Israel Pays for Additional F-35s

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SpudmanWP

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Unread post13 Sep 2017, 19:03

OK.. The quotes and the way you referenced the article made it seem like you were agreeing with it.

Sorry for the confusion.
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fang

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Unread post15 Sep 2017, 09:47

AS-6 & AS-7 landed yesterday at Nevatim AFB, Israel.
140FS got now 7 F-35i's and in the coming two months will get two more.
IOC probably in Dec. 2017
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AS-6 arriving Nevatim AFB.jpg
IAF roundel on AS-7.jpg
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Unread post16 Sep 2017, 06:58

New additions boost Israel's F-35 fleet
15 Sep 2017 Arie Egozi

"Israel's latest pair of Lockheed Martin F-35s landed at Nevatim air base on 14 September. The arrivals brought the total number of "Adir" jets operated by the nation's air force to seven....

...By the end of this year, a further two F-35Is will join the air force's "Golden Eagle" squadron. The service plans to conduct an inspection in December, ahead of declaring initial operational capability (IOC) with the stealthy type.

A US delegation led by F-35 Joint Programme Office head Vice Adm Mathias Winter recently visited Israel and met with squadron personnel. The officials were briefed about the efforts the service is making to achieve its IOC goal, and the Israeli-made systems which are being incorporated into the type. They also visited the Israel Aerospace Industries facility which manufactures wings for the F-35 programme...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... et-441185/
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Unread post26 Sep 2017, 10:08

Complicated article best read at source. F-35s good to 50 but any more must be assessed using .... and political guidance.
Israeli lawmakers: F-35 get is fine, but must ‘meticulously assess’ follow-on buys
25 Sep 2017 Barbara Opall-Rome

"
TEL AVIV, Israel — Parliamentary findings released Monday on long-term planning within the Israeli military validated the nation’s need for 50 F-35 Adir fighter jets, yet urged a comprehensive review of alternatives — including drones and “other sources of precision fire” — before a government decision to purchase another 25 to 50 aircraft, as requested by the Israeli Air Force.

“The Adir is not just another platform, but brings new capabilities to the battlefield due to its stealth,” members of a parliamentary subcommittee found following a two-year review of the Israel Defense Forces‘ multiyear organization and spending plan.

In a section devoted to the Air Force, lawmakers noted that the F-35, “with all the existing limitations and against anti-aircraft missiles projected in the future, returns the Israel Air Force, through proper planning and with the recognition of its vulnerability points, to a capability for ‘stand-in’ operations.”

While lawmakers endorsed the government’s recent actions to acquire another 17 aircraft and thereby ensure two full stealth squadrons for the Air Force, they insisted follow-on purchases must be assessed in terms of how they contribute to national defense policy relative to alternatives....

...Findings on the F-35 were just a small part of a special report published Sept. 25 by the subcommittee, which falls under the purview of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee. The subcommittee is charged with oversight of defense policy and force structure...."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/global/midea ... w-on-buys/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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sunstersun

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Unread post06 Oct 2017, 01:40

I always thought Israel would be the best PR for the F-35.

They will bloody em first, rack up insane KDA like they did with the F-15 and declare IOC as a foreign nation first.
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Unread post17 Oct 2017, 07:27

The IDF PR published that two weeks ago one of the Israeli F-35i's been damaged by bird strike during landing.
The pilot is OK.
A team from LM will help to rebuilt the RAM coating.

F-35 Windscreen Birdstrike Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXsFmIqTHIE
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JSF Brief 20091201 - ASIP Conf - Birdstrike Impact Studies.pdf
(2.03 MiB) Downloaded 165 times
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Dragon029

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Unread post17 Oct 2017, 09:03

http://www.kan.org.il/Item/?itemId=23623

A mediocre Google translated version:

First publication: "Adir" plane was grounded because of a bird hit

The Air Force fears that the F-35 evader, considered the most advanced in the world, has lost its capabilities and is waiting for Lockheed Martin's opinion

Amir Bar Shalom

October 16, 2017 19:00
An Israeli stealth aircraft of the F-35 (Adir), considered to be the most advanced in the world, was hit two weeks ago during a bird-training exercise - this was reported for the first time in the program "Seven Current" here 11. There were no casualties in the incident and the pilot managed to land the The plane is safe. However, the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity - if at all.

The Air Force fears that despite the planned re-use of the evaporator, it is not clear whether it will retain its evasive ability. The IDF confirmed the details and said that at no stage was life threatening to the pilot and are now awaiting the opinion of Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the plane, regarding the extent of the damage caused to it.

