F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2013, 01:50
by popcorn
The CoS of the Italian Air Force explains how they intend to be eagles and not chickens.

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/a-21st-century-a ... -the-f-35/

“This is an information warfare airplane which can share data across a fleet of global players. The reach of the F-35 means that my planes operating in the Western Mediterranean can receive data from throughout the region. And it is a plane with coalition designed into the aircraft.”

The plane is an information warfare aircraft, or an aircraft built to operate very differently from legacy aircraft... “Command and control capabilities are built into every cockpit of the F-35; the challenge will be to leverage those capabilities and the distributed decision making capabilities inherent in a fleet of F-35s.”

He underscored that a strategic shift towards pockets of defense and security challenges around the European, African, Mediterranean and Middle East regions meant that Europe, the United States and others needed to shape collaborative approaches to insert airpower when appropriate rapidly.

And the F-35 as a key distributed force asset was the right match for meeting distributed challenges...

“The fusion system built into every cockpit will allow shared coalition decision making that is required for the kinds of multi-national operations which are becoming the norm. We are not fighting in mass; we are applying tools rapidly and directly to discrete problems and challenges.”..

The first issue is the question of why the Italian Air Force was mixing its fleet between As and Bs.

“We studied the issue carefully and for the kind of missions we face we needed the flexibility which the B can add to the fleet. We need to go to the mission not the airfield. We will operate in many areas where there are only short runways; the B allows us to operate in those conditions.

We can mix the fleet and operate at sea on land, on our own ships or own others. It is the kind of flexibility, which we see as crucial to a 21st century setting.

I will give you an example of what we don’t want. We planned to operate with the USMC in Afghanistan. But we were three months later in the deployment than we intended because our Tornados could not operate in the same conditions as the USMC. We had to take three months to build out the air base from which we would operate with them.

Time is crucial to many of the missions in which we will be engaged. The Bs give me a more rapid insertion aircraft.”

"... Shaping combinations of 4th generation with the F-35s will be a mix and match opportunity in tailoring airpower to the missions ahead.

This is a challenge; but it is a key task within which the F-35s will make the legacy aircraft more effective; and the 4th generation aircraft will add support and strike capabilities to an F-35 enabled air power force.”

"... He concluded by emphasizing that the line between those countries that operate in the fifth generation and those that don’t will be more than just a line in the sand.

It will first of all be about survival. Do you want to be the Eagle or the Chicken in an airpower confrontation?

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2013, 19:05
by XanderCrews
popcorn wrote:
I will give you an example of what we don’t want. We planned to operate with the USMC in Afghanistan. But we were three months later in the deployment than we intended because our Tornados could not operate in the same conditions as the USMC. We had to take three months to build out the air base from which we would operate with them.

Time is crucial to many of the missions in which we will be engaged. The Bs give me a more rapid insertion aircraft.”


Another tidbit to remember when douches start breaking out the "we never use STOVL in combat" garbage

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 20 Nov 2013, 19:40
by sprstdlyscottsmn
the near limitless basing possibilities (land or ship based) alone make the B worth a look.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 09 Feb 2014, 21:57
by spazsinbad
Italian Parliament complaining again but anyway....

Italian Lawmakers Consider New Cuts to JSF Purchase 09 Feb 2014 TOM KINGTON
"ROME — Eight months after the Italian parliament suspended new orders of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), members of the country’s biggest political party may try to halve the total purchase.

A source within the center-left Democratic Party said the members were preparing a policy document for approval in parliament which could seek to cut Italy’s planned purchase of JSFs from 90 to around 45. The country has already reduced its total buy from the originally planned 131 aircraft.

But a second source said that debate inside the party is still continuing, and that the final document may merely threaten a cut if Italy does not obtain better conditions on the U.S.-led program....

...Assembly work on Italy’s JSFs at the country’s Final Assembly and Check Out line at Cameri airbase in northern Italy has meanwhile proceeded according to schedule since kicking off last July, said Debra Palmer, Lockheed Martin’s vice president and general manager for the FACO.

An Italian defense source said Italian officials are proceeding with the procurement of 14 aircraft which were covered by full or initial industrial agreements signed before the vote last June. Three of the aircraft come from Low Rate Initial Production batch 6, three from LRIP 7, four for LRIP 8 and four from LRIP 9, including one F-35B jump-jet variant. The defense source said that even if just long-lead items had been ordered for aircraft before the vote, the ministry felt justified in pushing ahead with their full procurement.

Palmer said that Lockheed Martin now had work “locked in” from Italy to deliver three LRIP 6 jets to Italy as well as three LRIP 7 jets and two from LRIP 8, all of the F-35A conventional take off and landing model.

The components of the first aircraft, known as AL-1, are now emerging from the Electronic Mate and Alignment system, one of four at the base, which is run jointly by Alenia and Lockheed Martin and bankrolled by the Italian government.

Engine and electronics testing, including checks on the aircraft’s low observation signature, will begin shortly, with first flights and delivery in 2015, said Palmer.

Work on the second aircraft to be assembled started in November, with the third to start in March and the fourth in July. “All major components have arrived for AL-3 and some for AL-4 are arriving now,” said Palmer.

Alenia Aermacchi is meanwhile stepping up its work on JSF wings at Cameri, with the first two full wing sets destined for US F-35s now in production.

With Italy dropping from 131 aircraft to 90, and The Netherlands— which has agreed to assemble its jets at Cameri — ordering 37 jets instead of the planned 85, Palmer said Cameri “will not have the rate of production originally planned,” but suggested the Dutch order could yet rise. “When they ordered F-16s, they did it in tranches, and we think they could do that again.”

She said other European countries could yet be drawn to Cameri due to the savings from not having to fly new operational aircraft across the Atlantic flanked by tankers and support aircraft.

“The purchase price of the aircraft from Lockheed Martin will be the same regardless of the assembly location,” she said."

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... 01/DEFSECT

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 10 Feb 2014, 06:42
by Corsair1963
Just politics fueled by bad press..........(unfortunately) Nonetheless, I don't see Italy making any cuts let alone drastic ones like is described in the article. Because Italy has invested so much in the JSF Program.


