become longer and mightier.” In a January interview with Air Force Magazine, IAF Major Moti (the Israeli Air Force does not typically release the last names of its airmen), the air force’s program officer for the F-35, explained the service’s mood regarding the F-35: “There’s a lot of excitement.” While the IAF flies an arsenal of advanced fourth gen F-15s and F-16s, “this is the first fighter [that will offer Israel] stealth capability,” Moti said, and F-15s and F-16s simply don’t have the type of sensors the F-35s have. Compared to legacy fighters, F-35s will be able to safely enter threat arenas guarded by more advanced defenses and weapons. Moti said, “We need the advantage,” a reasonable necessity considering dangers such as those lurking to Israel’s north and east, including Hezbollah and Russian-armed Syria and Iran. There are 12 national customers of the F-35. Nine original partner nations had a role in setting up the specifications and procurement policies: Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey, the UK, and the US. The three foreign military sales partners so far are Israel, Japan, and South Korea. Of the 12, some observers say Israel is the only country whose variant is unique. According to Lockheed Martin spokesperson Eric Schnaible, the company modified the F-35 for Israel in three main areas: command, control, communications, computers, and intelligence (C4I), electronic warfare, and weapons integration. Initially, the US refused to allow Israeli modifications to the F-35. The compromise reached involved not changing anything inside the aircraft, but allowing the Israelis to add capabilities on top of the existing infrastructure. State-run Israel Aerospace Industries, for example, is working on a C4I overlay for the F-35, with Lockheed Martin. “It’s open architecture, which sits on the F-35’s central system, much like an application on your iPhone,” Benni Cohen, general manager of IAI’s Lahav Division, told Defense News last year. “The F-35 Adir aircraft has also been provisioned to allow updates to EW and weapons interfaces,” Schnaible said. “The design of aircraft installations, power, and cooling have been modified to provide IAF the ability to incorporate indigenous weapons.” The types of weapons Israel will be adding to the F-35 are either classified or not yet known, and Moti wouldn’t confirm either. “It’s like a view to the future. We know we want to fly with Israeli weapons in this aircraft,” he said. “Because it’s so complex, we started working today on understanding how we can integrate future weapons.” The same goes for communications, the challenge being figuring out a way for the F-35 to communicate with the F-15s and F-16s it’s going to fly alongside. “We need to have Israeli communications,” Moti said. “The aircraft are supposed to speak in the same protocols.” As the F-35 is akin to “a flying computer,” Moti explained, “if you’re not speaking the same language as this computer, you cannot do anything.” Maintenance of the aircraft is going to be performed in Israel, at the Nevatim base. According to the Jerusalem Post, “Other countries that purchased the aircraft will have their maintenance done at regional centers, often outside their borders.”

Ahead of the Threats

In an August 2016 American Enterprise Institute study titled “The Strategic Impact of the S-300 in Iran,” author Christopher Harmer writes in the synopsis: “The deployment of S-300 [air defense system] components to Iran is a strategic game changer in the Middle East, giving Iran a significant strategic advantage against regional states and significantly complicating US air operations.” He adds: “Deployment of the S-300 in Iran means the US will need to recalibrate its current mix of airframes in the Middle East.” Harmer considers the S-300 “the most advanced surface-to-air missile system available for export to potential enemies of the United States.” The threat posed by advanced Russian S-300 series, surface-to-air missile systems applies equally to US allies such as Israel. For that reason, retired USAF Lt. Gen. David A. Deptula, dean of the Air Force Association’s Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies, called the F-35’s stealth an “enormous advantage.” This is because, with it, Israel “will be the only nation to be able to deal with some of the advanced surface-to-air and air-to-air dangers being introduced directly to the north,” he told Air Force Magazine.
But stealth is “only one part” of what the F-35 offers, Deptula argued. The aircraft “needs to be thought of as a sensor-shooter,” he said. The F-35 should actually be thought of as an “F-B-E/A-RC-E-AWACS-35,” as it will integrate capabilities seen in traditional fighters, bombers, electronic warfare aircraft, reconnaissance planes, and special electronic and airborne warning and control system platforms. If a missile is shot at it, for example, the F-35 can automatically detect where it came from and the pilot can automatically target that location. Communications links on the aircraft will allow it to gather information on hostiles even while it’s still on the ground. After it takes off, it learns more. “No other aircraft that the Israelis possess enables this,” Deptula said. This presents a “paradigm shift” in IAF’s situational awareness. After sensing danger, the F-35 will then be able to synthesize the information, applying it and sharing it with ground, naval, and air units outside that specific aircraft. In other words, an airborne F-35 isn’t an isolated capability, but a pair of eyes the entire Israel Defense Forces (IDF) will now have to equip the given theater. This type of knowledge advantage is essential for a country having “no depth to fall back on” in war, according to Deptula, and a potential Iranian conflict is real. “We have to pay very close attention and hold Iran to the letter of agreement,” he said of the recent deal governing Iran’s nuclear weapons research. “History indicates they will take every advantage to break out of the current agreement or, as soon as it expires, to bring rapid production of nuclear weapons,” Deptula said. “Iran is an existential threat to Israel.”

Reinventing the Air Force

The introduction of a unique aircraft like the F-35 will affect the nature of communication and war planning within the IDF. “Now we are going to have a mixed fleet,” said retired IAF Brig. Gen. Ephraim Segoli. He served in IAF for 25 years and in 1997 studied as a fellow at the School of Advanced Air and Space Studies, Maxwell AFB, Ala. In Israel, he eventually joined the Fisher Institute for Air and Space Strategic Studies, where he heads the Airpower and Asymmetric Conflict Research Center. “The F-35 is bringing a new culture. It is a big challenge. Not just a technical challenge, like how we talk,” but also how airmen and other branches of the military will use information, in what order, and with what aims. Like everything else with the F-35, “time and experience” will reveal the potential advantages and limitations of the aircraft, he said. The dichotomy within IAF on the new aircraft is a conflict between efficiency and operational capability, the former necessarily detracting from the reality of the latter. The longer you test, the longer it takes to bring an aircraft to operational status. Nine F-35Is are expected to reach initial operational capability in 2017, according to Brig. Gen. Tal Kelman, IAF’s chief of staff, which will make Israel the first country outside the US to have operational F-35s. “The level of uncertainty is very high,” Segoli said. “It’s very difficult to understand the real potential of this system.” The amount of information the F-35 is designed to gather and disseminate to the rest of IAF and IDF may also change the way IAF operates within the IDF. “In my opinion, the air force has a very unique part in any campaign planning,” said Segoli. “It was not done and it is not done,” he told Air Force Magazine in a January interview, referring to IAF’s role in holistically advising on military campaigns. “The air force must understand [the F-35] is not just there to improve one, two, or three capabilities.” While the F-35 can allow IAF to penetrate threats now being developed, Segoli emphasized he sees no current threats the F-35 is capable of attacking alone. Rather, he emphasized the role of the aircraft in deterring those rising threats. If Iran is considering rolling out nuclear capabilities, the F-35’s ability to fly past the country’s surface-to-air defense system may affect such plans.

The Cost Question

US President Donald Trump implied in a December 2016 tweet he may reduce the number of US F-35 purchases, and if that happens, Segoli explained, the value of the F-35 will be further scrutinized in Israel. “If you sell less, there will be an effect on the price,” Segoli said. If cost increases, this might become a problem. Some Israeli experts are already questioning the purchase, not seeing an immediate need for the deep capabilities of the F-35 when considering asymmetric opponents like Hamas and Hezbollah. Lockheed Martin plans to bring down the cost of the F-35 to around $85 million per unit by 2019. If that happens, Israel may save $435 million on 29 F-35s. “Before [an F-35I] even shoots a missile or drops a bomb,” Deptula said, the F-35 program is bringing nations together. This he termed “the greatest strategic value of the F-35.” Many countries operating common equipment such as the F-35 “engenders common defense strategies” that then encourage those nations to partner and work closer together, Deptula noted. He called this an “enormous value” and an intangible—but said that if he had to think of it in dollars, it’d be in the trillions. Still, at nearly $100 million a pop, the $5 billion price tag for 50 aircraft is a sticking point for many Israeli civilians. The populace is aware that the agreements in place to allow Israel to perform its own maintenance on the aircraft will raise Israeli sustainment costs. It may be years before the F-35 program settles into enough of a routine for today’s questions about unit costs and planned inventories to be resolved. But whatever quantities and capabilities the F-35 ends up offering later, within the IAF there is considerable agreement that it’ll be “adir.”

