JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2013, 11:51
by popcorn
The F-35 would be well-positioned to capitalize should the JASDF decide to replace it's aging Eagles.. would they even bother requesting competing bids?

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 5s-393015/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2013, 18:01
by cantaz
When they say the oldest F-15Js in the fleet, roughly how many aircraft are they talking about?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2013, 22:51
by popcorn
cantaz wrote:When they say the oldest F-15Js in the fleet, roughly how many aircraft are they talking about?


No numbers were given. More related articles on the JASDF for context.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... on-377060/
http://www.janes.com/article/29978/japa ... e-fighters

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2013, 16:30
by cantaz
The FG article seems to forget that even though the F-35 is a strike fighter, many of the original program partners intended to utilize it for air sovereignty missions. Japan's choice makes sense without resorting to claims about political ties.

I suppose with so many users operating the F-35 as a front line fighter, the 6 internal AMRAAM mod may hopefully be sooner than later. Did Japan ask for AAM-4 integration?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Nov 2013, 14:44
by hornetfinn
cantaz wrote:The FG article seems to forget that even though the F-35 is a strike fighter, many of the original program partners intended to utilize it for air sovereignty missions. Japan's choice makes sense without resorting to claims about political ties.

I suppose with so many users operating the F-35 as a front line fighter, the 6 internal AMRAAM mod may hopefully be sooner than later. Did Japan ask for AAM-4 integration?


Well, many seem to mistake Strike Fighters to Attack Aircraft or Light Bombers, even though it simply means multi-role aircraft with more emphasis on ground attack than in basic fighter aircraft. Of course nowadays pretty much every fighter is multi-role to some degree. But compared to F-22, F-35 is really multi-role as it will have vastly superior sensors, weapons system and weapon compatibility for air to ground work. Of course it will also have extremely good air to air capabilities, mainly due to stealth, sensors and CNI system. Even US forces will use F-35 as the main platform for air to air work as it will be the fighter aircraft for USN and USMC. Only USAF has an aircraft designed for air to air work in F-22 and even those are in rather limited number. I'm pretty sure there will be rather strong push for 6 internal air to air missiles in the future after most prudent capabilities have been fielded. Of course other possible way would be having some aircraft in full VLO status with 4 internal missiles and some aircraft with internal and external weapons backing them up and mopping up any enemy survivors. They'd

I think AAM-4 would likely be too big for internal carry in F-35 as it has quite a bit larger wing/fin span than AMRAAM. Of course with modifications, it might fit but that would probably be prohibitively expensive. External carry could probably be used, but that would be expensive too for rather unique capability for small number of missiles as Japan is likely not going to export them for other F-35 users. Of course they have done so with F-15J, so that might not be out of question either. Of course external carry of such missiles would worsen the RCS noticeably, but still would mostly likely be better than any non-5th generation fighter as such missiles have quite low RCS from most directions.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 07:36
by spazsinbad
Japan plans to purchase more F-35s for the defense of Diaoyutai Staff Reporter 14 Jan 2014
"Facing the expanding Chinese air power over the East China Sea, the Japanese defense ministry plans to purchase a total number of 42 Lockheed Martin F-35 fighters from the United States to defend the disputed Diaoyutai islands (called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China), according to the Tokyo-based business daily Nikkei.

The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) decided to purchase the fifth generation stealth fighters to replace its older F-4 Phantom II fighters. In addition to 60 F-4 fighters, the JASDF also operates 200 F-15J and 90 F-2 fighters, the paper said.

The new F-35 fighters are likely to coordinate with F-2s in potential missions to attack the naval and ground forces of the People's Liberation Army, while the F-15J would take care of the Chinese fighters in the sky.

The Japanese defense ministry is also considering upgrading the F-15J fighters under its Mid-term Defense Program. Around 100 of the aircraft's radar systems are not able to be modified, and Tokyo plans to purchase additional F-35s to replace them. This will eventually allow Japan to have at least 142 F-35 stealth fighters. However, the defense ministry will first have to discuss its plans with the finance ministry as the price of a single F-35 can be as high as US$150 million.

Under the new Mid-term Defense Program, the Japanese defense ministry also discussed the possibility of designing or purchasing fighters which can be used to succeed F-2 multirole fighters. The Nikkei reported that Japan is likely to design this new fighter with other nation in a similar way to the United States and its F-35. Meanwhile, the Tokyo-based Kyodo News said that Japan will begin the purchase of its first six F-35 fighters from the United States as early as this March.

For the next five years, Japan will continue its purchase of F-35s and eventually increase the number to 42. In addition to introducing advanced fighters from the United States, the Japanese defense ministry also confirmed that it will spend US$190,000 to modify its three Osumi-class tank landing ships. After the modification, assault amphibious vehicles such as the AAV7 and new aircraft like MV-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft can both be launched from those ships for amphibious warfare over the disputed islands in the East China Sea.

"We can never overlook China's repeated entries into our territorial waters. In addition to diplomatic efforts, we will cooperate with the Coast Guard to securely defend our territory and waters around the Senkaku islands," said Itsunori Onodera, the Japanese defense minister, during his inspection of the new year exercise held by the airborne troops of the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force at Narashino in Chiba prefecture on Jan. 12."

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... ainCatID=0

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 08:08
by spazsinbad
Izumo could serve as Japan's command center in Diaoyutai conflict 14 Jan 2014 Staff Reporter
"The Izumo, Japan's new helicopter carrier, could be used as a command center to coordinate the ground, air and maritime forces of the nation in a potential conflict with China over the disputed Diaoyutai islands (called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China) in the East China Sea, reports the Tokyo-based Kyodo News.

In an article for the paper, Makoto Yamasaki, a retired vice admiral of the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF), stressed that the primary mission of the Izumo is to serve as a flagship with intelligence command capabilities. Equipped with an electronic conference room that can give commands to individual units and an advanced communications system, Japanese military magazine Ships of the World indicated that the Izumo is capable of strengthening the integrated operations of Japan's military as a frontline headquarters.

Military experts said that the Japan Air Self-Defense Force's E-767, E-2C early warning aircraft, F-15J fighters, the JMSDF's P-3C patrol aircraft, destroyers, as well as the Ground Self-Defense Force's anti-aircraft and anti-ship units can all be coordinated on the battlefield once this 248-meter-long vessel with a standard displacement of 19,500 tonnes becomes a frontline HQ.

The Kyodo News also reported that the Izumo may be redesigned as an aircraft carrier when the F-35 fighters begin to arrive in Japan. The Japanese defense ministry, meanwhile, plans to purchase 17 MV-22 Ospreys from the United States to operate from the flight deck of the Izumo by 2018....

...Japan's ground and maritime forces have learned valuable lessons about fighting amphibious warfare through joint exercises with the United States Navy and Marine Corps...."

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... ainCatID=0

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Jan 2014, 03:00
by Corsair1963
Well, Japan didn't agree to set up a production line in Japan for just 42 F-35's. Honestly, I am surprised they have committed to more Lightning's by now...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Feb 2014, 21:27
by maus92
Prices for first lot F-35s destined for Japan rising, future F-35 aircraft built in Japan could be unaffordable:

Future of F-35 Unclear as Costs Mount in Japan
By PAUL KALLENDER-UMEZU
Tuesday Feb 4, 2014


Two years after Japan agreed to buy F-35 joint strike fighters to replace its 1960s-era F-4EJ Kai Phantoms, the government has yet to give more than the vaguest hints about its future fighter replacement plans as the Defense Ministry struggles with a rising tide of costs and difficulties with the troubled stealth fighter program......"

"Under a June 2013 foreign military sales agreement with the US, Japan committed to purchase the first four F-35As at ¥10.2 billion per aircraft, which was about US $124 million each under the exchange rate at the time of ¥82 to the dollar. The price was already at a premium to the ¥9.9 billion originally agreed, due to the then-continuing development and testing difficulties the F-35 program was facing.

Since then, prices have continued to climb, especially with the yen's devaluation, which began last spring and has seen the value fluctuate between ¥95 and ¥105 to the dollar. The price of the first two fighters to be purchased for fiscal 2013 climbed to ¥29.9 billion, and the cost for the next four for fiscal 2014 has risen to ¥63.8 billion, representing a price of nearly ¥16 billion per fighter, Kiyotani said.

Added to this are plant and tooling up costs of ¥83 billion for 2013 and ¥42.4 billion for 2014 as Japanese companies Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mitsubishi Electric and IHI establish assembly and production lines.

Sources here have privately begun to refer to the F-35 deal as a "bottakuri bar," referring to establishments that lure customers of differing degrees of naivety and force them to pay exorbitant bills through a range of excess charges for items not mentioned explicitly on the menu....."

"Pointing out that locally produced versions of US kit generally cost double their US prices -- for example, Kawasaki Heavy Industry's version of the MCH-101 helicopter costs about US $60 million a unit compared to $30 million for the US price -- Kiyotani said the F-35's costs could climb to more than ¥300 billion a fighter....."

Source: http://mobile.defensenews.com/article/302040018

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 06:09
by Corsair1963
maus92 wrote:Prices for first lot F-35s destined for Japan rising, future F-35 aircraft built in Japan could be unaffordable:

Future of F-35 Unclear as Costs Mount in Japan
By PAUL KALLENDER-UMEZU
Tuesday Feb 4, 2014


Two years after Japan agreed to buy F-35 joint strike fighters to replace its 1960s-era F-4EJ Kai Phantoms, the government has yet to give more than the vaguest hints about its future fighter replacement plans as the Defense Ministry struggles with a rising tide of costs and difficulties with the troubled stealth fighter program......"

"Under a June 2013 foreign military sales agreement with the US, Japan committed to purchase the first four F-35As at ¥10.2 billion per aircraft, which was about US $124 million each under the exchange rate at the time of ¥82 to the dollar. The price was already at a premium to the ¥9.9 billion originally agreed, due to the then-continuing development and testing difficulties the F-35 program was facing.

Since then, prices have continued to climb, especially with the yen's devaluation, which began last spring and has seen the value fluctuate between ¥95 and ¥105 to the dollar. The price of the first two fighters to be purchased for fiscal 2013 climbed to ¥29.9 billion, and the cost for the next four for fiscal 2014 has risen to ¥63.8 billion, representing a price of nearly ¥16 billion per fighter, Kiyotani said.

Added to this are plant and tooling up costs of ¥83 billion for 2013 and ¥42.4 billion for 2014 as Japanese companies Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mitsubishi Electric and IHI establish assembly and production lines.

Sources here have privately begun to refer to the F-35 deal as a "bottakuri bar," referring to establishments that lure customers of differing degrees of naivety and force them to pay exorbitant bills through a range of excess charges for items not mentioned explicitly on the menu....."

"Pointing out that locally produced versions of US kit generally cost double their US prices -- for example, Kawasaki Heavy Industry's version of the MCH-101 helicopter costs about US $60 million a unit compared to $30 million for the US price -- Kiyotani said the F-35's costs could climb to more than ¥300 billion a fighter....."

Source: http://mobile.defensenews.com/article/302040018



Will Japan has little choice. It can produce F-35's locally and pay double the price or purchase them directly from the Fort Worth Line. Doesn't matter to the JSF Program. :roll:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Feb 2014, 08:59
by popcorn
The Japanese are obviously willing to pay a premium to maximize local industry participation. Their choice.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Feb 2014, 04:41
by Corsair1963
popcorn wrote:The Japanese are obviously willing to pay a premium to maximize local industry participation. Their choice.



Yeah, I find the whole issue well laughable! :roll:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Jun 2014, 19:07
by spazsinbad
New policies in Japan may allow Australian/Japanese co-operation in building new stealthy submarines for Australia (yet to be decided/arranged). The competition for maintenance of F-35s everywhere is getting a bit silly - everyone seems to want such a base - TBD....

Defense Ministry revamps equipment procurement strategy
19 Jun 2014 JIJI

"The Defense Ministry adopted a new strategy Thursday to reform the procurement process for defense equipment, replacing a 44-year-old policy that focused on domestic development.

The new strategy seeks to promote joint development of defense equipment and technologies with other countries to boost the international competitiveness of Japan’s defense industry and boost the economy.

“It is important for Japan to improve its defense equipment and technologies so as not to be left behind,” Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said at a meeting.

The shift in focus comes at a time when cutting-edge defense equipment, such as stealth fighters, is mostly being developed under joint projects involving multiple countries....

...The strategy also included setting up an Asia-Pacific maintenance base in Japan for the F-35 stealth jet, which is due to become the next mainstay fighter of the Air Self-Defense Force.

The ministry plans to draw up a road map for developing and deploying defense items that are expected to become mainstay equipment 20 years from now, including drones."

Source: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/0 ... 6MklZB-8kI

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 25 Jun 2014, 08:49
by spazsinbad
Misawa : Japan to deploy F-35 fighters at Misawa Air Base from FY 2017
25 Jun 2014 Kyodo News

"Japan will begin deploying the next-generation F-35 fighter jets at its Misawa Air Base in Aomori Prefecture from fiscal 2017, Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said Wednesday.

"We will coordinate with the U.S. side so local residents will not have to feel concerned," Onodera told Aomori Gov. Shingo Mimura, pledging efforts so that safety will be ensured, in a meeting in the city of Aomori.

Mimura requested Onodera take measures to prevent accidents or other incidents involving the aircraft that could endanger the public.

About 20 F-35 jets will be deployed at the Air Self-Defense Force's Misawa base, the defense chief told reporters after the meeting...."

Source: http://www.4-traders.com/MISAWA--CO-LTD ... -18637764/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 09 Jul 2014, 16:36
by zerion
Japan may buy additional F-35 jets if price falls, Onodera says
KYODO
JUL 9, 2014

FORT WORTH, TEXAS – Japan may purchase additional F-35 fighter jets if their procurement costs fall, Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said Tuesday after visiting a Lockheed Martin Corp. assembly plant in Fort Worth, Texas.

“If the unit price falls, it may be important to reconsider the number of fighters (Japan will buy),” said Onodera, who held talks with senior officials from Lockheed Martin at the factory.

As the successor to the aging F-4 Phantom operated by the Air Self-Defense Force, the F-35 has advanced stealth capabilities and can escape radar detection. The ASDF currently has 42 of them on order.

The Defense Ministry and the ASDF also need to replace roughly half of the 200 or so aging F-15 fighter jets currently in operation, and Onodera’s remarks suggest that the government might favor the F-35 as a replacement.

A five-year defense program, in operation through fiscal 2018, says Japan will “consider replacing those F-15s that do not get refurbished with more advanced fighters.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/0 ... 71hCGt5mSN

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 09 Jul 2014, 23:39
by popcorn
Japan has the potential to be the 2nd largest F-35 user. A lot depends on how seriously they pursue their indigenous 5Gen design which looks to be optimized to the interceptor role.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 25 Jul 2014, 08:33
by spazsinbad
ATD-X Emerges Amid Japanese Fighter Choices
24 Jul 2014 Bradley Perrett | Aviation Week & Space Technology

"Japan has rolled out its ATD-X Shinshin fighter technology demonstrator, is considering buying more Lockheed Martin F-35s and will decide within four years whether it will develop its next combat aircraft alone or with a foreign partner....

...Japan will need more fighters than the 42 F-35s that in late 2011 it decided to order as replacements for more than 70 F-4EJ Kai and RF-4E fighters built mostly in the 1970s. Of 201 F-15J and F-15DJ fighters in the inventory, only 88 are to be upgraded with a more reliable radar and Mitsubishi Electric AAM-4B air-to-air missiles. The unmodernized aircraft are therefore candidates for replacement in the next decade.

But Lockheed Martin may receive an order for a few more F-35s before that issue arises. After a visit to the F-35 factory on July 8, Onodera said Japan should consider buying more F-35s if the cost of the aircraft falls. The Jiji news agency quotes unnamed defense officials who go further, saying that the ministry will watch price movements and see whether they can add several F-35s to the existing plan—evidently, the F-4 replacement plan, the F-X program.

It is not clear whether Onodera meant that if the 42 F-35s turn out to be cheaper than expected, then Japan may increase its order to fully use its budget allocation, or if he meant that a fall in price as F-35 production proceeds could induce Japan to spend more. Tokyo is buying F-35s under the Foreign Military Sales program, so it pays the same price as the U.S., plus an administration fee.

Tension with China over the Senkaku or Diaoyu islands must be encouraging the minister to consider boosting the fighter force. Last October, he seemed to entertain a suggestion for more F-15 upgrades. A member of the Diet, citing gloomy results of simulated air combat over the islands, called for 99 more to be modernized. Onodera replied: “That is a good point. Our ministry is doing a capability assessment. We are now introducing the F-35A..."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/atd-x-e ... er-choices

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Aug 2014, 08:28
by popcorn
Just means more revenue for NG I suppose.
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_new ... 1408040032
Mitsubishi Heavy won't supply parts for F-35 fighter project
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. decided not to supply parts to an international project to manufacture F-35 stealth fighters for the second straight year because of a disagreement with the Defense Ministry over investment.

Mitsubishi Heavy was expected to supply the body for F-35s in fiscal 2015, part of the government-led project to promote Japanese participation in an international project to produce an advanced fighter aircraft for the first time.

Mitsubishi Heavy estimated it needed nearly 10 billion yen ($97.4 million) in investment for plant and equipment to meet plans to annually produce 24 F-35s for Japan’s Self-Defense Forces and foreign militaries.

The company asked the government to shoulder the investment required to produce the fighters for foreign clients, but the Defense Ministry refused, ministry sources said.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Aug 2014, 14:16
by KamenRiderBlade
popcorn wrote:Just means more revenue for NG I suppose.
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_new ... 1408040032
Mitsubishi Heavy won't supply parts for F-35 fighter project
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. decided not to supply parts to an international project to manufacture F-35 stealth fighters for the second straight year because of a disagreement with the Defense Ministry over investment.

Mitsubishi Heavy was expected to supply the body for F-35s in fiscal 2015, part of the government-led project to promote Japanese participation in an international project to produce an advanced fighter aircraft for the first time.

Mitsubishi Heavy estimated it needed nearly 10 billion yen ($97.4 million) in investment for plant and equipment to meet plans to annually produce 24 F-35s for Japan’s Self-Defense Forces and foreign militaries.

The company asked the government to shoulder the investment required to produce the fighters for foreign clients, but the Defense Ministry refused, ministry sources said.


NG?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Aug 2014, 23:51
by newmanfrigan
Northrop Grumman

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Aug 2014, 02:01
by Corsair1963
Clearly, Japan plans on purchasing more F-35's to replace at least some of the F-15J's. As it really has no other viable option. :wink:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Aug 2014, 18:28
by spazsinbad
MHI's F-35 build plans at risk
04 Aug 2014 Jon Grevatt, IHS Jane's Defence Industry

"Mitsubishi Heavy Industries' (MHI's) plan to manufacture components for the international Lockheed Martin F-35 programme is reportedly at risk because the company has not received a commitment from the Japanese government to subsidise the production programme.

Japanese media reported on 5 August that MHI was seeking nearly JPY10 billion (USD97.5 million) from the government to help meet the cost of producing the international F-35 fuselage components. These would be integrated onto the aircraft by BAE Systems, a principal sub-contractor on the F-35 programme responsible for the design and delivery of F-35 aft fuselage and empennage.

Reports claimed the Japanese Ministry of Defence (MoD) refused to subsidise the programme and that MHI was now considering a move to supply the parts to BAE Systems under a separate consortium agreement involving undisclosed partners...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/41535/mhi- ... ns-at-risk

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Aug 2014, 18:56
by spazsinbad
Japanese whitepaper highlights industrial role of F-35A
04 Aug 2014 Greg Waldron

"Japan’s annual defence whitepaper underlines the importance Tokyo places on the industrial participation aspects of the Lockheed Martin F-35A programme, and casts a wary eye on airpower developments in China....

...In regard to specific weapons programmes, the report places strong emphasis on Japan’s F-35A acquisition. It notes that Japanese companies have been working to develop the manufacturing processes related to Tokyo’s 2011 decision to obtain 42 F-35As.

“It is important for Japanese companies to participate in the manufacturing process and to come into contact with cutting edge fighter aircraft technology and knowledge in order to ensure safety and high operational availability, resulting in the safe and efficient management of [Japan Air Self Defense Force] F-35As,” says the report.

“Following discussions with related parties such as the U.S. government, the participation of Japanese companies in the final assembly and check out (FACO) for airframe and the manufacture of certain engine and radar parts was decided in FY2013. In FY2014, the companies plan to further participate in the manufacturing process, in the engine FACO and the production of parts within the infrared detection device, the electro-optical distributed aperture system (EODAS).”...

...At the Singapore air show in February 2014, Lockheed Martin told Flightglobal that it and Mitsubishi were deep in the process of developing the Japan FACO. Japan’s first four F-35As will be produced at Lockheed’s Dallas-Fort Worth factory with deliveries to commence from the second quarter of 2016. The remaining 38 will be produced in Japan.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 5a-402378/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Aug 2014, 02:37
by Corsair1963
Japan will need at very least 100 more F-35's just to replace the non-upgraded F-15J's. Which, would be past the already planned on 42 F-35A's to replace the F-4EJ's. My guess is in the end Japan will order over 200 F-35A's and possibly a number of F-35B's. (IMO)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2014, 04:10
by spazsinbad
Ministry to seek funding for remote island defense
18 Aug 2014

"Japan's Defense Ministry will request fiscal funding to bolster its capabilities to defend the nation's remote islands....

...The ministry hopes to improve its capabilities to quickly respond to any invasion of remote islands and retake them.

The ministry will ask for financing to buy 5 Osprey transport aircraft, amphibious vehicles and about 5 next-generation F-35 fighter jets.

The ministry also aims to strengthen its mobility capabilities and surveillance activities...."

Source: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/ ... 18_01.html

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2014, 05:33
by popcorn
Hmm.. 5 X F-35s in the context of an amphibious force including Ospreys... interesting..brings mind recent USMC exercises exploring the potential of an all-STOVL force. Coincidence? :D

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2014, 06:40
by Corsair1963
Sounds like they maybe referring to the F-35B??? :?:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2014, 06:54
by popcorn
Corsair1963 wrote:Sounds like they maybe referring to the F-35B??? :?:

There was an article some months back suggesting a scenario with JASDF F-35Bs being operated out of dispersed island bases close to disputed areas. Struck me as similar to how the Corps is thinking, leveraging basing flexibility to complicate matters for any potential foe.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2014, 08:40
by Corsair1963
Well what better deterrent to China. Than the possibility that the JASDF may have F-35B's remotely based anywhere! :wink:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2014, 18:31
by spazsinbad
Japanese Advance Plans For Another Air-Capable Assault Ship
19 Aug 2014 Bradley Perrett | Aviation Week & Space Technology

"...The defense ministry’s loose specification requires a “multirole ship [or ships] capable of command and control, large-scale transportation and aviation use for amphibious operations.” Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said on July 8 he would accelerate planning for the program. The plan now looks quite firm.

Onodera and other officials inspected USS Makin Island in San Diego on July 7. The choice of that Wasp-class ship, with a full-length flight deck, reinforces expectations that Japan wants a design with excellent aviation facilities, potentially supporting the short-takeoff and vertical-landing version of the Lockheed Martin Lightning, the F-35B.

A flat-topped assault ship is not an aircraft carrier, but designers can work in more aviation features than required for amphibious landings, some of which need not be immediately revealed. Moreover, the obfuscating talents of Japanese officialdom could be harnessed to play down a ship’s capacity for tactical airpower.


There would be at least one telltale sign, however. While a ski-jump can be explained as a mere convenience for allies’ F-35Bs, large ships built mainly for amphibious landings never have high speed; they need to devote volume to storage and accommodation rather than unnecessarily powerful machinery. The Osumis are designed for 22 kt., the U.S. Navy’s standard for amphibious shipping, while the combat units of the Japanese navy are generally capable of 30 kt.

The Japanese may see an interesting precedent in the 27,500-metric-ton Italian ship Cavour, which was designed mainly as a carrier with considerable transport capacity. It has loading ramps, troop accommodation and a hangar deck strong enough to accept army vehicles, even tanks. The ship is also capable of 28 kt., partly thanks to the omission of a dock for landing craft, a usual feature of assault ships.

The construction timetable implied by Jiji’s report looks feasible. IHI Marine United built the two Hyuga-class helicopter carriers in time for commissioning in 2007 and 2009, showing that the industry could handle a two-year interval between large warships. Two Izumo-class helicopter carriers are planned, with the first probably due for commissioning in 2015 and the second possibly in 2017, each after three years of construction. If a design for an assault ship of comparable size can be ready for construction to begin in 2016, then the industry should be able to complete it by 2019.

The vessel may be given a designation less aggressive than “assault ship,” says the Asahi newspaper. The disaster relief function could be emphasized, it says.

Despite that, the ministry of defense plans to study assault-ship operations by the U.S. Navy and Royal Navy, neither of which is noted for giving such vessels a primary function of disaster relief. Rather, the main role of their amphibious shipping is, unambiguously, power projection."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/japanes ... sault-ship

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2014, 19:16
by spazsinbad
Japan looking to buy more stealth fighters in fiscal 2015
20 August 2014 (Nikkei)

"TOKYO -- The Ministry of Defense plans to seek funding for the purchase of six F-35 stealth fighter jets in next fiscal year's budget to strengthen defense of remote southwestern islands against China, which has grown increasingly assertive at sea and in the air.

The ministry intends to ask that 124.9 billion yen ($1.2 billion) be set aside. The Air Self-Defense Force hopes to buy 42 of the aircraft in all to replace its fleet of aging F-4 fighters. The new fighters will be scrambled when foreign planes approach Japanese airspace.

Japan has purchased 10 F-35s over the three years from fiscal 2012,[?] but this will mark its first time buying six in a single year....