Yet, if it doesn't want its F-35 Production Line and Maintenance Hub. I am sure Japan or even South Korea would be happy to step in....... :wink:

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 10 Feb 2014, 13:02
by glendora
It’s hard to tell what is going to happen here in Italy in the future.
The Defense News article depicts quite accurately the situation.

Just another quote from the above article:

Called to speak in September (in front of the Defense Commissione of the aprliament, my note), Finmeccanica CEO Alessandro Pansa appeared underwhelmed by the firm’s work on the JSF program. “Finmeccanica will not build its future as an operator of avant-garde technology by supplying parts of large aircraft,” he said.


I watched the auditions of Pansa and eventually, yes he was quite underwhelmed with the F-35, and showed much more enthusiasm for the Typhoon.
Apparently he also passed to the Commission a document which states that the manufacturing of the wings at Cameri would be lossmaking. And this, with no certainty of future maintenance work at Cameri, could have been of some impact.
Most of the public opinion here, not only the center-left electors, but also the center-right. is against the program.

On the other hand, as stated also by Defense News whit its "two sources", there are also many political supporters of the program, including the President of the Republic.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 14 Mar 2014, 08:06
by spazsinbad
Italy prepared to cut major defence projects - minister 12 Mar 2014 Steve Scherer
"ROME.... (Reuters) - Italy will review its military needs and not hesitate to cut spending on unnecessary big projects, new defence minister Roberta Pinotti said on Wednesday, an announcement that will put the spotlight on its order for F-35 jets....

...The government is now committed to buy 90 of the warplanes for about 10 billion euros ($14 billion), but there is broad political support for further cuts to the programme....

...In her first appearance before parliament since being sworn in last month, Pinotti did not mention the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, which has been dogged by technical problems. But she did not rule out further spending cuts.

"The government will not hesitate to review, reduce or rethink even large projects that are under way or being considered if economic or international situations show them to be inopportune," she said in testimony to the joint Senate and Chamber defence committees.

Before any spending decisions were made, the minister said she would lead a review of military needs, without saying how long it would take...."

SOURCE: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/ ... UP20140312

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 14 Mar 2014, 09:37
by weasel1962
Italy was supposed to order 25 typhoons in tranche 3B. Germany has already decided not participate. UK has weasel-ed out of their share leaving only Italy & Spain. Whilst some Italians might favor the typhoon over the F-35, their cost from a smaller 3B order should go up enough to make a "cut" worth considering.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 15 Mar 2014, 20:31
by spazsinbad
Italian president: parliament not authorised to cut F-35 project 14 Mar 2014

"After debate in the Italian Parliament and press about possible new cuts in the F-35 fleet, president Giorgio Napolitana reacted with a very surprising coup to defend the F-35.

Since some months there are persistent rumors about further cutting of the purchase of the troubled F-35 combat jet, the so called “Plan Renzi” to recover the financial situation of the Italian Government after the Euro-crisis. The top of the Italian MoD, the Italian and US industry are becoming very nervous about the “Plan Renzi”, because it proposes to cut the F-35 fleet from the current 90 to 45 only (original planning 131) for the benefit of the alternative program Eurofighter.

Today the 88-year old president Giorgio Napolitno ordered the Supreme Defence Council putting on the agenda that the Parliament has no power to control the costs of defence, because it is “critical for the implementation of Law 244”. In other words: it is forbidden for the Parliament to cut (certain) defence projects, only the Government is in control of that. By doing this a serious institutional clash may be looming, because the preparation of the parliamentary Financial Committee of Matteo Renzi is in a final stage...."

SOURCE: http://www.jsfnieuws.nl/?p=1078 [/quote]

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2014, 23:14
by spazsinbad
Italy's F-35 jet orders should be frozen, cut: Renzi party document 19 Mar 2014 Steve Scherer & Antonella Cinelli

"(Reuters) - Italy should put its order for 90 Lockheed Martin (LMT.N) F-35 fighter jets on hold and probably cut it "significantly", lawmakers in Prime Minister Matteo Renzi's Democratic Party (PD) say, according to a party document.

The government has committed to spending an estimated 12 billion euros for the 90 radar-evading planes, but Renzi, who announced 10 billion euros ($13.91 billion) in income tax cuts last week, said on Sunday the order would be "revised" as he seeks to reduce public spending.

A PD party paper seen by Reuters, which was distributed to PD lawmakers on Wednesday by PD defense committee member Gian Piero Scanu, says that the contracts should be frozen and that "significant" cuts are probably needed.

The paper argues that the F-35 guaranteed Italy "no significant industrial gains" and that its cost "cannot co-exist with the needs of our public finances."..."

SOURCE: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/ ... V920140319

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 20 Mar 2014, 15:20
by glendora
An extensive post on Gabriele's blog about the recent complex situation in Italy about the acquisition of the F-35s:
Italy and the F-35: what is actually happening?
http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.it/2014/03/italy-and-f-35-what-is-actually.html

Some very intersting highlights are included.
Press in Italy and abroad has gone into a frenzy over the news that Italy "will further cut its F-35 order, even halving it". But reality is a bit different.
Big cuts might be coming. Or might not.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2015, 12:11
by spazsinbad
An Update on Italian F-35s
19 Jun 2015 Rivista Italiana Difesa via SLDinfo

"2015-06-19 Our partner, Rivista Italiana Difesa, recently provided an update on the F-35s for Italy.

At the Le Bourget Air Show, RID had the opportunity to obtain some exclusive information.

Lockheed Martin is negotiating 150 F-35s with the US Department of Defense, and this order constitutes both LRIP (Low Rate Initial Production) 9 and 10.

The company expects to sign this contract by the end of the year.

Within LRIP 9 and 10, there would be six aircraft for the Italian Air Force and Navy: 2 within LRIP 9 (an F-35A and an F-35B) and four in LRIP 10 (2 F-35As and 2 F-35Bs)

The Italian FACO at Cameri will deliver one plane this year, and one each in 2016 and 2017 with 3 delivered in 2018 followed by 5 in 2019 and 5 in 2020."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/an-update-on-italian-f-35s/

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2016, 14:52
by spazsinbad
Room for New Italian Defense Programs Despite Spending Dip in 2016
01 Jun 2016 Tom Kington

"Italy’s defense procurement spending in 2016 is set to drop 3 percent to €4.72 billion, new budget documents reveal, although cash was found to launch a new jet trainer program and partner with France on a new missile program.