0417_Grudo_Israeli.pdf
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:)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 02:22
by spazsinbad
On page four of this thread the SAME article appears in excerpts - what is your problem? Search on author name ffsake:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=29374&p=363608&hilit=Grudo#p363608

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 04:44
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:On page four of this thread the SAME article appears in excerpts - what is your problem? Search on author name ffsake:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=29374&p=363608&hilit=Grudo#p363608


...well, IMHO the article deserves more than that abbreviated blurb...so that is "ffsake"...next time waste your efforts on something that matters.... :bang:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 05:49
by spazsinbad
Let us face it - you are just making excuses. As I have said a few times now I'm FORBIDDEN to excerpt more than 50% of articles and to excerpt those parts that make my point. Perhaps the same MODERATOR rule should apply to you?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 15:47
by steve2267
From spaz' quoted news article above:

Israel launches missile attacks on Syria
23 Apr 2017 Big News Network.com

...Sunday's bombing was believed to have been carried out by one of the two newly arrived U.S. F-35 stealth fighter planes which were provided to Israel by the United States last year. Coincidently, 3 more F-35 planes arrived in Israel on Sunday, boosting the number of F-35s in the Israel Air Force to five. ...

Source: http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/2529 ... s-on-syria


From the DailyMail:
Netanyahu threatens to 'destroy' anyone who threatens Israel and 'directs a hatred of Jews' towards them in Holocaust Remembrance Day speech

By Rod Ardehali 24 April 2017

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has threatened to destroy enemies of the Jewish state.

In a speech marking the annual Holocaust Remembrance Day, the former special forces soldier turned politician warned: 'Those who threaten to destroy us risk being destroyed themselves.'

At the Yom Hashoah ceremony in Yad Vashem, Mr Netanyahu said: 'Iran and the Islamic state want to destroy us, and a hatred for Jews is being directed towards the Jewish state today.

'From being defenceless people, we have become a state with a defensive capacity that is among the strongest in the world,' he added.

Netanyahu said the lesson of the Holocaust is that 'we must be able to defend ourselves by ourselves against all threats and any enemy.'

Adding this lesson guides him 'every morning and every evening.'

...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4439274/Netanyahu-threatens-want-destroy-Israel.html


From the article (re-)quoted by Neptune:
The Israeli F-35s

By Gideon Grudo April 2017

... Accordingly, when the first two aircraft landed Dec. 12, 2016, at Nevatim Air Base, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proclaimed, “Our long arm has now become longer and mightier.” ...

... According to Lockheed Martin spokesperson Eric Schnaible, the company modified the F-35 for Israel in three main areas: command, control, communications, computers, and intelligence (C4I), electronic warfare, and weapons integration. ...

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2017/April%202017/The-Israeli-F-35s.aspx


I don't think there can be any doubt that one of the Israeli's first priorities will be to integrate their "domestic" nuclear capability with the F-35, thereby directly threatening Iran (or any other ME actor), S-300 not-withstanding. The Persian's aren't stupid, so hopefully they "get it" and a sort of MAD stability settles over the ME.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 17:18
by mixelflick
So these will be primarily air to ground birds, or air to air? Both??

From the write up, it's going to be doing a whole lot more than air to ground/interdiction work. Israel is widely known to have the best fighter pilots, but their hardware is rapidly ageing. Sure, the avionics etc have been updated but the basic F-15 and 16 airframes seem long in the tooth. Then again, I see no Super Flankers anywhere in Syria or other near enemy state. Russian SU-35's however, pose a more credible threat.

In that event, do you think the Adir would be pressed into an air superiority role? Perhaps similar to how F-22's team with USAF F-15's today???

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 May 2017, 16:34
by spazsinbad
Lockheed VP: 'There’s a part of Israel in every F-35'
04 May 2017 Barbara Opall-Rome

"...As for the remaining 25 aircraft pre-approved for Israel by Washington, Israel Air Force officials are beginning to speak openly about its desire for the F-35B-Short Takeoff and Landing (STOVL) model.

“We understand that [STOVL] brings a different concept for fighter planes in general and for the F-35 in particular… I expect we will be involved in this here in Israel as we go forward,” Brig. Gen. Eyal Grinboym, commander of the F-35’s home base at Nevatim, told the same air power gathering.

In his address, Grimboym praised the aircraft for its performance, “fully-autonomous attack capabilities” and “the new concept” that it is introducing into the service’s entire frontline fighter force. He noted that the Israel Air Force is working to build new structures at his desert base in southern Israel to more appropriately accommodate the F-35 fleet.

As for North, the title of his lecture to the gathering was simply “F-35B STOVL,” further indication of the growing interest here in the short-takeoff and landing variant. In an interview prior to his conference address, North declined to say how far along the firm was in discussions with Israel on potential acquisition of the F-35B.

Nevertheless, North, a former commander of U.S. Air Force operations in the Pacific and Middle East theaters, said the B-model offers unique added value in scenarios where assets may have to operate from dispersed locations.

“The recent US Tomahawk strike into Syria demonstrates that fixed airfields could be destroyed or made unusable for a short period of time. So the B-model, with short takeoff and vertical landing, is a phenomenal platform that brings operational flexibility.”"

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/loc ... every-f-35

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2017, 15:56
by spazsinbad
Israeli air force to receive unique test F-35
24 May 2017 Arie Egozi

"Israel's air force will take delivery of an additional Lockheed Martin F-35 in 2020 with a special suite of test instrumentation. "This unique aircraft, which was not part of any other F-35 contract, will enable us to begin the work of upgrading the capabilities of this aircraft so that it answers our special operational requirements," says the commander of the air force's test centre, identified only as Lt Col Shlomy.

The unique test aircraft is being manufactured according to specifications that took two years to prepare, he adds. It will be used to enhance the type's capabilities during air-to-air and air-to-ground missions.

"All our platforms have been upgraded to enable stretching the flight envelope while using the unique weapon systems made by Israeli industry," Shlomy says.

Planned updates to Israel's operational F-35I "Adir" fighters will be "directly connected" to the type's scheduled maintenance programme, "in order to not disrupt the aim of the shortest time on the ground between complex missions"."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 35-437569/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2017, 17:38
by neptune
In August 2012 Lockheed Martin received a $206 million award from the U.S. Navy Naval Air Systems Command, covering the development and integration of Israeli systems in the F-35A. Part of a larger package, the integration support agreement with Lockheed Martin covers a $450 million program to enhance Electronic Warfare (EW) equipment on the F-35, and integrate Israeli-unique systems beginning in 2016.

--...To further extend the F-35’s range, Lockheed Martin is exploring an innovative concept from Israel, of using unique drop tanks, developed by Elbit Systems Cyclone. Designed in a similar concept to the F-22 under-wing drop tanks, these tanks, each containing 425 gal. of fuel, will use special attachment pylons that would completely separate from the wing, regaining full stealth capability after separation. An additional 900 (850) gal. of fuel (EFT)will significantly extend the F-35I range, enabling the IAF to operate its new stealth fighter at the “outer ring” of operation without mandatory aerial refueling."

....So what other "current" Israeli weapons can be tested and added to the F-35I??

