Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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marauder2048

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Unread post31 Jan 2018, 03:43

stevedapirate wrote:I The F-15 production line is about to shut down for lack of orders, so any that are received will go into production almost immediately.


Has Boeing really made that much of a dent in the combined Saudi and Qatari order?
The new-build Saudi aircraft just started delivering at the end of 2016 and while
I know deliveries can lag production Boeing delivered 16 total F-15s in 2017.
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neptune

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Unread post31 Jan 2018, 09:05

F-15D 92 built in 1979–85

US ANG squadrons are:
ACC 114th FS ANG, Or F-15C/D
ACC 122d FS ANG, La F-15C/D
ACC 123d FS ANG, Or F-15C/D
ACC 131st FS ANG, Ma F-15C/D
ACC 159th FS ANG, Fl F-15C/D
ACC 194th FS ANG, Ca F-15C/D



- "Known as the Baz 2000 program, this reworking of the best of the IAF’s Baz fleet would give F-15A/B/C/D aircraft a common cockpit configuration,"
- "...Many of the upgrades were ported over from the F-15I, "
- "Because the Baz still has similar range as its more contemporary successors, the F-15I ..., it can work as a forward deployed networking and command and control node, absorbing the battle picture via data-link from fighters within its line of sight and then beaming this information up to a satellite, which then beams it back down to Israeli commanders hundreds, or even thousands of miles away. This can also go in the opposite direction, with new orders, alerts of pop-up air defenses, and other updates being sent from behind friendly lines or from orbiting strategic intelligence aircraft to the F-15D Baz. From here, the Baz can disperse this information to the rest of the non-satellite communications equipped strike package."
- "This high bandwidth satellite communications modification can be seen on F-15Ds packing a large bulbous R2-D2 like satellite communications dome just behind the jet's environmental cooling system vent, located on the jet’s forward spine..."
Isarael F-15D Baz 2018.jpg


....any one care to bet it has integrated MADL for data/ comm with the F-35I Adir!
:wink: :)
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zerion

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Unread post31 Jan 2018, 18:54

No, Israel's Interest In Buying New F-15s Isn't A Referendum On The F-35

The F-15 provides unique capabilities to the IAF, and considering production could end in the coming decade, buying more F-15s now may be a necessity.

BY TYLER ROGOWAYJANUARY 31, 2018

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18 ... n-the-f-35
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citanon

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 08:20

Israeli F35s about to see action for reals?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43014081
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tsl256

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 08:32

Looks like Israel needs to start putting their F-35s to good use, to avoid situations like this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaret ... -1.5806508

This would have ended differently, had Israel used F-35s. Thank goodness the pilots where able to eject and survive.
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sunstersun

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Unread post10 Feb 2018, 21:54

tsl256 wrote:Looks like Israel needs to start putting their F-35s to good use, to avoid situations like this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaret ... -1.5806508

This would have ended differently, had Israel used F-35s. Thank goodness the pilots where able to eject and survive.


Pilot is in critical condition. I hope he survives.
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maus92

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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 16:09

tsl256 wrote:Looks like Israel needs to start putting their F-35s to good use, to avoid situations like this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaret ... -1.5806508

This would have ended differently, had Israel used F-35s. Thank goodness the pilots where able to eject and survive.


Indicates that the Israelis were either surprised, or the F-35I is not actually operational / cannot deploy appropriate weps for the mission.
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botsing

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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 17:05

maus92 wrote:Indicates that the Israelis were either surprised, or the F-35I is not actually operational / cannot deploy appropriate weps for the mission.

Or it indicates that you are pretty bad with the cherry-picking and confirmation bias. ;)

You do not know what the F-35's were doing at that moment, they could be doing anything between staying in their shelters to C4ISR. So how can you know if these "indications" of yours, that so lovingly suits your mindset, are actually viable?
"Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know"
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ricnunes

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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 17:29

botsing wrote:
maus92 wrote:Indicates that the Israelis were either surprised, or the F-35I is not actually operational / cannot deploy appropriate weps for the mission.

Or it indicates that you are pretty bad with the cherry-picking and confirmation bias. ;)

You do not know what the F-35's were doing at that moment, they could be doing anything between staying in their shelters to C4ISR. So how can you know if these "indications" of yours, that so lovingly suits your mindset, are actually viable?


DITTO!

I fell like arguing with maus92 is like playing "whack-a-mole". We never know when he pops up but when he does his actions (or in this case his arguments/ramblings) are always the same :roll:
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quicksilver

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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 17:46

maus92 wrote:
tsl256 wrote:Looks like Israel needs to start putting their F-35s to good use, to avoid situations like this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaret ... -1.5806508

This would have ended differently, had Israel used F-35s. Thank goodness the pilots where able to eject and survive.


Indicates that the Israelis were either surprised, or the F-35I is not actually operational / cannot deploy appropriate weps for the mission.