The dip, due to belt tightening as Italy struggles to escape recession, may alarm military officials, given the instability currently seen in North Africa and the renewed threat from Russia.

The spending trend, which looks set to continue for the next two years, runs contrary to a Europe-wide hike in defense spending currently underway.

Procurement funding for this year combines €2.18 billion from the Defense Ministry and a €2.54 billion top-up from the Industry Ministry, a decline on the €4.87 billion total made available last year, although the Defense Ministry funding is above the €1.95 billion initially forecast for 2016 in a provisional budget document released in December.

The latest document, which was sent to the Italian Parliament and seen by Defense News, is a three year budget covering 2016-2018, as is customary, which indicates that Defense Ministry procurement funding is expected to drop to €1.93 billion next year and in 2018....

...Italy’s ongoing purchase of F-35s is funded to the tune of €630 million. Following parliamentary votes in 2014 demanding a reduction in spending on the program, the document claims that €1 billion will be trimmed off spending between 2016 and 2019, and that spending last year was cut from €583 million to €370 million.

No explanation of where the cuts are being made is given, so it is not clear if the savings are related to Italy’s provisional decision to cut its F-35 order from 131 to 90 aircraft...."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /85265076/

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2016, 05:33
by nutshell
We're in trouble, that's not a surprise.

There's literally a sh*t storm rampaging right now because of the welfare system collapsing.

As in: i will never be able to get my retirement even if i could survive the fatigue of working at the age of 70.

But, anyway, i HIGHLY doubt Finmeccanica CEO is pushing for more Typhoons when Cameri has the potential of a big, BIG gold mine. He also predicted that by 2019, F35A produced here will cost around 65M euro, which makes the plane much more affordable then the Typhoon that are rotting because we simply don't have a use for it.

But ehy, everything is possible, and for sure the F35 is at much more risk then our politicians' immunities, massive wadges and general benefits.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 01 Oct 2016, 18:00
by spazsinbad
Check out the posts in this thread for 'pond crossing': viewtopic.php?f=57&t=28948&p=343524&hilit=Niccoli#p343524
Italian air force struggles to prove air power relevance
30 Sep 2016 Beth Stevenson

"Italy’s air force is “taken for granted” by the general public, politicians and the nation’s other armed services, according to a leading academic....

...And despite notable recent milestones – including it performing the first transatlantic crossing with the Lockheed Martin F-35 – the air force is still perceived less favourably than its sister services.

That flight was also made against the backdrop of wider doubts, he says: “There was scepticism [about] letting the Italians go first, but it worked out well.” [Nah the Italian Air Farce are surrender monkeys SHIRLEY - this is a ridiculous proposition - I reckon leading academics are full of shite!]...

...Rome is exploring the wider use of its air assets outside conflicts, and is trying to expand the F-35’s role into new areas, such as data collection, Alegi says. [Geez this is easy - it is collecting data - HEAPS]

“What if we can find a use for air power during peacetime? We’re thinking about how to do that.”

“Air power is not seen as the way of approaching a problem, other than during humanitarian crises.”

Growing the number of roles performed by the Joint Strike Fighter is vital, [easy peasy just listen to Italian F-35 pilots but hey acamadamademics are cool - NOT] he says, not least as a future replacement for the Eurofighter Typhoons currently operated by the service. [This academic needs to get edumacated Shirley]

“We need to make the most of this [the F-35],” he says. “When you point out that the Typhoon is more expensive than the F-35, it doesn’t really resonate, because air policing is a good use of them.”"

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ev-429948/

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 12 May 2017, 09:25
by spazsinbad
Wannabe CLOWN/COMIC led Italian Party wants to scrap the F-35 IF they get the power through elections next year? They should seek advice from the :devil: Canaduckaduckians. They can getogether for a real clown show - luv it! :doh:
Italy's anti-establishment Five Star party would scrap F-35 program
11 May 2017 Tom Kington

"ROME — Italy’s anti-establishment Five Star Movement, the political party vying for top spot in polls ahead of elections due by next year, has committed to scrapping the F-35 program if it takes office.

“There will be no ifs or buts about leaving the F-35 program,” said Tatiana Basilio, a Five Star member of the Italian parliament during a presentation of the party’s defense manifesto on Thursday....

...The aircraft, and its price tag, has long been a target for the Five Star Movement, which was founded by comic Beppe Grillo in 2009 and has since campaigned to cut down on corruption and waste in public spending.

The party has risen in the polls in tandem with populist movements in other countries, and its leader Grillo has praised U.S. President Donald Trump and Russia President Vladimir Putin while criticising the policies of the European Union. ..."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ita ... 35-program

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 12 May 2017, 13:41
by nutshell
Stop it there mate.

Yeah the f35 is at risk. Atm i can't name a single party that would guarantee for the program.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 12 May 2017, 16:29
by SpudmanWP
He's making the same mistake as Canada...

1. Spout off & make promises about a program that you have no classified access to.
2. Base all you opinion of the program on public pressure & "news" stories.
3. Be held to your promises despite finding out the truth when you take office.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2017, 18:31
by steve2267
If Italy actually followed through on this "promise", could the Calamari (sp?) FACO facility be closed and given to another nation that really wants the F-35?

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2017, 18:34
by SpudmanWP
steve2267 wrote:If Italy actually followed through on this "promise", could the Calamari (sp?) FACO facility be closed and given to another nation that really wants the F-35?

No, it's owned by Italy (and/or Italian companies) and not the JPO in general.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2017, 19:58
by steve2267
SpudmanWP wrote:
steve2267 wrote:If Italy actually followed through on this "promise", could the Calamari (sp?) FACO facility be closed and given to another nation that really wants the F-35?

No, it's owned by Italy (and/or Italian companies) and not the JPO in general.


Sorry, perhaps a poor choice of words on my part. Let me rephrase:

If Italy totally backs out of the F-35 (i.e. cancels contracts etc), could the Calamari FACO work be given to another nation? Let Italy keep their facility and try to find other work for it, but move the actual work to another nation.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2017, 20:06
by SpudmanWP
Sure.. The right to bid on future contracts is based on continuing participation it the program. This is what Canada is finding out.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 22 May 2017, 21:03
by bojack_horseman
Imagine my shock as a political party in the Kremlin's pocket is fervently anti-F35.