- "The Israeli Air Force plans to arm the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II fighters with Python-5 missiles."
- "the I-Derby RAFAEL utilized a new, Software Defined Active Radar seeker, based on combat-proven seeker developed by RAFAEL for the Tamir missile, used with the company’s Iron Dome counter Rocket, Artillery and Missile (C-RAM) system. Using an active radar for target seeking, the missiles enables multi-shot engagement from - air-launched platforms. With this sensor and its signal processing algorithms the missile enables look-down/shoot-down capability, and advanced operating modes, adding to the ‘fire and forget’. Further improvements are enabled for the missile’s ECCM capability, tailoring the weapon’s behavior to the customer’s operational requirements.
- The I-Derby ER incorporates the innovative I-Derby RF seeker combined with a dramatic increase of kinematic performance (up to 100Km)
- The Advanced Naval Attack Missile is a new member in MBT Missile's family of naval attack missiles. The missile uses an advanced active radar seeker and a sophisticated weapon control system to achieve very high operational effectiveness. With dimensions similar to the Exocet and Harpoon, Gabriel-5 represents the latest member to IAI's Gabriel Missile family of naval attack missiles. The new Gabriel 5 is designed to offer superior performance compared to most contemporary missiles, particularly when employed in littoral waters against sophisticated soft- and hard-kill protected targets.
- SPICE is fully operational and has recently demonstrated outstanding combat performance in all parameters to become one of the Israeli Air Force's leading air-to-surface weapon systems. Spice guidance kits convert 1000 lb and 2000 lb general purpose and penetration warheads into precision stand-off strike weapons (Spice-1000 and Spice-2000). SPICE-1000 kit for 1000 lb. general purpose or penetration warheads, such as MK-83 and RAP1000, with a stand-off range of 100 kilometers. SPICE-2000 kit for 2000 lb. general purpose or penetration warheads, such as MK-84, RAP2000 and BLU-109, with a stand-off range of 60 kilometers.
- SPICE-250 - the latest addition to the SPICE family - is a new generation stand-off Precision Guided Munition (PGM). SPICE-250 has a standoff range of 100 kilometers. The SPICE-250 is an autonomous weapon with real time target position update capability. SPICE-250 is a unitary munition and can be equipped with either general purpose or penetration warheads. Aircraft increase load-out and wide target set provide the optimal solution for high volume precise strike for the dynamic battlefield. SPICE is easily integrated onto a wide range of single and dual-seated fighter aircraft, and requires no aircraft modifications. SPICE-250 uses a common aircraft interface and sophisticated Smart Quad Rack (SQR) that simplifies the effort needed for aircraft integration. Four SPICE-250 weapons are carried on each SQR. SPICE-250 can be directly mounted on light attack aircraft store stations, due to its small size and light weight. SPICE is fully operational and has recently demonstrated outstanding combat performance in all parameters to become one the Israeli Air Force's leading air-to-surface weapon systems.

...I'm sure there are others but these seem to cover the gamut of US weapons, todate.
...what no lasers, no chameleon camo, no twice as fast and twice as far Israeli magic??
:)

...has UAI been released to the NATO allies?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 09 Jun 2017, 16:16
by zerion
Israel Completes Order For 50 Lockheed Martin F-35 Fighter jets

Israel's Ministry of Defense recently sent a letter to the US Department of Defense to complete the purchase of 17 F-35 jets, Israel's Walla News reported on Thursday. Each plane costs approximately US$100 million. The acquisition was first announced in November 2016, and brings the total number of F-35s purchased by Israel to 50.
Israel is the only country in the Middle East to have the jet, which was not included in the recent arms deal signed between the US and Saudi Arabia.
The Israeli version of the F-35, the "Adir", had its first test flight at the Lockheed Martin facility in Fort Worth, Texas in July 2016. Five of the planes are currently in operation out of southern Israel's Nevatim air base, with two more due to arrive in August, a further two in September, and nine additional planes in 2018.
Israel is also expected to receive a test plane for experimenting with new technologies.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19526/ ... Tq7ietHarU

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Jun 2017, 00:41
by popcorn

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2017, 17:05
by spazsinbad
The cryptic 'popcorn' URL above also mentions F-35Bs for Israel & here we go again - despite the naysayers - Bs ROOL! :doh:
Israel weighing interest in STOVL-variant F-35
03 Aug 2017 Arie Egozi

"New threats faced by Israel have placed the potential purchase of short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) variant Lockheed Martin F-35Bs as a high priority. Discussions are under way, with Israel's defence ministry hoping to reach a decision before a new 10-year Foreign Military Financing agreement with the USA comes into effect in 2019.

Deliveries of conventional take-off and landing F-35Is to the Israeli air force continue, with the service having so far placed orders for 50 examples. The “Golden Eagle” squadron which operates the "Adir" and the air force's flight test squadron continue to adapt the stealth fighter to meet the nation's specific requirements, with this work including the addition of a number of Israeli-developed systems....

...Sources indicate that the Israeli air force will have to choose between obtaining additional F-35s – potentially including STOVL examples – or an advanced version of the F-15... capable of carrying an expanded weapons load."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 35-439959/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Aug 2017, 18:00
by mixelflick
I always said the Israeli's would be first to bloody the F-35, now I just hope they can use it air to air.

It speaks volumes IMO that they're upping their order. I would expect an additional order for up to 25 B's in lieu of more F-15's, as Israel has to have a backup plan if her airfields are hit/put out of commission. Seeing as Israel is just focused on survival instead of grabbing large swath's of land, her F-15's and 16's can handle the air defense mission.

It is only a matter of time before the Iranian reactor is hit, and you can bet once the F-35 reaches critical mass there (25 airframes?), they'll use it to finish the job...

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 12:59
by nutshell
mixelflick wrote:I always said the Israeli's would be first to bloody the F-35, now I just hope they can use it air to air.

It speaks volumes IMO that they're upping their order. I would expect an additional order for up to 25 B's in lieu of more F-15's, as Israel has to have a backup plan if her airfields are hit/put out of commission. Seeing as Israel is just focused on survival instead of grabbing large swath's of land, her F-15's and 16's can handle the air defense mission.

It is only a matter of time before the Iranian reactor is hit, and you can bet once the F-35 reaches critical mass there (25 airframes?), they'll use it to finish the job...


Israel is by itself a sort of benchmark. If they buy something for their military and ask for more, then you already have a hint or two on how good the product is.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 17:12
by talkitron
nutshell wrote:Israel is by itself a sort of benchmark. If they buy something for their military and ask for more, then you already have a hint or two on how good the product is.


Israel has good tastes within the spectrum of US weapons. Except for submarines from Germany, Israel is doing little importing of weapon systems from countries other than the US. This is likely because of massive US military aid that comes with buy American type clauses and a strong-per-citizen domestic arms industry.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 18:53
by blindpilot
talkitron wrote:... Except for submarines from Germany, Israel is doing little importing of weapon systems... because of massive US military aid that comes with buy American type clauses ...


That's a loop hole you could drive a bus through. Those subs are ... first two totally paid for by Germany, and last ones Germany pays 1/3 the price. AND Israel used "US Aid" to help pay for the other 2/3. And it's not just because the US doesn't offer "non-nuclear powered subs" to compete. Israel does the same thing with ships, missiles, radars etc.

I agree with the basic premise that Israel looks to "dance with the one that brung her," but she would buy German subsidized Eurofighters in a heartbeat if they were considered better, and use US Aid to help pay for them. (see Eurocopter AS565, Italian M-346 etc.)

Israel always buys what she considers "the Best Available."

Just saying,
BP

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 20:04
by SpudmanWP
Keep in mind that the US does not build or have expertise in AIP or diesel subs, let alone littoral subs.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Aug 2017, 01:35
by alloycowboy
blindpilot wrote:
talkitron wrote:... Except for submarines from Germany, Israel is doing little importing of weapon systems... because of massive US military aid that comes with buy American type clauses ...


That's a loop hole you could drive a bus through. Those subs are ... first two totally paid for by Germany, and last ones Germany pays 1/3 the price. AND Israel used "US Aid" to help pay for the other 2/3. And it's not just because the US doesn't offer "non-nuclear powered subs" to compete. Israel does the same thing with ships, missiles, radars etc.

I agree with the basic premise that Israel looks to "dance with the one that brung her," but she would buy German subsidized Eurofighters in a heartbeat if they were considered better, and use US Aid to help pay for them. (see Eurocopter AS565, Italian M-346 etc.)

Israel always buys what she considers "the Best Available."

Just saying,
BP


Also like the Gopro and the Iphone the market for F-35 accessories is going to be huge ($$$,$$$,$$$,$$$) and it would be foolish for Isreali aerospace companies not to grab a big piece of that market. (Ie. large stealth drop tanks)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Aug 2017, 02:15
by vanshilar
alloycowboy wrote:(Ie. large stealth drop tanks)


I always wonder if stealth drop tanks will be "export controlled" i.e. not allowed to drop it in enemy territory :mrgreen:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Aug 2017, 04:35
by talkitron
SpudmanWP wrote:Keep in mind that the US does not build or have expertise in AIP or diesel subs, let alone littoral subs.


Israeli subs seem to have a strategic nuclear role, i.e. a retaliatory strike against Iran. Part of the controversial, recent German deal seems to be about keeping a sub in the Persian Gulf to keep Iran on its good behavior.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 09 Aug 2017, 10:38
by doge
http://english.pnn.ps/2017/08/09/three- ... g-on-gaza/
Army spokesperson also said that the F35 aircrafts were used for the first time in an attack on Gaza.