Today, the Air Force has seven huge planes, each costing $ 110 million. In August, a deal was completed for the purchase of another 17 such aircraft for the Israeli Air Force, and in total, 50 such aircraft will be served in two pilots. The total amount of the deal to purchase the 50 aircraft is estimated at seven billion dollars.

The IDF Spokesperson's Office stated: "These allegations are incorrect. In preparation for a routine landing of the F-35, two injuries were found in the fuselage following a collision with the birds. The plane made a normal landing at the base and was sent to the usual maintenance treatment following such injuries. The plane will be used and will return for flight in the coming days. "

"In terms of damage to a bird, there is no difference between hitting 35 or any other aircraft - the risk is the same risk," said Neri Yarkoni, a reserve colonel in the reserves. "What you have to do is simply not meet them, you can keep them away from the takeoff and landings, and the paths of bird migration are pretty constant," he said


I'm assuming the "two injuries" is meant to translate into two impact marks.

Edit:

According to a guy on Reddit, there's been at least 2 bird strikes already / prior to this, with both instances having a bird bounce off the canopy, without causing damage (as the above PDF and video would have us expect).
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Unread post17 Oct 2017, 17:38

And cue conspiracy theories because it's Israel:

https://southfront.org/israel-hiding-st ... e-reports/

ISRAEL IS HIDING THAT ITS STATE-OF-ART F-35 WARPLANE WAS HIT BY SYRIAN S-200 MISSILE – REPORTS

It looks that the Israeli “demonstration of power” during the recent visit of Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has turned into a total failure.

On October 16, Shoigu arrived Israel for meetings with Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The sides were reportedly set to discuss the situation in the region, including Syria, the fight against terrorism as well as military and technical cooperation.

At the same day, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) claimed that its warplanes targeted an anti-aircraft battery of the Syrian Air Defense Forces that had launched a missile at Israeli aircraft flying over Lebanon.

16 Oct
IDF ✔ @IDFSpokesperson
Earlier today,an anti-aircraft missile was launched from Syria towards IDF aircraft during a routine flight over Lebanon. No hits confirmed

IDF ✔@IDFSpokesperson
In response, IDF aircraft targeted the anti-aircraft battery in Syria.
19:45 - 16 Oct 2017
12 12 Replies 88 88 Retweets 149 149 likes


The IDF added that the Syrian missile didn’t hit any Israeli aircraft.

IDF ✔@IDFSpokesperson
Earlier today,an anti-aircraft missile was launched from Syria towards IDF aircraft during a routine flight over Lebanon. No hits confirmed
19:37 - 16 Oct 2017


“The army targeted the battery with four bombs and, according to the IDF, the battery was damaged to the extent it was no longer operational. The army said the battery targeted was the same that fired at Israeli jets last March, prompting Israel make use of its Arrow anti-missile system for the first time,” the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on the issue.

The Syrian military confirmed the Israeli strikes and said that they caused “material damage.”

It’s interesting to note that, according to the Syrian Defense Ministry statement, Israeli warplanes violated Syria’s airspace on the border with Lebanon in Baalbek area. The incident took place at 8:51 am local time.

Could the Israeli Air Force intentionally provoke the reaction from the Syrian military in order to justify the strike on the Syrian air defense battery?

Furthermore, some pro-Israeli experts and media activists clearly linked the incident with the visit of the Russian defense minister to Tel Aviv saying that it was a nice demonstration of power to the Russian-Iranian-Syrian alliance.

However, somesing went wrong.

According to the available information, the Syrian Defense Forces used a S-200 missile against the Israeli warplane. This Soviet-made missile is the most advanced long range anti-aircraft system opearated by the Syrian military. Even in this case, it’s old-fashioned in terms of the modern warfare.

Despite this, the Syrian Defense Ministry said in its statement that government forces responded to the violation of the airspace and “directly hit one of the jets, forcing [Israeli aircraft] to retreat.” This statement contradicts to the Israeli claim that “no hit” was confirmed.

Few hours after the missile incident with Syria, the Israeli media reported that the Israeli Air Force’s F-35 stealth multirole fighter went unserviceable as a result of an alleged bird collision during a training flight.

The incident allegedly took place “two weeks ago” but was publicly reported only on October 16. However, Israeli sources were not able to show a photo of the F-35 warplane after the “bird collision”.

