No imminent F-35 sales to Gulf partners

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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spazsinbad

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Unread post04 Nov 2017, 20:41

Thanks for continuing/finding this old thread 'zerion'. Meanwhile I'm wondering about this: "...a rift the administration needs to amend...".? AMEN to that sista. :twisted:
Last edited by spazsinbad on 05 Nov 2017, 01:05, edited 1 time in total.
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popcorn

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Unread post05 Nov 2017, 00:59

just a matter of time.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post11 Nov 2017, 13:57

Here’s a nice overview of possible upcoming fighter procurements in the Gulf countries. Many of them are still splitting buys across manufacturers. Rafale and Typhoon seem like popular choices as the F-35 is not available to all. I also posted an article by the same author on the UAE F-35 talks. We still might be talking ten years until the first F-35s arrive in the UAE.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... t-5-years/

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -with-uae/
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Unread post12 Nov 2017, 22:04

Top UAE Air Force General Positions for F-35
12 Nov 2017 Lara Seligman

"A top UAE air force general [Brig. Gen. Rashed M. Al Shamsi, deputy commander UAE air force and air defense] stressed the importance of information sharing between international partners on the battlefield at a gathering of air chiefs around the world, just a day after U.S. military brass confirmed the U.S. is considering selling the network-centric F-35 to Gulf allies....

...[The] UAE seems to be positioning itself to become the first Middle East customer aside from Israel to field the F-35.

The U.S. government frequently touts the stealth fighter as a supercomputer whose ability to vacuum up vast quantities of information and distribute that data seamlessly throughout the force is a gamechanger for air warfare. “We shouldn’t have called it an airplane, we should’ve called it a supercomputer that flies,” Wilson told Aviation Week on the sidelines of the air chiefs conference Nov. 11

Rashed emphasized that the UAE plans to invest in network-centric warfare, including cyber security, although this “will not come cheap.”

“Cyber and information networks as well as the security of air and night-time air defense will continue to remain a priority over the coming years,” he said. “As we look at the future [we] need to ensure fast, reliable and secure information networks.”

For the UAE, fielding the “fifth-generation platform” would be a step toward achieving network-centric warfare, Rashed told Aviation Week on the sidelines of the conference. However, he stressed that the discussions about buying the new fighter are still in the early stages."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/dubai-air-show- ... tions-f-35
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Unread post13 Nov 2017, 17:26

Source: UAE wants to buy 24 F-35s
By: Chirine Mchantaf and Agnes Al Helou

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — The United Arab Emirates Air Force will undergo a restructuring, guided in part by plans to buy two squadrans of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.

“We are currently forming a specialized committee to assess the risks, threats and needs of the UAE Air Force,” and then evaluate available platforms to meet requirements, according to an Emirati military source.

Much of the focus at the Dubai Air Show has been on the Gulf country’s progress toward authorization to purchase the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. According to military sources with knowledge of the matter, “the talks between the two parties are [focused on] sensitive systems in the aircraft that need export permit.” The sources refused to disclose the value of the deal, but said it would be limited in the first phase to the purchase of two squadrons, or 24 aircraft...

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is also seeking to procure the F-35 jets, and talks are making an important progress, as stated by officials who refused to be named.

Gen. Stephen Wilson, the Air Force’s vice chief of staff, stressed the importance of the United State’s ongoing pursuit of potential new F-35 customers including the Gulf nation, since “we share threats, interests and responsibilities. We are going to explore options for those nations and partners to benefit from this capability...

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... ring-plan/
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Unread post13 Nov 2017, 21:23

DUBAI: USAF general sceptical of mixed F-35 and Russian fleet for UAE
13 Nov 2017 Leigh Giangreco

"The United States may be in talks with the United Arab Emirates over a potential Lockheed Martin F-35 sale, but the US Air Force’s head of Central Command doubts the UAE would be able to operate the Joint Strike Fighter alongside a fifth-generation Russian fighter....

... the UAE’s loyalties appear split, after Abu Dhabi signed a memorandum of understanding with Russia in February to develop a fifth-generation fighter jet. While the USAF’s vice chief of staff declined to comment on whether that move could hinder an F-35 acquisition, his counterpart from Central Command said operating a mixed fleet of Russian and US stealth aircraft would prove challenging.

“Frankly I’m not sure it’s doable,” Lt Gen Jeffrey Harrigian told FlightGlobal at the annual Dubai International Air Chiefs Conference. “You can figure out a way to do it but we’re protected with what’s coming off the F-35… To try and introduce it into something that we don’t operate it with is not some place I would expect we’re going to go.”...