!?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 09 Aug 2017, 11:13
by hythelday
doge wrote:http://english.pnn.ps/2017/08/09/three-palestinians-wounded-in-israeli-shelling-on-gaza/
Army spokesperson also said that the F35 aircrafts were used for the first time in an attack on Gaza.

!?


Questionable source.

Jerusalem Post also said "F-35 were reported", but by whom? Haaretz and Times of Israel didn't mention aircraft models.

Most importantly IDF official channels did not report about aircraft either:

https://mobile.twitter.com/IDFSpokesper ... 4713980928

Unfortunately Israel MoD and IAF websites are void of news regarding this event.

Article with plenty of of vids:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-je ... et-strike/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 09 Aug 2017, 16:52
by nutshell
I talk directly from my personal experience (worked on OTO melara- Finemccanica; targetting and comms systems and maintenance).

Israelis are picky, stubborn, arrogant too but they only buy the stuff they think is best.

They dont give a **** of your british or german or american.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 01:15
by spazsinbad
Procurement a key priority for Israel's new air force chief
15 Aug 2017 Arie Egozi

"The appointment of Maj Gen Amikam Norkin as the Israeli air force's new commander could expedite some of its procurement plans, including for the Boeing KC-46A tanker, Lockheed Martin F-35 and longer-endurance unmanned air vehicles....

...The air force's most urgent decisions are related to the procurement of more F-35Is, beyond the 50 that are already included in signed contracts, purchasing KC-46A tankers and developing and buying long-endurance UAVs with multiple payloads. The service has also recently shown an interest in acquiring the short take-off and vertical landing variant of the F-35."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rc-440297/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 16:24
by mixelflick
I say they buy a minimum of 25 B's, perhaps up to 50.

The A's will fly the strike on the Iranian nuclear reactor. The B's... God only knows. Perhaps point defense protecting Israel, in the event missiles/enemy aircraft knock out her airfields...

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 16:38
by jakobs
I still don't see the need for the B's.


It seems to me it would just be better to build up a network of road bases to use with the regular A's and don't have to deal with the drawbacks of the B's.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 16:49
by spazsinbad
It seems to me that Israel wants to deal with the POSITIVES of the F-35Bs despite your negative perceptions of the F-35B.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 16:51
by SpudmanWP
jakobs wrote:I still don't see the need for the B's.


[cough]LHA[/cough]

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 20:34
by wewuzkangz
@neptune

"The stealth fighter is considered one of the most advanced aircraft in the world, capable of taking on most missile defense batteries, including the Russian S-300, which was recently acquired by Iran, and which has been used in Syria, where Israeli planes reportedly fly sorties."

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/03/17 ... es-second/ Israel denied the claims of any f-16s getting shot down however Libermans pissed response sort of counteracts the denial claim http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/84 ... king-twice ......Its pretty funny when I think about it reports came of f-35s destroying s-300s in march 7 than 10 later reports of s-300 downing f-16s. I have only heard of pantsir-s1, s-300 and s-400 being delivered to syria that is all.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 21:57
by botsing
wewuzkangz wrote:Its pretty funny when I think about it reports came of f-35s destroying s-300s in march 7 than 10 later reports of s-300 downing f-16s. I have only heard of pantsir-s1, s-300 and s-400 being delivered to syria that is all.

Let me check...

* F-35 destroying S-300? No reliable sources for that.
* F-16 shot down by S-300? No reliable sources for that.
* S-400 delivered to Syria? You might mean that Russia operates one inside Syria, though knowing your posting history this probably flew over your head and you misinterpreted it.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 02:27
by XanderCrews
wewuzkangz wrote:@..Its pretty funny when I think about it reports came of f-35s destroying s-300s in march 7 than 10 later reports of s-300 downing f-16s. I have only heard of pantsir-s1, s-300 and s-400 being delivered to syria that is all.


It's pretty funny how you believe everything you hear and start getting contradictions

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 02:29
by XanderCrews
jakobs wrote:I still don't see the need for the B's.


It seems to me it would just be better to build up a network of road bases to use with the regular A's and don't have to deal with the drawbacks of the B's.



Buy the B's and not have to deal with the drawbacks of road bases

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 04:21
by rheonomic
Everyone has to sh*t on the B; ironically it's probably the most impressive variant in terms of the engineering required.

Isreal should buy even more. :D

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 07:49
by hythelday
Maj, Gen. Amir Eshel, former chief of IAF, says:

"Israel struck arms convoys on several enemy fronts nearly 100 times in past five years ... when Israel has a vested interest, it acts irrespective of the risks"

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.807246

Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who even remotely monitors ME news. All those explosions in downtown Damascus weren't from neglect of fire safety rules.

Iran is in dire need those ROFAR 3D radars right about now.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:34
by mk82
hythelday wrote:Maj, Gen. Amir Eshel, former chief of IAF, says:

"Israel struck arms convoys on several enemy fronts nearly 100 times in past five years ... when Israel has a vested interest, it acts irrespective of the risks"

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.807246

Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who even remotely monitors ME news. All those explosions in downtown Damascus weren't from neglect of fire safety rules.

Iran is in dire need those ROFAR 3D radars right about now.


Iran subsequently discovered that their ROFAR 3D radars are actually shiny disco balls that shoot out feeble photons....good enough for a dance session in Studio 54 bwahahahaha :mrgreen:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 00:03
by USMilFan
nutshell wrote:Israel is by itself a sort of benchmark. If they buy something for their military and ask for more, then you already have a hint or two on how good the product is.


I fully agree that Israel is a reliable benchmark, especially for armchair outsiders like me who have no experience in or exposure to aviation. I only know that Israel depends on its air force for its very survival. While I find pilots like Chip Berke utterly persuasive, Israel's commitment to the F-35 is what gives me total confidence in the plane.

It is noteworthy that Israel's choice to buy F-35's implies that its forces will have abandoned its traditional doctrines of aerial warfare and embraced the revolutionary advancements brought by fifth-gen warfare concepts. This is no small thing to a country that has for decades depended on its very survival by adhering faithfully to pre-fifth-gen concepts of warfare.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2017, 04:38
by nutshell
USMilFan wrote: This is no small thing to a country that has for decades depended on its very survival by adhering faithfully to pre-fifth-gen concepts of warfare.


They surely are not in the position where they could have a F104 or a legacy Hornet.
Their doctrine was always quite clean "Sheer overwhelming quality". The F35 brings them 3 things: quality,quality and quality.

jakobs wrote:I still don't see the need for the B's.


It seems to me it would just be better to build up a network of road bases to use with the regular A's and don't have to deal with the drawbacks of the B's.


For a country like mine its a god send.

I mean, we built the Cavour carrier around the massive flexibility of the Bee.

Furthermore, when you operate in hostile territory, you don't always have the luxury of bigger airstrips. So the B is nothing but the most advanced strike aircraft able to operate pretty much everywhere, even in my backyard.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 04:57
by neptune
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-440473/

Israel tests F-35I refueling procedures

22 AUGUST, 2017
BY: ARIE EGOZI TEL AVIV

Israel has begun an evaluation campaign using its air force's fleet of Lockheed Martin F-35I "Adirs" to test locally developed systems and aerial refuelling procedures for the type. The trials are a key step as the air force works towards initial operational capability for its Joint Strike Fighters. Aerial refuelling tests have been conducted from Tel-Nof air base using one of the service's Boeing 707 tankers. Israel received its first of an eventual 50 of the conventional take-off and landing A-model F-35s in late 2016.
:)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 05:18
by arrow-nautics
jakobs wrote:I still don't see the need for the B's. It seems to me it would just be better to build up a network of road bases to use with the regular A's and don't have to deal with the drawbacks of the B's.


When you study & reflect on Israel's wars & history it makes sense they want a short range killer. There's always going to be a Golan Heights regardless off who holds it! It's always been a key strategic point. Defensively & offensively it does make sense for Israel IMO

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 13:44
by steve2267
arrow-nautics wrote:
jakobs wrote:I still don't see the need for the B's. It seems to me it would just be better to build up a network of road bases to use with the regular A's and don't have to deal with the drawbacks of the B's.


When you study & reflect on Israel's wars & history it makes sense they want a short range killer. There's always going to be a Golan Heights regardless off who holds it! It's always been a key strategic point. Defensively & offensively it does make sense for Israel IMO


A "short range" aircraft with longer legs than a SHornet?