Furthermore, it is not clear if the F-35 can become operational again because its stealth coating was damaged. Thus, according to the Israeli version, the warplane reportedly became no longer operational after the bird collision despite the fact that the F-35 earlier passed the bird strike sertification with great results (official info here). The F-35 is the the world’s most expensive warplane. The price of developing the F-35 is now about $406.5 billion.

Israel is actively buying the world’s self-proclaimed most advanced fighter paying about $100 million for each plane.

So what did really hit the F-35?
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Unread post17 Oct 2017, 18:04

Dragon029 wrote:And cue conspiracy theories because it's Israel:

Super Hornets have been damaged by flightline mishaps and bird strikes, resulting in the jet being no longer mission capable due to radar signature issues. In some cases the jets had to be returned to depot for somewhat lengthy and costly repairs. I can't imagine the F-35 being any different. If a bird hit certain parts of the aircraft, getting spare panels may be difficult.

Also, the Israeli F-35s have been seen flying with external stores and pylons, so they wouldn't be "Stealth" in that configuration.
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Unread post17 Oct 2017, 20:49

From southfront's about page:

"CNN’s fake newscast from the First Gulf War"

"The BBC has also been caught staging fake news about Syria to justify military intervention"

"Everybody can become a volunteer in our project and share their own story and perspective with the world."

"common people with inquisitive minds are able to produce balanced content in a modern information-oriented society."

Mhm.
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Unread post17 Oct 2017, 22:38

Hmm. Both Israel and Syria have trustworthy news sources. The only logical explanation is that Syrian S-200 systems fire birds instead of missiles and one of them happen to hit an Israeli F-35 while landing. The bird's feathers got stuck to the RAM coating and now they're trying to figure out how to scrape it off without damaging the RAM.
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blindpilot

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Unread post18 Oct 2017, 02:26

Dragon029 wrote:And cue conspiracy theories because it's Israel:

https://southfront.org/israel-hiding-st ... e-reports/

...


SouthFront ? !!!! We're quoting SouthFront now? !!!

from their own web page- About:
" SouthFront aims to reveal the real events occurring in the world; to show you what is hidden behind the veil of disinformation and nuanced propaganda. Everybody can become a volunteer in our project and share their own story and perspective with the world... mainstream media that attempts to hide the real truth... They create a false image ...engineer the consent of people... by controlling the narrative of events. ...

Like in the ground-breaking movie, SouthFront offers you the choice of taking the “red pill”.


Oooooh .... kay! Step away from the keyboard ...

:o :o
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PS : Wait! wait I just saw a story in the Inquirer!! but it's hidden on the last page right after the three headed alien story...
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Dragon029

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Unread post18 Oct 2017, 03:17

As I said; "cue conspiracy theories" - I quoted the article so that you all didn't have to give them click revenue and I only posted the article because it's exploded somewhat (someone even edited the Wikipedia page of the SA-5 to claim that it was "unilaterally confirmed" that it hit an F-35 :roll: ; I'm in the process of repairing that entry).

I will say though, I am a little confused now, because a Times of Israel article has just come out and it claims that the birdstrike (with 2 storks apparently) occurred Tuesday, rather than 2 weeks ago. I'm assuming that's misreporting on the original kan.org.il article.
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Unread post18 Oct 2017, 04:16

Hard to imagine the damage from a SAM hit could be passed off as a bird strike. Why would an F-35I operating over Lebanon be carrying external ordnance? If true it was an act of tactical arrogance on the part of Israel. It wouldn't be the first time overconfidence has led the Israel military to make a major blunder. If it was a bird strike this is the downside of a military policy of keeping everything secret. With no real information everything feeds the rumor mill. Ether way this isn't good publicity for the F-35.
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blindpilot

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Unread post18 Oct 2017, 04:51

Dragon029 wrote:As I said; "cue conspiracy theories" - I quoted the article so that you all didn't have to give them click revenue and I only posted the article because it's exploded somewhat (someone even edited the Wikipedia page of the SA-5 to claim that it was "unilaterally confirmed" that it hit an F-35 :roll: ; I'm in the process of repairing that entry).

I will say though, I am a little confused now, because a Times of Israel article has just come out and it claims that the birdstrike (with 2 storks apparently) occurred Tuesday, rather than 2 weeks ago. I'm assuming that's misreporting on the original kan.org.il article.


Good catch on the Wiki page Dragon. I see the "event" page has been deleted. Hope you get the entry dumped.
Unbelievable how super market tabloids have taken over as "sources." We may be in worse trouble than we've imagined. Journalism may be at the edge of death.

Thanks for the heads up. Apologies for the snark.

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