In what will also be not at all shocking, this party are also against NATO.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2017, 07:33
by Corsair1963
It's very unlikely that Italy will leave the F-35 Program. Regardless, who get's elected......Nonetheless, Italy only has herself to blame for this mess. :doh:

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2017, 00:01
by nutshell
Wow, thats a lot of wrong in just few posts.

I'm trying again this time should work:
NO DINERO!

All the parties, EACH ONE OF THEM, are having second thoughts about the F35, because...


...again...

...no coins left in the piggybank. Something has to go and the F35 MIGHT be one of the things.

Holy ****, not even the old PCI was THAT connected to the "mother Russia"; sorry but this is average Sputnik/RT commenter level of BS. I'm frankly amazed.

p.s.: its CAMERI, Calamari are...the squids :D

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 18:49
by neptune
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-440164/

Audit report highlights Italy's F-35 challenges

10 August, 2017
BY: Luca Peruzzi Genoa

Italy wants to move its four Lockheed Martin F-35As allocated to an international training school in the USA to Europe, to support its operational preparations with the type, according to an audit office report published on 7 August. “The [Italian] administration has signaled its intention to renegotiate an agreement with the US government in order to recover the four aircraft destined to training and assign them to operational activities as soon as possible," the Court of Audit-produced document says. "Obtaining a critical mass of aircraft should allow the full employment of the system’s operational potential by the end of 2018." One of the reasons for the requested change is a previous Italian decision to slow the rate at which it will acquire the F-35. This restructuring reduced from 29 to 22 the number of aircraft to be funded until 2021 – 17 conventional take-off and landing F-35As, and five B-model short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) examples.

The report indicates that Italy's defense ministry has now authorized contracts with Lockheed and F135 engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney for 10 F-35As and 2 F-35Bs, through the program's low-rate initial production (LRIP) batches 6 to 10. It has halved the planned number of aircraft included in LRIP 10 to two, after securing an agreement to move the others to LRIP 11 without penalty. In 2012 Italy reduced the size of its total planned F-35 order from 131 aircraft to 90. A memorandum of understanding signed with the USA covering LRIP batches 12 to 14 will deliver a further 8 A-model aircraft for its air force and nine STOVL jets for the navy. Rome had spent €3.5 billion ($4.1 billion) on the F-35 program by the end of last year, covering its system development and demonstration phase, aircraft procurements and investment in a final assembly and check-out line and maintenance, a repair and overhaul and upgrade facility at Cameri air base, and other base infrastructure costs.

Flight Fleets Analyzer records the Italian air force as having received eight of its aircraft so far, with another example and the navy's first F-35B to follow before the end of this year. The report says Italian companies had secured contracts worth €2.3 billion linked to the F-35 program by the end of 2016, with Leonardo's share worth €1.8 billion. Industry participation has been limited by procurement delays, as well as a "best value" policy applied while allocating international work share and US non-disclosure policies, it notes.
:)

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 23:31
by spazsinbad
Another report with lots of extra detail especially the last paragraph below.
Italy's audit court gives F-35 cautious approval
10 Aug 2017 Tom Kington

"ROME — Italy’s audit court has given measured approval to the F-35 program, claiming in a detailed new report that Italy needs to be on board despite price hikes, delays and the country’s currently low workshare.

Any moves to reduce Italy’s purchase of 90 aircraft, given the “notable” price rise of the aircraft, would deprive Italy of access to vital technology “not currently available in the country” and risk cutting work at the country’s F-35 final assembly and maintenance line, the report argues.

Looking at the bottom line, the court said that Italy had invested 3.5 billion in the program to the end of 2016 and another 600 million euros this year — so much money it cannot afford to pull out now....

...The court, which monitors Italy’s government spending, warned that the 2012 decision to cut Italy’s F-35 order from 131 to 90 aircraft may have saved 5.4 billion euros but cost 3.1 billion euros in lost contracts, particularly the construction of wingboxes by Italian defense giant Leonardo, which fell from 1,215 sets to 835 sets....

...Italy’s deal with the U.S. to offer Cameri as a heavy maintenance base for Europe will offer the base a future after planes are assembled, but its future success was put in doubt by the exclusion of Italian firms from recent contract awards for maintenance, the report said.

“Currently, there is uncertainty over the competing role of the U.K. base at Marham, which has obtained, in order to ensure national sovereignty, maintenance and repair work for the U.K. fleet,” the report said.

That said, if new orders for aircraft in Europe arrive in the next five years, Cameri would be well placed to benefit, the judges added, although any drop, or even uncertainty over Italian orders, could weaken Cameri as it competes against other maintenance centers.

The court criticized the request made by Italy’s Parliament in 2012 to halve the amount of money that Italy is spending on the program. That had led to a slowdown in orders placed by Italy up to 2021 and a savings of 1.2 billion euros between 2015 and 2019.

Eight aircraft are due for delivery in 2017 compared to the 10 originally planned, while 22 will be delivered by 2021, down from 29, and spending on bases at Grottaglie and Decimomannu has been suspended, the report said.

But any savings will be temporary, given the overall number of aircraft on order has not changed, meaning there will be “no saving in the long term,” the report stated.

To cope with the slowdown of orders, Italy is planning to renegotiate its deal with the U.S. under which four of the Italian planes now delivered are involved in pilot training in the U.S.

Getting those planes back to join the few now flying in Italy would allow the Italian Air Force to achieve an operational number of aircraft by the end 2018, instead of the currently forecast 2021. “At the same time, Italian pilot training would take place in Italy,” the judges stated....

...The report refers to concerns over the transfer of sensitive data acquired by F-35 aircraft to the U.S. “By the end of 2017, there will be the implementation of a national filter (hardware and software produced by an Italian firm and placed under exclusively national control), which will allow the automatic blocking of messages and data where transmission is not wanted,” the report said. “To that national equipment there will be added, in 2018, a more general multinational solution, consisting of a software filter,” the report said."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/08/ ... -approval/

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 06:55
by spazsinbad
Strike planned at Italy F-35 assembly line
22 Apr 2018 Tom Kington

"ROME ― Workers at Italy’s F-35 assembly line have announced a strike next Tuesday to protest the widespread use of employment agency contractors at the site. Unions planning the one-day strike said 600 staff at Cameri Air Base — where Italy is performing F-35 final assembly work — are working on agency contracts, while only 270 are employed directly by Italian defense firm Leonardo, which runs the site. “There is no job security for staff,” said Sergio Busca a representative of the UILM union at the site. “Leonardo has long promised to hire them, but we are getting frustrated,” he added.