...The government's plan to strengthen defenses over the five years through fiscal 2018 calls for the introduction of 28 F-35s, three drones and four early-warning aircraft...."

Source: http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy ... iscal-2015

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2014, 02:48
by Corsair1963
Confusing...............are these 6 New F-35's in addition to the already committed to "42"??? Plus, which model of F-35 are they??? (F-35A's or F-35B's)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2014, 03:04
by spazsinbad
Yes it is confusing and one has to go back a page to see how the 'numbers' develop. I blame reporters for the confusion but that means nothing in Japanese confusing language culture - deliberately made that way for ultimate non conveyance of real data. :doh: Just my IMHO though. :mrgreen: The way I see it there is potential for more - not ordered - F-35s (maybe some future Bs) meanwhile those 42 ordered in batches apparently need a hurryup bigger batch next year from last 'news' report. But I could be todally rong and a dancing fool but it all gets sorted out in the end. Eh.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2014, 05:01
by Corsair1963
spazsinbad wrote:Yes it is confusing and one has to go back a page to see how the 'numbers' develop. I blame reporters for the confusion but that means nothing in Japanese confusing language culture - deliberately made that way for ultimate non conveyance of real data. :doh: Just my IMHO though. :mrgreen: The way I see it there is potential for more - not ordered - F-35s (maybe some future Bs) meanwhile those 42 ordered in batches apparently need a hurryup bigger batch next year from last 'news' report. But I could be todally rong and a dancing fool but it all gets sorted out in the end. Eh.




So, Japan is just increasing the year buy for the moment and more may follow later on???

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2014, 05:09
by spazsinbad
Yes - that is how I see it.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Aug 2014, 22:57
by spazsinbad
Japan looking to buy more stealth fighters in 2015: Nikkei
19 Aug 2014 (Reporting by Sneha Banerjee in Bangalore)

"(Reuters) - Japan plans to seek funding to buy six F-35 stealth fighter jets in next year's budget to strengthen defense of remote southwestern islands against China, which has grown increasingly assertive at sea and in the air, the Nikkei reported.

The Ministry of Defense intends to ask that 124.9 billion yen ($1.21 billion) be set aside, the Nikkei said.

Air Self-Defense Force hopes to buy 42 of the aircraft in all to replace its fleet of aging F-4 fighters, the Nikkei said.

Japan has bought ten F-35s stealth fighters since 2012, but this will mark its first time buying six in a single year...."

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/ ... 7220140819

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Aug 2014, 02:54
by Corsair1963
untitled (5).png

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2014, 13:36
by popcorn
Deleted

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Jan 2015, 09:21
by spazsinbad
It is the end of the world as some know it (there be dragons) but Japan wants some F-35s and V-22s... Who'da thunk?
Japan defence budget calls for 20 P-1s, 5 V-22s
14 Jan 2015 [corrected] Greg Waldron

"Japan’s parliament has approved a Y4.98 trillion ($42 billion) defence budget for FY2015, with a strong emphasis on new airpower capabilities.

The budget, posted on the web site of Japan’s defence ministry, is 2.8% higher than in FY2014, and sets a new record for Japanese defence spending....

...It also includes funding for five Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey aircraft, which will be part of a new amphibious capability modelled on the US Marine Corps....

...Tokyo’s fighter fleet also gets a boost, with funding for six Lockheed Martin F-35As, the modernisation of eight F-15s, and improvements to nine Mitsubishi F-2 fighters...."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 2s-407881/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Jan 2015, 13:34
by Dragon029
Typo there:

spazsinbad wrote:
14 Jan 2014 Greg Waldron

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Jan 2015, 14:15
by XanderCrews
spazsinbad wrote:It is the end of the world as some know it (there be dragons) but Japan wants some F-35s and V-22s... Who'da thunk?
Japan defence budget calls for 20 P-1s, 5 V-22s
14 Jan 2015 [corrected] Greg Waldron

"Japan’s parliament has approved a Y4.98 trillion ($42 billion) defence budget for FY2015, with a strong emphasis on new airpower capabilities.

The budget, posted on the web site of Japan’s defence ministry, is 2.8% higher than in FY2014, and sets a new record for Japanese defence spending....

...It also includes funding for five Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey aircraft, which will be part of a new amphibious capability modelled on the US Marine Corps....

...Tokyo’s fighter fleet also gets a boost, with funding for six Lockheed Martin F-35As, the modernisation of eight F-15s, and improvements to nine Mitsubishi F-2 fighters...."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 2s-407881/


I bet all the usual suspects can't wait to report such great news!

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Jan 2015, 21:31
by cantaz
XanderCrews wrote:I bet all the usual suspects can't wait to report such great news!


"Once F-35B misses its IOC Japan will cancel their F-35 order and add to the death spiral waaaaaaah."

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2015, 13:45
by maus92
The latest defense budget proposal in Japan has Aegis destroyers and 6 F-35s on the list, according to the AP and other sources this morning:

"TOKYO (AP) — Japan's Defense Ministry wants to buy an advanced Aegis radar-equipped destroyer and more F-35 fighters under its largest-ever budget to bolster the defense of southern islands amid a territorial dispute with China. The ministry endorsed a 5.1 trillion yen ($42 billion) budget request Monday for the year beginning next April, up 2.2 percent from this year. It would be the fourth annual increase under Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who took office in December 2012 and ended 10 years of defense budget cuts."

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2015, 14:08
by spazsinbad
No URL from 'maus92' to here it is again....
Japan seeks biggest-ever defense budget amid China concerns
31 Aug 2015 MARI YAMAGUCHI - AP

"TOKYO (AP) — Japan's Defense Ministry wants to buy an advanced Aegis radar-equipped destroyer and more F-35 fighters under its largest-ever budget to bolster the defense of southern islands amid a territorial dispute with China.

The ministry endorsed a 5.1 trillion yen ($42 billion) budget request Monday for the year beginning next April, up 2.2 percent from this year. It would be the fourth annual increase under Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who took office in December 2012 and ended 10 years of defense budget cuts.

Monday was the deadline for all ministries to submit budget requests to the Finance Ministry....

...Abe's government says Japan needs to bolster its military role amid China's growing territorial assertiveness and the rising risk of terrorist attacks. Parliament is expected to approve a set of contentious bills to expand Japan's military role by late September.

The budget increase results largely from proposed purchases of new equipment, including 17 surveillance helicopters, six F-35 fighters and three advanced "Global Hawk" drones....

...The budget is to be formally drafted into a bill in December that will be submitted to parliament for approval."

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/japan-seeks-bigge ... 57724.html

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Aug 2015, 23:34
by slapshot!
Looks like the Pacific is heating up.

Separate note, does the JASDF use AESA radars in their F15Js?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Sep 2015, 00:33
by jessmo111
slapshot! wrote:Looks like the Pacific is heating up.

Separate note, does the JASDF use AESA radars in their F15Js?



Spaz could the janapese give China much of a fight?
What about in ten years with J20,s and F-35s are flying around?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Sep 2015, 01:35
by spazsinbad
There is a forum sub section to make claims about this that and the other against F-35s:

F-35 versus XYZ viewforum.php?f=55

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Sep 2015, 02:04
by jessmo111
Not just the F-35 but surface fleet tacair ect. I guessbim trying
To figure out if just a few F-35s is pissing in the wind like Taiwan's case

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Sep 2015, 02:08
by spazsinbad
Well then piss in the wind and get pissplashed. Look for a repetition of the headline over the next few years. And... what about the other JASDF aircraft? How many Chinese aircraft - will the US come to the aid of Japan via treaty? Sheesh.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Sep 2015, 08:24
by bullphrog
slapshot! wrote:Looks like the Pacific is heating up.

Separate note, does the JASDF use AESA radars in their F15Js?


I believe it uses the APG-63 v1, they do have it on their AAM-4B MRAAMs that can be used on the F-15J if that counts for anything, and F2s have it

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Sep 2015, 14:32
by XanderCrews
jessmo111 wrote:Not just the F-35 but surface fleet tacair ect. I guessbim trying
To figure out if just a few F-35s is pissing in the wind like Taiwan's case


Google: Battle of Britain.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 05:08
by jessmo111
Yes Sir,

I am familair with the battle of Britan, But I dont think The Chinese will attempt the hypothetical operation Sea lion anytime soon. I only wish that that SK, Japan, the Philipines, Taiwan, and Vietnam, coudl come together. They would make a formidible force agoanst The Chinese. Back on topic, Im going to predict, that if the Chinese keep pressing, that the Japanese will eventually order a Much larger carrier, or 2, and maybe Used the British QE, as a good example.
2 Or 3 QE sized ships, with a Full complement of escorts and F-35sB would really give the Chinese somthign to worry over.
NOTE SPAZ they have the means to make them CATOBAR even, so being hampered by STOVL, and organic AWAC/Tankers may not be an issue. But Its just my arm chair prediction.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 05:22
by thepointblank
The Japanese military as a whole is a highly disciplined, well trained and professional force. The Chinese are no where near the level of professionalism and training the Japanese are at.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 05:23
by spazsinbad
'jessmo111' You need to read up more especially SLDinfo website where the co-operation of all F-35 users (allies / treaty partners with the US in the Pacific) will be all of one hive mind in the swarm of F-35s of all types brought to bear to sic 'em rex.

Networking all assets in a wolofpack firing weapons from everywhere sea/air you name it is how it will go. Search for 'wolfpack' for example. Here is but one example: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21803&p=240570&hilit=wolfpack#p240570

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 05:50
by madrat
It's not simply sharing target information, it's total asset management from fuel, to ordnance, projected waypoints, etc.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 06:32
by jessmo111
spazsinbad wrote:'jessmo111' You need to read up more especially SLDinfo website where the co-operation of all F-35 users (allies / treaty partners with the US in the Pacific) will be all of one hive mind in the swarm of F-35s of all types brought to bear to sic 'em rex.

Networking all assets in a wolofpack firing weapons from everywhere sea/air you name it is how it will go. Search for 'wolfpack' for example. Here is but one example: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=21803&p=240570&hilit=wolfpack#p240570


I am Familair with SLD, sir. It will be interesting to see if the nations can make connections politically, now that they are stove piped into being on the same page with the F-35. If a country Like SK has F-35s and they pick up incoming ballistic missile targets, or fighters heading twoards and ally or a frienemy like Japan, It would only serve thier best intesests to pass it on. I wonder if the Info is gated at each nations server farm, or is it completely in USA controll. This could be a 2 edged sword. For instance would Turkey pass data to Israel, if there political interests are not served?

Spaz I really wish your Country would spring for carriers, Its the new Pacific fashion.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 07:16
by spazsinbad
All the F-35 countries are allies in some fashion. I do not know where your scenario comes from but missiles heading away from North Korea or China will be obvious to a lot more assets than just some F-35s. And apart from China which Asian Pacific country has an aircraft carrier (not forgetting the forward based CVN in Japan)? Perhaps you are thinking of LHDs and Australia has two of them.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 07:32
by madrat
Thailand /har har

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 08:30
by spazsinbad
You seem to know very little about Thailand.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 08:33
by jessmo111
spazsinbad wrote:All the F-35 countries are allies in some fashion. I do not know where your scenario comes from but missiles heading away from North Korea or China will be obvious to a lot more assets than just some F-35s. And apart from China which Asian Pacific country has an aircraft carrier (not forgetting the forward based CVN in Japan)? Perhaps you are thinking of LHDs and Australia has two of them.


Let me rephrase that. I wish You would buy something bigger than an LHD. Something QE sized. with a full complement of
F-35bs or C depending on whats chosen. Japan just launched whats called a AHem.. Helicopter destroyer, I say TOmatoe and you say toMAtoe, but the writing is on the wall. In the next few years Thaland, ( snickers) Russia, Japan The U.S. China, and Australia, will all have some kind of navy asset from which a STOVL, or catapult aircraft can be launched.
Im not saying that all ships are the same, or that they are effecive platforms for this. I would how ever Like the Aussies
To field a real carrier. COME On spaz, a BIg BLOOMINg ship! WITh Aussie markings?! you Know you want one.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 08:37
by spazsinbad
You seem to be some kind of idiot to think that Oz just buys things because you want them. Enuf said.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 10:15
by jessmo111
Didnt you do an entire thread on Australia, and Light carriers? So that makes me an idiot?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 10:23
by spazsinbad
Think about it - a thread about F-35Bs on LHDs. An LHD is not a light carrier - think about it - read lots before fantasising.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 10:46
by joost
jessmo111 wrote:Yes Sir,
Im going to predict, that if the Chinese keep pressing, that the Japanese will eventually order a Much larger carrier, or 2, and maybe Used the British QE, as a good example.2 Or 3 QE sized ships, with a Full complement of escorts and F-35sB would really give the Chinese somthign to worry over.


Japans constitution prohibits them for having "attack aircraft carriers" (and ICBMs and strategic bombers).

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 12:07
by jessmo111
And you had to be told, to curb your enthiasm for your LHD? What does that make you?
Now in just this one thread alone, you have accused me of being unlearned, uneducated, unread.
I dont know about the battle of Britan, I dont know about, wolfpacks. Are you familair with the term Xenophobia?
You seem to be happy to assail people who you consider outsiders. I have tried to Placate, you but you come across as
Rude, condecending, and Backwards. I am Not a fighter jock, I am a law enforcment offical with an F-35 fetish.
Please be civil, Im not goign to ask again.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Sep 2015, 15:19
by spazsinbad
Well then please stop inventing scenarios and asking me personally to respond please. I type what I type - how you interpret that is up to you - law enforcement or not. Curb my enthusiasm? That is rich indeed. And do not placate.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2015, 18:11
by spazsinbad
Document: Japan’s 2016 Defense Budget Request
21 Oct 2015 USNI News

"The following is an overview of Japan’s Fiscal Year 2016 defense budget request."

"...○ Acquisition of fighter aircraft (F-35A) (6 fighters: ¥103.5 billion*)

* ¥2.5 billion is allocated separately as the initial expense to promote industrial participation of domestic corporations.

* ¥29.4 billion is allocated separately for other related expenses (ground support equipment, etc.), of which ¥2.8 billion is allocated as expenses necessary for building up regional depot capabilities in the Asia-Pacific region...."


Source: http://news.usni.org/2015/10/21/documen ... et-request [PDF available here 4.1Mb]

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2015, 21:28
by tritonprime
joost wrote:
jessmo111 wrote:Yes Sir,
Im going to predict, that if the Chinese keep pressing, that the Japanese will eventually order a Much larger carrier, or 2, and maybe Used the British QE, as a good example.2 Or 3 QE sized ships, with a Full complement of escorts and F-35sB would really give the Chinese somthign to worry over.


Japans constitution prohibits them for having "attack aircraft carriers" (and ICBMs and strategic bombers).


I am not sure what they are prohibited from acquiring now that Japan has decided it has the right of collective self-defense. Article 9 has been re-interpreted over the years.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 13:31
by spazsinbad
Contract: Lockheed, $21.5M
10 Dec 2015 David Tortorano

"Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $21,500,000 modification to a previously awarded advance acquisition contract (N00019-13-C-0008) to purchase, manufacture, and install various components to update the configuration of four conventional takeoff and landing variant F-35 aircraft for the government of Japan under the Foreign Military Sales program. In addition, this modification provides for updates to associated systems engineering products. Work will be performed in Fort Worth, Texas, and is expected to be completed in December 2016. The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Maryland, is the contracting authority. (Source: DoD, 12/10/15) Gulf Coast note: Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is home of the F-35 integrated training center."

Source: http://gcacnews.blogspot.com.au/2015/12 ... -215m.html

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 19:06
by archeman
spazsinbad wrote:
Contract: Lockheed, $21.5M
10 Dec 2015 David Tortorano

"Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $21,500,000 modification to a previously awarded advance acquisition contract (N00019-13-C-0008) to purchase, manufacture, and install various components to update the configuration of four conventional takeoff and landing variant F-35 aircraft for the government of Japan under the Foreign Military Sales program. In addition, this modification provides for updates to associated systems engineering products. Work will be performed in Fort Worth, Texas, and is expected to be completed in December 2016. The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Maryland, is the contracting authority. (Source: DoD, 12/10/15) Gulf Coast note: Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is home of the F-35 integrated training center."

Source: http://gcacnews.blogspot.com.au/2015/12 ... -215m.html


Just attempting to interpret this...
So when Japan ordered it's initial lot of aircraft, they were purchasing current lot aircraft and systems from the time of that purchase, so now they have to pay 21.5 Million to 'update' the stuff they had on order but haven't yet actually taken delivery of ???

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 20:12
by SpudmanWP
The Japanese jets are being produced at Block3i. The above contract is likely to update them to Block3F & take care of any concurrency issues found withing the past few years.

They knew this at the time of purchase.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 21:03
by sferrin
Wait, 3i comes BEFORE 3F? :?:

And of course the Basement Dwellers portray this event as Lockheed needing to repair jets on the assembly line because "Lockheed cannot make aircraft come off the assembly line in a satisfactory condition".

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... grade.html


Hmmm, I'd say updating the aircraft while it's on the assembly line is much more efficient than waiting until it's in the field.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 25 Apr 2016, 16:09
by spazsinbad
Lockheed Martin readies Japan's first F-35A for September roll-out, advances international programmes
25 Apr 2016 Kelvin Wong

"Key Points
• Japan's first F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter is expected to be fully assembled at Lockheed Martin's Fort Worth production facility in time for a 29 September roll-out
• Other new international customers, such as Israel and South Korea, are also expected to receive their first aircraft within the next two years

Japan's first conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, designated aircraft AX-1, is on track for roll-out on 29 September, IHS Jane's has learnt during a tour of Lockheed Martin's F-35 production facility in Fort Worth, Texas, where the first four aircraft destined for the Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) are being assembled.

AX-1 will then undergo a series of tests before being delivered on a yet to be determined date to Luke Air Force Base in Arizona - which has been selected as the primary training centre for US and international operators of the F-35A variant - to support training of the first cadre of JASDF pilots for the type...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/59759/lock ... programmes

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 00:05
by XanderCrews
Inane question: on the roll out do we think the aircraft will have red or LO vis gray meatballs?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 00:21
by KamenRiderBlade
XanderCrews wrote:Inane question: on the roll out do we think the aircraft will have red or LO vis gray meatballs?

Why would it be Red?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 01:42
by zerion
KamenRiderBlade wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:Inane question: on the roll out do we think the aircraft will have red or LO vis gray meatballs?

Why would it be Red?

Cuz they put it on all of their a/c to date.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 03:21
by yeswepromise
I dont think it will get color... neither will the AS birds. Both are in final now.... getting close!

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Aug 2016, 14:44
by ngroot0
JASDF releases images of first F-35
Gareth Jennings, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
15 August 2016

The first Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) for Japan was photographed at the Fort Worth production facility in mid-August.

The images, released by the Japan Air Self-Defence Force (JASDF) on 14 August, show aircraft 69-8701 (also designated AX-1) in its completed state ahead of flight tests and delivery to the international training fleet at Luke Air Force Base (AFB), Arizona, in the coming weeks. Four aircraft for the JASDF are currently being built at Fort Worth.

Japan has committed itself to buying 28 F-35As over the next five-years (6 of the aircraft are under contract), and has a total requirement of 42 to replace its ageing Mitsubishi-McDonnell Douglas F-4J Kai (Phantom II) aircraft, which have been in service since the early 1970s.

On 25 June 2014, then Japanese defence minister Itsunori Onodera announced that the F-35 would initially be based at Misawa, which is expected to receive the first 4 of about 20 aircraft during fiscal year 2017. The initial operating unit is expected to be either 301 or 302 Squadron.

http://www.janes.com/article/62957/jasd ... first-f-35


Picture in the article is really blurry. Serial of AX-1 is said to be 69-8701, but is not readable in the picture.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Oct 2016, 21:35
by zerion
Lockheed says it wants Japan to do more work on the F-35

TOKYO (Reuters) - Lockheed Martin Corp wants Japan to do more work on the F-35 program after earlier attempts to tempt Japanese companies such as Mitsubishi Heavy Industries with component supply contracts failed, a senior Lockheed executive said.
"There are industrial opportunities that are still available for Japan. The action is on their side of the ledger right now," Steve Over, director of international business development for the F-35 program, said in an interview at the Japan Aerospace 2016 show in Tokyo.
Japan has ordered 42 F-35 to replace its fleet of aging F-4s. Most of those will be put together by Mitsubishi Heavy at a final assembly and check out plant in Japan.
Japan's government and its companies declined to join the F-35 build at the start of the program as constraints on arms exports at the time meant they could not make components for defense equipment that would be used by foreign militaries.
Prime Minister Shinto Abe's government lifted that export ban in April 2014, but it was too late for Japanese industry to join the F-35 as top tier profit sharing partner. Subsequent talks for Mitsubishi Heavy to supply aft fuselage parts for BAE Systems Plc , one of the F-35 partners, fell through without agreement.
Japan, Over said, could still do that fuselage work or bid for other contracts if it wants to.
"In our heart and soul we would like to have more opportunity in Japan."
Getting Japan more involved in the F-35 could bolster Lockheed's chance of selling more of the stealth fighters to Japan...

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-lockhe ... 35-2016-10

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Dec 2016, 04:12
by spazsinbad
Japan Approves Record Defense Spending Amid China Tensions
22 Dec 2016 Isabel Reynolds & Emi Nobuhiro

"Japan Approves Record FY 2017 Budget
Japan’s cabinet approved a record defense budget of just over 5 trillion yen ($42.5 billion) for the year starting April, as tensions with China simmer over disputed islands in the East China Sea.

The figure marks the fifth straight rise in annual military spending -- a trend that started after Prime Minister Shinzo Abe took office in late 2012....

...Here are the main points of the two spending packages, which must be now passed by parliament:

• Defense budget for year starting April rises 1.4 percent to 5.1 trillion yen...

• Japan to budget for a further six Lockheed-Martin F-35 fighter aircraft at a cost of 88 billion yen; F-35 squadron to be established at Misawa, northern Japan..."

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... a-tensions

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Feb 2017, 16:45
by zerion
Long article

Exclusive: Japan secures extra cost cuts on U.S. F-35 fighter jet package - sources

Tokyo has secured cost cuts on support equipment for its next batch of six U.S. F-35 stealth fighter aircraft of around $100 million, according to sources and Japanese budget papers, on top of savings being finalised for all buyers of the high-tech jets...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan ... SKBN15G3UP

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 01:45
by zerion
Does anyone subscribe? This looks interesting.

Lockheed Martin Offers Modified F-35 For Japan—Report
http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/loc ... pan-report

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 02:08
by popcorn
All F-35s offered in the 2030 timeframe will surely be modified relative to what is available today.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 04:12
by zerion
popcorn wrote:All F-35s offered in the 2030 timeframe will surely be modified relative to what is available today.

Surely they'll be different, but they make it sound like they're doing something major. I want details! :devil: :devil:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 04:30
by lbk000
maybe they want them to carry xasm-3?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 04:32
by popcorn
Nothing to prevent the Japanese from going the Israeli approach if they're willing to foot the bill.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 04:55
by neptune
zerion wrote:
popcorn wrote:All F-35s offered in the 2030 timeframe will surely be modified relative to what is available today.

Surely they'll be different, but they make it sound like they're doing something major. I want details! :devil: :devil:


http://thediplomat.com/2017/06/japan-to ... f-missile/

Japan to Arm F-35 Joint Strike Fighter With Long-Range Stand-off Missile

By Franz-Stefan Gady
June 29, 2017

The Japan Air Self Defense Force (JASDF) is purportedly considering arming its burgeoning fleet of F-35A Lightning II fifth-generation stealth fighter jets with the next-generation, long-range, precision-guided Joint Strike Missile (JSM), the Yomiuri newspaper reported on June 27. The JSM is a “promising candidate” for the F-35A as the JASDF is slowly developing a long-range preemptive strike capability, primarily aimed at targeting North Korean military installations in the event of war, the newspaper notes. (JSM will have land-attack and anti-ship capabilities and is being designed to have a range exceeding 150 nm even when fired at low attitude. The missile will deliver a 120-kg (265-lb.) warhead.)
However, despite some media reports to the contrary, the Japanese Ministry of Defense has so far not officially selected an air-to-ground missile system.

Other candidates for bolstering the JASDFs offensive capabilities include;
1- JSM, Joint Strike Missile
2- JASSM, Joint Air to Surface Standoff Missile
3- JDAM, Joint Direct Attack Munition, GBU-31 air-to-ground guided bomb.

The JSM, co-developed by U.S. defense contractor Raytheon and Norwegian defense company Kongsberg Gruppen, is a fifth-generation cruise missile specifically designed to fit inside the F-35A’s weapons bay to maintain the aircraft’s stealth capabilities. (The F-35A can purportedly carry up to two JSMs in its missile bay.) According to Raytheon features of the missile include an advanced engagement planning system that exploits the geography in the area; accurate navigation system for flight close to terrain; a high maneuverability to allow flight planning in close vicinity to land masses; a discriminating seeker with imaging infrared technology; two-way networking datalink (…) offering target-updates; as well as retargeting and mission-abort capabilities.

The JSM has been under development since 2008 and is slated to become fully operational by 2025 with initial operational capability expected in 2021. The missile is designed for medium-range anti-ship and land attack missions and can “take on high value, heavily defended targets,” according to Raytheon. “The long standoff range (distance from the aircraft to the target) ensures that the aircraft and pilots remain out of harm’s way.”……

Block 2B - JDAMs and the 500 lb GBU-12 Paveway II, .. AIM-120 AMRAAM.
Block 3F - 500 lb JDAM, the GBU-53/B SDB II, .. AIM-9X Sidewinder.
Block 4 -
- Block 4A in 2021
- Block 4B in 2023.
(This phase will also include usage of weaponry unique to British, Turkish, and other European countries)

…contract (N00019-16-C-0008) for development efforts for the Block 4 System Functional Review in support of the F-35A/B/C aircraft. Block 4 is a modernization program that includes new and upgraded capabilities to provide enhancements and continuous improvements to maintain viability against evolving threats, reduce life cycle costs, and improve operational suitability. Work will be performed in Fort Worth, Texas, and is expected to be completed in May 2017.