People are always hitting on the F-35B for being "short range" when it has better range than most (if not all) western 4th gen aircraft (certainly if they weren't lugging around bags). It's only "short range" compared to the "-A" and "-C" models.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 14:22
by botsing
steve2267 wrote:
arrow-nautics wrote:
jakobs wrote:I still don't see the need for the B's. It seems to me it would just be better to build up a network of road bases to use with the regular A's and don't have to deal with the drawbacks of the B's.


When you study & reflect on Israel's wars & history it makes sense they want a short range killer. There's always going to be a Golan Heights regardless off who holds it! It's always been a key strategic point. Defensively & offensively it does make sense for Israel IMO


A "short range" aircraft with longer legs than a SHornet?

People are always hitting on the F-35B for being "short range" when it has better range than most (if not all) western 4th gen aircraft (certainly if they weren't lugging around bags). It's only "short range" compared to the "-A" and "-C" models.

A "short-range" as in "closer to the front" can mean a higher sortie rate and faster response, the F-35B would be perfect for that job.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 14:32
by SpudmanWP
I think "short range" refers to the AAM (ie ASRAAM, 9X, etc) and not the plane caring the AAM.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 16:38
by XanderCrews
Israel figured out a long time ago that sortie generation trumps fleets. Take 1 airplane and have it do 10 missions instead of 10 airplanes doing one.

The F-35B is a natural fit.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Aug 2017, 16:02
by hythelday
Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel expands on his 5 year tenure as IAF commandder, says this about F-35:

“[The Americans] embarked on something very ambitious in its capabilities. We already see what this plane has. Not everything is perfect. There are things you learn along the way. That’s been the case with every plane we acquired. But when you take off in this plane from Nevatim [base], you can’t believe it. At 5,000 feet, the whole Middle East is there for you in the cockpit. You see things, it’s inconceivable. American pilots who visit us haven’t seen anything like it, because they fly over Arizona or Florida, and here they suddenly see the [entire] Middle East as a combat zone – the threats, the different players, at both close range and long range. Only then do you grasp the enormous potential of this machine. We’re already seeing it with our eyes.”


http://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/ ... m-1.808556

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2017, 13:31
by fang
Israel finalizes agreements to buy 17 more F-35 jets
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-fin ... f-35-jets/

On tuesday (Aug 29) another two F-35i's (should be AS-6 & AS-7) will depart Texas on the way to Nevatim AFB in Israel.
In October two more F-35i's (AS-8 & AS-9) will join the fleet in Israel.
IOC to be declared in 12/2017 with all the 9 aircrafts.

Head of the F-35 JPO Visits Israel
http://www.iaf.org.il/4463-49463-en/IAF.aspx

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Aug 2017, 23:38
by SpudmanWP
fang wrote:Israel finalizes agreements to buy 17 more F-35 jets


DEATH SPIRAL............... :mrgreen:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 05:45
by gc
hythelday wrote:Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel expands on his 5 year tenure as IAF commandder, says this about F-35:

“[The Americans] embarked on something very ambitious in its capabilities. We already see what this plane has. Not everything is perfect. There are things you learn along the way. That’s been the case with every plane we acquired. But when you take off in this plane from Nevatim [base], you can’t believe it. At 5,000 feet, the whole Middle East is there for you in the cockpit. You see things, it’s inconceivable. American pilots who visit us haven’t seen anything like it, because they fly over Arizona or Florida, and here they suddenly see the [entire] Middle East as a combat zone – the threats, the different players, at both close range and long range. Only then do you grasp the enormous potential of this machine. We’re already seeing it with our eyes.”


http://www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/ ... m-1.808556


With the advanced ESM systems aboard the F-22 and F-35, I do not see why they cannot be used over the eastern Europe and western pacific region to gather intel on threat emitter characteristics and location data. Using these stealth fighter platforms seems much safer than using lumbering RC-135s and EP-3Es which are prone to dangerous air to air intercepts by Russian and Chinese fighters. Anyone knows if the ALR-94 and ASQ-239 system can collect and store raw data for analysis in the lab in a similar manner to traditional SIGINT platforms?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 09:55
by hythelday
gc wrote: Anyone knows if the ALR-94 and ASQ-239 system can collect and store raw data for analysis in the lab in a similar manner to traditional SIGINT platforms?


Nice try, SVR :mrgreen:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 11:45
by spazsinbad
Purchase finalized for 17 more F-35 stealth fighter jets
27 Aug 2017 Yoav Zitun

"...According to the contract, the planes' delivery will be completed by December 2024. "This is the third deal for F-35 purchases the Ministry of Defense has penned in the past decade alone," said Dubi Lavie, the head of the Israeli delegation to the US.

"With every series of jets coming off the production line, the American manufacturer has committed to bringing the price for an individual plane down," Lavie added. "We're happy to announce that on this particular deal, the American project manager has successfully negotiated with the manufacturing company to bring down the average per-plane price to below $100 million. This is a significant reduction compared to the planes Israel has brought thus far."

In the first deal, Israel paid $125 million per plane for 19 F-35s in total. In the second deal, the price went down to $112 million per plane for 14 jets. Israel expects the price to drop below $90 million per plane when it approaches the US again for planes for a third flight squadron.

This price reduction came after the Pentagon ordered 50 new jets from manufacturer Lockheed Martin. F-35 jets are considered to be more expensive for the Israeli Air Force compared to those purchased by the US Air Force due to the number of unique systems [BLACK BOX Interface] installed onboard the planes as per the operational requirements made by the IDF....

...All 50 planes the Ministry of Defense procured for the air force are of the A model but were integrated with unique capabilities and advanced Israeli weapon systems."

Source: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 50,00.html

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2017, 14:10
by sunstersun
I think Israel will eventually get up to 100 F-35's.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 23:17
by afjag
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Two-F- ... yed-503713

TWO F-35S DUE TO LAND IN ISRAEL NEXT WEEK DELAYED

The arrival of two F-35 “Adir” stealth fighter jets expected to land in Israel in the coming days has been delayed due to technical problems found in other F-35s.

While there were no problems discovered in the Israeli jets, “according to the decision of the US Air Force, the arrival of the two F-35 ‘Adir’ jets will be delayed for a short period of time in order to complete the technical inspection of aircraft,” the IDF said on Tuesday.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 13:23
by fang
Delivery of two F-35 jets delayed over issue in different model
https://www.timesofisrael.com/delivery- ... ent-model/

Does anyone know what's the problems with the other US aircraft?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 13:21
by mas
F-35 offers Israel 'entire Middle East' from the cockpit

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origina ... ority.html

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 17:45
by spazsinbad
Perhaps the 'unknown' reason and just my WAG is that the aircraft delivered need to be 'operational' when they arrive?
Israel orders additional F-35s
29 Aug 2017 Yaakov Lappin

"...The military source told Jane’s in July that the five that have already been delivered will be declared fully operational in December and that all aircraft that will subsequently be delivered will be considered operational when they arrive...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/73407/isra ... onal-f-35s

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 18:17
by botsing
spazsinbad wrote:Perhaps the 'unknown' reason and just my WAG is that the aircraft delivered need to be 'operational' when they arrive?
Israel orders additional F-35s
29 Aug 2017 Yaakov Lappin

"...The military source told Jane’s in July that the five that have already been delivered will be declared fully operational in December and that all aircraft that will subsequently be delivered will be considered operational when they arrive...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/73407/isra ... onal-f-35s

You mean with block 3F loaded? Good thinking!

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 19:31
by mas
fang wrote:Delivery of two F-35 jets delayed over issue in different model
https://www.timesofisrael.com/delivery- ... ent-model/

Does anyone know what's the problems with the other US aircraft?


“The manufacturer found a trivial mishap in the fuel pipe of model B planes, while our planes are model A. But the manufacturer wanted to be sure that the model A's don’t have the same problem, so he asked our approval to delay the arrival to next week. Of course, we agreed.”

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origina ... ority.html

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 21:05
by neptune
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Two-F- ... yed-503713

Two F-35s due to land in Israel next week delayed

By Anna Ahronheim
August 29, 2017 19:32

USAF takes decision after technical problems found in other jets.

The arrival of two F-35 “Adir” stealth fighter jets expected to land in Israel next week have been delayed by the United States Air Force in order to complete technical tests in one of the planes. afjag

While there were no problems discovered in the Israeli jets, “according to the decision of the US Air Force, the arrival of the two F-35 ‘Adir’ jets will be delayed for a short period of time in order to complete the technical inspection of aircraft,” the IDF said on Tuesday. Israel, which has already received five F-35 “Adir” jets now being tested by the IAF, was supposed to receive the two jets in the coming days and another two jets by November. afjag

The Jewish state is expected to announce initial operation capability of the first squadron by December 7. The delay will not affect the planned IOC declaration in December, the IDF said. While touted as the world’s most advanced jet, the F-35 is a controversial plane with a long series of failures and delays.