Whether of not they were surprised, of course, is a matter of conjecture. But living in a part of the world where the fight is "just down the block" the IAF are anything but complacent about the threat. The broader implications of the shoot-down are for "all non-5th Gen aircraft", which includes super duper F-15s and F-18s and the potential sales of such things anywhere in the world.
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tsl256

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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 20:10

quicksilver wrote:
maus92 wrote:
tsl256 wrote:Looks like Israel needs to start putting their F-35s to good use, to avoid situations like this.

<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/israel-news/red-alert-sirens-sound-heavy-aerial-activity-in-northern-israel-1.5806508</span>

This would have ended differently, had Israel used F-35s. Thank goodness the pilots where able to eject and survive.


Indicates that the Israelis were either surprised, or the F-35I is not actually operational / cannot deploy appropriate weps for the mission.


Whether of not they were surprised, of course, is a matter of conjecture. But living in a part of the world where the fight is "just down the block" the IAF are anything but complacent about the threat. The broader implications of the shoot-down are for "all non-5th Gen aircraft", which includes super duper F-15s and F-18s and the potential sales of such things anywhere in the world.


This latest shoot down may tip the scales in favor of buying more F-35s, rather than heavily upgraded F-15s for the IAF.
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131stfwfan

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Unread post11 Feb 2018, 20:39

marauder2048 wrote:
stevedapirate wrote:I The F-15 production line is about to shut down for lack of orders, so any that are received will go into production almost immediately.


Has Boeing really made that much of a dent in the combined Saudi and Qatari order?
The new-build Saudi aircraft just started delivering at the end of 2016 and while
I know deliveries can lag production Boeing delivered 16 total F-15s in 2017.


Yes, they have. The F-15SA went into production a year before the contract was signed with the first examples rolling off the line in Q2 2012. They have about 20 F-15SA's left to build, plus 36 more for Qatar which will extend the line until Q3 2022. 2017's production rate was the highest since 1999 for the program.

Delivery wise, they still have 55+ left to ferry over to Saudi, so any Isreali order would be in tandem with the others at this point. There are also discussions for additional F-15SA aircraft, but Airbus has yet to solidify their end at that for more Typhoon's. I would think a 25 aircraft order from the IAF would be the final examples. Still 50+ years of continuous production (- FY 2001) is nothing to sneeze at.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post12 Feb 2018, 04:10

tsl256 wrote:
This latest shoot down may tip the scales in favor of buying more F-35s, rather than heavily upgraded F-15s for the IAF.


Honestly, I've seen nothing that makes me believe that Israel is in fact interested in more New F-15's. :doh:
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marauder2048

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Unread post12 Feb 2018, 10:04

131stfwfan wrote:Yes, they have. The F-15SA went into production a year before the contract was signed with the first examples rolling off the line in Q2 2012. They have about 20 F-15SA's left to build, plus 36 more for Qatar which will extend the line until Q3 2022. 2017's production rate was the highest since 1999 for the program.


I'm extremely grateful for the info.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post14 Feb 2018, 03:27

So many questions pondered by the reporter however to my mind the credible answer is in the last paragraphs below.
Syrian downing of F-16I begs question: Why didn’t Israel deploy F-35s?
13 Feb 2018 Barbara Opall-Rome

"TEL AVIV, Israel — As the Israeli Air Force continues to investigate the Feb. 10 loss of an F-16I to Syrian anti-aircraft fire, experts here are privately questioning why, given the operational circumstances that denied Israel the element of strategic surprise, it did not opt to deploy its newest front-line fighter: the stealthy F-35I.

In early December, the Air Force declared initial operational capability of the nine F-35s now in its possession. And from the aerial activity reported by residents near its home base at Nevatim, southern Israel, the aircraft are accruing significant flight time....

...The official answer to all these questions, according to Israel Defense Forces spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus, is: “No comment.”...

...Retired Israeli Air Force Brig. Gen. Abraham Assael, IAF Reserve Brig. Gen. Abraham Assael, CEO of the Fisher Institute for Air and Space Strategic Studies, was the only officer who agreed to be identified by name. According to the former fighter pilot, the Air Force had no reason to risk “strategic assets” against what was termed a “strategically insignificant” target. “In the past, everything went very well, so why jeopardize something so valuable and precious in an operation that used to entail no significant obstacles?” Assael said.

He cited the small number of F-35s in Israel’s possession and the relatively meager operational experience accrued on the aircraft as reasons for not including them in the Feb. 10 strike operations. “If they thought that the targets were so strategically important, I’m sure they’d consider using them. But they weren’t. So why risk use of the F-35s at such an early point in their operational maturity?” “Glitches and mishaps happen,” he added. “So now they’re investigating, and it could be one of the lessons will be that in this new strategic environment, we’ll see the F-35 called into action.”"

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/mide ... loy-f-35s/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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