Finnish DefMin Interest in F-35s NOT Gripens

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maus92

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Unread post05 Oct 2017, 02:37

rheonomic wrote:I'd expect weapons integration to be easier on F-35 than the F/A-18 given the former's open architecture. I guess separation from the internal bays could be an issue, but avionics wise F-35 should be much easier.


JASSM (or LRASM) will not fit internally in the F-35A/B/C.
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rheonomic

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Unread post05 Oct 2017, 04:22

maus92 wrote:JASSM (or LRASM) will not fit internally in the F-35A/B/C.


And your point is?
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cavok

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Unread post05 Oct 2017, 12:00

krorvik wrote:It is important to note that both sweden and finland contribute *considerably* to nordic defense, and run large (for scandinavian purposes ;) joint exercises regularly. Sweden knows well what lurks across the baltic sea - and Finland even more so.

That is in official circles of course - it's much harder to speak of public opinion.

Be careful with judging from social media and tabloid news however... :devil:


Most ppl do not know what are Sweden present efforts for defence (remilitarization of Gotland), conscription, restart of "road strips" trials, improvements of Air Force infrastrictures, major exercises etc. Same foese for Finland.
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ricnunes

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Unread post05 Oct 2017, 13:50

rheonomic wrote:
maus92 wrote:JASSM (or LRASM) will not fit internally in the F-35A/B/C.


And your point is?


Yeah, I would like to know what was maus point as well. Moreover many people (including maus it seems) seems to forget that the F-35 can also carry weapons EXTERNALY just like for example a Hornet, Super Hornet or any other 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation jet fighter aircraft...
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XanderCrews

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Unread post05 Oct 2017, 16:20

maus92 wrote:
rheonomic wrote:I'd expect weapons integration to be easier on F-35 than the F/A-18 given the former's open architecture. I guess separation from the internal bays could be an issue, but avionics wise F-35 should be much easier.


JASSM (or LRASM) will not fit internally in the F-35A/B/C.


Thus making integration easier
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neptune

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Unread post05 Oct 2017, 18:47

maus92 wrote:
rheonomic wrote:I'd expect weapons integration to be easier on F-35 than the F/A-18 given the former's open architecture. I guess separation from the internal bays could be an issue, but avionics wise F-35 should be much easier.


JASSM (or LRASM) will not fit internally in the F-35A/B/C.


....nor does it fit internally in the "teens" (as qualified) or the F-22/ 35 but several of the smaller JSM do.
The LRASM does fit internally in the "Bone".

275 vs. 1000lb warhead, 345 vs. 350mi. range, 900 vs. 2500lb weight
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Conan

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Unread post06 Oct 2017, 10:40

maus92 wrote:
rheonomic wrote:I'd expect weapons integration to be easier on F-35 than the F/A-18 given the former's open architecture. I guess separation from the internal bays could be an issue, but avionics wise F-35 should be much easier.


JASSM (or LRASM) will not fit internally in the F-35A/B/C.


They won’t fit internally on a Super Hornet either...
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magitsu

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Unread post11 Oct 2017, 17:44

Finnish Air Force has just announced that they will take part in the Red Flag Alaska next year. So there's a good chance of them getting to know first hand the prowess of the F-35. https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-200000540 ... f1fb36071e

This is their first time doing so, representing a considerable investment. 6–8 Finnish F/A-18 is planned to participate.

Currently there are two F-18C being integrated with JASSM at China Lake. Keeping these two things in mind the Red Flag participation is probably desired due to learning opportunities related to Air to Ground operation. There's plenty of open airspace in the Nordics, but few suitable areas to do very long range ground fires. E.g. Nammo's new HE-ER ammo for K9 Thunder SPG's was tested in Ravlunda, Sweden.

There's also an ongoing three-year flight instructor swap between USMC and FiAF. One marine captain has been serving for a year now at the Karelian Air Command (Fighter Squadron 31) in Kuopio, Finland. The Finnish one is at MCAS Miramar (3rd Marine Air Wing, Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 101).