..... On Sunday, Israel completed the acquisition process of an additional 17 F-35 stealth jets whose delivery is to be made by December 2024, bring the total in the Israel Air Force to 50. The planes are being purchased as part of the military aid agreement with the United States. In the first deal, Israel purchased 19 F-35s at a cost of $125 million each, and a second agreement for 14 jets saw Jerusalem pay $112m. per plane. The cost of the plane is expected to drop to around $80m. in the coming years.

Built in the United States by Lockheed Martin, the Israeli F-35s have components built by Israeli companies, including Israel Aerospace Industries, which produced the outer wings, Elbit System-Cyclone, which built the center fuselage composite components and Elbit Systems Ltd., which manufactured the helmets worn by the pilots. The jets were designed to Israel’s specifications and will be embedded with Israeli-made electronic warfare pods as well as Israeli weaponry, all set to be installed once the planes are in Israel...
:)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 21:40
by ricnunes
gc wrote: Anyone knows if the ALR-94 and ASQ-239 system can collect and store raw data for analysis in the lab in a similar manner to traditional SIGINT platforms?


Actually I have the exact same question :wink:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 23:31
by popcorn
5Gens have been called 'antenna farms' so maybe they're hinting at some thing.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 21:57
by mas
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) has hurried to smooth any ruffled feathers. “Everything is fine, and there is no malfunctioning that is relevant to us,” a high-level IAF source told Al-Monitor, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “The manufacturer found a trivial mishap in the fuel pipe of model B planes, while our planes are model A. But the manufacturer wanted to be sure that the model A's don’t have the same problem, so he asked our approval to delay the arrival to next week. Of course, we agreed.”

http://tinyurl.com/y98ev6jo

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2017, 16:03
by sunstersun
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.810426

The A version, which is what the 50 F-35s Israel is committed to buying are, is not only the most expensive version of the aircraft but the least sophisticated; version B will have the ability to take off and land on shorter runways and even vertically.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.810426

The pure ignorance surrounding this program is insane.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2017, 16:12
by spazsinbad
I cannot read the article - only this part from the Headline & sub headline I guess:
F-35 Jets Deal: Did Israel Waste $200 Million by Buying Too Soon?
04 Sep 2017 Hagai Amit

"Critics of the follow-on order for 17 of the fighter jets, whose terms were completed last week, say the air force should have waited till the price fell and the bugs were fixed...."

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.810426


That may be a point however there is no time like the present as has been explained by a few Israeli Air Force generals. A link in the above article points to this one - which I can read - go figure.
Israel Takes Delivery of Three New F-35 Stealth Fighter Jets
23 Apr 2017 Gili Cohen

"...An IAF officer who was involved in the procurement process and who spoke on the condition of anonymity said that whereas in the first F-35 procurement deal, consisting of 33 planes, each plane cost around $100 million, in the deal signed in November for the purchase of 17 planes the per-unit cost dropped to around $85 million. The planes are purchased as part of the military aid agreement between Israel and the United States."

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.785194

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2017, 17:30
by pmi
The A version, which is what the 50 F-35s Israel is committed to buying are, is not only the most expensive version of the aircraft but the least sophisticated;


Where in the world did they come up with that idea?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Sep 2017, 19:38
by neptune
pmi wrote:
The A version, which is what the 50 F-35s Israel is committed to buying are, is not only the most expensive version of the aircraft but the least sophisticated;


Where in the world did they come up with that idea?


...consider the source!
:)

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 17:44
by mixelflick
OK so Israel is paying for additional F-35's. And what I got out of this thread was that they're acquiring them ASAP regardless of unit cost dropping as time goes on. The comment about seeing the entire middle east once airborne, their zeal about buying more/considering the B speaks volumes.

Lets be honest: Acquiring the F-35 means they now have the ability to hit Iran's nuclear sites. Sure, the range is a stretch but we've seen how they've done it before. To me, their enthusiasm for the says it all.

The US has a winner, and it won't be long before there will be thousands in service - leap frogging Russian 4++ designs in the process

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 15:42
by sunstersun

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 17:06
by wrightwing
sunstersun wrote:http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.810426

The A version, which is what the 50 F-35s Israel is committed to buying are, is not only the most expensive version of the aircraft but the least sophisticated; version B will have the ability to take off and land on shorter runways and even vertically.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.810426

The pure ignorance surrounding this program is insane.

The pure ignorance surrounding this post is insane. The A model is the least expensive (the C model is the most expensive), and all 3 variants have the exact same avionics/sensors/etc.....

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 17:30
by sunstersun
wrightwing wrote:
sunstersun wrote:http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.810426

The A version, which is what the 50 F-35s Israel is committed to buying are, is not only the most expensive version of the aircraft but the least sophisticated; version B will have the ability to take off and land on shorter runways and even vertically.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.810426

The pure ignorance surrounding this program is insane.

The pure ignorance surrounding this post is insane. The A model is the least expensive (the C model is the most expensive), and all 3 variants have the exact same avionics/sensors/etc.....


In fact the A model is the only plane with internal guns.

People say wikipedia shouldn't be a valid source, yet actual journalists would benefit from it.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 17:39
by SpudmanWP
sunstersun wrote:People say wikipedia shouldn't be a valid source, yet actual journalists would benefit from it.

Maybe if you had used it then you would have known that the F-35A is the least expensive of the three and that they all share the same avionics (ie "sophistication"). :doh:

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 18:31
by sunstersun
SpudmanWP wrote:
sunstersun wrote:People say wikipedia shouldn't be a valid source, yet actual journalists would benefit from it.

Maybe if you had used it then you would have known that the F-35A is the least expensive of the three and that they all share the same avionics (ie "sophistication"). :doh:


what i know that. it was the article who claimed the f-35A was the most expensive.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Sep 2017, 19:03
by SpudmanWP
OK.. The quotes and the way you referenced the article made it seem like you were agreeing with it.

Sorry for the confusion.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Sep 2017, 09:47
by fang
AS-6 & AS-7 landed yesterday at Nevatim AFB, Israel.
140FS got now 7 F-35i's and in the coming two months will get two more.
IOC probably in Dec. 2017

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 06:58
by spazsinbad
New additions boost Israel's F-35 fleet
15 Sep 2017 Arie Egozi

"Israel's latest pair of Lockheed Martin F-35s landed at Nevatim air base on 14 September. The arrivals brought the total number of "Adir" jets operated by the nation's air force to seven....

...By the end of this year, a further two F-35Is will join the air force's "Golden Eagle" squadron. The service plans to conduct an inspection in December, ahead of declaring initial operational capability (IOC) with the stealthy type.

A US delegation led by F-35 Joint Programme Office head Vice Adm Mathias Winter recently visited Israel and met with squadron personnel. The officials were briefed about the efforts the service is making to achieve its IOC goal, and the Israeli-made systems which are being incorporated into the type. They also visited the Israel Aerospace Industries facility which manufactures wings for the F-35 programme...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... et-441185/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 Sep 2017, 10:08
by spazsinbad
Complicated article best read at source. F-35s good to 50 but any more must be assessed using .... and political guidance.
Israeli lawmakers: F-35 get is fine, but must ‘meticulously assess’ follow-on buys
25 Sep 2017 Barbara Opall-Rome

"
TEL AVIV, Israel — Parliamentary findings released Monday on long-term planning within the Israeli military validated the nation’s need for 50 F-35 Adir fighter jets, yet urged a comprehensive review of alternatives — including drones and “other sources of precision fire” — before a government decision to purchase another 25 to 50 aircraft, as requested by the Israeli Air Force.

“The Adir is not just another platform, but brings new capabilities to the battlefield due to its stealth,” members of a parliamentary subcommittee found following a two-year review of the Israel Defense Forces‘ multiyear organization and spending plan.

In a section devoted to the Air Force, lawmakers noted that the F-35, “with all the existing limitations and against anti-aircraft missiles projected in the future, returns the Israel Air Force, through proper planning and with the recognition of its vulnerability points, to a capability for ‘stand-in’ operations.”

While lawmakers endorsed the government’s recent actions to acquire another 17 aircraft and thereby ensure two full stealth squadrons for the Air Force, they insisted follow-on purchases must be assessed in terms of how they contribute to national defense policy relative to alternatives....