….basic ordering agreement (N00019-14-G-0020). This order provides for non-recurring effort and integration tasks required to operate a hardware-in-the-loop laboratory used to build, modify, verify and validate, and distribute mission data file sets for the F-35. This contract will deliver modification kits to upgrade the RC West Block 3i Verification Validation Station to the Block 3F, 3F+, and 3F Digital Channelized Receiver/Technique Generator and Tuner Insertion Program configurations, and provide engineering support during the installation and integration of the modification kits, verification and validation test venue support in support of the F-35A aircraft for the governments of Japan and Israel, under the Foreign Military Sales program. Work will … be completed in September 2021.
:)
….as said elsewhere, the F-35 will continue to evolve with both software and hardware/ weapons…

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 05:04
by Dragon029
The JSM doesn't require hardware modifications to use; the Aviation Week article title makes it sound like they're offering an F-35I (F-35J?) style deal.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 05:12
by neptune
Dragon029 wrote:The JSM doesn't require hardware modifications to use; the Aviation Week article title makes it sound like they're offering an F-35I (F-35J?) style deal.



....having read AW for twenty years, I'll submit the article will be about the JSM being available in 8yrs. (clickbait) and.....a JASDF sticker to go on the outside of the fuselage, similar to the Israeli Star of David....
:wink:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 11:45
by bring_it_on
BEIJING—Lockheed Martin is offering an improved version of the F-35 Lightning for Japan’s requirement for a fighter to deploy in the 2030s, according to the Nikkei newspaper.
Adapting an existing design is the cheapest of three options, the others being developing a fighter independently and doing so with another country, Nikkei says, citing no sources.

The paper notably fails to mention an even cheaper possibility that the government has been considering—importation of an unmodified fighter type.

Nikkei gave no details of the modified F-35, which would presumably be called the F-35J. Japan is buying 42 F-35As, assembled by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI), as replacements for F-4 Phantoms. For its next program it wants to replace MHI F-2s in the 2030s. MHI would presumably undertake any necessary development, fabrication and assembly of the airframe.

The Lightning in its current form is rather distant from the ideal of Japanese defense ministry engineers for a 2030s fighter. Their concept for an all-new aircraft includes internal carriage of six long-range air-to-air missiles, such as MBDA Meteors, and two of short range. Looking for great range and endurance, they have produced concept designs for a fighter larger than the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and much larger than the F-35.

Britain is integrating the Meteor on the F-35 but the U.S. fighter will carry no more than four such weapons internally, and then with no room for short-range air-to-air missiles. Lockheed Martin conceivably could improve the F-35’s range and endurance with external tanks, perhaps conformal and at some cost to stealth. It also could fit the lightest Lightning version, the F-35A, with the bigger and more voluminous wing of the F-35C, the variant designed for catapult launch and arrested recovery at sea.

Japanese avionics would also be possible for an F-35J. Israel will at least load its own software on its version, the F-35I.

In June 2016 the Japanese defense ministry sought information from aircraft manufacturers about three possibilities for the fighter program: creating a new type, modifying an existing one or importing.

The possibility of international joint development has since emerged as a variation on the first option. Britain and Japan agreed in March to look at the possibility of jointly creating a fighter for the 2030s; BAE Systems would be the obvious partner for MHI, while Rolls-Royce worked with Japanese propulsion specialist IHI.

Sweden’s ambassador to Tokyo says Japan also should consider Saab.

The F-2 was a modification of an existing type, the F-16. Lockheed Martin supported the development effort.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 12:14
by Dragon029
Very interesting; I wonder how much range is enough for Japan? Fukuoka is a little under 800NM away from Beijing for example; with one of the new adaptive cycle engines that would be within the F-35A's unrefuelled air-to-ground combat radius; Shanghai, Hangzhou, Nanjing, etc are also all within range, which should be sufficient to maintain a decent offensive defence and enable further strikes supported with tankers.

If they were going to modify the F-35 to hold more missiles they'd probably have to do something like make the bays bulge out more and put a rail on the outer doors; or maybe with SACM and 6x internal air-to-air AMRAAM capability they could offer a compromise of 4x Meteor equivalents and 4x AIM-120C / AIM-9X equivalents. Maybe even if MSDM has enough range they could look at squeezing 6x Meteors into the bays and saying that a few MSDMs in the towed decoy bay is equivalent.

Or hell, maybe they can pull an ASH and look at doing stealthy external weapon pods, or maybe they could do weird conformal weapon housings on top of the fuselage for rail-launched SRAAMs, like a mix of the SEPECAT Jaguar and F-16's CFTs. For extra separation safety put them on trapeze launchers like with the F-22's side bays (except where they point them upwards).

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 15:33
by talkitron
The proposed large Japanese fighter for the 2030s is similar in class to a candidate for the Penetrating Counter Air program for the USAF.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 20:36
by ricnunes
bring_it_on wrote:
...Their concept for an all-new aircraft includes internal carriage of six long-range air-to-air missiles, such as MBDA Meteors, and two of short range. Looking for great range and endurance, they have produced concept designs for a fighter larger than the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and much larger than the F-35.
...


Isn't the F-35 going to carry six long-range air-to-air missiles (AMRAAM-D) with Block 4?

Of course it won't carry the two of short range internally at the same time as the six long-range air-to-air missiles but is this that much of a difference?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 20:47
by SpudmanWP
ricnunes wrote:Isn't the F-35 going to carry six long-range air-to-air missiles (AMRAAM-D) with Block 4?


That's the plan but it looks like Japan wants something the range of Meteor which is too wide to put in 3 per bay.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 21:06
by bring_it_on
Meteor might be but a VFDR AMRAAM leveraging the Mustang II inlets could very well since it was purposely designed to take up the same volume as the AMRAAM. Granted that this is not a known program of record, but it is much easier funding a missile upgrade then making wholesale fighter design trades for just that reason alone.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 23:11
by ricnunes
SpudmanWP wrote:
ricnunes wrote:Isn't the F-35 going to carry six long-range air-to-air missiles (AMRAAM-D) with Block 4?


That's the plan but it looks like Japan wants something the range of Meteor which is too wide to put in 3 per bay.


Yes indeed, that's why I mentioned the -D version of the AMRAAM.
Doesn't the -D version of the AMRAAM have a considerable extended range from latest -C variant (-C7 if I'm not mistaken) and if yes, shouldn't it (AIM-120D) be considered a "long range AA missile" as well?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 05 Jul 2017, 23:49
by popcorn
Well, Japan is collaborating to develop an advanced seeker for Meteor.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 01:40
by SpudmanWP
ricnunes wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:
ricnunes wrote:Isn't the F-35 going to carry six long-range air-to-air missiles (AMRAAM-D) with Block 4?


That's the plan but it looks like Japan wants something the range of Meteor which is too wide to put in 3 per bay.


Yes indeed, that's why I mentioned the -D version of the AMRAAM.
Doesn't the -D version of the AMRAAM have a considerable extended range from latest -C variant (-C7 if I'm not mistaken) and if yes, shouldn't it (AIM-120D) be considered a "long range AA missile" as well?


The -D has the same motor as the -C5 and the only range increases that it gets is from it's GPS INS that allows for an accurate high arching profile that has gravity assisted end-game maneuver energy. I think the idea of "considerable range increase over the C7" came from rumors that the D was getting a new motor. Given the press that we have, the rumor perpetuated until it became "common knowledge".

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 10:19
by bring_it_on
The D does get a range bump but it is nowhere near the level of what the Meteor will get on account of the fact that its design specified longer range and better end game kinematics over the AMRAAM. Aim-120D was to be a better missile, and significantly so over the C but it was to be a hold over until the next generation of weapons were developed. I guess after doing nothing for 4-5 years we are now finally looking to invest in a NG weapon for these platforms.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 16:12
by SpudmanWP
The "triple the NEZ of the missile it is replacing" was specifically targeting the AMRAAM-B, not the C and certainly not the new motor of the C5 & beyond.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 19:10
by bring_it_on
Right but regardless the Meteor will have longer range and better kinematics against the D which is essentially a C flying a more efficient trajectory. For the F-35 that would be less important since it carries both and you could potentially develop a 2 meteor and 4 Aim-120D configuration (perhaps) plus the fact that it isn't forced to go defensive at range. But yeah if one wants a longer range AMRAAM one will have to design one in such a way where it doesn't add to the bay space issue like the meteor i.e. still 6 inside the raptor and still a growth to 6 inside an F-35.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 19:32
by SpudmanWP
Keep in mind that the quote is about NEZ and not absolute range.

The AIM-120-D's 2-way datalink and GPS INS make it VERY accurate at long range.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 19:46
by bring_it_on
Of course it does and I don't think this is being disputed, but a ducted ramjet can also extend range by throttling back and this is one way of extending the range of the weapon and why the USAF and DAPRA both narrowed down on it for the Boeing and Raytheon demonstrator. As far as pure rocket motor performance is concerned the Aim-120D will be similar to the C but of course it will be more accurate and will have more efficient and precise trajectory hence likely greater effective range and kinematic performance. A ramjet on the other hand has higher specific impulse so is more effecient,

As I had mentioned earlier, it makes little sense to go for 4 meteors vs 6 aim-120Ds as part of the expanded capability but if one wants a longer ranged Aim-120, there are ways to get that without sacrificing bay carriage. The VFDR AMRAAM looked into that very thing and this dictated the design of the inlets for that weapon concept. It will be far easier and many times cheaper to upgrade a missile as opposed to creating a brand new fighter for that one requirement alone.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 19:58
by SpudmanWP
You are right on the absolute range issue and it being far cheaper to develop e new missile vs redesigning a plane just to get a 6+2 config.

Personally, I have always liked the GD AAAM Proposal for not only increasing magazine size, but also increasing range and multi-mode seeker. I am lucky enough to live near the March AFB Museum where their F-14 has the GD AAAM Mock-up installed.

Image

Image

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Jul 2017, 23:56
by ricnunes
Thanks for the heads up about the AIM-120D :)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Jul 2017, 12:03
by bring_it_on
ou are right on the absolute range issue and it being far cheaper to develop e new missile vs redesigning a plane just to get a 6+2 config.

Personally, I have always liked the GD AAAM Proposal for not only increasing magazine size, but also increasing range and multi-mode seeker. I am lucky enough to live near the March AFB Museum where their F-14 has the GD AAAM Mock-up installed.


Yeah that was a very impressive concept. Going forward, now that they have rolled in a new missile with the broader AS2030 AOA, they are likely to seek something that creates both a HOBS, highly maneuverable close in weapon, and long range weapon requirements into one, something that will be necessary for the 5th and 6th generation fighters given the Aim9 isn't really an optimum solution for them.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Sep 2017, 20:25
by spazsinbad
VMFA-121 helps prepare JASDF for F-35A
13 Sep 2017 Cpl. Carlos Jimenez | Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, Japan

"MARINE CORPS AIR STATION IWAKUNI, Japan --
Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 hosted members of Japan Air Self-Defense Force’s Third Air Wing for an educational tour and class centered around the F-35A Lightning II at Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, Japan, Sept. 13, 2017.

The tour was an effort from the Marine Corps to share knowledge and experiences of the F-35B Lightning II with the JASDF in preparation for their upcoming acquirement of the aircraft.

“The purpose of today’s tour was to bring some JASDF maintainers down from Misawa Air Base, who are expecting to get the F-35, and show them how we operate our maintenance department here in Iwakuni,” said U.S. Marine Corps Maj. Adam Wellington, aircraft maintenance officer for VMFA-121. “We wanted to exchange ideas and answer questions for them as they prep for the arrival of this aircraft.”

JASDF personnel were given several classes regarding maintenance, serviceability, operability and more. Afterwards, they briefly toured VMFA-121’s facility, taking a peek into different departments and visiting the hangar to see, touch and study the aircraft up close.

JASDF Lt. Col. Mamoru Yamaura, F-35A Lightning II program office chief with the Third Air Wing, said even though they’re becoming increasingly knowledgeable, they’ve come to the point where they need to directly see how to operate the aircraft.

“It is very significant for us to see, meet and talk with personnel who are already operating or supporting the F-35,” said Yamaura. “This exchange program is very instructive for us. We’ve learned a lot about the F-35 and the United States Marine Corps. I believe we should have many more exchanges like this.”

Wellington attributed the success of the bilateral event to great questions posed by the JASDF personnel, the dialogue between all players involved and the fact that they are already well versed in many things about the F-35B Lightning II.

He claimed that not only was the training successful, but it deepened the relationship between them and the JASDF.

“This training enhances the relationship between the JASDF and the Marine Corps at large,” said Wellington. “That’s one of the benefits of this aircraft, it’s a joint aircraft that’s going to be used by multiple partners, including Japan. So the fact that they’re going to fly the same aircraft we’re already flying is just going to further strengthen the relationship we have with the Japanese.”"

Source: http://www.mcasiwakuni.marines.mil/News ... for-f-35a/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Sep 2017, 17:39
by neptune
http://alert5.com/2017/09/15/assembly-o ... more-64928

Assembly of F-35As in Japan said to be running behind schedule

A report by Japan’s Board of Audit says the local assembly of F-35As by a consortium lead by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is running behind schedule. IHI Corp. and Mitsubishi Electric Corp. are tasked with engine and radar components assembly but both companies have yet to sign parts production subcontracts with the original equipment manufacturers. The board added that checks by the Defense Ministry’s Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Agency found the local companies’ manufacturing processes to be lacking

https://mainichi.jp/articles/20170914/k ... 40/049000c

interpretation please!

:)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Sep 2017, 18:59
by blindpilot
neptune wrote:http://alert5.com/2017/09/15/assembly-of-f-35as-in-japan-said-to-be-running-behind-schedule/#more-64928
Assembly of F-35As in Japan said to be running behind schedule ... https://mainichi.jp/articles/20170914/k ... 40/049000c

interpretation please!

:)


My answer is "Making, assembling, or even modifying 5th Gen fighters anywhere other than Ft. Worth TX is really really hard!" That's true in Italy, Israel, or Russia, China, ... and Japan." Think Elon Musk and SpaceX. "This rocket science stuff is really hard!"

They'll get there. :D :D

MHO,
BP

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Sep 2017, 22:13
by spazsinbad
Japan aims to integrate locally produced parts into F-35s from 2018
20 Sep 2017 Jon Grevatt

"Japan is aiming to integrate locally produced parts into Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) aircraft from 2018, the Ministry of Defense’s (MoD’s) Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Agency (ATLA) disclosed to Jane’s on 20 September.

A spokesperson from ATLA also confirmed that local component manufacturing was behind schedule and that it had failed to meet a deadline to manufacture parts for the aircraft that were ordered in 2013 and scheduled to be delivered later this year.

Under the programme, IHI Corporation is licence producing parts for the F-35’s Pratt & Whitney F135 engine while Mitsubishi Electric Corporation (MELCO) is manufacturing components for the aircraft’s avionics systems designed by Northrop Grumman.

In addition, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) operates a Final Assembly and Check Out (FACO) facility but the company does not produce F-35 components.

An ATLA spokesperson said, “We planned to equip [the aircraft] with parts produced by Japanese manufacturers on F-35As contracted from fiscal year (FY) 2013, which was the second year of the contract.

“However, it was the first contract [in which] Japanese companies had become production subcontractors of US counterparts. So it took time and it became impossible to meet the deadline to use Japanese-produced parts on F-35As contracted from FY 2013.”

The spokesperson added that the MoD has undertaken a commitment to liaise closely with the US government as well as industry in integrating Japanese-produced parts into the programme. “The MoD will work with the US government and also Japanese and US manufacturers to supply Japanese parts as soon as possible for F-35As contracted from FY 2014 and thereafter.” These aircraft are scheduled to be delivered from 2018...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/74241/japa ... -from-2018

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Sep 2017, 23:36
by nutshell
blindpilot wrote:
neptune wrote:http://alert5.com/2017/09/15/assembly-of-f-35as-in-japan-said-to-be-running-behind-schedule/#more-64928
Assembly of F-35As in Japan said to be running behind schedule ... https://mainichi.jp/articles/20170914/k ... 40/049000c

interpretation please!

:)


My answer is "Making, assembling, or even modifying 5th Gen fighters anywhere other than Ft. Worth TX is really really hard!" That's true in Italy, Israel, or Russia, China, ... and Japan." Think Elon Musk and SpaceX. "This rocket science stuff is really hard!"

They'll get there. :D :D

MHO,
BP


It's the same reason why you can't make decent cars in the US :D

Btw you've a 35 years headstart with 5th gen fighters; no way you can match american expertise matured in that field.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Sep 2017, 01:12
by spazsinbad

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Sep 2017, 01:51
by white_lightning35
nutshell wrote:
It's the same reason why you can't make decent cars in the US :D

Btw you've a 35 years headstart with 5th gen fighters; no way you can match american expertise matured in that field.


Ahem...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Sep 2017, 04:59
by neptune
white_lightning35 wrote:
nutshell wrote:
It's the same reason why you can't make decent cars in the US :D

Btw you've a 35 years headstart with 5th gen fighters; no way you can match american expertise matured in that field.


Ahem...


....beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder!
:)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 19:15
by zerion
Exclusive: Japan to delay multi-billion dollar fighter jet development - sources
Tim Kelly, Nobuhiro Kubo

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan will delay a decision to develop a new advanced fighter jet, four sources said, as military planners struggle to settle on a design and officials splash out on new U.S. equipment such as ballistic missile interceptors and F-35 stealth planes...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKBN1DD0D4

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Nov 2017, 23:26
by archeman
zerion wrote:Exclusive: Japan to delay multi-billion dollar fighter jet development - sources
Tim Kelly, Nobuhiro Kubo

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan will delay a decision to develop a new advanced fighter jet, four sources said, as military planners struggle to settle on a design and officials splash out on new U.S. equipment such as ballistic missile interceptors and F-35 stealth planes...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKBN1DD0D4


Perhaps they should put their focus on succeeding in a simpler project environment. An environment where the design is already completed and the plans for component production are handed to them with instructions. If they can't get that done, why bother throwing the yen down the toilet on a homegrown design.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2017, 00:21
by nutshell
Well, the Japs might need a stronger air defense infrastructure more then a 5th gen fighter, as of now.

People seems to love to throw them long range missiles. You would totally do the same.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2017, 04:46
by Corsair1963
zerion wrote:
Exclusive: Japan to delay multi-billion dollar fighter jet development - sources
Tim Kelly, Nobuhiro Kubo

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan will delay a decision to develop a new advanced fighter jet, four sources said, as military planners struggle to settle on a design and officials splash out on new U.S. equipment such as ballistic missile interceptors and F-35 stealth planes...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKBN1DD0D4


This nothing more than politics designed for public consumption. As Japan has had no intent to develop the X-2 (formerly ATD-X) into F-3 for sometime now......In addition Japan announced earlier this year. That in 2018 they would place an order for an additional "100" Stealth Fighters. Which, clearly means additional F-35's. Which, is hardly surprising as Japan didn't open a New Assembly Plant in NAGOYA! In order to build just "38" F-35's for the JSADF....

:doh:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Nov 2017, 17:19
by XanderCrews
Corsair1963 wrote:
zerion wrote:
Exclusive: Japan to delay multi-billion dollar fighter jet development - sources
Tim Kelly, Nobuhiro Kubo

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan will delay a decision to develop a new advanced fighter jet, four sources said, as military planners struggle to settle on a design and officials splash out on new U.S. equipment such as ballistic missile interceptors and F-35 stealth planes...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKBN1DD0D4


This nothing more than politics designed for public consumption. As Japan has had no intent to develop the X-2 (formerly ATD-X) into F-3 for sometime now......In addition Japan announced earlier this year. That in 2018 they would place an order for an additional "100" Stealth Fighters. Which, clearly means additional F-35's. Which, is hardly surprising as Japan didn't open a New Assembly Plant in NAGOYA! In order to build just "38" F-35's for the JSADF....

:doh:


It's worth remembering that one narrative of the Anti F-35 crew was that ATD-X was being built because the F-35 couldn't handle air to air and the Japanese had no faith in the F-35 air 2 air realm.

Of course I don't expect them to reverse themselves and say that with ATD-X being delayed and or canceled means that F-35 is good in A2A now but by their own narrative that would be the case.

Just wanted to point that out

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2017, 21:42
by spazsinbad
Japan reacts to reports it wants ability to destroy NKorean missiles prelaunch
07 Dec 2017 Mike Yeo

"...It was also reported that the ministry is expected to request the budget support an acquisition of the Joint Strike Missile, or JSM, from Norway’s Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace, with Nikkei Asian Review reporting that the JSM “would be deployed as early as fiscal 2019” on Japan’s Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters.

However, the timeline reported by Nikkei would likely be impossible to attain even if Japan were to acquire the JSM, given than integration of the missile onboard the F-35 is currently scheduled to take place in the 2020s with the introduction of the Block 4.1 software that is currently in development.

While Onodera is correct in saying that standoff land-attack missiles were not included in the recent Japanese MoD budget request, Tokyo-based defense analyst James Simpson has said it is possible the missiles will appear in the actual budget bill schedule for release next year. Simpson pointed out to Defense News that similar occurrences have happened in the past.

Corey Wallace, an Einstein postdoctoral fellow in the Graduate School of East Asian Studies at Freie Universitat in Berlin, Germany, had also earlier told Defense News that a relatively shorter-range standoff land-attack missile like the JSM would be a baby step and a possible way to fudge what is seen by some Japanese citizens as an offensive image of longer-range missiles.

As Defense News previously reported, Japan’s MoD is looking at the possibility of acquiring a long-range counterstrike capability as part of Japan’s upcoming Mid-Term Defense Program and new National Defense Program Guidelines; although the country’s wartime past and current pacifist constitution would mean that any move to acquire capabilities that could be used in an offensive capacity would be politically sensitive."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/12 ... prelaunch/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 10:58
by Gamera
Friday, 1 December 2017:
Temporary F-35A Squadron, JASDF, based at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture.

Ceremony for create Temporary F-35A Squadron, at Misawa AB.
JASDF will equip 42 F-35A.

Fiscal year 2017, Misawa AB equips first F-35A.
Fiscal year 2018, first F-35A squadron.

Fiscal year 2020, second F-35A squadron.
F-2 squadron(s) move from Misawa AB to Hyakuri AB, Ibaraki Prefecture.

Misawa AB adding F-35A training and related facilities.

http://flyteam.jp/news/article/87790
http://www.mod.go.jp/asdf/adc/topics/to ... -1204.html

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 10:12
by spazsinbad
Defense Ministry seeks funds for cruise missiles
09 Dec 2017 The Yomiuri Shimbun

"The Defense Ministry requested on Friday additional funds in the fiscal 2018 budget for introducing long-range cruise missiles that would be loaded onto Self-Defense Forces aircraft. If another country occupied a remote Japanese island or launched a similar invasion, the ministry would aim to attack from outside the weapons range of the enemy forces by extending the range of the SDF’s missiles. The cruise missiles would be used to enable the SDF to retake territory.

The ministry requested the additional funds for two purposes. The first — for ¥2.16 billion — is to purchase joint strike missiles (JSMs), which have a range of about 500 kilometers....

...JSMs loaded onto F-35 fighters would be used to attack targets on the ground or warships. The ministry would aim to begin deploying the missiles in fiscal 2021....

...“[The introduction of the new types of missiles] would not run counter to the exclusively defense-oriented policy,” [Defense Minister Itsunori] Onodera said."

Source: http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0004117987

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 23:55
by wrightwing
That's an interesting revelation about the JSM. That represents a significantly more capable missile than most spec sheets allude to (i.e. >100nm). The ability to carry a missile internally with a range of ~300 miles, is pretty potent capability.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Jan 2018, 03:53
by spazsinbad
Nearly half of Japan's defense priorities underfunded
06 Jan 2018 NIKKEI Asian Review

"...Of the 23 major procurement items identified in Japan's current five-year defense program, only 13 were fully funded as of the fiscal 2018 draft budget. These include two destroyers fitted with the Aegis missile interceptor system and 28 F-35A stealth fighters...."

Source: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Econom ... nderfunded

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 08:24
by spazsinbad
ASDF to deploy F-35 at Misawa base in late January
20 Jan 2018 NHKworld

"Japan's Air Self-Defense Force says it will deploy an F-35 stealth fighter later this month at its Misawa base in Aomori Prefecture, northeastern Japan. It is the first of 42 F-35s to be delivered to the country....

...Each aircraft costs about 135 million dollars. The Defense Ministry plans to deploy 9 more F-35s at Misawa by the end of fiscal 2018 that starts in April.

The ministry says it will fit the jets with the Norwegian-made Joint Strike Missile, or JSM, long-range cruise missile.
With a range of 500 kilometers, the missile will enable Japan to target enemy bases from within Japanese airspace...."

Source: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20180120_12/


Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 09:38
by neptune
spazsinbad wrote:
ASDF to deploy F-35 at Misawa base in late January
20 Jan 2018 NHKworld

"Japan's Air Self-Defense Force says it will deploy an F-35 stealth fighter later this month at its Misawa base in Aomori Prefecture, northeastern Japan. .... The Defense Ministry plans to deploy 9 more F-35s at Misawa by the end of fiscal 2018 that starts in April. The ministry says it will fit the jets with the Norwegian-made Joint Strike Missile, or JSM, long-range cruise missile. With a range of 500 kilometers, the missile will enable Japan to target enemy bases from within Japanese airspace....


