Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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weasel1962

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 11:09

Yah, what do these Israelis know...compared to corsair1963.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 11:22

weasel1962 wrote:Yah, what do these Israelis know...compared to corsair1963.



I know the F-35 is vastly more capable than any 4th Generation Fighter including the F-15EX/IA.


In addition we know the USAF didn't want the F-15EX. Yet, it's going to get it. :?


My point here is the same is true of the IDF/AF with the F-15IA....


Hell, same argument we heard back in the early 1980's. With people making a case for Newer Versions of the F-4 over the F-15 and F-16....

:doh:
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fang

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 12:57

Corsair1963 wrote:
fang wrote:It is a poor choice as the F-35 is vastly more capable and even cheaper!
Let's see it will be a few years before these new F-15EX/IA's would arrive. (2025+) When, they do they would have service life of 20-30 years. So, you think they will be a viable platform in the year 2045 or 2055!
Now if you want a stop-gap for a decade. Plenty, of second hand Eagles on the market. Which, Israel could easily upgrade....(not that either is a good option)

It's more complex than F-15IA vs F-35i.
The IAF want to buy a squadron of a brand new F-15IA but also to upgrade the existing F-15i squadron to IA standart.
On the same process to retire the old F-16C/F-15C and to remain with dual seater jets only which can use it's smart weapon.
It's a big varity of smart weapon which fit the dual seater F-15/F-16 but most of it does'nt fit the F-35i yet.
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fang

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 13:02

Corsair1963 wrote:It is a poor choice as the F-35 is vastly more capable and even cheaper!
Let's see it will be a few years before these new F-15EX/IA's would arrive. (2025+) When, they do they would have service life of 20-30 years. So, you think they will be a viable platform in the year 2045 or 2055!
Now if you want a stop-gap for a decade. Plenty, of second hand Eagles on the market. Which, Israel could easily upgrade....(not that either is a good option)

It's more complex than F-15IA vs F-35i.
The IAF want to buy a squadron of a brand new F-15IA but also to upgrade the existing F-15i squadron to IA standart.
On the same process to retire the old F-16C/F-15C and to remain with dual seater jets only which can use it's smart weapon.
It's a big varity of smart weapon which fit the dual seater F-15/F-16 but most of it does'nt fit the F-35i yet.
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marsavian

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 13:21

Corsair1963 wrote:This has been expected for sometime now...

Clearly, buying a squadron of F-15's under pressure from Washington. Just like the USAF....


Yet reports from the actual area say the only pressure was to actually buy the extra F-35 ! What do they know compared to you ?

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,734 ... 30,00.html
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marsavian

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Unread post20 Feb 2020, 13:27

Corsair1963 wrote:
optimist wrote:Well the f-15 carries a whopping 23000 lb. While the F-35 carries a measly 18000+lb.

It might just be political :doh:


In the "Real World" the F-15EX never carries 23,000 lbs. Just like it "NEVER" fly's at Mach 2.5. Honestly, how many times do we have to discuss this...


It's quite easy for the F-15EX to carry 23,000lb, just don't carry any external fuel and rely only on internal + CFT fuel which is still 23,000lb, both more than the F-35. It seems your F-15E 'real world' began and ended with Desert Storm payloads but Israel doesn't need EFTs to bomb Lebanon, Gaza or Syria, they are all on their doorstep. It obviously kills you when something other than F-35 gets bought, do you lose commission ? ;)
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steve2267

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Unread post25 Feb 2020, 18:42

The Dutch gave a peak into the prowess of the Lightning when a pair of stubbies escorted four Vipers against eight defending Vipers. The defenders reportedly never saw the Lightnings, NOR the attacking F-16's. Plus the Lightnings used the Slammers from F-16's they were escorting to down the defending Vipers. This example describes the so-called wormole effect or something like that.

I have no idea the Israeli Air Force requirements. I hope they plan well, and purchase platforms and weapons to achieve a desired effect. On the other hand, maintaining a robust, local defense industrial base may come in to play. Maintaining that expertise is important.

But perhaps the Israelis figure they can defeat Natanz, and perhaps Fordow (or at least entomb Fordow by destroying all entrances) with GBU-28's. Lightnings escorting F-15's carrying GBU-28's gives them that capability now, not in 4-5 years when the GBU-28 may be cleared on the F-35I. Perhaps those clever Israeli's have modified the GBU-28, or developed their own GBU-28-like bomb, or something better.

The Israeli's are big boys playing by big boy rules. I have a sneaking suspicion they know what they are doing.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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