...Findings on the F-35 were just a small part of a special report published Sept. 25 by the subcommittee, which falls under the purview of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee. The subcommittee is charged with oversight of defense policy and force structure...."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/global/midea ... w-on-buys/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 01:40
by sunstersun
I always thought Israel would be the best PR for the F-35.

They will bloody em first, rack up insane KDA like they did with the F-15 and declare IOC as a foreign nation first.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 07:27
by fang
The IDF PR published that two weeks ago one of the Israeli F-35i's been damaged by bird strike during landing.
The pilot is OK.
A team from LM will help to rebuilt the RAM coating.

F-35 Windscreen Birdstrike Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXsFmIqTHIE

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 09:03
by Dragon029
http://www.kan.org.il/Item/?itemId=23623

A mediocre Google translated version:

First publication: "Adir" plane was grounded because of a bird hit

The Air Force fears that the F-35 evader, considered the most advanced in the world, has lost its capabilities and is waiting for Lockheed Martin's opinion

Amir Bar Shalom

October 16, 2017 19:00
An Israeli stealth aircraft of the F-35 (Adir), considered to be the most advanced in the world, was hit two weeks ago during a bird-training exercise - this was reported for the first time in the program "Seven Current" here 11. There were no casualties in the incident and the pilot managed to land the The plane is safe. However, the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity - if at all.

The Air Force fears that despite the planned re-use of the evaporator, it is not clear whether it will retain its evasive ability. The IDF confirmed the details and said that at no stage was life threatening to the pilot and are now awaiting the opinion of Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the plane, regarding the extent of the damage caused to it.

Today, the Air Force has seven huge planes, each costing $ 110 million. In August, a deal was completed for the purchase of another 17 such aircraft for the Israeli Air Force, and in total, 50 such aircraft will be served in two pilots. The total amount of the deal to purchase the 50 aircraft is estimated at seven billion dollars.

The IDF Spokesperson's Office stated: "These allegations are incorrect. In preparation for a routine landing of the F-35, two injuries were found in the fuselage following a collision with the birds. The plane made a normal landing at the base and was sent to the usual maintenance treatment following such injuries. The plane will be used and will return for flight in the coming days. "

"In terms of damage to a bird, there is no difference between hitting 35 or any other aircraft - the risk is the same risk," said Neri Yarkoni, a reserve colonel in the reserves. "What you have to do is simply not meet them, you can keep them away from the takeoff and landings, and the paths of bird migration are pretty constant," he said


I'm assuming the "two injuries" is meant to translate into two impact marks.

Edit:

According to a guy on Reddit, there's been at least 2 bird strikes already / prior to this, with both instances having a bird bounce off the canopy, without causing damage (as the above PDF and video would have us expect).

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 17:38
by Dragon029
And cue conspiracy theories because it's Israel:

https://southfront.org/israel-hiding-st ... e-reports/

ISRAEL IS HIDING THAT ITS STATE-OF-ART F-35 WARPLANE WAS HIT BY SYRIAN S-200 MISSILE – REPORTS

It looks that the Israeli “demonstration of power” during the recent visit of Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has turned into a total failure.

On October 16, Shoigu arrived Israel for meetings with Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The sides were reportedly set to discuss the situation in the region, including Syria, the fight against terrorism as well as military and technical cooperation.

At the same day, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) claimed that its warplanes targeted an anti-aircraft battery of the Syrian Air Defense Forces that had launched a missile at Israeli aircraft flying over Lebanon.

16 Oct
IDF ✔ @IDFSpokesperson
Earlier today,an anti-aircraft missile was launched from Syria towards IDF aircraft during a routine flight over Lebanon. No hits confirmed

IDF ✔@IDFSpokesperson
In response, IDF aircraft targeted the anti-aircraft battery in Syria.
19:45 - 16 Oct 2017
12 12 Replies 88 88 Retweets 149 149 likes


The IDF added that the Syrian missile didn’t hit any Israeli aircraft.

IDF ✔@IDFSpokesperson
Earlier today,an anti-aircraft missile was launched from Syria towards IDF aircraft during a routine flight over Lebanon. No hits confirmed
19:37 - 16 Oct 2017


“The army targeted the battery with four bombs and, according to the IDF, the battery was damaged to the extent it was no longer operational. The army said the battery targeted was the same that fired at Israeli jets last March, prompting Israel make use of its Arrow anti-missile system for the first time,” the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on the issue.

The Syrian military confirmed the Israeli strikes and said that they caused “material damage.”

It’s interesting to note that, according to the Syrian Defense Ministry statement, Israeli warplanes violated Syria’s airspace on the border with Lebanon in Baalbek area. The incident took place at 8:51 am local time.

Could the Israeli Air Force intentionally provoke the reaction from the Syrian military in order to justify the strike on the Syrian air defense battery?

Furthermore, some pro-Israeli experts and media activists clearly linked the incident with the visit of the Russian defense minister to Tel Aviv saying that it was a nice demonstration of power to the Russian-Iranian-Syrian alliance.

However, somesing went wrong.

According to the available information, the Syrian Defense Forces used a S-200 missile against the Israeli warplane. This Soviet-made missile is the most advanced long range anti-aircraft system opearated by the Syrian military. Even in this case, it’s old-fashioned in terms of the modern warfare.

Despite this, the Syrian Defense Ministry said in its statement that government forces responded to the violation of the airspace and “directly hit one of the jets, forcing [Israeli aircraft] to retreat.” This statement contradicts to the Israeli claim that “no hit” was confirmed.

Few hours after the missile incident with Syria, the Israeli media reported that the Israeli Air Force’s F-35 stealth multirole fighter went unserviceable as a result of an alleged bird collision during a training flight.

The incident allegedly took place “two weeks ago” but was publicly reported only on October 16. However, Israeli sources were not able to show a photo of the F-35 warplane after the “bird collision”.

Furthermore, it is not clear if the F-35 can become operational again because its stealth coating was damaged. Thus, according to the Israeli version, the warplane reportedly became no longer operational after the bird collision despite the fact that the F-35 earlier passed the bird strike sertification with great results (official info here). The F-35 is the the world’s most expensive warplane. The price of developing the F-35 is now about $406.5 billion.

Israel is actively buying the world’s self-proclaimed most advanced fighter paying about $100 million for each plane.

So what did really hit the F-35?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 18:04
by neurotech
Dragon029 wrote:And cue conspiracy theories because it's Israel:

Super Hornets have been damaged by flightline mishaps and bird strikes, resulting in the jet being no longer mission capable due to radar signature issues. In some cases the jets had to be returned to depot for somewhat lengthy and costly repairs. I can't imagine the F-35 being any different. If a bird hit certain parts of the aircraft, getting spare panels may be difficult.

Also, the Israeli F-35s have been seen flying with external stores and pylons, so they wouldn't be "Stealth" in that configuration.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 20:49
by krorvik
From southfront's about page:

"CNN’s fake newscast from the First Gulf War"

"The BBC has also been caught staging fake news about Syria to justify military intervention"

"Everybody can become a volunteer in our project and share their own story and perspective with the world."

"common people with inquisitive minds are able to produce balanced content in a modern information-oriented society."

Mhm.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2017, 22:38
by vanshilar
Hmm. Both Israel and Syria have trustworthy news sources. The only logical explanation is that Syrian S-200 systems fire birds instead of missiles and one of them happen to hit an Israeli F-35 while landing. The bird's feathers got stuck to the RAM coating and now they're trying to figure out how to scrape it off without damaging the RAM.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 02:26
by blindpilot
Dragon029 wrote:And cue conspiracy theories because it's Israel:

https://southfront.org/israel-hiding-st ... e-reports/

...


SouthFront ? !!!! We're quoting SouthFront now? !!!

from their own web page- About:
" SouthFront aims to reveal the real events occurring in the world; to show you what is hidden behind the veil of disinformation and nuanced propaganda. Everybody can become a volunteer in our project and share their own story and perspective with the world... mainstream media that attempts to hide the real truth... They create a false image ...engineer the consent of people... by controlling the narrative of events. ...

Like in the ground-breaking movie, SouthFront offers you the choice of taking the “red pill”.


Oooooh .... kay! Step away from the keyboard ...

:o :o
MHO
BP

PS : Wait! wait I just saw a story in the Inquirer!! but it's hidden on the last page right after the three headed alien story...

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 03:17
by Dragon029
As I said; "cue conspiracy theories" - I quoted the article so that you all didn't have to give them click revenue and I only posted the article because it's exploded somewhat (someone even edited the Wikipedia page of the SA-5 to claim that it was "unilaterally confirmed" that it hit an F-35 :roll: ; I'm in the process of repairing that entry).

I will say though, I am a little confused now, because a Times of Israel article has just come out and it claims that the birdstrike (with 2 storks apparently) occurred Tuesday, rather than 2 weeks ago. I'm assuming that's misreporting on the original kan.org.il article.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 04:16
by tincansailor
Hard to imagine the damage from a SAM hit could be passed off as a bird strike. Why would an F-35I operating over Lebanon be carrying external ordnance? If true it was an act of tactical arrogance on the part of Israel. It wouldn't be the first time overconfidence has led the Israel military to make a major blunder. If it was a bird strike this is the downside of a military policy of keeping everything secret. With no real information everything feeds the rumor mill. Ether way this isn't good publicity for the F-35.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 04:51
by blindpilot
Dragon029 wrote:As I said; "cue conspiracy theories" - I quoted the article so that you all didn't have to give them click revenue and I only posted the article because it's exploded somewhat (someone even edited the Wikipedia page of the SA-5 to claim that it was "unilaterally confirmed" that it hit an F-35 :roll: ; I'm in the process of repairing that entry).

I will say though, I am a little confused now, because a Times of Israel article has just come out and it claims that the birdstrike (with 2 storks apparently) occurred Tuesday, rather than 2 weeks ago. I'm assuming that's misreporting on the original kan.org.il article.


Good catch on the Wiki page Dragon. I see the "event" page has been deleted. Hope you get the entry dumped.
Unbelievable how super market tabloids have taken over as "sources." We may be in worse trouble than we've imagined. Journalism may be at the edge of death.

Thanks for the heads up. Apologies for the snark.

BP

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 07:15
by optimist
Who would believe that Israel sent even a manned jet, into Lebanese airspace on a recognisance mission?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 07:40
by krorvik
blindpilot wrote:SouthFront ? !!!! We're quoting SouthFront now? !!!


Considered to be little else than a russian propaganda-channel, aimed at defense-savvy readers.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2017, 09:05
by tincansailor
optimist wrote:Who would believe that Israel sent even a manned jet, into Lebanese airspace on a recognisance mission?



Good point. Especially sending a stealth fighter with external bombs on it, so the enemy can track it? Sort of defeats the whole idea of using stealth aircraft in high threat environments? You don't put bombs, and fuel tanks under the wings till after you destroy the IADS, not before. If it's true, the nicest thing you can call it is poor tactics. If your not being kind you can call it stupid.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 13:51
by fang
Today (Dec 6th, 2017) Israeli Air Force F-35i Adir declared operational.
Meaning all the 9 Adirs of 140FS can be part of the IAF operational activity anywhere anytime.
Israel is the second country after US to declare the F-35 operational, next year Israel will get another 6 A/C.
http://www.iaf.org.il/4467-49791-en/IAF.aspx

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 14:00
by hythelday
fang wrote:Today (Dec 6th, 2017) Israeli Air Force F-35i Adir declared operational.
Meaning all the 9 Adirs of 140FS can be part of the IAF operational activity anywhere anytime.
Israel is the second country after US to declare the F-35 operational, next year Israel will get another 6 A/C.
http://www.iaf.org.il/4467-49791-en/IAF.aspx


In case anyone missex it, two things happened during past 7 days:

1) Houthis launched Iranian supplied land based cruise missile at UAE
2) Israel bombed Iranian/Hezbollah targets in the vicinity of Damascus on 1st, 3rd and 4th of December.

Which probably means next time you hear something "unexpectedly" exploding in Syria there will be F-35s involved, either directly or as eyes in the sky.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 17:41
by spazsinbad
Israel declares F-35s ready for operations
06 Dec 2017 Barbara Opall-Rome

"...In a recent interview, retired Maj. Gen. Ido Nehushtan, the former Israeli Air Force commander who signed off on the decision to procure the F-35, told this reporter that the fifth-generation fighter offers “unique strategic advantage here in this neighborhood, both in terms of deterrence and also operational capabilities.”

According to Nehushtan, the service is working methodically and capably to integrate “unique Israeli capabilities” into the new F-35 force and to integrate the new fighters into a network that encompasses the rest of Israel’s combat air power.

“We certainly will see the benefits of having the unique virtues of these F-35 capabilities in the Middle East,” he said. “This know-how is developing, and I’m sure the IAF will know how best to utilize the F-35 and integrate it into the greater IAF and to apply these holistic capabilities to the challenges Israel faces.”

When asked whether the F-35 would play a lead role in a possible strike on Iran, the former Air Force commander replied: “If or when the state of Israel determines the need to exercise its sovereign right to self-defense, the F-35 absolutely will be a key player.”

He noted, however, that given Iran’s apparent compliance with the 2015 nuclear deal between world powers and Tehran, he doesn’t foresee near-term use of military force. “The agreement actually put Iran at some distance away [from a nuclear bomb] in the short term. But in the long term, it certainly has holes. Nevertheless, we’re now living in an international context of the agreement. So I don’t see, in that context, any attack coming soon.”

Israel has contracted for 50 F-35s, and long-term plans envision another 25 aircraft later in the coming decade."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/12 ... perations/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 00:44
by spazsinbad
Israel declares its F-35I fleet combat-ready
07 Dec 2017 Arie Egozi

"The Israeli air force on 6 December declared its Lockheed Martin F-35I "Adir" combat aircraft as having achieved initial operational capability. Air force commander Maj Gen Amikam Norkin confirmed the milestone involving the stealthy type, nine of which are assigned to its 140th "Golden Eagle" squadron at Nevatim air base. The declaration followed an inspection performed on five of the unit's jets, after which the service says "the aircraft was found fit for operational activity"....

...[Lt Col Yotam] notes: "We still have tests, development of combat doctrines and extensive learning before us."...

...Israel has asked the USA to allow it to integrate further Israeli-developed weapons and electronic warfare systems on its Adir fleet. The nation is already working to add Rafael's Python 5 and Derby air-to-air missiles to the aircraft, along with the company's Litening 5 targeting pod. Israeli sources say the new request is being evaluated "by the highest echelons", and would require access to the "heart" of the stealth fighter's software.

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... dy-443979/

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 05:22
by steve2267
What does Litening 5 do that Lightning EOTS does not do?

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 08:19
by SpudmanWP
Pay money to an Israeli company.

More than likely what we will see is an Advanced EOTS based on the Lightning5.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 09:42
by hornetfinn
SpudmanWP wrote:Pay money to an Israeli company.

More than likely what we will see is an Advanced EOTS based on the Lightning5.


Very true. It seems like Litening 5 is very much like what Advanced EOTS is going to be. It has these over current EOTS:

- SWIR
- Color CCD-TV (visible light camera for daylight use)
- It might also have somewhat larger sensor for improved range (not certain, but possible)

First two would improve performance against ground targets, especially for recognition and identification. SWIR and color CCD-TV have higher resolution and contrast than MWIR camera and have some other advantages like being able to see through glass (might be useful in urban environment). I'd say that if all of these can be fuzed using sensor fusion techniques, the end result would be very good especially for target recogniton and identification. For detecting regular military targets the improvement would not be that big though since MWIR is generally the best optical system for that. But naturally recognition and identification are extremely important and improving performance there will be big thing.

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 17:40
by neptune
SpudmanWP wrote:Pay money to an Israeli company.

More than likely what we will see is an Advanced EOTS based on the Lightning5.


....question "NOT" about Advanced EOTS!; earlier in the JSF program (3-5 yrs.) an improvement was made in the EOTS and was cutin to the production line per my memory. I can't "search" this event and less memory about the "improvement", any link to this earlier event would be appreciated.

Now back to the program, Advanced EOTS Block 4.x!

Thanks,
Neptune

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 18:10
by SpudmanWP
Without an idea of what item was changed... No clue.

Here is a doc from 2015 that shows a lot it internal views of the EOTS and later in the doc also goes into some updates that have been done to EOTS.

F-35_Lightning_II_EOTS.pdf
(1.91 MiB) Downloaded 43 times

Re: Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 16:35
by nutshell
SpudmanWP wrote:Pay money to an Israeli company.

More than likely what we will see is an Advanced EOTS based on the Lightning5.


That's a reason and it's understandable.

Also, 100% proprietary coding.

Honestly speaking, the Israeli were smart about that.