....Wow!, this will be amazing to see Japan moving from announcing the plans on 7Dec17 and deploying the first F-35A by the end of Jan18. The acceleration of the infrastructure should be even more interesting. I hope this push is to create a leverage point of negotiations for the NK efforts and not for some preparation for immediate defense of their homeland.
:|

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 Jan 2018, 06:30
by spazsinbad
Japan has deployed the F-35A at Misawa
Posted in Air Force on January 26th, 2018 ALERT 5

"Japan has deployed its first F-35A stealth fighter at Misawa air base. Video taken at MHI’s plant in Komaki suggests it was AX-6 that was deployed." VIDEO Published on Jan 25, 2018

Source: http://alert5.com/2018/01/26/japan-has- ... at-misawa/


Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Jan 2018, 18:46
by spazsinbad
26 Jan 2018 F-35A 89-8706 is the first at Misawa, Japan

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Jan 2018, 01:42
by neptune
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/01 ... -supplies/

Japan base welcomes 1st deployed F-35A, but industry hiccups delay fighter’s supplies


By: Mike Yeo
30Jan18

MELBOURNE, Australia —
Japan has deployed the Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter to a Japanese base for the first time, with the arrival of an aircraft to an air base in the northern part of the country late last week. The aircraft touched down at Misawa in Japan’s Aomori Prefecture on Friday, where it was welcomed in an arrival ceremony by representatives of the Japan Air Self-Defense Force. This is the first of 10 JASDF F-35As slated to arrive in Misawa over the upcoming Japanese fiscal year. Speaking at the ceremony, the commander of the JASDF’s 3rd Air Wing, Maj. Gen. Kenichi Samejima, said “the F-35A will bring transformation in air defense power and significantly contribute to the peace for citizens and ensure security”. Misawa is also home to the U.S. Air Force’s 35th Fighter Wing, which flies the F-16 Fighting Falcon multirole fighter. The commander of the wing, Col. R. Scott Jobe, said the F-35A “represents not only a big step forward in technological advancements and combat capabilities but also in U.S.-Japan relations,” adding that his unit looked forward to “training alongside our JASDF counterparts and continuing to enhance the safety and security of Japan together.” "Japan’s first F-35As will be operated by the JASDF’s 302nd Squadron, which is currently operating the McDonnell-Douglas F-4EJ Phantom II at Hyakuri Air Base in Ibaraki Prefecture, north of Japan’s capital Tokyo.

The unit will eventually move north to Misawa to operate the F-35. Japan has ordered 42 F-35As, with the first four assembled at Lockheed Martin’s Fort Worth, Texas, facility and the remaining 38 aircraft assembled at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries’ final assembly and checkout, or FACO, facility in Nagoya, Japan. The first F-35A rolled out of the FACO facility in June 2017, which has also been selected to be the facility for the F-35’s North Asia-Pacific regional heavy airframe maintenance, repair, overhaul and upgrade.In addition to final assembly, Japanese industry is also involved in the manufacture of parts used in Japan’s F-35s. However, it has been reported that Japanese-made parts that were to be included in the fighters have not actually been used so far, with IHI Corporation unable to get quality approval for an engine parts prototype due to delayed supplies of materials from a contractor in the U.S., while Mitsubishi Electric had other issues with subcontractors. The Japanese government’s board of audit had said that checks by the Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Agency showed that the Japanese subcontractors’ manufacturing processes were insufficient, and the board urged the agency to coordinate with the U.S. government to ensure that items required for F-35 production be supplied on schedule.
:)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Jan 2018, 03:20
by rheonomic
PACOM's article: http://www.pacom.mil/Media/News/News-Ar ... 001828797/

Staff Sgt. Deana Heitzman|35th Fighter Wing Public Affairs wrote:MISAWA AIR BASE, Japan -- Blue skies and snowy mountains welcomed the first operational Japan Air Self-Defense Force F-35A Lightning II during an arrival ceremony at Misawa Air Base, Jan. 26.

In the upcoming Japanese fiscal year, nine more aircraft will join this one to incept the first fifth-generation fighter squadron as part of the JASDF’s 3rd Air Wing.

"The F-35A will bring transformation in air defense power and significantly contribute to the peace for citizens and ensure security,” said JASDF Maj. Gen. Kenichi Samejima, the 3rd AW commander. “All service members will do their best to secure flight safety and promptly establish an operational [squadron] structure step-by-step."

The aircraft is a high-performance, multirole aircraft with advanced electronics designed to heighten situational awareness and distribute more information to pilots than any other fighter aircraft, giving operators a critical advantage over adversaries. Japan is one of 12 countries to purchase the F-35A in efforts to maximize air superiority.

“This aircraft represents not only a big step forward in technological advancements and combat capabilities but also in U.S.-Japan relations,” said Col. R. Scott Jobe, the 35th Fighter Wing commander. “We look forward to training alongside our JASDF counterparts and continuing to enhance the safety and security of Japan together.”

In total, JASDF plans to acquire 42 F-35As as successors to its F-4s. A commemorative ceremony is scheduled for Feb. 24 at Misawa AB to celebrate the official initial deployment of a JASDF F-35A.

Image

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Jan 2018, 09:38
by neptune
rheonomic wrote:....In the upcoming Japanese fiscal year, nine more aircraft will join this one to incept the first fifth-generation fighter squadron as part of the JASDF’s 3rd Air Wing....


...so Nagoya is building at least nine F-35A in 2018 to deploy to the new at Misawa, 302nd Squadron, in response to the NK and China incursions into their airspace??

Infrastructure development for training, maintenance, ALIS, mission data files, etc. to be forth coming at Misawa during 2018?

"...., there are now two mission data reprogramming centers: Reprogramming Center – East (RC-East) at Eglin, and Reprogramming Center – West (RC-West) at Naval Air Station Point Mugu, Calif. RC-West consists of the F-35 Reprogramming Laboratory (FRL), and its customers are Japan and Israel. Other nations will join that lab in the future.
..."Provide the Reprogramming Center-West, at NAS Point Mugu, California, with the Primary Mission Equipment (Hardware) Required for the Laboratory to meet Partner and Foreign Military Sales. Contract Awarded to Provide the Reprogramming Center-West,.., with the primary mission equipment (hardware) required for the laboratory to meet partner and foreign military sales mission data file requirements in support of the F-35 Program. This contract combines purchases for the governments of Japan ..33.4%, South Korea ..33.3%, Israel ..33.3% under the Foreign Military Sales Program. .., and expected to be completed in October 2017.
:)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Feb 2018, 02:07
by spazsinbad
F-35B jets eyed to defend remote isles / Fighters also mulled for MSDF’s Izumo ship
12 Feb 2018 The Yomiuri Shimbun

"The government is considering operating F-35B fighter jets from about fiscal 2026, in an effort to utilize airports on remote islands and thereby improve the nation’s capability to defend the isles, The Yomiuri Shimbun has learned....

...The Japanese government is also eyeing the operation of the fighters on Izumo, the Maritime Self-Defense Force’s largest-class destroyer and which Tokyo is considering remodeling into an aircraft carrier, according to government sources....

...As for the F-35B, the government is planning to indicate the number of aircraft to be procured in the next Medium Term Defense Program, which is to be compiled at the end of this year. It is also mulling including related expenses in the fiscal 2019 budget plan, with a view to starting the delivery of F-35Bs from around fiscal 2024, the sources said.

The F-35B is likely to be defined as a successor to the F-15, the ASDF’s main fighter jet. One plan is to introduce about 20 to 40 F-35Bs, which would correspond to one to two squadrons. Tokyo is also considering increasing the number of F-35As in the next midterm defense program, according to the sources.

The introduction of F-35Bs would facilitate the use of commercial airports on remote islands. The minimum runway length required for the advanced fighter to take off is relatively short, making it more likely to be able to actually take off even when the airstrip at its home base is under attack.

The government is considering highlighting the objective of strengthening the capability for continuous combat operations in the National Defense Program Guidelines, which is expected to be reviewed at the year end. The ASDF’s Nyutabaru Air Base in Shintomi, Miyazaki Prefecture, is named as a possible base for the F-35B to be deployed.

The government is also eyeing converting Izumo into an aircraft carrier — which fighter jets can take off from and land on — by reinforcing the heat resistance of the ship’s deck. It aims to begin operation of the aircraft carrier in the early 2020s. Starting this fiscal year, the MSDF has commissioned a shipbuilding company to carry out a study on enhancing the Izumo’s aircraft operation capability.

Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera suggested at a meeting of the House of Representatives Budget Committee on Thursday that the government is considering operating the F-35B. The study on Izumo is being carried out “with the recently developed aircraft in mind,” the minister said.

The converted Izumo is planned to be utilized for such purposes as a supply base to defend remote islands. For the time being, the government wants the U.S. military to operate the F-35B, but it also plans to eventually operate the advanced fighter on its own by learning operational know-how from the U.S. side regarding the takeoff and landing of fighter jets, according to the sources.

There are 201 F-15 fighter jets — which were first introduced in fiscal 1980 — currently being deployed. Of them, 102 will continue to be enhanced and used in the future by installing them with such equipment as new types of electronic devices. The remaining 99, without being enhanced, are expected to be replaced with F-35Bs as well as a successor fighter to the F-2, the sources said."

Source: http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0004240516

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Feb 2018, 02:25
by gc
Summary of potential or confirmed acquisitions:

1. More F-35As
2. F-35B to be based on offshore islands and Izumo Class DDH
3. Upgrades to F-15Js
4. NSM for F-35A internal carriage
5. AARGM for SEAD
6. JASSM/LRASM for F-15/F2 standoff strike
7. ASM-3 supersonic anti-ship missile
8. C-2 transport and ELINT variants
9. KC-46A tankers

Seems like JASDF is becoming an extremely potent force comparable or maybe even superior to the RAF or Armée de l'air.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Feb 2018, 02:53
by white_lightning35
Image

Relevant.(?)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Feb 2018, 02:57
by spazsinbad
:doh: The world changes constantly - deal with it. :doh:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Feb 2018, 03:15
by Corsair1963
Honestly, this is hardly surprising for a couple reasons. First, Japan has stated multiple times that it would place an order for ~ 100 "Stealth Fighters" in 2018. Which, only could be the F-35A and/or F-35B. Second, Japan didn't set up the Mitsubishi Plant in Nagoya to build "just" 38 F-35A's! (wouldn't be cost effective)

Exclusive: Japan to buy at least 20 more F-35A stealth fight

Unread postPosted: 21 Feb 2018, 16:38
by SpudmanWP
Exclusive: Japan to buy at least 20 more F-35A stealth fighters - sources

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan plans to buy at least 20 additional F-35A stealth fighters over the next six years, some or all of which it may purchase directly from Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) in the United States rather than assemble locally, three sources said.

“In view of budgets and production schedules a new acquisition of around 25 planes is appropriate,” said one of the sources with knowledge of the plan. The sources asked not to be identified because they are not authorized to speak to the media.

The sources said buying complete aircraft from the United States, at about $100 million each, will save Japan about $30 million per airframe.

The purchase will add to an earlier order for 42 of the fighters, most of which are being constructed at a “final assembly and check out” plant in Japan operated by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (7011.T), the country’s leading defense contractor.

That plant is one of only two such factories outside the United States. The other, in Italy, is operated by Leonardo Spa (LDOF.MI).

As China fields ever more advanced aircraft, including stealth planes, and as North Korea pushes ahead with its nuclear weapon and ballistic missile programs, adding F-35s will further increase Japan’s reliance on U.S. military technology to give it an edge over potential foes in East Asia.

Japanese military planners are also considering buying F-35Bs, the vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) version of the aircraft. Those models can operate from small islands skirting the East China Sea or from ships such as the Izumo-class helicopter carriers.

“We have not yet made any plan and we are evaluating what fighter aircraft we need,” Itsunori Onodera said at a news briefing on Tuesday when asked whether Japan planned to buy more F-35s.

Onodera’s ministry will release two defense reviews by the end of the year that will outline Japan’s security goals and military procurement plans for the five years beginning in April 2019.

The first of the 42 F-35As ordered by Japan’s Air Self Defence Force (ASDF) are being deployed to Misawa Air Base in northern Japan. Japanese government officials and Lockheed Martin executives are set to attend a ceremony there on Saturday to mark the entry of the first Japanese F-35 into service.

The F-35 accounts for about a quarter of Lockheed Martin’s total revenue. The company is hiring 1,800 workers for its Fort Worth, Texas, factory to build a fleet that is expected to grow to more than 3,000 jets worldwide. Lockheed Martin is scheduled to nearly triple annual production to more than 160 jets by 2023.

The first Japanese F-35s will replace aging F-4 Phantom fighters that date back to 1960s. The next batch will allow Japan to retire some of the aging 200 F-15s flown by the ASDF that are the main interceptor workhorse of the nation’s air defenses.

Japan also wants to build its own stealth fighter, dubbed the F-3, although the high cost of military aircraft development means it will probably need to find foreign partners to share the expense.

Reporting by Tim KellyEditing by Gerry Doyle

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-defence-f35-exclusive/exclusive-japan-to-buy-at-least-20-more-f-35a-stealth-fighters-sources-idUSKCN1G507W

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Feb 2018, 19:58
by spazsinbad
:devil: Would the reporter(s) be 'aviation-wise': "...Japanese military planners are also considering buying F-35Bs, the vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) version of the aircraft...". They be from Crete? :devil: They be CRETINS. :doh:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 24 Feb 2018, 16:15
by spazsinbad
Japan Air Self Defense Force Commemorates First F-35 Arrival to Misawa Air Base
24 Feb 2018 MISAWA AIR BASE, Japan

"MISAWA AIR BASE, Japan, February 24, 2018 – Senior leaders of Japan’s Ministry of Defense, U.S. Forces Japan, Pacific Air Forces and Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) celebrated the arrival of the first Japan Air Self Defense Force (JASDF) F-35A to its first operational F-35A base here today at Misawa Air Base, Japan.

The aircraft, designated AX-6, is the second F-35A assembled at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries’ F-35 Final Assembly & Check-Out (FACO) facility in Nagoya, Japan and is the first to be assigned to the JASDF’s 3rd Air Wing. Japan’s program of record calls for 42 F-35A aircraft. The first four aircraft were assembled at Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, Texas, and delivered to Luke Air Force Base, Arizona, where JASDF pilots and maintenance crews are undergoing training.

Japan’s fifth F-35A, designated AX-5, was the first assembled in Nagoya and was flown to Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Maryland, for Electromagnetic Environmental Effects (EEE) certification, before it will join the JASDF F-35A training fleet at Luke Air Force Base....

...To date, more than 265 F-35 aircraft have been delivered to U.S. and international customers and more than 180 are in world-wide production. More than 570 F-35 pilots and 5,600 maintainers have been trained and the F-35 fleet has surpassed more than 125,000 cumulative flight hours...."

Source: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/japan-a ... misawa-air

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 21:04
by spazsinbad
Japan mulls F-35B, deploys F-35A and seeks partner for F-3
Apr 2018 Nigel Pittaway

[Stuff already posted on this thread & F-35Bs on DDHs potential repackaged]

Source: AIR International Magazine April 2018 Vol.94 No.4

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 May 2018, 07:00
by spazsinbad
Japan will have a total of 7 F-35As in the country by this month
14 May 2018 UnDicpherable Place via Alert5

"Japan is taking delivery of its second F-35A at Misawa air base today and Defense Minister Yoshinobu Onodera says five more are expected to arrive on May 26, bringing the total to 7."

Source: http://alert5.com/2018/05/15/japan-will ... his-month/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 May 2018, 11:36
by Gamera
https://this.kiji.is/368939547947467873

2018/05/15:
Minister of Defence Onodera said five more F-35A would arrive at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture, on May 26, for total seven.
In FY 2018, three more would arrive at Misawa AB, for total ten.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 May 2018, 11:00
by Gamera
Tuesday, 15 May 2018:
F-35A.
89-8707.
JASDF.

14:00, took off, at Komaki AB, Aichi Prefecture.
15:00, landed, at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture.

Second JASDF F-35A assigned to Misawa AB.

26 May, five F-35A from USA, via Hawaii, scheduled to arrive at Misawa AB.

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2018 ... tohoku-l02
https://this.kiji.is/369081362437358689

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2018, 14:29
by Gamera
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2018 ... asahi-soci

Saturday, 2018/05/26:
Five F-35A scheduled to arrive today, at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture, were delayed, to after May 28.
The F-35A, used for training in USA, and flown by USAF pilots, had no malfunction.

Tankers scheduled to accompany the F-35A, had malfunction.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2018, 14:26
by Gamera
https://this.kiji.is/373772140073272417

Monday, 2018/05/28:
Five JASDF F-35A arrived at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture.

Four assembled by Lockheed-Martin in USA.
One assembled by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Komaki Minami factory, Aichi Prefecture, in Japan.

All five used for training JASDF pilots at Luke AFB, Arizona.
Flew to Japan, via Hickam AFB, Hawaii.

[I have not found out their serial numbers yet.]

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jun 2018, 11:52
by Gamera
Here's a FlyTeam News article about the arrival of the five JASDF F-35A at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture, on 2018/05/28.
I presume the five S/Ns amongst the article tags are the five JASDF F-35A.

Will someone compare them to verify if these five S/Ns exclude the one or two JASDF F-35A already at Misawa AB?

https://flyteam.jp/news/article/95012

2018/05/28

69-8701
69-8702
79-8705
89-8706
89-8707

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Jun 2018, 23:49
by spazsinbad
PDF of JPG from AirFarcesMonthy July 2018 attached.
Five JASDF F-35As transfer from Luke to Misawa
July 2018 Dave Allport

"...The Lightning IIs – 69-8701 (AX-01, USAF/14-5114), 69-8702 (AX-02, USAF/14-5115), 79-8703 (AX-03, USAF/14-5116),
79-8704 (AX-04, USAF/14-5117) and 79-8705 (AX05) – arrived at Misawa on May 28 using callsign ‘Zesty 71’ flight....

...The five F-35As from Luke join two other JASDF aircraft already at Misawa – 89-8706 (AX-06) and 89-8707 (AX-07) – which arrived on January 26 and May 15 respectively. Three more will be delivered in Fiscal Year 2018, bringing the total to ten, out of a planned purchase of 42."

Source: AirForces Monthly Magazine July 2018 No. 364

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Sep 2018, 15:41
by Gamera
Friday, 2018/08/31:
Fiscal year Heisei 31 [2019] defense budget request, and squadrons movement plan.

Plan: fiscal year 2019, not fiscal year 2020, 3rd Hikoutai [F-2] moves from Misawa AB to Hyakuri AB.
302nd Hikoutai moves from Hyakuri AB to Misawa AB, and converts from F-4EJ Kai to F-35A.

https://flyteam.jp/news/article/99301

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Oct 2018, 09:28
by talkitron
The Japanese F-22/F-35 hybrid seems to be dead because of cost reasons. So are advanced F-15s and Typhoons.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20 ... na/001000c

As many as 92 F-2s are owned by the Air Self-Defense Force, and will begin to reach the end of their service life in the 2030s. The quick adoption of a replacement plan is necessary as developing a fighter jet can take 10 years or more. In response to a government call for proposals, three American and British manufacturers made offers to upgrade their existing models -- Lockheed Martin for its F-22, Boeing for its F-15, and BAE for its Eurofighter Typhoon.

However, refurbishing the stealthy, state-of-the-art F-22 is expensive, and "no clear explanation was given about the possibility of the U.S. government lifting the export ban" on the aircraft, according to a senior ministry official. The two other proposals also failed to meet the ministry's requirements.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 04 Oct 2018, 14:34
by mixelflick
If anyone needs the B, it's Japan. If I were them, I'd be buying mostly B's. Look at how close they are to Russia, N. Korea and China. The number of IRBM's raining down on their airfields is going to be... plenty. They also don't need to go deep into Russia and/or China, just defend their territory/waters.

The B has plenty of range, and if I'm not mistaken they have a well established tanker fleet. And let's be honest, the US would be doing most of the heavy lifting if any of those nations threatened Japan. Hell, S. Korea's fleet of F-15's, 16's and 35's would be so far up into N. Korea Kim wouldn't be able to go out for breakfast, let alone coordinate a defense..

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Oct 2018, 12:36
by spazsinbad
Japan Considering More F-35s...
16 Oct 2018 Chen Chuanren and David Donald

"As part of measures to keep up with China’s rising air power, Japan is considering the purchase of 20 more Lockheed Martin F-35As for the Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF), following on from earlier government discussions. According to a report by local newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun procurement will begin as early as 2020 and will be part of the next Medium Term Defense Program for Fiscal Years 2019-23. The new batch of 20 F-35As is to replace around half of the 200 license-built F-15J Eagles, some of which are facing obsolescence.

Currently, Japan has committed to 42 conventional takeoff F-35As to replace three squadrons of F-4/RF-4 Phantoms based at Hyakuri air base. The first F-35A assembled in the United States has already been delivered to Misawa air base, temporarily assigned to the Rinji F-35A Hiko-tai (squadron). It will later be officially assigned to 302 Hiko-tai (currently an F-4EJ Kai unit) by March 2019, following the delivery of more aircraft.

Regarding the other Phantom squadrons, 501 Hiko-tai—flying RF-4E/EJ reconnaissance aircraft—will become a fighter unit by March 2020. The final F-4EJ Kai fighter unit, 301 Hiko-tai, will become another F-35 squadron by FY2020, and will move to Misawa. The Phantom’s retirement is currently expected around March 2021. By the end of 2018 the Japanese government is due to have announced new F-35 bases, along with the defense plan. Both Hyakuri and Nyutabaru air bases are considered possible F-35 bases to equip during the period 2024-2027...."

Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... royal-navy

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Oct 2018, 12:47
by ricnunes
OH my god, the DEATH SPIRAL!

And the sky is falling, the Japanese are planning to buy F-35s to replace F-15s!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Oct 2018, 13:14
by marsavian
Wonder if they will wait for Block 4 for the F-15 replacements, timing suggests it. So many F-35s will be built this century beyond the current planned.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Oct 2018, 13:36
by talkitron
An extra 20 is a not a huge number given Japan’s population and wealth.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Oct 2018, 14:33
by hythelday
talkitron wrote:An extra 20 is a not a huge number given Japan’s population and wealth.


The other way to look at it as 150% increase over their original commitment though, and nothing stops them from buying more over time.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 10:31
by ricnunes
hythelday wrote:
talkitron wrote:An extra 20 is a not a huge number given Japan’s population and wealth.


The other way to look at it as 150% increase over their original commitment though, and nothing stops them from buying more over time.


I guess you mean a 50% increase over their original commitment (150% increase would be a new order of around 60 aircraft) but otherwise I fully agree.

Another perspective or way to look at it is that these 20 F-35s will replace half of the 200 Japanese F-15s or more precisely, 20 F-35s will replace 100 F-15s. IMO, 20 F-35's are more effective and will do more than 100 F-15s but as always, the more the merrier...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 15:48
by geforcerfx
I don't think it is direct replacing any eagles, seems like japan only has 155 active(down 30 over the last 4 years) so it is prob replacing eagles that have already been pulled. Not to mention the remaining 40 replacing F-4's will take on more fighter duties then the F-4's could.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Oct 2018, 16:44
by ricnunes
geforcerfx wrote:I don't think it is direct replacing any eagles, seems like japan only has 155 active(down 30 over the last 4 years) so it is prob replacing eagles that have already been pulled. Not to mention the remaining 40 replacing F-4's will take on more fighter duties then the F-4's could.


The article posted by spazsinbad indicates pretty much that:
The 42 F-35's (ordered so far) are to replace the F-4's while these extra 20 F-35's are to replace half of the F-15 fleet, here:

The new batch of 20 F-35As is to replace around half of the 200 license-built F-15J Eagles, some of which are facing obsolescence.


If those 20 F-35 aren't (according to the article) a direct replacement to the F-15 (again half of the fleet) than I wonder what an actual direct replacement would be?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2018, 05:55
by geforcerfx
Japan doesn't have 200 active F-15's, world air forces has them down to 155. What I was saying is the F-35's replacing the F-4 squadrons will be able to take on more missions then the F-4's have in the last few decades since there availability hasn't been great, and obvious technological limitations. I doubt the Japanese are only buying 20 to replace 100 or 75 F-15's allowing there air force to shrink that much would be insane. Maybe the 20 are the first purchase in a replacement buy, all in all I could see Japan operating similar numbers of F-35s as the UK, they just haven't fully committed to it yet.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2018, 07:28
by Corsair1963
The current order of 42 F-35A's are indeed to replace the retiring F-4's within the JASDF. While, the addition order of 20 F-35's being talk about today. Would be to "start" to replace the early (MSIP) F-15J's. (half the fleet) Which, will not be upgrade to the F-15J Kai standard.


Honestly, many don't understand that while Japan is a rich nation. It is heavily in debt and only spends 1% of GDP on Defense. (actually slightly less)

In short Japan Government / Military would love to order a large number of F-35's today. Yet, politically that is just not possible. So, expect to see small orders from time to time....

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2018, 13:05
by ricnunes
geforcerfx wrote:Japan doesn't have 200 active F-15's, world air forces has them down to 155. What I was saying is the F-35's replacing the F-4 squadrons will be able to take on more missions then the F-4's have in the last few decades since there availability hasn't been great, and obvious technological limitations. I doubt the Japanese are only buying 20 to replace 100 or 75 F-15's allowing there air force to shrink that much would be insane. Maybe the 20 are the first purchase in a replacement buy, all in all I could see Japan operating similar numbers of F-35s as the UK, they just haven't fully committed to it yet.


Oh, I see. Sorry for misunderstanding your post.