Owned by the Italian government and operated by state defense firm Leonardo in partnership with Lockheed Martin, Cameri has delivered nine F-35As to the Italian Air Force. Five are now flying from Italy’s Amendola Air Base and four are involved in in pilot training at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona....

...Italy is currently due to purchase 60 F-35As and 30 F-35Bs, while Cameri is also due to assemble 29 F-35As for the Royal Netherlands Air Force....

...“Leonardo has said the high number of agency staff is normal, but we should have work here for decades with the maintenance activity, so why not hire the staff, given their qualifications?” said Busca.

In a statement, Leonardo said it would start giving the staff full time positions this year. It put the number of agency staff at 520. The promise has not convinced workers at Cameri, who organized an overtime ban last Saturday as an initial protest, which Busca said was widely adhered to...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... mbly-line/

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 07:45
by sunstersun
Yo we don't need this right now...

We're trying to ramp up production. Don't **** this up please. Hire them full time, we're looking at least 3 + more European countries that would need Italy's production line.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 09:10
by weasel1962
The Italian assembly line at Cameri doesn't assemble for US production. I think only Dutch and Italian units at the moment so the impact, if any, is minimal.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 09:27
by spazsinbad
ONE DAY strike people - geez that is a REAL BLOW. <sarc off>

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 09:44
by weasel1962
Cameri was originally set up to handle 216 production units (131 Italian and 85 Dutch). Now the orders have shrunk to 90+29 = 119. No problemo? I think the workers would be happier if there was really more work.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 16:13
by sunstersun
man how are the dutch only order 37? They danes are ordering 28 and the Norwegians are ordering 52. Isn't netherlands like the 6th biggest economy in the EU after big 3 + italy spain?

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 16:30
by botsing
sunstersun wrote:man how are the dutch only order 37? They danes are ordering 28 and the Norwegians are ordering 52. Isn't netherlands like the 6th biggest economy in the EU after big 3 + italy spain?

Whether that number is large or small depends on what metric you will use for your comparison.

If for example we take the area to defend, then The Netherlands will have more than three times as many F-35's per square mile than the USA:
Image

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 24 Apr 2018, 04:41
by nutshell
They sounds like they're working for free and illegally...

...f@ing spoiled cunts.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 26 Apr 2018, 21:19
by spazsinbad
Italian Air Force Commander On How F-35 Will Transform The Service
24 Apr 2018 Tony Osborne

"Italy’s challenging economic climate is perhaps not the most conducive for evolving an air force, yet the nation is now taking deliveries of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF), maritime patrol aircraft, jet trainers and new intelligence-gathering assets. Aviation Week London Bureau Chief Tony Osborne caught up with the Italian Air Force commander, Enzo Vecciarelli, to find out how this evolution is gaining pace.

What will the F-35 bring to the Italian Air Force? Gen. Vecciarelli: The F-35 is the aircraft suitable and necessary for new-generation scenarios. It is not just a fighter but also the best asset that can be used in a growing number of hybrid situations to achieve information superiority.

It seems that the F-35 is not a popular program with Italian politicians. How do you convince them of the aircraft’s attributes? Our political leadership is aware of the importance of the JSF program and the tremendous enhancement this asset will bring to the capabilities of the defense ministry. Even when severe budget constraints forced a decrease in the number of acquisitions, Italy’s participation in the program has never been in doubt.

When do you hope to declare the F-35 operational? We are on track to achieve initial operational capability (IOC) by the end of 2018. IOC depends upon several parameters. These include the appropriate number of aircraft being delivered to the operational units, the proper level of training and expertise for personnel and the software block upgrade that will enable us to employ the appropriate weapons for the assigned missions.

You are planning to host the first fifth-generation Tactical Leadership Program exercise at Amendola AB [to train NATO aircrews how to work better in a coalition operation]. Are other F-35 nations interested in the exercise? Because Amendola is the first European F-35 operational base, it is fully up to speed to host fifth-generation assets for deployment, exercises and real operations. Therefore, we have offered our partner nations the chance to perform the fourth 2018 TLP course over our territory. This represents the first opportunity in Europe to host training activities involving the F-35, fostering interoperability between fourth- and fifth-generation assets during complex and advanced missions. All the TLP-signing nations have shown great interest; there is an initial bidding [to take part in] the course for approximately 50 aircraft....

...Many other air forces face personnel retention and pilot shortages. Is this the same for Italy, and if so, how are you combating the situation? Pilot shortage seems to be widespread across many air forces, and we are not immune. So far, our selection process and in-house training capabilities allow us to retain an acceptable ratio between the fielding of newly trained pilots and the replacement of experienced ones who reach the end of their flying duties. The biggest challenge now is the need to train pilots for the new F-35 operational squadrons while maintaining operational capabilities on the other fighter components. We’re focusing on an efficient training system that shortens [F-35] training time while allowing pilots to quickly become up to speed with the operational environments and complexity of the new information-management systems on the aircraft...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/italian ... rm-service

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2018, 05:56
by spazsinbad
Will they - Won't they - it is a Magical Mystery Tour of potential Italian Politics and their Defence (Industry) nobody knows.
Future of F-35 in Italy remains a mystery under new government
25 May 2018 Tom Kington

"Two populist parties on the brink of forming Italy’s first populist government claim strong backing to the country’s defense industry, marking a change of tack after earlier criticism of the sector. The anti-establishment Five Star Movement, which has won votes crusading against political corruption, has teamed with the anti-migrant League party to form a government which may be sworn in next week. The two parties, which formed a coalition after inconclusive elections in March left Italy with a hung parliament, are currently drawing up a list of ministers.

Five Star has traditionally opposed investment in the defense industry and elected members of the party last year vowed to pull Italy out of the F-35 program if they came to power….