His blog (mostly in Englsh) is here:
https://lennonopettajavaihto.blogspot.fi/

Captain Daugherty's interview is here (run through Google Translate or just look at the pics):
http://ilmavoimat.fi/artikkeli/-/asset_ ... lennostoon
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cavok

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Unread post11 Oct 2017, 18:24

magitsu wrote:Finnish Air Force has just announced that they will take part in the Red Flag Alaska next year. So there's a good chance of them getting to know first hand the prowess of the F-35. https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-200000540 ... f1fb36071e

This is their first time doing so, representing a considerable investment. 6–8 Finnish F/A-18 is planned to participate.

Currently there are two F-18C being integrated with JASSM at China Lake. Keeping these two things in mind the Red Flag participation is probably desired due to learning opportunities related to Air to Ground operation. There's plenty of open airspace in the Nordics, but few suitable areas to do very long range ground fires. E.g. Nammo's new HE-ER ammo for K9 Thunder SPG's was tested in Ravlunda, Sweden.

There's also an ongoing three-year flight instructor swap between USMC and FiAF. One marine captain has been serving for a year now at the Karelian Air Command (Fighter Squadron 31) in Kuopio, Finland. The Finnish one is at MCAS Miramar (3rd Marine Air Wing, Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 101).



His blog (mostly in Englsh) is here:
https://lennonopettajavaihto.blogspot.fi/

Captain Daugherty's interview is here (run through Google Translate or just look at the pics):
http://ilmavoimat.fi/artikkeli/-/asset_ ... lennostoon



There are HUGE ranges in Sweden , sorry.
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magitsu

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Unread post18 Oct 2017, 23:08

Aside from Finland's upcoming 2018 participation in the Red Flag Alaska, it seems that the yearly Arctic Challenge Exercise (ACE) between the Nordic countries will be developed into Northern Flag.
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magitsu

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Unread post21 Oct 2017, 17:26

Corporal Frisk (reputable navy resevist blogger) provides an overview of two recent interviews of the program heads.
He sounds warning for F-35 and Gripen, which both lack in commitment to integrating heavy cruise missile.

Please do read, good content doesn't come by often.
https://corporalfrisk.com/2017/10/21/cr ... es-for-hx/
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hythelday

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Unread post21 Oct 2017, 18:22

magitsu wrote:Corporal Frisk (reputable navy resevist blogger) provides an overview of two recent interviews of the program heads.
He sounds warning for F-35 and Gripen, which both lack in commitment to integrating heavy cruise missile.

Please do read, good content doesn't come by often.
https://corporalfrisk.com/2017/10/21/cr ... es-for-hx/


Even with UAI/Block 4 software simplifying JASSM integration there's an issue of separation tests which according to the quotes Finns are not interesting in footing the bill for (that is IF USAF isn't bothered to put JASSM on Stubby by 2029). However, since F-35As already did good on DEAD missions during Red Flag, I don't think FiAF will miss their 3,6M$ cruise missiles that much, just of how many more BLU-109 one can get for that money :D
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cavok

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Unread post21 Oct 2017, 18:54

If the Finnish want a high penetration high explosive long range missile and consider it as mandatory, it is their privilege isn't it?
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hythelday

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Unread post21 Oct 2017, 18:54

cavok wrote:If the Finnish want a high penetration high explosive long range missile and consider it as mandatory, it is their privilege isn't it?


Yes, it is.
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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Oct 2017, 21:47

What's all this fuzz about Finland's future fighter and the JASSM about??

If the JASSM integration is really required by the Finnish than I'm pretty sure that this is part of the tender and as such all proposals (F-35, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, Super Hornet - These are all the 5 contenders for the Finnish tender, aren't they?) will take this into account even because none of the 5 contenders can currently carry the JASSM - The JASSM is currently integrated on the Legacy Hornet but still not on the Super Hornet, here:
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/d ... -16-pc.pdf

Besides I would say that integrating the JASSM on the external pylons of the F-35 shouldn't be that hard or even that costly since the JASSM is also a Lockheed Martin product.
So from all 5 contenders, the integration of the JASSM should be far easier on the F-35 and the Super Hornet compared to all other 3 remaining contenders.
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