Yes, I agree that Japan is likely to purchase (in terms of "extra F-35's") more than those 20. My opinion here is that as with any other nation in the world, Japan doesn't have unlimited resources so now it will likely order these extra 20 F-35s and then in the next few years order more. Or resuming, Japan probably doesn't have the resources to currently purchase more than those 20 so this will be a "phased" order/purchase or else Japan would certainly order (right now) more than those 20, so in this regard I also fully agree with Corsair1963.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Oct 2018, 17:46
by geforcerfx
ricnunes wrote:
Oh, I see. Sorry for misunderstanding your post.

Yes, I agree that Japan is likely to purchase (in terms of "extra F-35's") more than those 20. My opinion here is that as with any other nation in the world, Japan doesn't have unlimited resources so now it will likely order these extra 20 F-35s and then in the next few years order more. Or resuming, Japan probably doesn't have the resources to currently purchase more than those 20 so this will be a "phased" order/purchase or else Japan would certainly order (right now) more than those 20, so in this regard I also fully agree with Corsair1963.


I think there might be some regional considerations as well. By spreading the order out they draw less criticism from China. Instead of going bam 125 F-35's on order and another 25 F-35B's for carrier work they spread them out over a decade with 20-40 jets at a time.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Oct 2018, 12:55
by mixelflick
The F-35 is much more capable than the F-15J, but really... 20 (more) of them? I'm not sure I'd be retiring my F-15 fleet anytime soon, at least with that few F-35's. I suppose, it depends...

What kind of shape are Japan's Eagle's in? Do they fly with the latest radars, RWR's etc?? It's one thing if there's the latest AESA in its nose/AIM-120D's and AIM-9x's. In that guise, it's a great match for China's SU-35's (and lesser Flankers). Does anyone here know??

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Oct 2018, 21:47
by ricnunes
mixelflick wrote:The F-35 is much more capable than the F-15J, but really... 20 (more) of them? I'm not sure I'd be retiring my F-15 fleet anytime soon, at least with that few F-35's. I suppose, it depends...


Well, the strength in numbers regarding modern combat aircraft is much less important today and less so in the future compared to yesterday/past.
According to what geforcerfx posted, Japan has around 155 (active) F-15's and those 20 F-35's are supposed to replace half of that fleet, or around 77-78 (100 max).
That half part of Japanese F-15 fleet are old(er) aircraft so there are even less capable than modern F-15's and thus far, far less capable than the F-35.
And since those are older F-15s the readiness rate of those aircraft should be quite low which means that 20 F-35's should be in practical terms "more" than 77-100 F-15s because of a combination of capability plus readiness/availability.

Moreover, I believe that these 20 F-35's are only an initial "extra order" and most likely more F-35's will be ordered to replace the F-15s. The reasons for this I believe, were already mentioned by me and geforcerfx above.
Besides, don't expect that older aircraft (this case the F-15) are to be replaced by newer aircraft (this case the F-35) on a one-by-one basis.

If we look at basically all the world's air forces, the total numbers of combat/fighter aircraft have been diminishing as time progresses. For example an air force today has less aircraft than the same air force had during the 1980's which by its turn were less than again the same air force had for example during the 1950's.

Lets look for example at Canada. Well, today the Royal Canadian Air Force is on a sorrow state but up to 1980's and even during the 1990's, it was a relevant Air Force but I believe it's a good example of what I mentioned on the paragraph above:
- During the 1950s the RCAF operated almost 1900 fighter aircraft (thousands) between F-86s and CF-100 while during the 1960's this number dropped to almost 490 fighter aircraft (hundreds) between CF-104s (F-104G), CF-101s (F-101) and CF-5s (F-5A) and then in the 1980's this number dropped to something around 270 fighter aircraft (few hundreds) between CF-18s (F/A-18) and CF-5s. And later in the 1990's the CF-5 were retired. Does this mean that the RCAF (CAF during that time) in the 1980's was less capable than it was in the 1960's or 1970's? I don't think so.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2018, 16:44
by mixelflick
Right, but the drop in total combat aircraft is also a function of something else (beyond increased capability) - COST.

It's pretty clear the air force wasn't going to replace the F-15 1:1 with the F-22. And 20 B-2's speaks volumes - wasn't ever going to replace the B-52's numbers, or for that matter the B-1B. The F-35 is the cheapest of that bunch, but it's still an expensive aircraft and fleets continue to shrink.

So... where does this game end? At the rate things are going, some of these other countries are going to be flying a few dozen aircraft in the future. Throw in poor readiness and you get maybe 12 - 15 aircraft that are airworthy. Extreme example, but you get my point. Not everyone has the kind of $ the USAF does, and can afford 1,700 examples. Even that figure is in question though, with the kind of deficits etc we're running...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2018, 18:21
by ricnunes
mixelflick wrote:Right, but the drop in total combat aircraft is also a function of something else (beyond increased capability) - COST.


Absolutely.
But in the end, why are fighter/combat aircraft much more expensive today compared to the past?
I believe the answer is quite straightforward: Aircraft are much more technologically advanced and as such much more expensive but at the same time you can do much more with much less quantity.


mixelflick wrote:It's pretty clear the air force wasn't going to replace the F-15 1:1 with the F-22. And 20 B-2's speaks volumes - wasn't ever going to replace the B-52's numbers, or for that matter the B-1B. The F-35 is the cheapest of that bunch, but it's still an expensive aircraft and fleets continue to shrink.

So... where does this game end? At the rate things are going, some of these other countries are going to be flying a few dozen aircraft in the future. Throw in poor readiness and you get maybe 12 - 15 aircraft that are airworthy. Extreme example, but you get my point. Not everyone has the kind of $ the USAF does, and can afford 1,700 examples. Even that figure is in question though, with the kind of deficits etc we're running...


Honestly I believe that no-one knows when this "game" will end. Perhaps when some new revolutionary technology which will be more advanced but at the same time much cheaper which would allow a much cheaper development, manufacturing and maintenance of fighter aircraft comes up then we will see at least the total number of fighter aircraft among air forces in general to become steady or even increasing again. Perhaps such technology is yet to come and as such a bit in the sci-fi field or who knows, it's already here with the F-35 itself where we have this newer generation (5th) fighter aircraft which costs the same or even less than previously generation fighter aircraft (4th/4.5th).
I guess that we may already be seeing something on this regard, regarding the F-35 with countries such as Netherlands or Japan already intending to order more F-35s than they initially planned.

Regarding availability/poor readiness because of having a low total number of aircraft, I believe that you must look at the following:
1- When you have a low number of aircraft you usually have a much better readiness percentage (%) compared to a country that has a bigger fleet. The downsize is that the country or countries with the smaller fleet will suffer the most regarding loses (attrition or even combat). So I don't think that "poor readiness" is something that affects countries with small fighter aircraft fleet unless their air forces are underfunded which would IMO affect the same way if those same countries had a much bigger fleet.
2- Modern technology such as for example ALIS in the case of the F-35 will vastly improve the fleet's readiness. Also using more and more ground based flight simulators will also help a lot the readiness, even among a small fleet of fighter aircraft.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2018, 18:30
by spazsinbad
Perhaps forgotten is the potential for allies to co-operate with their F-35s? This will be easy because the aircraft will be the same with regular exercises to enable this co-operation. Japan & USA & SEA others with F-35s for example but YMMV.

A recent example: Japan and Australia: Working Their Strategic Dynamic 13 Oct 2018

https://sldinfo.com/2018/10/japan-and-a ... c-dynamic/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Oct 2018, 18:57
by ricnunes
spazsinbad wrote:Perhaps forgotten is the potential for allies to co-operate with their F-35s? This will be easy because the aircraft will be the same with regular exercises to enable this co-operation. Japan & USA & SEA others with F-35s for example but YMMV.

A recent example: Japan and Australia: Working Their Strategic Dynamic 13 Oct 2018

https://sldinfo.com/2018/10/japan-and-a ... c-dynamic/



Yes indeed. That's a force multiplier on its own.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 Nov 2018, 15:20
by Dragon029
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/videonews ... 34-nnn-pol

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... royer.html

The Japanese government has decided to procure the F35B short take-off and vertical-landing (STOVL) stealth fighter aircraft as part of the new defense plan to be outlined next month.


In February 2018, the Yomiuri Shimbun reported that Japan was planning to acquire 40 vertical takeoff and landing F-35Bs, which could be operated from these ships with some alterations. In March this year, the ruling LDP called upon the Japanese government to develop its own aircraft carriers and operate F-35B aircraft, which has been thought to include refitting the Izumo class.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 26 Nov 2018, 20:23
by spazsinbad
Japan, F-35Bs for Izumo carriers, official https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yLlnuyRsAk


Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 01:03
by popcorn
Should give Beijing a bad case of indigestion. 8)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 04:54
by weasel1962
Will the F-35B now be designated a helicopter to fit into Izumo's helicopter destroyer designation?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 06:37
by spazsinbad
'weasel1962' said: "Will the F-35B now be designated a helicopter to fit into Izumo's helicopter destroyer designation?"

:devil: :doh: EXACTLY! Nailed it. :mrgreen: :roll: :twisted:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 06:58
by popcorn
It's a hovercraft. :D

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 07:01
by spazsinbad
'popcorn' said: "It's a hovercraft." :D

:mrgreen: EVEN BETTER! :roll: https://www.navyrecognition.com/images/ ... troyer.jpg

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 07:29
by Dragon029
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Intern ... rs-from-US

TOKYO -- Japan is preparing to order another 100 F-35 stealth fighter jets from the U.S. to replace some of its aging F-15s, according to sources.


This doesn't seem to be officially confirmed yet and I'm not sure if the 100 is just F-35As or F-35As + F-35Bs, but we might hear more very soon with the new defence plan being outlined next month.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 08:19
by Corsair1963
This is actually nothing new other than some of the F-35's maybe of the B Model. As Japan said it would order 100 Stealth Fighters by the end of 2018. So, considering the F-35 was the only one available. It was clear they meant the Lightning.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 08:58
by weasel1962
This is a new one. It will now be called a multipurpose "mother ship", not an aircraft carrier.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/ ... ther-ship/

Coming up next....F-35B GBUs will now be renamed as "postal articles". Very heavy postal articles....

The recipients will be stamped "out" and will be guaranteed to get the message.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 09:06
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: In English NavAv Jargon the flat deck is "MOTHER" so that is somehow reasonable but hilarious at the same time? :roll:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 09:22
by Corsair1963
Now the question is will Japan acquire additional Osprey's to operate in the AEW&C, Tanker, and/or COD roles from the Izumo???

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 09:27
by spazsinbad
'Corsair1963' said: "Now the question is will Japan acquire additional Osprey's to operate in the AEW&C, Tanker, and/or COD roles from the Izumo???"

The ships/aircraft are 'defenders' with small islands to operate from so I'm guessing a lot of those assets are not needed.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 09:30
by weasel1962
Someone didn't get the memo that Japan already bought the V-22 "helicopters".... sorry, hovercraft.........must have been at gunpoint to extend the Boeing production line, if some are to be believed.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 09:37
by spazsinbad
:mrgreen: This whole 'not calling a spade a spade' is just too much for this human unit. :doh:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 09:40
by Corsair1963
Seems like a “frivolous waste of time” to me.... :?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 09:45
by weasel1962
spazsinbad wrote::mrgreen: This whole 'not calling a spade a spade' is just too much for this human unit. :doh:


At least we can tell its a CV, F-35 or V-22 by looking at it, regardless of what its called. If you think its bad, pity the poor brits who have to digest the BS known as brexit. Can anyone explain what that is all about?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 10:51
by hythelday
weasel1962 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote::mrgreen: This whole 'not calling a spade a spade' is just too much for this human unit. :doh:


At least we can tell its a CV, F-35 or V-22 by looking at it, regardless of what its called. If you think its bad, pity the poor brits who have to digest the BS known as brexit. Can anyone explain what that is all about?


It's about something completely irrelevant both regarding JASDF, F-35 and military air in general. Don't bring this up lest this turns into "Tyndall AB and bad weather" type of disaster thread.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 11:54
by Gamera
Monday, 26 November 2018:
F-35A.
89-8710. AX-10.
Temporary F-35A Squadron, JASDF, based at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture.

Afternoon, took off, at Komaki AB, Aichi Prefecture.
15:18, landed, at Misawa AB.

10th of 10 JASDF F-35A scheduled in fiscal year 2018.
Before fiscal year 2018 end, Temporary F-35A Squadron will rename 302nd Hikoutai.

Two of six F-35A scheduled in fiscal year 2019, may arrive at Misawa AB early.
During fiscal year 2018, Misawa AB may have 12 F-35A.

2018 January, one F-35A arrived at Misawa AB.
Up to May, five.
June to August, one each.
November, one.

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F ... file/9216/

F-35 Aircraft Database

Airframe Details for F-35 #AX-10

JASDF
89-8710
F-35A

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2018 ... tohoku-l02
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2018 ... 2.view-000

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 19:42
by spazsinbad
OLD story now but has some reinforcement to the idea that IZUMO more easily upgraded even with a ski jump perhaps.
Officials Admit Japan's 'Helicopter Destroyers' Were Also Designed For Jets
27 Feb 2018 Tyler Rogoway

"Japanese Ministry of Defense executives have outright admitted that despite the Japanese government's past denials that the Izumo class "helicopter destroyers" were not designed to accommodate fixed-wing short takeoff and vertical landing (STOVL) tactical jets, they actually were designed with exactly that in mind....

The Asahi Shimbun quoted Maritime Self Defense Force sources stating the following:
“It is only reasonable to design (the Izumo) with the prospect of possible changes of the circumstances in the decades ahead... We viewed that whether the Izumo should be actually refitted could be decided by the government.”


...Asahi Shimbun's sources went on to say that a consensus was privately reached among the service's leadership that the Izumo class would be designed for conversion into a fixed-wing capable aircraft carrier in the future but the Japanese government would deny this due to the issues surrounding violating Article Nine of the Japanese constitution....

...The article goes on to outline that the class's hangar and elevators were built to dimensions that could accommodate the F-35B and the MV-22 Osprey—Japan already has MV-22s on order. Even the class's flight deck can supposedly withstand the heat and pressure generated by the F-35's scorching exhaust. The official also says the carriers' deck would likely be modified with a ski-jump if the F-35B were acquired...."

Photo: http://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/found ... ajad92.jpg

Source: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18 ... d-for-jets

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2018, 01:01
by spazsinbad
weasel1962 wrote:This is a new one. It will now be called a multipurpose "mother ship", not an aircraft carrier.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/ ... ther-ship/

Coming up next....F-35B GBUs will now be renamed as "postal articles". Very heavy postal articles....

The recipients will be stamped "out" and will be guaranteed to get the message.

VIA E-mail: From someone who reads/speaksJapanese.... [MOTHER is code for 'HOME the launch/arrest carrier in NavAv']
"Written Japanese for 'aircraft carrier' combines the characters for 'sky' and 'mother'."

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2018, 06:25
by lbk000
Well, for example I know in Chinese the term for carrier is literally written out as "Aviation (航空) Mothership (母舰)".

Likewise if the Japanese use similar phrasing and chose to replace "aviation" with "multipurpose" I can see it liable to draw emphasis to the "mothership" component, interpreted literally by a slightly hostile reporter, and then further misconstrued by an alien audience.
For all we know the intended (and natively understood) meaning is likely a much more mundane "Multirole Carrier".

Granted, politicians love playing word games, and in Asian cultures doubly so, but we should take care that we're not seeing what we wish to see here.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2018, 15:12
by spazsinbad
JAPAN AEROSPACE: Tokyo eyeing 100 more F-35s - report
28 Nov 2018 Greg Waldron

"...The first aircraft produced by Mitsubishi, AX-5, was sent to the USA for tests. It is now in service at the F-35 training school at Luke AFB, Arizona. So far, 10 examples have been delivered to the Japan Air Self Defense Force (JASDF), of which six have been produced at MHI’s Nagoya final assembly line.

Malone says the JASDF is expected to have 18 qualified F-35 pilots by February, and 180 maintainers. Also, six F-35 simulators will be in Japan by the first quarter 2019, allowing for the local training of pilots."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... po-453971/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2018, 21:20
by spazsinbad
Japan prepares to stand up first F-35 operational unit
28 Nov 2018 Mike Yeo

"TOKYO — Japan has graduated its first locally trained class of five F-35 pilots and is on track to make its first unit operational, according to a senior official with Japan’s F-35 program. Joel Malone told Defense News at the Japan International Aerospace Exhibition in Tokyo that the Japan Air Self-Defense Force is continuing to train more pilots, maintainers and other support personnel on the Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter.

F-35 jets with the JASDF are assigned to the Rinji F-35 Hkoutai, a temporary JASDF unit. Following the training of five more pilots and the delivery of more F-35s, the aircraft will be transferred to the JASDF’s 302 Hikoutai, which will retire its McDonnell Douglas/Mistubishi F-4EJ Kai Phantom IIs and move from Hyakuri, north of Tokyo, to Misawa in March 2019.

Japan initially trained a cadre of F-35 pilots and personnel with the 944th Operations Group and four of the JASDF’s aircraft at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona. The Japanese F-35s spent 18 months training at Luke AFB before returning earlier this year to Misawa, located at the northern part of Japan’s main island of Honshu...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... onal-unit/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 00:47
by weasel1962
Posted this 6 years back on CDF.

Potential F-35A airbases for aggressor to suppress in the Okinawa island chain
Airport Runway details Coordinates Deployment Distance to Taiwan
Kadena 2 runway 3,688m long, 61m/91m wide, 44m high 26021'06"N , 127046'10"E Multiple 625 km to Keelung
Naha 1 runway 3,000m long, 3m high, class II 26011'45"N , 127038'45"E Multiple 617 km to Keelung
Futenma 1 runway 2,740m long, 45m wide, 75m high 26016'15"N , 127044'53"E Multiple 625 km to Keelung

Add the below for F-35B airbases.
Table: runways sorted by distance to Taiwan
Airport Runway details Coordinates Apron size Deployment Distance to Taiwan
Yonaguni 1 runway 2,000m long, 45m wide, class C 24028'03"N, 122058'47"E 10,200 m2 sqn size 150km to Keelung
Hateruma 1 runway 1,500m long, 45m wide, class H 24003'30"N , 123048'14"E 22,038 m2 sqn size 242km to Keelung
Ishigaki 1 runway 1,500m long, 45m wide, class D 24020'41"N , 124011'13"E 22,038 m2 sqn size 267km to Keelung
Tarama 1 runway 1,500m long, 45m wide, class D 24038'13.7"N, 124040'31.6"E 7,700 m2 sqn size 313km to Keelung
Shimojishima 1 runway 3,000m long, 30m wide, class A 24049'36"N, 125008'41"E 129,200 m2 Multiple sqn 350km to Keelung
Hirara 1 runway 2,000m long, 45m wide, 149 ft high, class C 24046'58"N , 127017'42"E 27,500 m2 sqn size 367km to Keelung
Kumejima 1 runway 2,000m long, 45m wide, class C 26021'49"N, 126042'50"E 19,800 m2 sqn size 533km to Keelung
Kerama 1 runway 800m long, 25m wide, class H 26010'06"N , 127017'36"E 3,000 m2 1/2 sqn size 579km to Keelung
Aguni 1 runway 800m long, 25m wide, class H 26035'34"N , 127014'25"E 2,000 m2 1/2 sqn size 583km to Keelung
Iejima 1 runway 1,500m long, 45m wide, class D 26043'21"N , 127047'13"E 7,700 m2 sqn size 642km to Keelung
Yoron 1 runway 1,200m long, 14m high 27002'38"N , 128024'06"E ~8,500 m2 sqn size 717km to Keelung
Okinoerabu 1 runway 1,350m long, 27m high 27025'54"N , 128042'20"E ~12,000 m2 sqn size 754km to Keelung
Tokunoshima 1 runway 2,000m long, 2m high 27050'11"N , 128052'53"E ~10,800 m2 sqn size 792km to Keelung

Not counting AM-2 (or similar) runways besides DDHs...

Clearly Japan is buying into F-35B distributed ops.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 00:53
by spazsinbad
Thanks for the info repeat? Without me tediously looking via Google Earth at all those co-ordinates my question is: Are small Japanese islands included in that list. My general knowledge of Japanese environment is very poor indeed. :-(

As a general question where would Japanese AM-2 matting runways be located or co-located. Distributed STOVL Ops.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 02:30
by weasel1962
Yes they are. Give me a few minutes and I'll upload a nice google pic...

Image

Above are already existing runways in use.
AM-2 runway = anywhere there's a few hundred metres of flat load-bearing land.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 03:20
by spazsinbad
Brilliant - thanks for that - saves me a lot of hassle. Have the Japanese mentioned DSO Distributed STOVL Ops ala USMC?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 03:59
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:Someone didn't get the memo that Japan already bought the V-22 "helicopters".... sorry, hovercraft.........must have been at gunpoint to extend the Boeing production line, if some are to be believed.



Those Japanese Osprey's are already assigned other tasks.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 04:07
by weasel1962
spazsinbad wrote:Brilliant - thanks for that - saves me a lot of hassle. Have the Japanese mentioned DSO Distributed STOVL Ops ala USMC?


Hints but nothing concrete. Hints include:

Upgrade of Okinawa chain infrastructure.
Proposed deployment of F-35B to defend islands (not just Izumo).
USMC sharing of F-35B operation with Japan.

What would be concrete if a deployment exercise is executed just to demonstrate proof of concept. Currently everything is concentrated at Iwakuni which is Japan mainland.

They have deployed USMC Bs to Okinawa
https://www.1stmaw.marines.mil/Unit-Hom ... n-okinawa/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 04:10
by weasel1962
Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Someone didn't get the memo that Japan already bought the V-22 "helicopters".... sorry, hovercraft.........must have been at gunpoint to extend the Boeing production line, if some are to be believed.



Those Japanese Osprey's are already assigned other tasks.


Yup, assigned to other tasks on board the Izumo aka "helicopter" duties.
https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/japan-t ... -aircraft/

A number of V-22s will be stationed aboard the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force’s new 19,5000-ton helicopter carrier Izumo.


There was a simple reason why they landed a V-22 on the Hyuga in 2013.
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=74888

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 04:17
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Someone didn't get the memo that Japan already bought the V-22 "helicopters".... sorry, hovercraft.........must have been at gunpoint to extend the Boeing production line, if some are to be believed.



Those Japanese Osprey's are already assigned other tasks.


Yup, assigned to other tasks on board the Izumo aka "helicopter" duties.
https://thediplomat.com/2016/07/japan-t ... -aircraft/

A number of V-22s will be stationed aboard the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force’s new 19,5000-ton helicopter carrier Izumo.


There was a simple reason why they landed a V-22 on the Hyuga in 2013.
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=74888



Not in the role of AEW&C, COD, and/or Tanker.....So, additional aircraft maybe required. (my point)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 04:29
by spazsinbad
Bit of a basing problem with Japanese V-22s at moment.
Safety concerns delay delivery of V-22 Osprey aircraft to Japan
28 Nov 2018 Mike Yeo

"TOKYO — Japan’s first Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft are ready for delivery, but a dispute over where they will be based is holding up the process....

...The Japan Ground Self-Defense Force plans to temporarily base its Ospreys at Camp Kisarazu near Tokyo while it constructs additional facilities at Saga Airport near the city of Nagasaki, which is expected to become the permanent base of Japan’s tilt rotors.

This plan ran into opposition with local residents living near Camp Kisarazu, even though the base is already the site of a maintenance depot for American Ospreys based in Japan, and specifically Okinawa....

...When asked if Japan was keen on acquiring more Ospreys, Trautman [retired Lt. Gen. George Trautman, a former U.S. Marine aviator and commander of all Marine Corps aviation who now works as an adviser for Bell] told Defense News there was “no formal dialogue” beyond the 17 aircraft for Japan."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... -to-japan/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 04:39
by weasel1962
Corsair1963 wrote:Not in the role of AEW&C, COD, and/or Tanker.....So, additional aircraft maybe required. (my point)


I know this must be difficult for you to understand but as others have already highlighted, these aren't available in the 1st instant. I don't know why I bother since the same info below has been stated in so many threads but...

No mods are required for COD. The existing V-22s can operate in the COD. So why need additional?

The tanker is just a roll-on roll off module for existing V-22s so why need additional?

AEW V-22 - only on paper but as we all know "on paper" means in your Corsair1963 world, this is a point I'm certainly not going to belabor....

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 05:02
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:
I know this must be difficult for you to understand but as others have already highlighted, these aren't available in the 1st instant. I don't know why I bother since the same info below has been stated in so many threads but...

No mods are required for COD. The existing V-22s can operate in the COD. So why need additional?

The tanker is just a roll-on roll off module for existing V-22s so why need additional?

AEW V-22 - only on paper but as we all know "on paper" means in your Corsair1963 world, this is a point I'm certainly not going to belabor....


Japanese V-22 Ospreys are planned mainly as troop carriers.......

Also, no mods are need for the COD??? I suggest you talk to the USN as their CMV-22B have a number of modifications over standard Ospreys.

QUOTE: The CMV-22B incorporates an extended-range fuel system for an 1,150 nmi (1,320 mi; 2,130 km) unrefueled range, a high-frequency radio for over-the-horizon communications, and a public address system to communicate with passengers, the range increase comes from extra fuel bladders through larger external sponsons, the version's only physical difference from other Osprey variants. Its primary mission is long-range aerial logistics.....

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 06:15
by h-bomb
Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:
I know this must be difficult for you to understand but as others have already highlighted, these aren't available in the 1st instant. I don't know why I bother since the same info below has been stated in so many threads but...

No mods are required for COD. The existing V-22s can operate in the COD. So why need additional?

The tanker is just a roll-on roll off module for existing V-22s so why need additional?

AEW V-22 - only on paper but as we all know "on paper" means in your Corsair1963 world, this is a point I'm certainly not going to belabor....


Japanese V-22 Ospreys are planned mainly as troop carriers.......

Also, no mods are need for the COD??? I suggest you talk to the USN as their CMV-22B have a number of modifications over standard Ospreys.

QUOTE: The CMV-22B incorporates an extended-range fuel system for an 1,150 nmi (1,320 mi; 2,130 km) unrefueled range, a high-frequency radio for over-the-horizon communications, and a public address system to communicate with passengers, the range increase comes from extra fuel bladders through larger external sponsons, the version's only physical difference from other Osprey variants. Its primary mission is long-range aerial logistics.....


The Japanese COD does not have the range requirements the USN has. So they do not need the extra fuel capacity the USN did. They will do COD with standard aircraft as the internal dimensions are not changed. Also all those changes add only 270 nm range.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 06:49
by weasel1962
Yes, its really "massive" changes....on the external sponsons, yup its really very difficult to achieve, just like getting external fuel tanks. Most difficult is they need to change the light bulbs which is probably impossible for some people. At the same time, the PA is very critical as that probably needs to broadcast Japanese. Can charge another $151m just for that alone.

http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fu ... CD0266FE4E
As compared to the MV-22B, the Navy variant has extended operational range, a beyond line-of-sight HF radio, improved fuel dump capability, a public address system for passengers, and an improved lighting system for cargo loading. The CMV-22B will be capable of transporting up to 6,000 pounds of cargo/personnel to a 1,150 NM range.


The Japanese must have been really dumb to buy their MV-22s since they can't use it on the DDHs. *snort*

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 06:59
by weasel1962
I just realised that I missed out the massive HF radio improvement. Probably needs one that auto translates into Japanese using "snort wave".

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 10:21
by Corsair1963
Honestly, done wasting my time........

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 10:48
by weasel1962
Thanks then for not wasting any more of our time.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2018, 11:40
by weasel1962
Back to the discussion before it was side-tracked by "V-22 for japan which they already have" talk.

spazsinbad wrote:Brilliant - thanks for that - saves me a lot of hassle. Have the Japanese mentioned DSO Distributed STOVL Ops ala USMC?


The question also is whether the USMC can perform distributed ops in a China battle without the involvement of the Japanese? If the answer is no, then I would think it is inevitable that Japan would have to sign up for DSO.

Its not like there are many non-Japanese places to conduct distributed ops in that locality.

Digging up my notes in 2012, there was some discussion back then on the US military allowing civilian flights into Yokota for greater US military access to other Japan civilian runways.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/re ... story.html
http://www.toshiseibi.metro.tokyo.jp/ba ... nglish.pdf

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 04:27
by spazsinbad
So Japan requires marinized helos - please no more V-22 back & forth. So serious deck hardware on way eh: F-35Bs plus.
Japan sets naval-friendly requirement in search to replace AH-1S Cobra fleet
29 Nov 2018 Mike Yeo

"TOKYO — Japan is requiring its new attack helicopters be equipped for shipboard operations, as the country looks to replace its legacy Bell/Fuji Heavy Industries AH-1S Cobra attack helos. Japan’s request for information issued earlier this year called for the new helicopters to be marinized and able to operate from “expeditionary airfields or sea bases,”, said retired Lt. Gen. George Trautman, an adviser to Bell.

Speaking to Defense News at the Japan International Aerospace Exhibition in Tokyo, the former U.S. Marine aviator and commander of Marine Corps aviation said the RFI requested pricing and information for “30, 40 and 50” helicopters. He added that a request for proposals is expected in the next three to four months...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... bra-fleet/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 05:06
by popcorn
Navalized Apache-D.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 06:25
by weasel1962
Fuji built both the cobras and apaches locally. Viper, if bell gets it will be locally produced as well. The issue with Apaches was ironically "high cost" which resulted in Fuji suffering an early termination previously. Don't think airbus has a chance on this. If its cost as the determination, viper will win it. If its capability, apache.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 10:53
by boilermaker
spazsinbad wrote:So Japan requires marinized helos - please no more V-22 back & forth. So serious deck hardware on way eh: F-35Bs plus.
Japan sets naval-friendly requirement in search to replace AH-1S Cobra fleet
29 Nov 2018 Mike Yeo

"TOKYO — Japan is requiring its new attack helicopters be equipped for shipboard operations, as the country looks to replace its legacy Bell/Fuji Heavy Industries AH-1S Cobra attack helos. Japan’s request for information issued earlier this year called for the new helicopters to be marinized and able to operate from “expeditionary airfields or sea bases,”, said retired Lt. Gen. George Trautman, an adviser to Bell.

Speaking to Defense News at the Japan International Aerospace Exhibition in Tokyo, the former U.S. Marine aviator and commander of Marine Corps aviation said the RFI requested pricing and information for “30, 40 and 50” helicopters. He added that a request for proposals is expected in the next three to four months...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... bra-fleet/


Hopefully since Japan sees it sensible to buy F35Bs to put on the deck of their amphibious ships, maybe Australia will follow suit.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 15:07
by ricnunes
popcorn wrote:Navalized Apache-D.


Me thinks AH-1Z. (it would be a very "straightforward move", IMO)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 20:13
by steve2267
boilermaker wrote:
Hopefully since Japan sees it sensible to buy F35Bs to put on the deck of their amphibious ships, maybe Australia will follow suit.


In addition to building as many multi-mission mothership Izumos as possible, I think the Japanese should market those for export. Though I am unsure how large the market is.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 21:21
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Japan is working on a Gundam, maybe they want the F-35B to figure out a Veritech?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 22:45
by ChippyHo
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Japan is working on a Gundam, maybe they want the F-35B to figure out a Veritech?

Say WHAT????? :shrug:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 23:00
by usnvo
ChippyHo wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Japan is working on a Gundam, maybe they want the F-35B to figure out a Veritech?

Say WHAT????? :shrug:


Two Japanese Anime series. Really, that was pretty obvious wasn't it.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 23:24
by botsing
ChippyHo wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Japan is working on a Gundam, maybe they want the F-35B to figure out a Veritech?

Say WHAT????? :shrug:

It come from the Macross (Robotech) anime series.

If I understood well then a Gundam is an mechanized suit (mecha) where Veritech is like a transformer but then controlled by a human.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2018, 23:27
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Sorry for the :offtopic:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2018, 00:22
by spazsinbad
Yeah had me worried - I thought he was referring to GANGNAM STYLE but here is some 'related material to the ISLANDS.
Japan’s government to buy Mageshima island and let USN pilots practice carrier landings
30 Nov 2018 ALERT5

“The Japanese government is close to buying Mageshima island in Kagoshima Prefecture and will convert it into an airfield for U.S. Navy pilots to carry out Field Carrier Landing Practice. The negotiations started in 2016 and talks dragged on due to disagreement over the price. There are also plans to shift USMC MV-22B training to Mageshima island in future.”

[We can imagine that USMC & Japanese F-35Bs might go to this field landing practice area if made suitable - see below]

PHOTO: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... an01ss.jpg

Source: http://alert5.com/2018/11/30/japans-gov ... more-72706

Iejima “LHD deck” airstrip completed for use by U.S. military next month
23 Nov 2018 Ryukyu Shimpo (English translation by T&CT and Megumi Chibana)

"Expansion work on the airstrip simulating an LHD deck, a flight deck of an amphibious assault ship, at Iejima Auxiliary Airfield was recently finished. The U.S. Marine Corps explained to Ie Village and the Okinawa Defense Bureau that Marine Corps F-35B vertical takeoff stealth fighter aircraft and CH-53 heavy-lift transport helicopters will begin training there in December. This is the first time that the U.S. has revealed which aircraft models will be used on the airstrip.

According to Ie Village, a person in charge at the U.S. Marine Corps visited Mayor Hideyuki Shimabukuro on November 20, informing him that extension work had been completed and about the operations set to start in December...."

OLder INfo: http://english.ryukyushimpo.jp/2016/12/09/26128/ & http://english.ryukyushimpo.jp/2018/06/14/28933/

PHOTO: https://030b46df30379e0bf930783bea7c864 ... fa57f4.jpg

Source: http://english.ryukyushimpo.jp/2018/11/29/29593/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2018, 03:35
by charlielima223
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Japan is working on a Gundam, maybe they want the F-35B to figure out a Veritech?


Image

Image

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2018, 03:43
by spazsinbad
:shock: :devil: You will give me NIGHTMARES! :doh: IS that a new NICKaName :crazypilot: for the F-35? OR F-35C NITE MARE :drool: :roll: 8)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2018, 21:35
by spazsinbad
Over on SNAFU there is an explanation (not confirmed by me because I just don't care enough but interesting never-the-less) as pointed to earlier by '???'. I had no idea etc. https://www.snafu-solomon.com/2018/12/f ... qus_thread
'LCON' said: "...Note if you will the hull number 192. The Izumo class ships are DDH 183 and DDG 184.
Farther [further] more.
That model is in fact from a Japanese manga (comic book) Kubo Ibuki or Aircraft carrier Ibuki. That being the ship named in the title. A fictional telling of well the first Japanese carrier.
It's funny as this is a case of life imitating art, imitating life being confused for art.
The books were inspired by people pointing out that the two new Helicopter carrier classes were designed to support F35 and V22 operations. The author is something of a Japanese Tom Clancy. He took that and the Chinese carrier and territorial issues and set to the plot. It became popular there is a movie set to release next year based on it. And Japanese model makers took the design from the book and realized it as a model.
Than of course the recent report of the JSDF buy of F35B hits. And a quick web search for a Japanese F35 carrier will pull that up.
To prove my point: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt8649224/ & https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/ ... lm-in-2019 & http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/25413/index.htm (plastic model page with pics) "

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Dec 2018, 23:49
by ChippyHo
usnvo wrote:
ChippyHo wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:Japan is working on a Gundam, maybe they want the F-35B to figure out a Veritech?

Say WHAT????? :shrug:


Two Japanese Anime series. Really, that was pretty obvious wasn't it.

NOT - if one isn't a fan - but then i'll make sure to ask my 13 year old teenage son next time!

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Dec 2018, 00:45
by usnvo
ChippyHo wrote:
NOT - if one isn't a fan - but then i'll make sure to ask my 13 year old teenage son next time!


I'm not a fan nor is my 13yr old son (I think 13 is past the whole Anime thing anyway, at least in the Western world. I googled Japanese Anime Gundam to see what it was), but it was pretty obvious that it was a cultural reference and the only thing Japanese and "Sci-Fi"ish enough was an Anime series.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Dec 2018, 03:46
by ChippyHo
usnvo wrote:
ChippyHo wrote:
NOT - if one isn't a fan - but then i'll make sure to ask my 13 year old teenage son next time!


I'm not a fan nor is my 13yr old son (I think 13 is past the whole Anime thing anyway, at least in the Western world. I googled Japanese Anime Gundam to see what it was), but it was pretty obvious that it was a cultural reference and the only thing Japanese and "Sci-Fi"ish enough was an Anime series.


Good to know that you have so much time on your hands to research "Japanese Anime" (and hopefully nothing else!)
Now can we get back to something i actually give a poop about - namely something in the realm of "aviation" and "fighter jets" or do you need to Google those as well?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2018, 00:16
by spazsinbad
Japan confirms F-35Bs for Izumo ships [05 Dec 2018] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR-qKWwdrpY


Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2018, 00:37
by steve2267
I musta missed the following part in all the other stories I have read about Japan’s reported plan to acquire 100 additional F-35’s:

The lady in the video to which Spaz just linked clearly stated the Japan has announced or confirmed it plans to purchase an additional 100 F-35B fighter jets.

That would be a fantastic plus up for Bumble Bee...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2018, 02:14
by Corsair1963
steve2267 wrote:I musta missed the following part in all the other stories I have read about Japan’s reported plan to acquire 100 additional F-35’s:

The lady in the video to which Spaz just linked clearly stated the Japan has announced or confirmed it plans to purchase an additional 100 F-35B fighter jets.

That would be a fantastic plus up for Bumble Bee...



Sounds great but I have a hard time believing all 100 would be F-35B's More likely a split of ~40-50 between both models. (i.e. A-B)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2018, 21:15
by usnvo
Corsair1963 wrote:
steve2267 wrote:I musta missed the following part in all the other stories I have read about Japan’s reported plan to acquire 100 additional F-35’s:

The lady in the video to which Spaz just linked clearly stated the Japan has announced or confirmed it plans to purchase an additional 100 F-35B fighter jets.

That would be a fantastic plus up for Bumble Bee...



Sounds great but I have a hard time believing all 100 would be F-35B's More likely a split of ~40-50 between both models. (i.e. A-B)


It is always hard to decipher announcements, especially since Japan has already ordered some F-35s but not as many as they have stated they will order.

If it was just for their "helicopter destroyers" (There are only two and they are not exactly huge) it would be 40-50, but they have also discussed using them from smaller fields, especially on some of their outlying islands. One of the good things about the F-35 is you don't pay the huge penalty for having two types. At least not once you have the upfront investment. So if Japan decided to buy F-35Bs for their Navy (I mean really, JMSDF is a little silly although I digress) then buying more for their Air Force in lieu some of their already decided on F-35As is an attractive option. So my guess would be a hundred F-35Bs, some replacing already announced but not purchased yet F-35As for the Air Force and some additional ones for the Navy. That of course doesn't limit them from buying more F-35As either. The other problem is that this is all currently funny money and can change numerous times before it is finalized.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2018, 06:00
by spazsinbad
Ruling bloc working team OKs replacing 99 old F-15 fighters with F-35s
06 Dec 2018 Noriaki Kinoshita

"...The government decided to pick the F-35A stealth jet because some of the aircraft entered ASDF service this year and expanding its wing groups would be beneficial in terms of pilot training and maintenance. Some of the F-15 replacements will be F-35B models with short takeoff and vertical landing capabilities.

Regarding the Izumo-class upgrade, government officials had explained at the Diet that turning them into full-spec aircraft carriers is needed to strengthen Japan's Pacific coast defense posture because the land area on that side of the country is smaller compared to the facing waters within Japanese territory. During the Dec. 5 panel session, Komeito lawmakers questioned whether the explanation ran counter to an earlier government statement in the Diet that possessing "attack aircraft carriers" is forbidden under Japan's policy of keeping its defense capabilities to the minimum necessary. As a result, panel members decided to leave a decision on the matter to future meetings....

...Komeito election strategy chief Shigeki Sato, also acting chairman of the defense panel, told reporters that he will seek sufficient explanations about the Izumo-class upgrade from the government. "We must explain to the public why the upgrade is necessary," Sato said."

Source: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20 ... na/012000c

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Dec 2018, 06:36
by weasel1962
Japan operates F-15 hikotais (Sqn) in pairs from north to south. 99 would suggest 4 x hikotai replacement. Number of options here:

A. The Japanese could convert the pair of hikotais based at Naha (which shares with JMSDF) into Bs will be consistent with the distributed ops model. Coordinated training with USMC F-35Bs already using iejima would be easier.

B. Alternatively they could base Bs at Nyutabaru (which is near the JMSDF base at Kanoya) and leave the As at Naha. That way, the Bs can deploy to the other Okinawa island airfields without touching Naha.

C. Option C, base the Bs at Chitose which is not far from Yokosuka where the Izumos are based.

The Izumos can't carry that many Bs. What would be interesting is to see if the JASDF will adopt a 16 x B sqn size rather than the standard 24. Basing at options A and B would probably suggest a smaller B role for the LHDs.

B's strength is really basing flexibility. So I can't see why JASDF will procure beyond 2 squadron's worth of Bs since the cheaper As could do the job. Will wait for official announcement.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2018, 01:42
by weasel1962
Japan has ditched mother-ship and settled on “multi-purpose operation destroyer” as the changed designation for the Izumos.

via alert5...
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201812060055.html

At least its DDOMP rather than DDAMP (Amph).

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2018, 22:18
by spazsinbad
Interesting video accompanying this FIRST article below.
Defense guidelines to call for carrier function
11 Dec 2018 NHKworld

"Japan's new defense guidelines are to call for having the Maritime Self-Defense Force's largest destroyer function as an aircraft carrier, to strengthen defense of regional waters. Japan's government aims to decide next week on the new National Defense Program Guidelines. Its draft was presented to an expert panel on Tuesday...."

Source: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20181211_37/

Japan to convert helicopter carrier Izumo into aircraft carrier
11 Dec 2018 Nikkei staff

"TOKYO -- Japan plans to convert the Maritime Self-Defense Force's helicopter carrier Izumo into an aircraft carrier under a new basic defense program to be adopted later this month....

...The government intends to adopt the new defense program at a cabinet meeting on Dec. 18. The ruling Liberal Democratic Party and its junior coalition partner, Komeito, will hold a working-level meeting later Tuesday to discuss the program outline.

Komeito, historically a dovish party, has called on the government to give a full explanation as to why the Izumo needs to be converted into an aircraft carrier, and to eliminate contractions between that policy and the government's remarks
on the matter in parliament."

Source: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Japan- ... ft-carrier

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 12 Dec 2018, 08:01
by Corsair1963
Any word if the Japanese F-35B's going to be operated by the JASDF (Air Force) or JMSDF (Navy)???

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2018, 00:22
by spazsinbad
Japan moves forward on F-35 buy, aircraft carrier transformation
12 Dec 2018 Tara Copp

"TOKYO — Japan is expected to announce new defense guidelines next week that would transform its newest warship into an aircraft carrier and pave the way for a major purchase of as many as 147 F-35s, the parliamentary vice minister of defense for Japan’s ruling party [why not name the guy?] said Wednesday.

Converting Japan’s newest warship, the JS Izumo helicopter destroyer, into an aircraft carrier that would carry the advanced F-35B vertical takeoff Joint Strike Fighter would mark a major shift in the post-war makeup of Japan’s Maritime Self Defense Forces....

...The Liberal Democratic Party and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe are expected to release defense guidelines next week that will take that more assertive approach, said Keitaro Ohno, [THANKS] LDP’s parliamentary vice minister for defense....

...Transforming the Izumo to be able to support the F-35 won’t cost much, as the new and modern warship, which was commissioned in 2015, already has the basics to support the vertical takeoff fighters, Ohno said. The biggest price tag [sounds just like Oz LHDs] will be a planned buy of up to 147 F-35s to both outfit the Izumo and replace Japan’s aging fleet of F-4 and F-15 fighters. Ohno said that about 40 of the aircraft would be F-35Bs for the Izumo, and 107 would be F-35As to replace the F-4s and F-15s....

…The Izumo was initially designed [not ONLY but ALSO operate F-35Bs almost] to carry SH-60 helicopters and conduct primarily regional humanitarian and search and rescue missions. The Izumo carries a crew of about 400 and is roughly the same size as the Wasp-class amphibious assault ship.

The new defense guidelines do not commit Japan to the buy, but make it possible for the leading party to move forward on seeking funding for the purchase in the next Diet session...."

Source: https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your ... -f-35-buy/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2018, 09:36
by weasel1962
Whilst Ohno was saying about 40, mainichi which is Japan's national daily is specific on 42 Bs.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20 ... na/019000c

Weasel's note: 2 hikotais with sqn size in between 16-24.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2018, 10:37
by spazsinbad
The article from 'weasel1962' URL above says:
Japan gov't looking to buy 105 more F-35 stealth fighters
13 Dec 2018 Noriaki Kinoshita

"TOKYO -- The government is moving to buy a further 105 F-35 stealth fighters, 42 of which will be F-35B short-takeoff and vertical landing variants of the aircraft. This will bring the total number of F-35s in Japan's inventory to 147, including the 42 already slated for purchase. Funding for about half of the initial 42 aircraft will be included in the Mid-term Defense Program budget outline for the five fiscal years starting from April 2019, set to be finalized by Cabinet decision on Dec. 18....

...The F-35B variants included in the latest purchase plan are expected to be operated from the Maritime Self-Defense Force's Izumo-class vessels after their conversion from helicopter carriers to true aircraft carriers.

However, with each F-35A costing an estimated 10 billion yen (about $88 million) and F-35Bs clocking in at some 15 billion yen (about $132 million), the total outlay for 105 of the aircraft would exceed 1.26 trillion yen (about $11.1 billion). The next five-year Mid-term Defense Program budget draft appears likely to be settled in the 27 trillion yen range. However, the Finance Ministry's Fiscal System Council has called for that to be trimmed by at least 1 trillion yen by efficient equipment acquisitions, making a lower funding total probable."

Source: https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20 ... na/019000c

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 13 Dec 2018, 17:06
by jakobs
Some part of me just want to scream at them to get more B's.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2018, 10:37
by weasel1962
Looking at the original order of 42 As with 42 Bs and 63 As in the upcoming order, appears to suggest ~21 per sqn or 7 sqns in total (7x21 = 147).

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2018, 12:37
by spazsinbad
Do Japanese air forces account for attrition, long term maintenance, replacement or spares or whatever? I have no idea.
Japan Calls For STOVL Fighters, Plan For 42 F-35Bs Reported
13 Dec 2018 Bradley Perrett

"Japan needs STOVL aircraft operated from currently available ships to guard against threats from its Pacific Ocean side of the country, according to a summary of results of the meeting published by the office of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, days before the expected release of a five-year defense acquisition program.

Buying 100 F-35s, including some of the F-35B STOVL version, has been expected in the five-year plan, which will start on April 1, 2019; they would be in addition to a current program for 42 F-35As.

In fact, there will be 42 F-35Bs, the Mainichi newspaper said. They will operate from the helicopter carrier Izumo, which will reportedly be modified for that purpose. Modification of Izumo’s sibling, Kaga, is not mentioned but would surely also occur, to ensure that one ship with F-35Bs was always available....

...Half of the F-35Bs will be bought in fiscal 2019-23, the paper said, implying the other half will come in 2024-28 or later. The other 63 additional Lightnings presumably will be F-35As, designed for long runways; there is no indication of timing for them.

Japan eventually will buy a total of 147 F-35s if these plans go ahead. The 2019-23 acquisition plan is due to be published this month. The Mainichi said it will appear on Dec. 18.

In reporting the outcome of the party meeting, Abe’s office does not spell out what threat from the Pacific side of the Japanese islands would be countered by STOVL fighters operating from ships. But an obvious concern is cruise missile attacks by Chinese H-6K bombers, built by the Xian Aircraft subsidiary of Avic.

The value of operating F-35Bs from short runways on small islands that stretch southwest of Japan’s main territory toward China has also been mentioned. The runways’ proximity to China implies vulnerability to attack, hence the utility of aircraft that can operate from not much concrete....

...The Japanese government reportedly decided on Dec. 11 that Izumo would be modified to operate F-35Bs but would not do so permanently and would not be classed as an aircraft carrier."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/japan-c ... s-reported

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2018, 12:43
by sferrin
This is what a death spiral looks like right? :twisted:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 14 Dec 2018, 21:51
by spazsinbad
I don't know if the SCALE is correct - image sent via e-mail - seems credible by sender. IZUMO 14 F-35B Hangarage Idea.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2018, 11:39
by spazsinbad
Japan to buy more U.S.-made stealth jets, radar to counter China, Russia
18 Dec 2018 Tim Kelly

"TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan will accelerate spending on advanced stealth fighters, long-range missiles and other equipment over the next five years to support U.S. forces facing China’s military in the Western Pacific, two new government defense papers said....

MORE STEALTH FIGHTERS
Japan plans to buy 45 Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-35 stealth fighters, worth about $4 billion, in addition to the 42 jets already on order, according to a separate five-year procurement plan approved on Tuesday. The new planes will include 18 short take off and vertical landing (STOVL) B variants of the F-35 that planners want to deploy on Japanese islands along the edge of the East China Sea....

...The navy’s two large helicopter carriers, the Izumo and Kaga, will be modified for F-35B operations, the paper said. The 248-metre (814 ft) long Izumo-class ships are as big as any of Japan’s aircraft carriers in World War Two. They will need reinforced decks to withstand the heat blast from F-35 engines and could be fitted with ramps to aid short take-offs, two defense ministry officials told Reuters...."

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japa ... SKBN1OH05Z

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2018, 16:00
by mixelflick
Good God, a hundred more? That's quite a testament to its capabilities.

When your customers get their hands on it and there are follow on orders like this, it speaks volumes...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2018, 16:45
by ricnunes
Death Spiral... :mrgreen:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2018, 21:34
by XanderCrews
"They're going to Cancel the B any day now."

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2018, 22:14
by spazsinbad
Carriers Izumo, Kaga, F-35B future approved https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J37anUsXdMM



Carriers Izumo, Kaga, F-35Bs approved, report https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udQx-v8cGPo


Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Dec 2018, 22:24
by spazsinbad
Japan to have first aircraft carriers since World War II
18 Dec 2018 Brad Lendon and Yoko Wakatsuki

"Tokyo (CNN) — Japan is poised to put its firstaircraft carriers to sea since World War II, refitting its Izumo-class warships to carry US-designed F-35B fighter jets, the government announced Tuesday. In its 10-year Defense Program Guidelines, Tokyo said it will buy 42 of the stealthy F-35Bs

...Japan will also increase its order for F-35A jets, which take off and land on conventional runways, to 105, the government said. Forty-two of those jets are in service or were part of earlier Japanese orders.... The purchases will be spread over 10 years, with 27 of the F-35As and 18 of the F-35Bs to be acquired, as well as the two warships to be refitted, in the first five years…..

...A defensive plan
In announcing the spending plan Tuesday, Japan stressed it is designed to buttress those defenses. The plan realizes the need to drastically strengthen Japan's defense and expand its role while the security environment around the country changes rapidly, the Defense Ministry said. Choosing an expanded F-35 fleet enmeshes the Japanese Self-Defense Force with US and allied militaries around Asia, experts say....

...Wallace said the future could conceivably see US F-35s operating from Japanese ships and/or Japanese F-35s flying off American ones....

...Japanese government officials said all the planes in the new order will be imported."

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/18/asia ... index.html

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 01:29
by spazsinbad
Japan unveiled new plans for an F-35 aircraft carrier — and it's a Chinese navy killer
19 Dec 2018 Alex Lockie

"...
• China’s navy has formidable air defences and could likely destroy Japanese helicopters and F-15s in battle. But the stealth F-35Bs give the carriers a fifth-generation fighter, the likes of which China has never before seen.

• In the future, Japan could network with the US to relay targeting data from the F-35s to destroyers, which can strike targets as far away as 1,500 miles....

...In the future, Bronk [Justin Bronk, an aerial-combat expert at the Royal United Services Institute] said Japan will most likely leverage the F-35B’s extreme surveillance and recon capabilities to provide weapons-quality target information to other platforms, like Japanese or US warships, which can fire off their own missiles and allow the F-35Bs to stay in stealth mode without opening up the weapons bay...."

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/japa ... vy-2018-12

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 02:14
by steve2267
Also from the same article:

Japan unveiled new plans for an F-35 aircraft carrier — and it's a Chinese navy killer
19 Dec 2018 Alex Lockie

...

The F-35, of which Japan wants to become the world’s second-largest buyer, has much of the F-22’s stealth and avionics prowess, but has much shorter range.

...

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/japa ... vy-2018-12


I don’t know what to make of Lockie. He doesn’t strike me as anti-F-35 as Majumbles or Axe... but many of his articles have gems like the above.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 02:17
by popcorn
steve2267 wrote:Also from the same article:

Japan unveiled new plans for an F-35 aircraft carrier — and it's a Chinese navy killer
19 Dec 2018 Alex Lockie

...

The F-35, of which Japan wants to become the world’s second-largest buyer, has much of the F-22’s stealth and avionics prowess, but has much shorter range.

...

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/japa ... vy-2018-12

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and attribute this to laziness.
I don’t know what to make of Lockie. He doesn’t strike me as anti-F-35 as Majumbles or Axe... but many of his articles have gems like the above.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 03:03
by SpudmanWP
Japan unveiled new plans for an F-35 aircraft carrier — and it's a Chinese navy killer
19 Dec 2018 Alex Lockie

...

The F-35, of which Japan wants to become the world’s second-largest buyer, has much of the F-22’s stealth and avionics prowess, but has much shorter range.

...

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/japa ... vy-2018-12


While the F-35B has a shorter range vs the F-22, the F-35 outranges the F-22 in combat config (ie no external munitions & EFTs).

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 08:09
by Corsair1963
Now that Japan has made it official that it will buy the F-35B and modify the Izumo to operate them. I have a few questions.....


1.) Will the F-35B's be operated by the JASDF (Air Force) and/or JMSDF (Navy)?

2.) Will Izumo sister ship Kaga also modify into an Aircraft Carrier?

3.) What about the smaller Hyūga-class? Any discussion about them?

4.) Any time table to the start and completion of the modifications to Izumo and possibly Kaga?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 09:19
by spazsinbad
I'm not sure what you think we are here however I make it my business - if possible - to post as much information as has been posted & that is all I know. Others may know more/read Japanese to gain more knowledge but afaik all info is here.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 16:13
by knowan
Corsair1963 wrote:2.) Will Izumo sister ship Kaga also modify into an Aircraft Carrier?


From what I remember reading, both ships will be modified.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 16:29
by spazsinbad
knowan wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote: 2.) Will Izumo sister ship Kaga also modify into an Aircraft Carrier?

From what I remember reading, both ships will be modified.

REUTERS said this from previous page this thread: "...The navy’s two large helicopter carriers, the Izumo and Kaga, will be modified for F-35B operations, the paper said. The 248-metre (814 ft) long Izumo-class ships...". Why is this not known?

CNN said this same day 18th: "... the two warships to be refitted, in the first five years….." Why does this need a repeat?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 17:36
by spazsinbad
Japan seeks drones, subs, F-35 jets as part of $243 billion defense-spending plan
19 Dec 2018 Mike Yeo

"...The long-awaited documents, released Tuesday afternoon Tokyo time and formally approved by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s Cabinet, would see Japan spend almost $243 billion on defense over the next five fiscal years, which in Japan begins April 1 and ends March 31 the following year. Known as the National Defense Program Guidelines and the Mid-Term Defense Plan, or MTDP, the documents outline Japan’s defense policy and outlook for the next five fiscal years as the country grapples with the rising economic and military power by regional rival China and the threat posed by North Korea’s nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles.

The biggest news to come out of the MTDP was the confirmation that Japan will seek to add to its buy of an additional 105 Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters, which would include 42 F-35B short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing aircraft, although this was not much of a surprise, as Japan’s Ministry of Defense had briefed a number of reporters about the details prior to the guidelines' release.

But the MTDP provided more details, particularly that Japan plans to acquire 45 F-35s, including 18 "B" models over the next five years, with the remainder of Japan’s F-35 force being the F-35A conventional takeoff and landing variant. The F-35s will allow the Japan Air Self-Defense Force to up its number of fighter squadrons by one, to 13 total, most likely by converting the JASDF’s photo-reconnaissance unit into a fighter squadron as it retires the Mitsubishi RF-4 Phantom aircraft sometime in 2020....

Local industry to benefit
Japan’s defense industry is set to benefit from the procurement plans outlined in the MTDP, with several projects being handled by local companies. In addition to modifications of two Izumo-class helicopter destroyers to operate the F-35B…"

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... ding-plan/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 18:21
by spazsinbad
Japan Programs 105 More F-35s, Including STOVLs [more at the jump about how aircraft trickle into being]
18 Dec 2018 Bradley Perrett

"BEIJING—Japan has programmed the acquisition of a further 105 Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightnings, including F-35Bs for operation from converted helicopter carriers. As an initial move toward the larger F-35 force, Japan will buy 45 aircraft of the type in the five fiscal years beginning April 1, 2019, including eight F-35As previously programmed.

Setting out its policy in a document published Dec. 18, the defense ministry also said it would drop local assembly of F-35s, which has been blamed for contributing to the high price Japan has been paying for the stealth fighters.

...Unlike most of the first batch of Japanese F-35s, those bought in fiscal 2019 and later will not be put together at the MHI final assembly and checkout plant at Nagoya. Instead, Japan will take them directly from Lockheed Martin, as most customers do.

The F-35As that Japan bought in fiscal 2016 cost $131 million each, compared with the price of $108 million the U.S. paid at about that time for deliveries from Lockheed Martin. Japanese media have pointed the finger at local assembly as a factor in the high price.

The Nagoya plant is being outfitted for maintenance, although Lockheed Martin has said that this alteration will not affect final assembly capacity. The ministry may have decided that, since MHI now knows how to put F-35s together, a process that will later be applied in overhauls, there is no longer much point in paying for such work during procurement...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/japan-p ... ing-stovls

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 18:35
by steve2267
Makes me wonder about the price of those Italian stallions...

Belgium: Ummm... but we want the Fort Worth jets... They're cheaper than those Maseratti's...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 19:33
by SpudmanWP
The Italians were smart as the FACO is just that, an assembly plant. They did not try to make as many things locally as possible and will be converting the FACO to a major DEPOT when they are done with FACO duties. It will be used by many in the EU area so that their jets do not have to go to the US for major overhaul or repair.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 21:11
by spazsinbad
Good video with some Japanese 'word salad' prevarication about 'name calling' their modified for F-35B ops "IZUMO class flat deck destroyer helo carriers". <phew> Particularly I like the 'expert' commentary at the end saying the F-35B can only be used for Fleet Air Defence because it is limited and cannot carry out offensive ops due range limitations. I'm offended.
Analysis: "Aircraft Carrier"Plan in Japan's New Defense Policy VIDEO
18 Dec 2018 NHK

Source: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news ... 193501157/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 21:21
by spazsinbad
Japan OKs Extra F-35 Buy in Fighter Re-equipment Plans
19 Dec 2018 David Donald

"Japan’s cabinet has approved a major additional purchase of 105 F-35s to add to the 42 aircraft already on order. Significantly, the number includes 42 of the F-35B STOVL (short takeoff, vertical landing) version, which will operate from island bases along Japan’s western seaboard and two converted Izumo-class helicopter carriers. Japan also approved work to modify the vessels, Izumo and Kaga, to operate up to 10 F-35Bs each—including deck strengthening. The announcement confirms Japanese press reports that have been circulating since earlier in the year...."

Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ment-plans

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Dec 2018, 01:28
by spazsinbad
Carrier Izumo, F-35B plan by Takeshi Iwaya https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HsVsss0h4o


Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Dec 2018, 08:10
by knowan
Given Japan will need to replace their F-2 and F-15 aircraft at about the time their F-35 order is completed, I suspect they might end up buying another 100-150 F-35s.

They may be hoping another 5th Gen aircraft becomes available by that point however.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Dec 2018, 08:59
by Corsair1963
knowan wrote:Given Japan will need to replace their F-2 and F-15 aircraft at about the time their F-35 order is completed, I suspect they might end up buying another 100-150 F-35s.

They may be hoping another 5th Gen aircraft becomes available by that point however.




The new F-35's will replace all of the F-4's and F-15's. While, it is hoped a New 6th Generation Fighter will arrive in time to replace the F-2's.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Dec 2018, 11:12
by Corsair1963
Makes you wonder the reaction of South Korea to the news??? Will they in turn place a large order for F-35's??? (a smaller one was expected)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 20 Dec 2018, 15:37
by sferrin
Corsair1963 wrote:Makes you wonder the reaction of South Korea to the news??? Will they in turn place a large order for F-35's??? (a smaller one was expected)


Why? While there's no love between SK and Japan, they don't see each other as enemies. A shame they don't work on mending fences.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 21 Dec 2018, 03:16
by weasel1962
If one actually takes the KTX, you'd see the nice adverts about Dokdo or movies like admiral roaring currents...then one can understand how South Korea views Japan.

JAPANESE DEFENSE UPGRADES FOR F-35 AND MORE

Unread postPosted: 24 Dec 2018, 04:12
by edpop
Japan Looks to the Future
Japanese Government gives green light to recapitalisation of defence assets
Report by Jaryd Stock - December 19, 2018

Yesterday in Tokyo the Japanese Government gave the green light to a major shake-up within its defence forces. Most notably in the news coming from that press conference, and due to the current political climate and tensions within the Asia-Pacific region, is the plan to upgrade the aircraft-destroyer the Japanese Ship (JS) Izumo which with a full displacement comes to 27,000 tons. The noteworthy news about this is that the Japan Marine Self Defence Force (JMSDF) more to the point the Japanese Government plans to upgrade the Izumo to accommodate the Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning, the Short Take-Off Vertical Landing variant of the F-35. The JS Izumo and her sister ship the JS Kaga are the largest combat surface ships to enter service with the JMSDF since World War Two, with both ships commissioned on the 25th of March 2015 and 22nd of March 2017 respectively.

The Helicopter Destroyer as it's officially labeled is, in essence, designed to project Japanese forces at quite a considerable distances away from mainland Japan with particular focus on landing ground forces via helicopter, or embark helicopters for humanitarian missions around the Pacific which actually did take place after the 2015 earthquake off the coast of Japan. But there has always been speculation within the Japanese media and for that matter surrounding countries that these ships were eventually going to carry the F-35B which the Japanese Government until now had never made a formal address whether they were indeed going to or not going to purchase the Bravo variant of the Lightning.
In the statement provided yesterday, the JASDF would acquire forty-two F-35B's which would see the aircraft also operate from the JS Izumo and will see the ship undergo a major refit upgrading the ship to accommodate the F-35B. Upgrades will include similar upgrades the United States Navy undertook to their own 40,000 ton Wasp Class Landing Helicopter Docks (LHD's) and 44,000 ton America Class LHD's.

Firstly the heat generated from the F-35B is quite intense on the non-skid deck the aircraft operate from, so a new heat resistant non-skid surfacing will be applied to the main deck with structural support added underneath landing spots to accommodate the aircraft especially with regards to the two to three vertical landing spots to the rear of the carrier. With no ski ramp at the fore of the ship the aircraft will conduct launch operations similar to that of USMC AV-8B Harrier's and F-35B Lightnings onboard the U.S. LHD's. The heat resistant deck will also allow operations of the MV-22B Osprey onboard the carriers.

[...]

Read more at http://aviationphotodigest.com/japan-lo ... he-future/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2018, 01:06
by weasel1962
Converted Izumo carriers to not operate fighters in 'normal times': defense minister

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20 ... na/004000c

YOKOSUKA, Kanagawa -- The Maritime Self-Defense Force (MSDF)'s Izumo-class helicopter carriers will "not operate fighters during normal times," even after their effective conversion to aircraft carriers, Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya stated here on Dec. 19.

Iwaya made the comment after touring the Izumo helicopter carrier at the MSDF's Yokosuka base in Kanagawa Prefecture, south of Tokyo. The visit came a day after the Cabinet approved new defense guidelines and the next five-year midterm defense buildup program, which included converting the Izumo-class vessels effectively into aircraft carriers. It also specified the acquisition of stealth F-35B short takeoff and vertical landing fighter planes, which can be operated from carriers.

The conversion plan has faced questions over whether the ships would constitute "attack carriers." Critics have pointed out that this would violate the Japanese Constitution's prohibition on maintaining any "war potential." However, the Izumo ships "will not operate fighters during normal times. They will not threaten other countries or cause uneasiness," Iwaya explained.

(Japanese original by Noriaki Kinoshita, Political News Department)


Weasel's note: Thought this may be a potential example of how F-35B & F-35B equipped LHDs could generally operate. Peacetime, Bs would operate from land bases.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2018, 01:34
by spazsinbad
'weasel1962' said above: "Weasel's note: Thought this may be a potential example of how F-35B & F-35B equipped LHDs could generally operate. Peacetime, Bs would operate from land bases." That is how I see 'Oz F-35Bs on Oz LHDs' however the LHDs would need to be minimally modified to allow potential use of a minimal number of F-35Bs for Fleet Air Defence, nodes in the network, PLAN JERICHO and PLAN PELORUS and all that palaver, with sometime practice embarkation also.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Dec 2018, 07:20
by Corsair1963
The Australian F-35B's would have to regularly train with the LHD's (Canberra Class) to say current.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Jan 2019, 20:13
by spazsinbad
Japan wants to sell old F-15s to US to fund F-35 purchases
24 Dec 2018 GAKU SHIMADA & MASAYA KATO

"Washington considers reselling the used jets to Southeast Asian governments

TOKYO -- The Japanese government is considering selling some F-15 jets to the U.S. to raise funds for purchases of cutting-edge F-35 stealth fighters, Nikkei has learned, with Washington in turn weighing the sale of those outdated planes to Southeast Asian countries....

...Japan's roughly 200 F-15s form the core of the Air Self-Defense Force's air defense capabilities. About half the fleet has undergone modernizing overhauls, including updates to electronic equipment, but the 100 or so fighters being eyed for a sale are an older design that cannot receive the electronics upgrades. The government decided at a cabinet meeting last Tuesday to gradually swap these out for more capable F-35s....

...Japan's planned F-35 purchase was due in part to heavy pressure from U.S. President Donald Trump [?] to narrow the wide bilateral trade imbalance by buying more American defense hardware. Tokyo hopes to appease Trump while using the F-15 sale to lower costs...."

Source: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Japan- ... -purchases

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Jan 2019, 22:14
by ChippyHo
Just a crazy notion - do the JASDF '15s have enough life left to be purchased and used as aggressor aircraft?
Or even crazier an idea - why not use them as Conus interceptor aircraft in the short term and retire some of the older and more worn out USAF Eagles...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Jan 2019, 22:51
by SpudmanWP
I don't think that there is anything that can be considered a CONUS only fighter anymore. IIRC all units, including Reserve and ANG rotate through overseas deployments.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Jan 2019, 22:55
by ChippyHo
Well, I'd say the aggressor units (57FW) at Nellis are very task specific.
Besides i'd say that not all deployments require stealth gen 5 birds.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Jan 2019, 23:08
by steve2267
Maybe Canaduh might be interested in some used twin engine fighters with a big radar at a terrific price?

Since Israel (re)names their US birds, Trudeau could even call it the F-15T Arrow...

:devil:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Jan 2019, 23:18
by ChippyHo
Steve
With all due respect - you're neither amusing or informative. You're prejudice is a little too obvious.
Go have one of those piss yellow beverages you guys call beer and lie down till you feel better.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 02:09
by weasel1962
ChippyHo wrote:Just a crazy notion - do the JASDF '15s have enough life left to be purchased and used as aggressor aircraft?
Or even crazier an idea - why not use them as Conus interceptor aircraft in the short term and retire some of the older and more worn out USAF Eagles...


+1. I won't be surprised if the USAF takes a page from the USMC UK Harrier fleet buyout to keep the fleet flying.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 03:50
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:
+1. I won't be surprised if the USAF takes a page from the USMC UK Harrier fleet buyout to keep the fleet flying.



Doubtful as Davis-Monthan has ~ 166 F-15's currently in storage. Which, will be followed shortly by a similar number of F-15C's from both the USAF and ANG.

That said, maybe Israel would be interested until enough F-35A's come online. Yet, they likely would only want F-15D's. :wink:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 07:24
by weasel1962
The 166 is broken down into 54 A, 6 B, 96 C, 9 D and 1 E. The C/D inventory based on the 2018 US almanac was 212 C and 23 D. The purpose of Amarc is to reclaim spare parts and the eventual disposal of spent airframes.

One only has to see how many of the AV-8 airframes out of the original 74 purchased are still in "current" status to know how many have been cannibalised in this short span of time to keep the current fleet flying.

If one believes that the F-15C is going to be retired tomorrow, no argument that even 1 airframe is not required.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 09:50
by element1loop
Corsair1963 wrote:That said, maybe Israel would be interested until enough F-35A's come online. Yet, they likely would only want F-15D's. :wink:


They have 14 now and another 8 by the end of 2019 (iirc). Seems enough for value-adding the current legacy force with their integration. Anything they obtained from Japan would require time to update and integrate systems.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 10:04
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:The 166 is broken down into 54 A, 6 B, 96 C, 9 D and 1 E. The C/D inventory based on the 2018 US almanac was 212 C and 23 D. The purpose of Amarc is to reclaim spare parts and the eventual disposal of spent airframes.

One only has to see how many of the AV-8 airframes out of the original 74 purchased are still in "current" status to know how many have been cannibalised in this short span of time to keep the current fleet flying.

If one believes that the F-15C is going to be retired tomorrow, no argument that even 1 airframe is not required.



Then it's settled as the USAF is going to retire the F-15C....


QUOTE:

October 9, 2018

Defense’s 30-Year Aircraft Plan Reveals New Details

Each year, the Department of Defense issues a 30-year aviation plan, intended to chart the direction of the aviation enterprise. This plan is typically relatively short on specifics, in part because 30 years is rather far to foresee in detail, particularly as that goes 25 years beyond official defense budget projections.

By contrast, the most recent 30-year aviation plan released in April 2018 is full of details on specific programs, including cancellations, life extensions, and new starts. Some are explicit; others, between the lines. Some of the highlights follow.

Air Force
The Air Force previously announced plans to retire the air-superiority F-15C Eagle. But this plan declares an intention to refresh and extends the life of the F-15E Strike Eagles, the attack variant.

The Air Force has also decided to extend the life of its F-16 Fighting Falcon fleet. What do the F-15E and the F-16 have in common? They are both slated to be replaced by the F-35 Lightning II. This new plan may show the Air Force hedging in case F-35s do not arrive as fast as hoped and thus has to extend existing airframes to fill the gap. The target quantity of F-35s has not changed; the Air Force still expects to buy 1,763. But in case they do not arrive as quickly as anticipated, the Air Force seeks to update its older aircraft.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/IF10999.pdf

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 10:31
by weasel1962
Might as well state the USAF is going to retire the F-22, the F-35A, and every other aircraft in inventory. Last I heard every aircraft will eventually be retired.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 11:42
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:Might as well state the USAF is going to retire the F-22, the F-35A, and every other aircraft in inventory. Last I heard every aircraft will eventually be retired.




Fact is the USAF has a plan to retire the F-15C soon.....(Yet, feel free to believe what you like?) :shock:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 13:39
by aussiebloke
Corsair1963 wrote:

Fact is the USAF has a plan to retire the F-15C soon.....(Yet, feel free to believe what you like?) :shock:


It doesn't sound like it is going to happen anytime soon. Otherwise why would the USAF contemplate spending scarce funds on this aircraft?

"In general, the fighter force structure must include a mix of legacy aircraft to maintain required capacity. The Air Force will
continue to invest in sustainment and modernization of the F-22 (enhancing lethality, survivability and connectivity), the F-15C/E (enhancing radar, avionics processing, and select defensive systems), the F-16 (improving the radar, avionics processing capability, and defensive systems), and the A-10 fleet (maintaining sustainable combat-coded A-l 0 aircraft and
ensuring the overall health and continued viability of the platform) until a time when recapitalization of select legacy aircraft
is directed."
From the Annual Aviation Inventory and Funding Plan Fiscal Years (FY) 2019-2048 - published in March 2018.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1062648.pdf

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 14:31
by mixelflick
Plans are one thing. Actualizing those plans is quite another.

What will keep the F-15C going is that it has numerous and substantial performance advantages vs. the F-16. And most important of all: It enjoys support from Congressmen. The Fake Indian Elizabeth Warren for example isn't going to be having the USAF pulling Eagles out of the 104th fighter wing at Barnes airport in Westfield, MA (responsible for air defense of the entire Northeast).

Not going to happen anytime soon...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 16:11
by element1loop
mixelflick wrote:Plans are one thing. Actualizing those plans is quite another. What will keep the F-15C going is that it has numerous and substantial performance advantages vs. the F-16. And most important of all: It enjoys support from Congressmen. Not going to happen anytime soon...


How many new USAF F-35A will be coming off the line each year? They have to retire stuff to get people and resources for those to become operational. Old stuff has to go (and it is old). F-22A and F-35A are both much more capable in A2A, at this point, and getting better fast, and F-15C is back-of-the-bus in comparison from here. So why would the F-15C not be on the way out, if the F-15E is staying on for as much as 15 more years?

An F-15C squadron scheduled to get F-35As ... they'd be vigorously protesting that not one bit.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 17:48
by mixelflick
element1loop wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Plans are one thing. Actualizing those plans is quite another. What will keep the F-15C going is that it has numerous and substantial performance advantages vs. the F-16. And most important of all: It enjoys support from Congressmen. Not going to happen anytime soon...


How many new USAF F-35A will be coming off the line each year? They have to retire stuff to get people and resources for those to become operational. Old stuff has to go (and it is old). F-22A and F-35A are both much more capable in A2A, at this point, and getting better fast, and F-15C is back-of-the-bus in comparison from here. So why would the F-15C not be on the way out, if the F-15E is staying on for as much as 15 more years?

An F-15C squadron scheduled to get F-35As ... they'd be vigorously protesting that not one bit.


Didn't say the squadron mates would be protesting. They'd probably be celebrating. But you have to consider Congress's argument: "It's the single most dominant air to air machine ever fielded". "My constituents have been very clear - keep the F-15's and save our jobs". Blah Blah Blah. You and others here make rational points about the F-35 being so much better at well, everything. And I wholeheartedly agree. But Congress and those higher up in the military sometimes do irrational things. Like oh, I dunno... cutting the Raptor at 187 airframes?

If they hadn't done that, we wouldn't be having this conversation...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 02 Jan 2019, 21:17
by wrightwing
Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Might as well state the USAF is going to retire the F-22, the F-35A, and every other aircraft in inventory. Last I heard every aircraft will eventually be retired.




Fact is the USAF has a plan to retire the F-15C soon.....(Yet, feel free to believe what you like?) :shock:

Soon isn't 2019, though. Think 2030.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 00:33
by Corsair1963
wrightwing wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Might as well state the USAF is going to retire the F-22, the F-35A, and every other aircraft in inventory. Last I heard every aircraft will eventually be retired.




Fact is the USAF has a plan to retire the F-15C soon.....(Yet, feel free to believe what you like?) :shock:

Soon isn't 2019, though. Think 2030.



Never said tomorrow but I doubt it will start by 2030 more like end...Of course all depends on funding over the next 5-10 years.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 00:51
by Corsair1963
aussiebloke wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:

Fact is the USAF has a plan to retire the F-15C soon.....(Yet, feel free to believe what you like?) :shock:


It doesn't sound like it is going to happen anytime soon. Otherwise why would the USAF contemplate spending scarce funds on this aircraft?

"In general, the fighter force structure must include a mix of legacy aircraft to maintain required capacity. The Air Force will
continue to invest in sustainment and modernization of the F-22 (enhancing lethality, survivability and connectivity), the F-15C/E (enhancing radar, avionics processing, and select defensive systems), the F-16 (improving the radar, avionics processing capability, and defensive systems), and the A-10 fleet (maintaining sustainable combat-coded A-l 0 aircraft and
ensuring the overall health and continued viability of the platform) until a time when recapitalization of select legacy aircraft
is directed."
From the Annual Aviation Inventory and Funding Plan Fiscal Years (FY) 2019-2048 - published in March 2018.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1062648.pdf



QUOTE:

By JAMES BOLINGER | STARS AND STRIPES
Published: June 8, 2018


The Air Force canceled expensive upgrades to 196 F-15C fighters last year as it hammered out a plan to retire the jets, according to a recently declassified report.

The fighters were supposed to get new electronic warfare equipment known as the Eagle Passive/Active Warning and Survivability System, said the Department of Defense Inspector General report declassified on May 21.
The Air Force had planned to spend $3.4 billion installing the gear on all F-15Cs and 217 F-15Es, giving them “electronic warfare capabilities to detect and identify air and ground threats, employ counter-measures, and jam enemy radar signals,” the report said.