...The F-35 progam is not mentioned, and one senior political source told Defense News its omission meant neither one thing or an other. “It just means we don’t know what they are going to do,” said the source. One analyst said that until the equilibrium in the coalition between the two parties was better known, and until a new defense minister was appointed, it was hard to tell what Italy’s next government will do about the F-35 and defense spending in general…."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... overnment/

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2018, 20:45
by nutshell
It seems that F35 cuts magically disappeared from the government agreement that M5S and Lega Nord signed.

Too early to celebrate because there are too many fale news around it (most of them coming out Germany).

Feel optimistic.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 02 Jun 2018, 21:33
by weasel1962
M5S had threatened to cancel the F-35 program. The new defense minister is Elisabetta Trenta who is from M5S. Agree too early to see how things go but with the big debt situation to tackle, even keeping the status quo would be seen as a victory for the italian f-35 program.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 02:16
by nutshell
weasel1962 wrote:M5S had threatened to cancel the F-35 program. The new defense minister is Elisabetta Trenta who is from M5S. Agree too early to see how things go but with the big debt situation to tackle, even keeping the status quo would be seen as a victory for the italian f-35 program.


She also served in the Army as a captain. Worked along the army in Iraqi, Lebanon and Libya; her husband is an Army officer.
I'm expecting her to seal the deal with the F35.

The focus on balancing the GDP with the debt is defenetively shifted elsewhere.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 07:23
by weasel1962
nutshell wrote:She also served in the Army as a captain. Worked along the army in Iraqi, Lebanon and Libya; her husband is an Army officer.
I'm expecting her to seal the deal with the F35.

The focus on balancing the GDP with the debt is defenetively shifted elsewhere.


Yup, just read thru her CV. Very impressive. Speaks 4 languages, served in the forces/UNIFIL, technical expert etc. Husbands works as a colonel in the directorate of armaments so should have some to advise in procurement.

What will reassure is that she is the moderate voice in the party whereas the other defense minister candidate Guido Crosseto was really the F-35 critic. Having said that, I don't think defence would be entirely immune from the debt issue. She wrote an article on defence/war by proxy at CEMISS which may suggest a non-interventionist role (i.e. less defence required). We live in interesting times.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 11:57
by steve2267
weasel1962 wrote:She wrote an article on defence/war by proxy at CEMISS which may suggest a non-interventionist role (i.e. less defence required). We live in interesting times.


F-35 may function as a proxy enabler: it may be easier to convince some folks to be your boots on the ground if they believe you will provide them air cover / support.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 12:43
by nutshell
More words from both Di Maio and Salvini.

Again no mention to f35 purge. All about Formero's Reform and Renzi's Job Act.

I'm actually believing they really let the F35 out from the govt program. Cool cool.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 09:49
by gideonic
So the Italian vice prime minister met with the Russian ambassador. Seems they want to stop NATO from protecting against "nonexistent" threats in the East and worry "about the South". They also want to veto any sanctions against Russia. Going against the F-35 (as a symbol of transatlantic cooperation) looks like the next logical step.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 09 Jun 2018, 19:55
by nutshell
Crap.
Italy got damaged big time by the sanctions because we export a huge deal of goods to Russia.
What Salvini is asking is logical And responsible since he's the vice prime Minister.
This is what we missed in the past 8 years, politicians that are taking care of national interests.

BTW, Di Maio said he want to strengthen our position in the Alliance and he clearly stated we've no better and bigger ally than the US. Hence, F35 is safe, our place in Nato is safe, we are no Turkey.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 29 Jun 2018, 17:25
by talkitron
The new Italian defense minister committed to the F-35 in this interview. She wants to stretch out the buy but not reduce the final numbers acquired. Perhaps the Lega's sympathies for Donald Trump and the domestic assembly line helped overrule the M5S party's opposition to the F-35. The article also mentions penalties if Italy cut its order.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... th-france/

Italy’s new defense minister commits to F-35, butts heads with France


Five Star officials promised last year to scrap Italy’s purchase of 90 F-35 fighters, but Trenta said the new government would not cut orders, even if it might stretch out its purchase plan.

“It’s a program we inherited and we have lots of questions; that is why we will evaluate the program considering the industrial and technology benefits for national interest, as we are the new government,” she said.


Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2018, 21:14
by pron
News from Italy today.

ROME - The new Minister of Defence, Elisabetta Trenta, announced that Italy “will no longer be buying any F-35 planes” in an interview on the La7 Omnibus program on Friday.

“We have always been critics of the program and not afraid to hide it”, wrote the Minister on Facebook in a post where she shared the interview. “We will no longer invest in new fighter planes, and as for the contracts which have already been signed by the previous executive, we are carrying out a careful evaluation that exclusively takes into account the national interest.”

The only reason for keeping the current contracts would be because “we could find that terminating the contracts costs more than maintaining them. Around the F-35 there is technological activity, important research and of course employment which would be cut in turn. This is why we have to take care with our evaluation.”

http://www.italianinsider.it/?q=node/6962

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2018, 01:08
by geforcerfx
With that I bet Itally loses final production line.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2018, 05:24
by durahawk
geforcerfx wrote:With that I bet Itally loses final production line.


This seems to be a fairly boneheaded move by Italy. They are holding a fairly large slice of the industrial offsets.

Their military is underfunded to begin with from the NATO perspective. This will make it even worse.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2018, 08:36
by juretrn
By the time the morons that got elected are finally forced to step down (there's no way this government is making it through an entire term), there will be a need to do some major firefighting by a more reasonable government. "please let us keep the FACO? pretty please?"

