F-35 - The Italian Perspective

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Apr 2018, 09:27

ONE DAY strike people - geez that is a REAL BLOW. <sarc off>
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weasel1962

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Unread post23 Apr 2018, 09:44

Cameri was originally set up to handle 216 production units (131 Italian and 85 Dutch). Now the orders have shrunk to 90+29 = 119. No problemo? I think the workers would be happier if there was really more work.
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sunstersun

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Unread post23 Apr 2018, 16:13

man how are the dutch only order 37? They danes are ordering 28 and the Norwegians are ordering 52. Isn't netherlands like the 6th biggest economy in the EU after big 3 + italy spain?
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botsing

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Unread post23 Apr 2018, 16:30

sunstersun wrote:man how are the dutch only order 37? They danes are ordering 28 and the Norwegians are ordering 52. Isn't netherlands like the 6th biggest economy in the EU after big 3 + italy spain?

Whether that number is large or small depends on what metric you will use for your comparison.

If for example we take the area to defend, then The Netherlands will have more than three times as many F-35's per square mile than the USA:
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nutshell

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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 04:41

They sounds like they're working for free and illegally...

...f@ing spoiled cunts.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post26 Apr 2018, 21:19

Italian Air Force Commander On How F-35 Will Transform The Service
24 Apr 2018 Tony Osborne

"Italy’s challenging economic climate is perhaps not the most conducive for evolving an air force, yet the nation is now taking deliveries of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF), maritime patrol aircraft, jet trainers and new intelligence-gathering assets. Aviation Week London Bureau Chief Tony Osborne caught up with the Italian Air Force commander, Enzo Vecciarelli, to find out how this evolution is gaining pace.

What will the F-35 bring to the Italian Air Force? Gen. Vecciarelli: The F-35 is the aircraft suitable and necessary for new-generation scenarios. It is not just a fighter but also the best asset that can be used in a growing number of hybrid situations to achieve information superiority.

It seems that the F-35 is not a popular program with Italian politicians. How do you convince them of the aircraft’s attributes? Our political leadership is aware of the importance of the JSF program and the tremendous enhancement this asset will bring to the capabilities of the defense ministry. Even when severe budget constraints forced a decrease in the number of acquisitions, Italy’s participation in the program has never been in doubt.

When do you hope to declare the F-35 operational? We are on track to achieve initial operational capability (IOC) by the end of 2018. IOC depends upon several parameters. These include the appropriate number of aircraft being delivered to the operational units, the proper level of training and expertise for personnel and the software block upgrade that will enable us to employ the appropriate weapons for the assigned missions.

You are planning to host the first fifth-generation Tactical Leadership Program exercise at Amendola AB [to train NATO aircrews how to work better in a coalition operation]. Are other F-35 nations interested in the exercise? Because Amendola is the first European F-35 operational base, it is fully up to speed to host fifth-generation assets for deployment, exercises and real operations. Therefore, we have offered our partner nations the chance to perform the fourth 2018 TLP course over our territory. This represents the first opportunity in Europe to host training activities involving the F-35, fostering interoperability between fourth- and fifth-generation assets during complex and advanced missions. All the TLP-signing nations have shown great interest; there is an initial bidding [to take part in] the course for approximately 50 aircraft....

...Many other air forces face personnel retention and pilot shortages. Is this the same for Italy, and if so, how are you combating the situation? Pilot shortage seems to be widespread across many air forces, and we are not immune. So far, our selection process and in-house training capabilities allow us to retain an acceptable ratio between the fielding of newly trained pilots and the replacement of experienced ones who reach the end of their flying duties. The biggest challenge now is the need to train pilots for the new F-35 operational squadrons while maintaining operational capabilities on the other fighter components. We’re focusing on an efficient training system that shortens [F-35] training time while allowing pilots to quickly become up to speed with the operational environments and complexity of the new information-management systems on the aircraft...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/italian ... rm-service
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spazsinbad

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Unread post26 May 2018, 05:56

Will they - Won't they - it is a Magical Mystery Tour of potential Italian Politics and their Defence (Industry) nobody knows.
Future of F-35 in Italy remains a mystery under new government
25 May 2018 Tom Kington

"Two populist parties on the brink of forming Italy’s first populist government claim strong backing to the country’s defense industry, marking a change of tack after earlier criticism of the sector. The anti-establishment Five Star Movement, which has won votes crusading against political corruption, has teamed with the anti-migrant League party to form a government which may be sworn in next week. The two parties, which formed a coalition after inconclusive elections in March left Italy with a hung parliament, are currently drawing up a list of ministers.

Five Star has traditionally opposed investment in the defense industry and elected members of the party last year vowed to pull Italy out of the F-35 program if they came to power….

...The F-35 progam is not mentioned, and one senior political source told Defense News its omission meant neither one thing or an other. “It just means we don’t know what they are going to do,” said the source. One analyst said that until the equilibrium in the coalition between the two parties was better known, and until a new defense minister was appointed, it was hard to tell what Italy’s next government will do about the F-35 and defense spending in general…."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... overnment/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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nutshell

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Unread post02 Jun 2018, 20:45

It seems that F35 cuts magically disappeared from the government agreement that M5S and Lega Nord signed.

Too early to celebrate because there are too many fale news around it (most of them coming out Germany).

Feel optimistic.
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weasel1962

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Unread post02 Jun 2018, 21:33

M5S had threatened to cancel the F-35 program. The new defense minister is Elisabetta Trenta who is from M5S. Agree too early to see how things go but with the big debt situation to tackle, even keeping the status quo would be seen as a victory for the italian f-35 program.
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nutshell

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Unread post03 Jun 2018, 02:16

weasel1962 wrote:M5S had threatened to cancel the F-35 program. The new defense minister is Elisabetta Trenta who is from M5S. Agree too early to see how things go but with the big debt situation to tackle, even keeping the status quo would be seen as a victory for the italian f-35 program.


She also served in the Army as a captain. Worked along the army in Iraqi, Lebanon and Libya; her husband is an Army officer.
I'm expecting her to seal the deal with the F35.

The focus on balancing the GDP with the debt is defenetively shifted elsewhere.
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weasel1962

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Unread post03 Jun 2018, 07:23

nutshell wrote:She also served in the Army as a captain. Worked along the army in Iraqi, Lebanon and Libya; her husband is an Army officer.
I'm expecting her to seal the deal with the F35.

The focus on balancing the GDP with the debt is defenetively shifted elsewhere.


Yup, just read thru her CV. Very impressive. Speaks 4 languages, served in the forces/UNIFIL, technical expert etc. Husbands works as a colonel in the directorate of armaments so should have some to advise in procurement.

What will reassure is that she is the moderate voice in the party whereas the other defense minister candidate Guido Crosseto was really the F-35 critic. Having said that, I don't think defence would be entirely immune from the debt issue. She wrote an article on defence/war by proxy at CEMISS which may suggest a non-interventionist role (i.e. less defence required). We live in interesting times.
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steve2267

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Unread post03 Jun 2018, 11:57

weasel1962 wrote:She wrote an article on defence/war by proxy at CEMISS which may suggest a non-interventionist role (i.e. less defence required). We live in interesting times.


F-35 may function as a proxy enabler: it may be easier to convince some folks to be your boots on the ground if they believe you will provide them air cover / support.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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nutshell

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Unread post03 Jun 2018, 12:43

More words from both Di Maio and Salvini.

Again no mention to f35 purge. All about Formero's Reform and Renzi's Job Act.

I'm actually believing they really let the F35 out from the govt program. Cool cool.
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gideonic

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Unread post08 Jun 2018, 09:49

So the Italian vice prime minister met with the Russian ambassador. Seems they want to stop NATO from protecting against "nonexistent" threats in the East and worry "about the South". They also want to veto any sanctions against Russia. Going against the F-35 (as a symbol of transatlantic cooperation) looks like the next logical step.
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nutshell

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Unread post09 Jun 2018, 19:55

Crap.
Italy got damaged big time by the sanctions because we export a huge deal of goods to Russia.
What Salvini is asking is logical And responsible since he's the vice prime Minister.
This is what we missed in the past 8 years, politicians that are taking care of national interests.

BTW, Di Maio said he want to strengthen our position in the Alliance and he clearly stated we've no better and bigger ally than the US. Hence, F35 is safe, our place in Nato is safe, we are no Turkey.
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