F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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nutshell

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Unread post13 Jul 2018, 00:06

pron wrote:News from Italy today.

ROME - The new Minister of Defence, Elisabetta Trenta, announced that Italy “will no longer be buying any F-35 planes” in an interview on the La7 Omnibus program on Friday.

“We have always been critics of the program and not afraid to hide it”, wrote the Minister on Facebook in a post where she shared the interview. “We will no longer invest in new fighter planes, and as for the contracts which have already been signed by the previous executive, we are carrying out a careful evaluation that exclusively takes into account the national interest.”


The only reason for keeping the current contracts would be because “we could find that terminating the contracts costs more than maintaining them. Around the F-35 there is technological activity, important research and of course employment which would be cut in turn. This is why we have to take care with our evaluation.”

http://www.italianinsider.it/?q=node/6962



I watch LA7 very often, that simply never happends.

She infact confirmed Italy commitment to the JSF only few days ago.

Fake news.
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nutshell

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Unread post13 Jul 2018, 00:12

Corsair1963 wrote:If, we had a dollar for every time Italy said they would leave the F-35 Program. All of the members could retire..... :wink:


Errrr no?

M5S and some noise from the right party, other than that nothing really.

F35 never been in discussion, not even under Monti's legislature.

Our defense minister said it clearly: Leonardo would go ham with legal actions.
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talkitron

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Unread post13 Jul 2018, 01:36

The M5S party is the largest in the current governing coalition and some individual members have some non-traditional defense policy views. In addition to not liking the F-35, this article mentions allowing military members to join a labor union or "syndicate".

http://www.italianinsider.it/?q=node/5355

Here is the current defense minister, who is said to be a member of the M5S party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabetta_Trenta

Nutshell, thanks for clarifying what might be incorrect translations of what the defense minister said in an interview about the F-35.
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talkitron

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Unread post24 Oct 2018, 21:17

Italy will moderately cut its already low defense budget. It will cancel Tornado upgrades and slow down F-35 purchases.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... Ns.twitter
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hythelday

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Unread post25 Oct 2018, 13:36

talkitron wrote:Italy will moderately cut its already low defense budget. It will cancel Tornado upgrades and slow down F-35 purchases.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... Ns.twitter


This week European Comission asked Italy to review its budget, present a new one within three werks. Let's see how it plays out in the end (the chances that Italy increases defence budget are... slim)
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marsavian

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Unread post25 Oct 2018, 13:57

On the bright side F-35 is not being cut which considering where Five Star started out is an achievement. Be thankful for small mercies ;).
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Unread post10 Nov 2018, 07:59

Italy signals slowdown on F-35 orders
09 Nov 2018 Tom Kington

"ROME — Italy will stretch out the order of F-35 fighter jets, buying six or seven of the aircraft in the next five years instead of the previously planned 10 jets, a government source told Defense News....

...The source said the plan did not envisage a reduction in orders, merely a slowdown of intake, which would leave the decision of the total F-35 purchase to a future government. Previous governments planned to buy 60 F-35As and 30 F-35Bs for a total of 90 aircraft. The new government will focus on spending plans over its five-year mandate and not beyond, the source said, adding that discussions are underway with the U.S. about the change in schedule....

...Italy has taken delivery of 10 F-35As and one F-35B. Two of the "A" models as well as the "B" model are being used for training in the U.S., while eight "A" models are now based at the Italian Air Force’s base in Amendola, southern Italy...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/11 ... 35-orders/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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krorvik

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Unread post20 Dec 2018, 17:35

Looks like even the former opposing party in Italy is realising what the plane can do:

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... alflow+DFN

No words on the rumored acquisition slowdown - but this might be prepping to let the program run it's course.w
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steve2267

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Unread post20 Dec 2018, 17:50


Italian Government Praise for F-35Shows Early Doubts Waning

...
“It is obvious we cannot deprive our Air Force of a great air capability that puts us ahead of many other countries,” said junior defense minister Angelo Tofalo during a speech in Italy’s parliament this week.
...



Who doesn’t like to be in the lead, and better than everyone else? Everyone likes to be a winner. Never get between a politician and a microphone from which he can declare his winning ways...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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talkitron

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Unread post20 Dec 2018, 18:45

The assembly facility in the Piedmont probably helps with the popularity of the F-35 in domestic politics. A similar dynamic might be in play in Japan, which just upped its order for F-35s.
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element1loop

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Unread post21 Dec 2018, 04:10

steve2267 wrote:
Who doesn’t like to be in the lead, and better than everyone else? Everyone likes to be a winner. Never get between a politician and a microphone from which he can declare his winning ways...