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2018, 09:12
by Dragon029
Courtesy of an Italian dual-citizen I know; apparently she's been misquoted due to the ambiguity of the words she used:

https://www.nextquotidiano.it/elisabetta-trenta-f-35/

They haven't decided to cut orders yet (as of 23 hours ago, when she posted this on Facebook), but are instead performing an assessment of the program and will make a decision in the near future. She also acknowledged that cutting orders could cost them more than keeping the existing planned quantity.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2018, 16:09
by alex_f
I too understood (speaking fluently Italian, btw) that they will not buy any further JSF. But they stick to the order they already placed. Would be too silly to cancel it now. On the other side, with this bunch of idiots in power right now, it wouldn't really surprise me if they did.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2018, 16:10
by geforcerfx
So 15 A's and 15 B's, not much a force worth dealing with, I would look into converting the entire order to B's, at leas you have the one common type than can be used from your carrier and islands then.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2018, 17:00
by spazsinbad
With that option ALL Bs costing more money I cannot see it happening - meanwhile perhaps a better ENGLISH translation:
Italy says won't buy more F-35 fighter jets, may cut existing order
07 Jul 2018 Reuters Staff

"ROME (Reuters) - Italy will not buy more Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets and is considering whether to stick to the order to which it is already committed, Defence Minister Elisabetta Trenta said on Friday. Trenta comes from the anti-establishment 5-Star Movement which has always been critical of NATO member Italy’s order for 90 of the planes, saying the money could be better spent to boost welfare and help the sluggish economy.

“We won’t buy any more F-35s,” Trenta said in a television interview with private broadcaster La 7. “We are assessing what to do regarding the contracts already in place.”

She spelled out several reasons to be cautious, saying that “strong financial penalties” could mean that “scrapping the order could cost us more than maintaining it.” She also cited benefits in terms of technology and research in Italy linked to the planes, as well as jobs that would be lost....

...However, Trenta said she saw merit in stretching out the purchases in order to free up resources for investments in European defense projects. Some 5-Star officials said last year that Italy should cancel the order for the fighters altogether, but Trenta made clear she had reservations about this. “No one is hiding the fact we have always been critical ... In view of the existing contracts signed by the previous government, we are carrying out a careful assessment that exclusively considers the national interest,” she said...."

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ital ... SKBN1JW28M

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 11:13
by jakobs
Isn't the current order for 90 planes?

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 15:21
by spazsinbad
LM F-35 Fast Facts repeats numberwize what is in this PDF:
"...Planned Italian Procurement
According to the official U.S. government program of record, Italy intends to procure a total of 90 F-35s. Under
the current plan, Aeronautica Militare is programmed to receive 60 F-35A CTOLs and 15 F-35B STOVLs, while
Marina Militare is programmed to acquire 15 F-35B STOVLs...." https://www.f35.com/assets/uploads/docu ... nglish.pdf (1.3Mb)

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 16:26
by geforcerfx
jakobs wrote:Isn't the current order for 90 planes?


That was there procurement plan, but they have only ordered 30 so far (15 A 15 B). It's the same for most of the partners, the USA intends to buy over 2,000 F-35s between the services, but we haven't ordered them all yet.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 03:57
by Dragon029
alex_f wrote:I too understood (speaking fluently Italian, btw) that they will not buy any further JSF. But they stick to the order they already placed. Would be too silly to cancel it now. On the other side, with this bunch of idiots in power right now, it wouldn't really surprise me if they did.


The question though is what 'more' / 'further' means; more than the ~30 jets paid for or the 90 aircraft program of record? If she's talking about not buying any more than the ~30 ordered, then how does one cut back on existing orders? Sell existing jets / parts in production to other F-35 customers?

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 04:41
by spazsinbad
Yep there are 'weasel' words indeed about such matters - Canada now has 88 F-35 aircraft on 'program of record'. sheesh.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 09 Jul 2018, 06:43
by Corsair1963
If, we had a dollar for every time Italy said they would leave the F-35 Program. All of the members could retire..... :wink:

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 13 Jul 2018, 00:06
by nutshell
pron wrote:News from Italy today.

ROME - The new Minister of Defence, Elisabetta Trenta, announced that Italy “will no longer be buying any F-35 planes” in an interview on the La7 Omnibus program on Friday.

“We have always been critics of the program and not afraid to hide it”, wrote the Minister on Facebook in a post where she shared the interview. “We will no longer invest in new fighter planes, and as for the contracts which have already been signed by the previous executive, we are carrying out a careful evaluation that exclusively takes into account the national interest.”


The only reason for keeping the current contracts would be because “we could find that terminating the contracts costs more than maintaining them. Around the F-35 there is technological activity, important research and of course employment which would be cut in turn. This is why we have to take care with our evaluation.”

http://www.italianinsider.it/?q=node/6962



I watch LA7 very often, that simply never happends.

She infact confirmed Italy commitment to the JSF only few days ago.

Fake news.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 13 Jul 2018, 00:12
by nutshell
Corsair1963 wrote:If, we had a dollar for every time Italy said they would leave the F-35 Program. All of the members could retire..... :wink:


Errrr no?

M5S and some noise from the right party, other than that nothing really.

F35 never been in discussion, not even under Monti's legislature.

Our defense minister said it clearly: Leonardo would go ham with legal actions.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 13 Jul 2018, 01:36
by talkitron
The M5S party is the largest in the current governing coalition and some individual members have some non-traditional defense policy views. In addition to not liking the F-35, this article mentions allowing military members to join a labor union or "syndicate".

http://www.italianinsider.it/?q=node/5355

Here is the current defense minister, who is said to be a member of the M5S party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabetta_Trenta

Nutshell, thanks for clarifying what might be incorrect translations of what the defense minister said in an interview about the F-35.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 24 Oct 2018, 21:17
by talkitron
Italy will moderately cut its already low defense budget. It will cancel Tornado upgrades and slow down F-35 purchases.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... Ns.twitter

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 25 Oct 2018, 13:36
by hythelday
talkitron wrote:Italy will moderately cut its already low defense budget. It will cancel Tornado upgrades and slow down F-35 purchases.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... Ns.twitter


This week European Comission asked Italy to review its budget, present a new one within three werks. Let's see how it plays out in the end (the chances that Italy increases defence budget are... slim)

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 25 Oct 2018, 13:57
by marsavian
On the bright side F-35 is not being cut which considering where Five Star started out is an achievement. Be thankful for small mercies ;).

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 10 Nov 2018, 07:59
by spazsinbad
Italy signals slowdown on F-35 orders
09 Nov 2018 Tom Kington

"ROME — Italy will stretch out the order of F-35 fighter jets, buying six or seven of the aircraft in the next five years instead of the previously planned 10 jets, a government source told Defense News....