...“There’s a whole litany of things that would impact beyond just the policy problem you’re going to have,” he says. “At the end of the day, it’s protecting our capabilities so that if your son or daughter is in that airplane, we haven’t given something away that an adversary could use against us in the future.”..."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... us-443179/
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Unread post14 Nov 2017, 11:54

To Seal F-35 Deal, UAE Must Agree To Protect Sensitive Information
14 Nov 2017 Lara Seligman

"DUBAI, UAE – Approval of the UAE’s request to buy the F-35 hinges on the Gulf nation’s agreeing to take steps to protect the network-centric fighter’s sensitive technology and vast data bank of critical information, according to the Pentagon’s top weapons buyer....

...As the UAE seeks a classified briefing on the F-35, the U.S. is working closely with the Emirates to establish a structure to protect this kind of information, Ellen Lord, U.S. undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics, told Aviation Week in an interview at the Dubai Airshow.

The U.S. is “continuing to partner with the UAE on being able to release more hardware and software to them, and to some extent that’s predicated on a system to control critical information that somewhat aligns with the U.S.,” Lord said. “It’s not a question of right or wrong, it’s being able to communicate effectively and make sure we understand each other’s positions.”

The U.S. has procedures in place to ensure high-level government officials review critical information before it gets distributed throughout the force, Lord explains. Before the UAE can buy the F-35, the Gulf nation must agree to a similar standard, she said. “We want that same thoughtful process to be applied in a way that’s somewhat consistent with the U.S. so we can share new technology,” she said...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/seal-f- ... nformation
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Unread post26 Dec 2017, 20:20

Double
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Unread post26 Dec 2017, 20:22

UAE doesn't want to be left out of the big boys toys club.

UAE Navy: A helicopter-carrier for F-35 aircraft too

Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi Sheikh Mohammad Bin Zayed Al Nahyan is said to have intention now to acquire a helicopter-carrier that is able at the same time to carry a variant of the F-35 aircraft which has vertical take-off and landing capabilities.

http://www.tacticalreport.com/view_news ... t-too/5473
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Unread post26 Dec 2017, 21:47

The signing of the MOU was a political master move by Russia. They signed the MOU knowing that any actual progress in a development program is small as UAE bring practically nothing to the table outside of financing. The MOU effectively hinders any F-35 sale because of the security risk presented by the UAE’s cooperation with an adversarial nation. Even a classified capabilities brief is off the table since the UAE would likely request those same capabilities in any developmental fighter, thereby providing valuable insight into F-35 capes. Additionally, the prospect of any Russian representative closely examining the F-35 is completely unacceptable. There is absolutely no way that UAE could guarantee that this wouldn’t happen if their loyalties are so divided and if they had committed significant resources toward this agreed upon Russian program.

Nicely played....
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Unread post26 Dec 2017, 23:15

caffeinated wrote:The signing of the MOU was a political master move by Russia. They signed the MOU knowing that any actual progress in a development program is small as UAE bring practically nothing to the table outside of financing. The MOU effectively hinders any F-35 sale because of the security risk presented by the UAE’s cooperation with an adversarial nation. Even a classified capabilities brief is off the table since the UAE would likely request those same capabilities in any developmental fighter, thereby providing valuable insight into F-35 capes. Additionally, the prospect of any Russian representative closely examining the F-35 is completely unacceptable. There is absolutely no way that UAE could guarantee that this wouldn’t happen if their loyalties are so divided and if they had committed significant resources toward this agreed upon Russian program.

Nicely played....


....nicely played..or not so much?...UAE is in an unenviable position of having to "choose" from the vast US resources invested in seaports and airports or dabbling with "Russia". No!, they will not dabble and "sit at the table" with the US technology, so....decision making time (clock is ticking). In light of the massive economic flow through the UAE by the US, even a "slight" could jeopardize Billions of dollars in UAE/US military commerce. Saudi Arabia would love nothing more than have the US military build a new intrastate highway/ rail system thru the Rub Al Kali from several Oman ports to Dammam to bypass the UAE.
...The UAE could play their cards "right" and benefit from participation in the F-35 program, or not.
:roll:
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 00:39

Yes, nicely played by Russia but a confounding choice by UAE. While they may feel the need to diversify their supplier base, they only need to look at India to know how this will play out. Perhaps they are leveraging Russia for a better F-35 deal?
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Unread post27 Dec 2017, 13:37

The political opposition to any Arab State getting the F-35 will be enormous. Your talking about who gets a first strike weapons system. It's also too risky to sell it to Turkey. The ME is dangerous enough without proliferating first strike weapons across the region. Why not order Assault Ships from the French? Russia decided it was better to order French Ships rather then try to build their own. Because of sanctions the two Assault Ships for Russia ended up in Egypt. Buying from the French would give them greater interoperability with other Arab Navies.
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