We have another version of that, "Never ever get ­in between a State Premier and a bucket full of money." - former prime minister Paul Keating.

Bottom line though, Italy doesn't even have an empty bucket.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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Unread post14 Mar 2019, 21:54

Italy Air Force chief attacks F-35 ‘uncertainty’ in Rome
13 Mar 2019 Tom Kington

"ROME – The head of the Italian Air Force has launched an unusually forthright attack on the Italian government’s see-sawing commitment to the F-35 program, and has claimed Rome owes Lockheed Martin €389 million ($439 million) for delivered aircraft. Gen. Alberto Rosso told Italy’s parliament on Tuesday that he felt “strongly concerned about the uncertainty” affecting the F-35 program in Italy “and the eventual hypothesis of a drop in numbers” or orders.

“Any alternative to the F-35 would certainly be older, outdated, less efficient and more expensive aircraft,” he told a joint session of the Lower House and Senate defence committees. Rosso’s speech followed months of ambivalence about the F-35 from Italy’s populist coalition government which took office last year.

One of the parties making up the coalition, Five Star, promised while in opposition to scrap Italy’s plan to order 90 aircraft for its air force and navy, but since taking office the new government’s defense minister — who was nominated by Five Star — has stuck with the program....

...General Rosso said he was “worried” about the program, which he called “the future of the Italian Air Force.” “Slow downs or reductions in numbers are extremely worrying for operational capability, for national industry and the economic benefits [the program]brings,” he said. He also confirmed Italian press reports this week that Italy is behind on payments to Lockheed Martin for aircraft, with €389 million in bills from 2018 still to be paid.

Italy is about to take delivery of its 12th F-35, has 25 trained pilots and declared initial operating capability in November...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... y-in-rome/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Corsair1963

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Unread post18 Mar 2019, 02:24

Italy's Salvini Defends F-35 Orders As Necessary for Country

By Steve Scherer, Giuseppe Fonte


ROME --- Italian Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini on Thursday defended the country’s plans to buy 90 Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets, following recent media reports suggesting that the order would be slashed back.

“Any effort to slow or review (purchases of the F-35) I would consider harmful” for the country, Salvini told reporters in Rome.

The comments by Salvini, who leads the ruling far-right League party, follow unsourced reports at the weekend in the Italian media saying Defence Minister Elisabetta Trenta was planning to slash the F-35 orders by two-thirds.

Trenta is from the populist 5-Star Movement, the League’s governing partner. 5-Star has always been critical of the F-35 purchases, saying the money could be better spent on welfare or to boost the economy, now in its third recession in a decade.

Last July, Trenta announced she was reviewing the F-35 orders, while noting that the penalties for scrapping the orders might be more costly than maintaining them.

After Salvini’s comments, Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, who is not a member of either party, met with Trenta to discuss the F-35.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ital ... QV27K?il=0
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commisar

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Unread post18 Mar 2019, 19:33

Corsair1963 wrote:Italy's Salvini Defends F-35 Orders As Necessary for Country

By Steve Scherer, Giuseppe Fonte


ROME --- Italian Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini on Thursday defended the country’s plans to buy 90 Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets, following recent media reports suggesting that the order would be slashed back.

“Any effort to slow or review (purchases of the F-35) I would consider harmful” for the country, Salvini told reporters in Rome.

The comments by Salvini, who leads the ruling far-right League party, follow unsourced reports at the weekend in the Italian media saying Defence Minister Elisabetta Trenta was planning to slash the F-35 orders by two-thirds.

Trenta is from the populist 5-Star Movement, the League’s governing partner. 5-Star has always been critical of the F-35 purchases, saying the money could be better spent on welfare or to boost the economy, now in its third recession in a decade.

Last July, Trenta announced she was reviewing the F-35 orders, while noting that the penalties for scrapping the orders might be more costly than maintaining them.

After Salvini’s comments, Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, who is not a member of either party, met with Trenta to discuss the F-35.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ital ... QV27K?il=0


Good news that some sense is being spoken in regards to the Italian AF.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post19 Mar 2019, 10:30

commisar wrote:
Good news that some sense is being spoken in regards to the Italian AF.



Actually, the Italian Air Force has always been very supportive of the F-35 Program. Just the Italian Politicians causing all of the drama and for political gain in the process....(surprise surprise)


As a matter of fact Italy would have made a lot of money on the F-35 Program. If, the politician hadn't cut it back! Then they have the "nerve" to complain about the cost and money spent! :doh:
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