...The source said the plan did not envisage a reduction in orders, merely a slowdown of intake, which would leave the decision of the total F-35 purchase to a future government. Previous governments planned to buy 60 F-35As and 30 F-35Bs for a total of 90 aircraft. The new government will focus on spending plans over its five-year mandate and not beyond, the source said, adding that discussions are underway with the U.S. about the change in schedule....

...Italy has taken delivery of 10 F-35As and one F-35B. Two of the "A" models as well as the "B" model are being used for training in the U.S., while eight "A" models are now based at the Italian Air Force’s base in Amendola, southern Italy...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/11 ... 35-orders/

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 20 Dec 2018, 17:35
by krorvik
Looks like even the former opposing party in Italy is realising what the plane can do:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... alflow+DFN

No words on the rumored acquisition slowdown - but this might be prepping to let the program run it's course.w

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 20 Dec 2018, 17:50
by steve2267

Italian Government Praise for F-35Shows Early Doubts Waning

...
“It is obvious we cannot deprive our Air Force of a great air capability that puts us ahead of many other countries,” said junior defense minister Angelo Tofalo during a speech in Italy’s parliament this week.
...



Who doesn’t like to be in the lead, and better than everyone else? Everyone likes to be a winner. Never get between a politician and a microphone from which he can declare his winning ways...

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 20 Dec 2018, 18:45
by talkitron
The assembly facility in the Piedmont probably helps with the popularity of the F-35 in domestic politics. A similar dynamic might be in play in Japan, which just upped its order for F-35s.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 04:10
by element1loop
steve2267 wrote:
Who doesn’t like to be in the lead, and better than everyone else? Everyone likes to be a winner. Never get between a politician and a microphone from which he can declare his winning ways...


We have another version of that, "Never ever get ­in between a State Premier and a bucket full of money." - former prime minister Paul Keating.

Bottom line though, Italy doesn't even have an empty bucket.

Re: F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Unread postPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 21:54
by spazsinbad
Italy Air Force chief attacks F-35 ‘uncertainty’ in Rome
13 Mar 2019 Tom Kington

"ROME – The head of the Italian Air Force has launched an unusually forthright attack on the Italian government’s see-sawing commitment to the F-35 program, and has claimed Rome owes Lockheed Martin €389 million ($439 million) for delivered aircraft. Gen. Alberto Rosso told Italy’s parliament on Tuesday that he felt “strongly concerned about the uncertainty” affecting the F-35 program in Italy “and the eventual hypothesis of a drop in numbers” or orders.

“Any alternative to the F-35 would certainly be older, outdated, less efficient and more expensive aircraft,” he told a joint session of the Lower House and Senate defence committees. Rosso’s speech followed months of ambivalence about the F-35 from Italy’s populist coalition government which took office last year.

One of the parties making up the coalition, Five Star, promised while in opposition to scrap Italy’s plan to order 90 aircraft for its air force and navy, but since taking office the new government’s defense minister — who was nominated by Five Star — has stuck with the program....

...General Rosso said he was “worried” about the program, which he called “the future of the Italian Air Force.” “Slow downs or reductions in numbers are extremely worrying for operational capability, for national industry and the economic benefits [the program]brings,” he said. He also confirmed Italian press reports this week that Italy is behind on payments to Lockheed Martin for aircraft, with €389 million in bills from 2018 still to be paid.

Italy is about to take delivery of its 12th F-35, has 25 trained pilots and declared initial operating capability in November...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... y-in-rome/

Italy's Salvini Defends F-35 Orders As Necessary for Country

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2019, 02:24
by Corsair1963
Italy's Salvini Defends F-35 Orders As Necessary for Country

By Steve Scherer, Giuseppe Fonte


ROME --- Italian Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini on Thursday defended the country’s plans to buy 90 Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets, following recent media reports suggesting that the order would be slashed back.

“Any effort to slow or review (purchases of the F-35) I would consider harmful” for the country, Salvini told reporters in Rome.

The comments by Salvini, who leads the ruling far-right League party, follow unsourced reports at the weekend in the Italian media saying Defence Minister Elisabetta Trenta was planning to slash the F-35 orders by two-thirds.

Trenta is from the populist 5-Star Movement, the League’s governing partner. 5-Star has always been critical of the F-35 purchases, saying the money could be better spent on welfare or to boost the economy, now in its third recession in a decade.

Last July, Trenta announced she was reviewing the F-35 orders, while noting that the penalties for scrapping the orders might be more costly than maintaining them.

After Salvini’s comments, Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, who is not a member of either party, met with Trenta to discuss the F-35.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ital ... QV27K?il=0

Re: Italy's Salvini Defends F-35 Orders As Necessary for Cou

Unread postPosted: 18 Mar 2019, 19:33
by commisar
Corsair1963 wrote:Italy's Salvini Defends F-35 Orders As Necessary for Country

By Steve Scherer, Giuseppe Fonte


ROME --- Italian Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini on Thursday defended the country’s plans to buy 90 Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets, following recent media reports suggesting that the order would be slashed back.

“Any effort to slow or review (purchases of the F-35) I would consider harmful” for the country, Salvini told reporters in Rome.

The comments by Salvini, who leads the ruling far-right League party, follow unsourced reports at the weekend in the Italian media saying Defence Minister Elisabetta Trenta was planning to slash the F-35 orders by two-thirds.

Trenta is from the populist 5-Star Movement, the League’s governing partner. 5-Star has always been critical of the F-35 purchases, saying the money could be better spent on welfare or to boost the economy, now in its third recession in a decade.

Last July, Trenta announced she was reviewing the F-35 orders, while noting that the penalties for scrapping the orders might be more costly than maintaining them.

After Salvini’s comments, Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, who is not a member of either party, met with Trenta to discuss the F-35.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ital ... QV27K?il=0


Good news that some sense is being spoken in regards to the Italian AF.

Re: Italy's Salvini Defends F-35 Orders As Necessary for Cou

Unread postPosted: 19 Mar 2019, 10:30
by Corsair1963
commisar wrote:
Good news that some sense is being spoken in regards to the Italian AF.



Actually, the Italian Air Force has always been very supportive of the F-35 Program. Just the Italian Politicians causing all of the drama and for political gain in the process....(surprise surprise)


As a matter of fact Italy would have made a lot of money on the F-35 Program. If, the politician hadn't cut it back! Then they have the "nerve" to complain about the cost and money spent! :doh: