JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

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quicksilver

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Unread post25 May 2020, 21:50

“And so... why is this point not showing up in foreign competitions? If the F-35's software is so good at taking brand spanking new/marginal pilots and making them efficient killing machines, why don't we hear more about it?“ — mix

We do.

See Jon Beesley section —

“ It’s the part of the airplane that people don’t understand. The F-35 is as maneuverable as any other airplane, except perhaps the F-22. Russian airplanes are also very maneuverable, but if you dig into [the Russian demonstrations of maneuverability], what you’re seeing is the capabilities of airplanes flown by exceptional pilots. What we were building with the F-35 is an airplane that everybody can fly. That’s the critical part of it.”

https://www.airspacemag.com/military-av ... 180971734/

There is also a quote from a pilot in one of the commercial aggressor squadrons who offered an observation about how good the jet was, even in the hands of FRS students. Was in reference to flights w VMFAT-501 at Beaufort a couple years ago. Then there were the comments from a senior USAF leader in reference to the performance of a young Marine F-35 flight lead during night LFE (at the first Red Flag participation iirc).

There are plenty of references...some simply choose not to pay attention for one reason or another. Another from Italian pilots at this link — https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 19-4%3famp

And this from Feb ‘19 — “One pilot who flew in the exercise reported that even novice pilots were quickly “killing” fourth generation aircraft during air-to-air combat. “My wingman was a brand new F-35A pilot, seven or eight flights out of training,” Col. Joshua Wood, 388th Operations Group commander, said in a news release. "He gets on the radio and tells an experienced, 3,000-hour pilot in a very capable fourth-generation aircraft: ‘Hey bud, you need to turn around. You’re about to die. There’s a threat off your nose.’”

https://www.acc.af.mil/News/Article-Dis ... -red-flag/

Need I say more? :wink:
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Gamera

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Unread post26 May 2020, 11:39

For comparison:
Amongst Japanese military aviation fans, is a story about when USAF F-15s were new to Japan, during a joint JASDF-USAF exercise, a JASDF experienced pilot in an old F-104 "shot down" an USAF less-experienced pilot in a new F-15.
I forgot where I on-line read the gory details of the fight, so I don't have a definite source.

To be brief:
In the air, the USAF pilot was surprised when he was "shot down".
On the ground, during the debriefing, the JASDF pilot explained, soon after the two F-104s and two F-15s engaged, the F-104 pilot saw the F-15 was alone, and ordered the F-104 wingman to bait the F-15.
The F-15 chased the F-104 wingman, and the F-104 leader ambushed the F-15.

But overall, during the rest of the exercise, the F-15s overwhelmed the JASDF fighters.
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blindpilot

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Unread post26 May 2020, 17:13

Gamera wrote:..., the F-104 pilot saw the F-15 was alone, and ordered the F-104 wingman to bait the F-15.
The F-15 chased the F-104 wingman, and the F-104 leader ambushed the F-15.


This may be a classic view into what is different with 5th Gen/F-35 tactics.
In 4th gen world the old salt IP would debrief the low time guy to "watch out for ambushers." Get experience ladida ladida...

In the F-35 the rookie looks at you crooked and says, "Huh? What are you talking about ... what's an ambush ... everything is right here in front of me ..." He doesn't even know what not having perfect SA looks like ... he just shoots down both F-104's (Mig 21s's) maybe using an SM-6 from a destroyer ... who knows?.... "what's that IP babbling about?"

MHO,
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Gamera

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Unread post26 May 2020, 18:56

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AD ... C%E3%80%8D

Japanese wiki has a concise article about said JASDF pilot, Iwasaki Takahiro.
Callsign Rock.

In 1995 July, after he retired as Lieutenant Colonel, he became an air show pilot.

In 2005 April, while practising for an air show, his aircraft crashed, he didn't bail out, and he bought the farm.
He was 53.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post30 Jun 2020, 21:51

Japan begins refitting first of two Izumo-class carriers to support F-35B operations
30 Jun 2020 Kosuke Takahashi

"Tokyo has begun the process of converting the first of two Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) Izumo-class helicopter carriers into aircraft carriers capable of supporting the operations of the short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)....

...Janes understands that the modifications will be made in two main stages meant to coincide with the vessel’s periodic refit and overhaul programmes, which take place every five years.

While initial modifications are taking place during the refit and overhaul planned for this fiscal year, the final changes are only expected to be made during the vessel’s next overhaul in FY 2025, after which a series of tests and sea trials are expected to follow.

The 248 m-long, 24,000-tonne Izumo class has been built with weight considerations for the F-35B in various parts, including the stowage, elevators, and flight deck. However, further modifications are needed such as reinforcing the flight deck to support additional weight, placing additional guidance lights, and fitting the ship with heat-resistant deck spots for vertical landings, among other things.

It is still unclear, however, whether a ski-jump will be added."

Photo: "JMSDF helicopter carrier JS Izumo is seen here on 30 June undergoing a refit at the JMU Corporation’s Isogo shipyard in Yokohama City. The JMSDF has begun the process of converting Izumo into an aircraft carrier capable of supporting F-35B operations. (Kosuke Takahashi)" https://www.janes.com/images/default-so ... w-6762.jpg


Source: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... operations
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Corsair1963

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Unread post01 Jul 2020, 06:48

Hard to believe that it "wouldn't" have a Ski Jump??? :|
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spazsinbad

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Unread post01 Jul 2020, 06:56

Deck is approx. 800 feet long (maybe not quite because of other stuff) so without the ski jump it is very usable deck.

https://southfront.org/wp-content/uploa ... 2_700b.jpg
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Corsair1963

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Unread post01 Jul 2020, 07:09

spazsinbad wrote:
Deck is approx. 800 feet long (maybe not quite because of other stuff) so without the ski jump it is very usable deck.


True but even with that length a ski jump would still offer considerable benefit.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post01 Jul 2020, 08:26

No question about benefit of a ski jump however there may be other considerations similar to the USMC 'no jumpisky' eh.
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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Corsair1963

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Unread post01 Jul 2020, 09:51

spazsinbad wrote:No question about benefit of a ski jump however there may be other considerations similar to the USMC 'no jumpisky' eh.



Maybe....only time will tell :wink:
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mixelflick

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Unread post01 Jul 2020, 13:59

quicksilver wrote:“And so... why is this point not showing up in foreign competitions? If the F-35's software is so good at taking brand spanking new/marginal pilots and making them efficient killing machines, why don't we hear more about it?“ — mix

We do.

See Jon Beesley section —

“ It’s the part of the airplane that people don’t understand. The F-35 is as maneuverable as any other airplane, except perhaps the F-22. Russian airplanes are also very maneuverable, but if you dig into [the Russian demonstrations of maneuverability], what you’re seeing is the capabilities of airplanes flown by exceptional pilots. What we were building with the F-35 is an airplane that everybody can fly. That’s the critical part of it.”

https://www.airspacemag.com/military-av ... 180971734/

There is also a quote from a pilot in one of the commercial aggressor squadrons who offered an observation about how good the jet was, even in the hands of FRS students. Was in reference to flights w VMFAT-501 at Beaufort a couple years ago. Then there were the comments from a senior USAF leader in reference to the performance of a young Marine F-35 flight lead during night LFE (at the first Red Flag participation iirc).

There are plenty of references...some simply choose not to pay attention for one reason or another. Another from Italian pilots at this link — https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.busine ... 19-4%3famp

And this from Feb ‘19 — “One pilot who flew in the exercise reported that even novice pilots were quickly “killing” fourth generation aircraft during air-to-air combat. “My wingman was a brand new F-35A pilot, seven or eight flights out of training,” Col. Joshua Wood, 388th Operations Group commander, said in a news release. "He gets on the radio and tells an experienced, 3,000-hour pilot in a very capable fourth-generation aircraft: ‘Hey bud, you need to turn around. You’re about to die. There’s a threat off your nose.’”

https://www.acc.af.mil/News/Article-Dis ... -red-flag/

Need I say more? :wink:


Yes, good point(s). I guess I was thinking about John Q. Public, who instead of looking for these reports is baited by National Interest articles highlighting "800+ operational deficiencies, still unresolved". I know, I know - it's sad. But that's the general public's impression. To be fair though, the USAF F-35 Demo Team is changing minds. They've done a brilliant job getting the truth out there, in a sexy and unmistakable way via their people, aircraft, demos and social media campaign.

Hopefully from here, it continues to improve..
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