However, in February 2017 the service ordered a 47 percent cut to the number of jets getting the new equipment, which replaces a dated 1970s electronic warfare package and is designed to increase the F-15C’s survivability in a contested environment.

The IG report outlined a timeline for retiring the jets, but many details were redacted......

https://www.stripes.com/news/air-force- ... s-1.531719

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 01:17
by weasel1962
So what's the timeline stated by IG?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 01:55
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:So what's the timeline stated by IG?



The plan is in place but it hasn't been made public yet....

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 02:40
by weasel1962
So you know the plan and the date?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 03:00
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:So you know the plan and the date?



I do not have the exact time table at the moment. Just that the USAF has a plan to retire the F-15C early. Which, I have already provided sources for.......

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 03:20
by weasel1962
Just wanted to be clear, you don't have access to the IG report?

Remind me which of your sources have stated 2030 as the completion for F-15C retirement again? Pardon my eye sight but I don't seem to read it.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 03:33
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:Just wanted to be clear, you don't have access to the IG report?

Remind me which of your sources have stated 2030 as the completion for F-15C retirement again? Pardon my eye sight but I don't seem to read it.



Your good at being smart but that's about all....Nonetheless, another member suggested the F-15C would retire like 2030. I replied that would "likely" be closer to the end not the beginning of it's retirement. Yet, a number of public sources some have suggested the F-15C will retire mid 2020's. Either way I am sure the specific plan will be released by the USAF very soon...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 03:35
by weasel1962
Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Just wanted to be clear, you don't have access to the IG report?

Remind me which of your sources have stated 2030 as the completion for F-15C retirement again? Pardon my eye sight but I don't seem to read it.



Your good at being smart but that's about all....Nonetheless, another member suggested the F-15C would retire like 2030. I replied that would "likely" be closer to the end not the beginning of it's retirement. Yet, a number of public sources some have suggested the F-15C will retire mid 2020's. Either way I am sure the specific plan will be released by the USAF very soon...


So the 2030 has no source other than what you or "other member" said. Which other member btw? I don't seem to read it also.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 03:54
by Corsair1963
weasel1962 wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Just wanted to be clear, you don't have access to the IG report?

Remind me which of your sources have stated 2030 as the completion for F-15C retirement again? Pardon my eye sight but I don't seem to read it.


Your good at being smart but that's about all....Nonetheless, another member suggested the F-15C would retire like 2030. I replied that would "likely" be closer to the end not the beginning of it's retirement. Yet, a number of public sources some have suggested the F-15C will retire mid 2020's. Either way I am sure the specific plan will be released by the USAF very soon...


So the 2030 has no source other than what you or "other member" said. Which other member btw? I don't seem to read it also.


We've posted several sources that state the USAF is going to retire the F-15C early. Yet, we have acknowledge we don't have specific dates at this time. As the original IG Report from the USAF was redacted. This while some members including myself went on speculate when that retirement will likely occur. (early, mid, or late 2020's)

If, you have contrary information. Then we are all ears........... :wink:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 05:26
by Corsair1963
No more Japanese built F-35's???


QUOTE: Defence officials also pointed out that Japan will stop using a final assembly and check-out (FACO) facility for the country’s F-35As from FY 2019 and start buying completed F-35As and F-35Bs to reduce procurement costs.


https://www.janes.com/article/85299/jap ... from_rss=1

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 06:20
by weasel1962
:: Removed by the janitorial staff ::

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 07:08
by Corsair1963
QUOTE:

October 9, 2018

Defense’s 30-Year Aircraft Plan Reveals New Details

Each year, the Department of Defense issues a 30-year aviation plan, intended to chart the direction of the aviation enterprise. This plan is typically relatively short on specifics, in part because 30 years is rather far to foresee in detail, particularly as that goes 25 years beyond official defense budget projections.

By contrast, the most recent 30-year aviation plan released in April 2018 is full of details on specific programs, including cancellations, life extensions, and new starts. Some are explicit; others, between the lines. Some of the highlights follow.

Air Force
The Air Force previously announced plans to retire the air-superiority F-15C Eagle. But this plan declares an intention to refresh and extends the life of the F-15E Strike Eagles, the attack variant.

The Air Force has also decided to extend the life of its F-16 Fighting Falcon fleet. What do the F-15E and the F-16 have in common? They are both slated to be replaced by the F-35 Lightning II. This new plan may show the Air Force hedging in case F-35s do not arrive as fast as hoped and thus has to extend existing airframes to fill the gap. The target quantity of F-35s has not changed; the Air Force still expects to buy 1,763. But in case they do not arrive as quickly as anticipated, the Air Force seeks to update its older aircraft.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/IF10999.pdf[/quote]

QUOTE:

(U) Retirement of F-15C Aircraft

(S) In February 2017, the DCS AF/A5/8 issued the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX to retire the F-15C aircraft beginning in XXXX and fully retire the aircraft by the end of XXXX. However, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX The XXXXXXXXXXX communicated the Air Force’s long-term strategic intention to build and sustain a capable, right-sized Air Force and directed program resource allocation. The DCS AF/A5/8 planned to use F-15C EPAWSS procurement funds to develop a higher priority Air Superiority program.


page 9

https://media.defense.gov/2018/May/25/2 ... 18-121.PDF

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 07:43
by SpudmanWP
Corsair1963 wrote:No more Japanese built F-35's???


QUOTE: Defence officials also pointed out that Japan will stop using a final assembly and check-out (FACO) facility for the country’s F-35As from FY 2019 and start buying completed F-35As and F-35Bs to reduce procurement costs.


https://www.janes.com/article/85299/jap ... from_rss=1


They should follow Italy's lead and change their FACO into a HVY Maint Depot for the Asian theater.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 07:54
by Corsair1963
SpudmanWP wrote:
They should follow Italy's lead and change their FACO into a HVY Maint Depot for the Asian theater.



Didn't Australia already win such a contract for the Asian Region???

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 03 Jan 2019, 16:21
by steve2267
Mudhens may be the preferred (or only) delivery vehicle for the 5000lb GBU-28.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 14:35
by spazsinbad
Japan Details 2019-23 Defense Plan Costs
14 Jan 2019 Bradley Perrett

"...Japan is planning to buy 45 Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightnings in the five fiscal years, which will begin on April 1, 2019. Among them, 18 are supposed to be F-35Bs and the other 27 F-35As. In an evident misprint, the ministry estimates the average cost of 45 “F-35A” aircraft at ¥11.6 billion. It presumably means the average price for fighters of both versions...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/japan-d ... plan-costs

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 16 Jan 2019, 06:37
by Corsair1963
Two USAF F-15's were forced to make emergency landings at Kadena Air Base on Okinawa on Jan 15th............ :shock:

http://alert5.com/2019/01/16/two-usaf-f ... me-runway/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 00:15
by spazsinbad
Here Come Japan’s Aircraft Carriers
01 Feb 2019 Robert Farley

"The modification of the Izumos will upend nearly seven decades of defense thinking in Japan, and across East Asia.

...The combination of the Izumos with the F-35B Lightning II stealth [strike? whynot sayit? CHINA?] fighter and the MV-22 Osprey transport may herald Japan’s return to serious naval competition in East Asia, with reverberations in South Korea, China, and the United States. It may also fundamentally change the identity and culture of the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) and the rest of the Japanese armed forces....

...The opening two decades of the post-Cold War era saw the rapid proliferation of flat-decked aircraft-carrying warships with amphibious capabilities. A great number of navies began to see value in flat-decked ships that could conduct sea control missions, could show the flag around the world, and could offer a means for making an independent contribution to multilateral military and humanitarian operations. The large amphibious warships of the U.S. Navy made a big impact in Southeast Asia in the wake of the 2004 tsunami. [ https://science.howstuffworks.com/natur ... unami5.htm ] Tokyo was watching, as were Seoul and Beijing. That all three major powers in Northeast Asia began to invest in amphibs is not surprising, but Japan’s particular path seemed odd.... [NOT the full article which is behind a paywall]

Source: https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/here-co ... -carriers/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 15:13
by mixelflick
(U) Retirement of F-15C Aircraft

(S) In February 2017, the DCS AF/A5/8 issued the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX to retire the F-15C aircraft beginning in XXXX and fully retire the aircraft by the end of XXXX. However, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX The XXXXXXXXXXX communicated the Air Force’s long-term strategic intention to build and sustain a capable, right-sized Air Force and directed program resource allocation. The DCS AF/A5/8 planned to use F-15C EPAWSS procurement funds to develop a higher priority Air Superiority program.

So this means.... the F-15C stays?

Not entirely clear, with so much redacted..

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 19:44
by wrightwing
steve2267 wrote:Mudhens may be the preferred (or only) delivery vehicle for the 5000lb GBU-28.

The F-35's inner hard points are rated for 5000lb+.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 21:11
by steve2267
wrightwing wrote:
steve2267 wrote:Mudhens may be the preferred (or only) delivery vehicle for the 5000lb GBU-28.

The F-35's inner hard points are rated for 5000lb+.


Last time I saw the graphic showing all the various weapons to be qualified for the Panther... I do not recall seeing GBU-28's listed?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 21:46
by wrightwing
steve2267 wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
steve2267 wrote:Mudhens may be the preferred (or only) delivery vehicle for the 5000lb GBU-28.

The F-35's inner hard points are rated for 5000lb+.


Last time I saw the graphic showing all the various weapons to be qualified for the Panther... I do not recall seeing GBU-28's listed?

There are a lot of weapons not currently integrated, but in Blocks 4/5/6/7.... I think we'll see all sorts of new weapons intergrated.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Feb 2019, 22:09
by SpudmanWP
Once UAI comes online, a lot of weapons will be integrated on an as-needed basis and be completely separate from Block upgrades.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 12 Feb 2019, 15:24
by doge
JASDF F-35A flying in the blizzard. ( 8)Cool and cold :shock: )

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 15 Feb 2019, 01:54
by spazsinbad
U.S., Japanese commanders observe F-35B operations aboard USS Wasp
05 Feb 2019 MC2 Sarah Myers, Amphibious Squadron 11

"EAST CHINA SEA - The commanders of U.S. 7th Fleet and the Japan's Self-Defense Fleet visited the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1), Feb. 5, to observe the Wasp Amphibious Ready Group (ARG) and 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) operations at sea. U.S. Navy Vice Adm. Phil Sawyer and Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) Vice Adm. Kazuki Yamashita were joined by other senior JMSDF officers to showcase Wasp ARG’s amphibious capabilities, including operations by 31st MEU F-35B Lightning II aircraft....

...While aboard Sawyer and Yamashita met with Wasp ARG leaders, received briefs about amphibious capabilities and observed flight operations by 31st MEU F-35B Lightning II aircraft...."

Photo: "PHILIPPINE SEA (Feb. 2, 2019) An F-35B Lightning II aircraft attached to the F-35B detachment of the "Flying Tigers" of Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron (VMM) 262 (Reinforced) prepares to land behind another F-35B Lighting II aircraft on the flight deck on the flight deck of the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp (LHD 1) during flight operations. Wasp, flagship of the Wasp Amphibious Ready Group, with embarked 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, is operating in the Indo-Pacific region to enhance interoperability with partners and serve as a ready-response force for any type of contingency. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Sarah Myers)" https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7827/469 ... 8c89_b.jpg (0.2Mb)


Source: https://www.cpf.navy.mil/news.aspx/110658

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 12:04
by Gamera
Tuesday, 5 March 2019:
F-35A.
99-8712.
Rinji F-35A Hikoutai, JASDF, based at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture.

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2019 ... tohoku-l02
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2019 ... 2.view-000

15:35, landed, at Misawa AB.
Departed from Komaki AB, Aichi Prefecture.

12th of 12 F-35A for current fiscal year.
JASDF will soon rename "Rinji F-35A Hikoutai" [Temporary F-35A Squadron] to "302nd Hikoutai" [302nd Squadron].

Previous schedule, fiscal year 2019, six F-35A would allocate Misawa AB.
Two of the six assembled ahead schedule.

2018 December, first of the two allocated Misawa AB.
#712 is second of the two.

Current schedule, by fiscal year 2020, total 22 F-35A would allocate Misawa AB, as two squadrons.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 15:32
by mixelflick
Amazing to see the impact Japanese F-35's will have in the region.

Before its arrival, China's air force could have been considered vastly superior, especially in numbers. It's J-10's, J-11's and now SU-35's would be more than a match for Japanese F-15's and F-2's. But with the F-35, China has to deal with an aircraft that can quite handily dispatch with their various Flanker derivatives and J-10's.

Even the J-20 is at risk, given the F-35's more mature state and I dare say much better WVR/BVR capabilities. Add in South Korea''s F-35's, Singapore's, Australia's etc and you begin to appreciate how this one little airframe is indeed worthy of the name, "game changer"...

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 15:38
by vilters
The rather large fuel tank of the F-35 gives it an outstanding range advantage around that region.

Its range and superior sensors and fusion systems (and room for expansion and improvement) will make this a great Japanese asset for many years to come.

(and this comes from a very dedicated F-16 fan)

Why Japan did not push for the F-16 XL version (with even more fuel) will stay an open question forever.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 06 Mar 2019, 17:36
by ricnunes
vilters wrote:
Why Japan did not push for the F-16 XL version (with even more fuel) will stay an open question forever.


I would say that the Japanese already done something similar along those lines with the Mitsubishi F-2 which is basically a bigger F-16 with more internal fuel (and certainly more range).

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 07 Mar 2019, 15:05
by mixelflick
vilters wrote:The rather large fuel tank of the F-35 gives it an outstanding range advantage around that region.

Its range and superior sensors and fusion systems (and room for expansion and improvement) will make this a great Japanese asset for many years to come.

(and this comes from a very dedicated F-16 fan)

Why Japan did not push for the F-16 XL version (with even more fuel) will stay an open question forever.


On the internal fuel, I could only find "increased by 82%". So.... circa 14,000lbs? (Math isn't a strong point). That would be around what an F-15C carries, but with a single engine. Beautiful aircraft, and futuristic looking - even today IMO.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 23:07
by spazsinbad
Aircraft Carrier Ibuki (Kûbo Ibuki) theatrical trailer - Setsurô Wakamatsu-directed movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUF0HwltZdI


Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 23:22
by ricnunes
spazsinbad wrote:Aircraft Carrier Ibuki (Kûbo Ibuki) theatrical trailer - Setsurô Wakamatsu-directed movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUF0HwltZdI




Disclaimer:

"Any similarity to actual events or persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. "

:mrgreen:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 Mar 2019, 04:47
by Gamera
Tuesday, 26 March 2019:
F-35A x 12.
302nd Hikoutai, JASDF, based at Misawa AB, Aomori Prefecture.

At Hyakuri AB, Ibaraki Prefecture, 302nd Hikoutai discontinued F-4.

At Misawa AB, Rinji F-35A Hikoutai [temporary F-35A squadron] became 302nd Hikoutai.
80 members.
Commander was Lieutenant Colonel Nakano Yoshihito (41).
12 F-35A would increase to 20.

MOD announced F-2 squadrons will move from Misawa AB to Hyakuri AB, before or by 2020 March.
During fiscal year 2020, 301st Hikoutai would move from Hyakuri AB to Misawa AB, and become new F-35 squadron.

Misawa AB would have two squadrons and 40 F-35.

E-2D also arrived in Japan, and after check, will allocate Misawa AB soon.
E-2D will train at Misawa AB, and replace E-2C at Naha AB, Okinawa Prefecture.

Future, JASDF E-2D and JMSDF Maya Class AEGIS destroyer will equip CEC system that shares enemy cruise missile and fighter detect data.

https://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2019032601322&g=soc

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2019, 05:33
by spazsinbad
Japan reassures US on F-35 purchase despite crash [someone is beating up a storm over accident conjecture here]
21 Apr 2019 RIEKO MIKI

"WASHINGTON -- The recent crash of an F-35A stealth fighter jet will not stop Tokyo's plans to buy more of the aircraft, which is crucial to strengthening defense capabilities and maintaining a strong relationship with its ally, the U.S., Japan's defense minister said after meeting his American counterpart.

"At this point, we have no specific information that would lead to a change in procurement plans," Japanese Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya told reporters after meeting Friday with acting U.S. Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan at the Pentagon. Iwaya said he and Shanahan discussed Japan's plans for deploying American defense equipment, including F-35 purchases....

...Japan has received 13 F-35As so far, of which four were built in the U.S. and the rest assembled in Japan from American components. The government plans to procure six more this fiscal year. Going forward, Tokyo will stick to importing finished jets, as it is more cost-effective.

Though Japan's Self-Defense Forces have yet to put F-35s into active service, Tokyo hopes that adding U.S.-made planes to the fleet will help it serve as a greater deterrent, especially given the jet's capability to be equipped with advanced interceptor missiles that could potentially destroy ballistic missiles in midair.

But the April 9 crash during a training mission could derail these plans. Little is known about the crash as both the U.S. and Japan scour the Pacific off the northeast coast of Japan to look for wreckage of the jet. The pilot, who is still missing, had called for the mission to end before his plane went down. Should the incident turn out to have been caused by a defect in the plane, Tokyo could face calls to stop buying them....

...The U.S. has not disclosed details of the F-35's state-of-the-art technology to other countries, and there are worries that China or Russia could get their hands on the wreckage and unlock some of its secrets, including the jet's capability to shoot down ballistic missiles. This is among the reasons why Washington is sending a deep-sea search vessel to the site of the incident to help find the wreckage.

If the cause of the crash turns out to involve sensitive information about the plane, the U.S. could be reluctant to share it with even its close ally Japan. [somebody is drawing a LONG BOW HERE - evidence would be nice - aircraft accident]

The medium-term defense program approved by the Japanese government in late 2018 calls for a record 27 trillion yen ($205 billion) in spending over the next five years, in an effort to bolster Japan's defenses as well as revitalize its defense industry. The F-35 is central to these plans, and a disruption to procurement would throw a wrench in the works." <sigh>

Source: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Japan- ... ite-crash2

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Apr 2019, 05:46
by Corsair1963
Honestly, I doubt Japan will stop at just buying 147 F-35's. My guess is that number could go past 200. When all is said and done....

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2019, 00:58
by zerion
Japan Mulls Fighter Consolidation As LM Offers F-35 Code

http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/jap ... -f-35-code

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2019, 01:18
by spazsinbad
zerion wrote:Japan Mulls Fighter Consolidation As LM Offers F-35 Code
http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/jap ... -f-35-code

NO SUBSCRIPT SO ONLY THIS available at moment....
Japan Mulls Fighter Consolidation As LM Offers F-35 Code
22 Apr 2019 Bradley Perrett

"BEIJING—Japanese industry is discussing the creation of a joint company for fighter development while the U.S. is reportedly offering to share source code from the F-35 for Tokyo’s next combat [aircraft project?]…" [YEAH RIGHT - as IF]

Source: https://aviationweek.com/awindefense/ja ... -f-35-code

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2019, 01:41
by Corsair1963
spazsinbad wrote:
zerion wrote:Japan Mulls Fighter Consolidation As LM Offers F-35 Code
http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/jap ... -f-35-code

NO SUBSCRIPT SO ONLY THIS available at moment....
Japan Mulls Fighter Consolidation As LM Offers F-35 Code
22 Apr 2019 Bradley Perrett

"BEIJING—Japanese industry is discussing the creation of a joint company for fighter development while the U.S. is reportedly offering to share source code from the F-35 for Tokyo’s next combat [aircraft project?]…" [YEAH RIGHT - as IF]

Source: https://aviationweek.com/awindefense/ja ... -f-35-code


Creating a Joint US/Japanese Company for Fighter Development???

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2019, 01:53
by spazsinbad
Corsair1963 wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:
zerion wrote:Japan Mulls Fighter Consolidation As LM Offers F-35 Code
http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/jap ... -f-35-code

NO SUBSCRIPT SO ONLY THIS available at moment....
Japan Mulls Fighter Consolidation As LM Offers F-35 Code
22 Apr 2019 Bradley Perrett
"BEIJING—Japanese industry is discussing the creation of a joint company for fighter development while the U.S. is reportedly offering to share source code from the F-35 for Tokyo’s next combat [aircraft project?]…" [YEAH RIGHT - as IF]
Source: https://aviationweek.com/awindefense/ja ... -f-35-code

Creating a Joint US/Japanese Company for Fighter Development???

Have not LM already offered to make a HYBRID F-35/F-22 or somesuch similar for/with JAPAN - but Japan rejected it?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 23 Apr 2019, 02:26
by Corsair1963
spazsinbad wrote:
Have not LM already offered to make a HYBRID F-35/F-22 or somesuch similar for/with JAPAN - but Japan rejected it?


Japan did in fact reject the proposed Hybrid F-22/F-35. My guess is this is a future 6th Generation Fighter.....

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 25 Apr 2019, 01:28
by zerion

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 25 Apr 2019, 06:42
by Corsair1963
zerion wrote:Looks like The Drive picked it up.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... sal-report



Japan is just kicking the ball around and floating ideas......(thinking out loud)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 27 May 2019, 16:32
by pron
Trump announces Japan’s purchase of 105 new F-35 stealth aircraft.
Mr Trump, in Tokyo for a state visit, said Japan “has just announced its intent to purchase 105 brand new F-35 stealth aircraft… This purchase would give Japan the largest F-35 fleet of any US ally”.
https://defence-blog.com/news/trump-ann ... craft.html

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 May 2019, 02:37
by Corsair1963
pron wrote:Trump announces Japan’s purchase of 105 new F-35 stealth aircraft.
Mr Trump, in Tokyo for a state visit, said Japan “has just announced its intent to purchase 105 brand new F-35 stealth aircraft… This purchase would give Japan the largest F-35 fleet of any US ally”.
https://defence-blog.com/news/trump-ann ... craft.html




This was announced sometime ago. Which, combined with the earlier order of 42 F-35's. Means Japan has committed to ~ 147 F-35's. (A's and B's)

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 29 Jul 2019, 19:48
by zerion
Long article best read there.

Japan wants to be an official F-35 partner. The Pentagon plans to say no
By: Aaron Mehta , Valerie Insinna , and Mike Yeo   3 hours ago

WASHINGTON and MELBOURNE, Australia — Japan has formally expressed interest in joining the F-35 program as a full partner, but the Pentagon plans to shoot down that request, Defense News has learned.

Sources say Japan’s request to join the partnership creates major political headaches for the Pentagon, with fears it would cause new tensions among the international production base for the joint strike fighter and open the door for other customer nations to demand a greater role in future capability development.

In a June 18 letter from Japan’s Ministry of Defense to Pentagon acquisition head Ellen Lord, obtained by Defense News, Atsuo Suzuki, director general for the Bureau of Defense Buildup Planning, formally requests information on how Japan could move from being a customer of the F-35 to a full-fledged member of the industrial base consortium.

“I believe becoming a partner country in F-35 program is an option,” the letter reads. “I would like to have your thoughts on whether or not Japan has a possibility to be a partner country in the first place. Also, I would like you to provide the Ministry of Defense with detailed information about the responsibilities and rights of a partner country, as well as cost sharing and conditions such as the approval process and the required period.”

“We would like to make a final decision whether we could proceed to become a partner country by thoroughly examining the rights and obligations associated with becoming a partner country based on the terms and conditions you would provide,” the letter concludes.

Lord, the Pentagon acquisition head, is scheduled to meet with Japanese officials this week, and the question of membership is expected to come up. But Tokyo won’t like the answer.

Although Lord’s office will be responsible for carrying the final message to Japan, the F-35 Joint Program Office told Defense News that the partnership remains limited to the initial wave of F-35 investors.

“The F-35 cooperative Partnership closed on 15 July 2002,” stated Brandi Schiff, a spokesperson for the F-35 JPO...

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia ... to-say-no/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Jul 2019, 04:26
by marauder2048
An entire piece that misses a major point: the partners make money off of F-35 sales to non-partner nations
e.g. Japan which is going to be buying more regardless.

And now that share of the profits is better for each partner with Turkey gone.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2019, 02:19
by spazsinbad
But BUTT how do the defspirallers explain this development: Japan wants to make the DUD F-35 better? :roll: Come on. :doh:

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2019, 02:27
by Corsair1963
Maybe Japan looking to continue production of the F-35 at the Final Assembly and Check Out (FACO) facility in Nagoya??? If, it could secure a share of the program....

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 31 Jul 2019, 12:27
by mixelflick
Whatever they do, Japan needs F-35's fast.

Since they were denied the F-22, their once cutting edge air force is now way behind China's. Their F-15's and F-2's are not exactly slouches, but won't last long vs. China's SU-35's, J-11D's and J-10B's/C's. Much like the USAF, resting on their laurels got them nowhere fast. To be fair, there wasn't much they could do with the F-22 out of the picture. And its doubtful they can afford the F-22/35 hybrid being pitched to them.

The F-35 will restore a qualitative (if not quantitative) advantage. Plus, having that many F-35's on the Korean penninsula will go a long way toward deterrence. They have both Russia and China to contend with (along with N. Korea), and they'll need every one of their F-35A's/B's to contend with them.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 17 Aug 2019, 01:22
by spazsinbad
Japan to purchase 42 F-35B fighter jets from US
17 Aug 2019 NHKworld

"Japan's defense ministry has formally decided to purchase state-of-the-art F-35B stealth fighter jets from the United States.

Completing a selection process that began in March, the defense ministry announced on Friday its decision to buy 42 of Lockheed Martin's F-35B fighter jets at cost of about 130 million dollars for each aircraft.

The ministry said the aircraft has all of the necessary capabilities, including flight performance.

The ministry plans to upgrade the Maritime Defense-Force destroyer Izumo and use it as an aircraft carrier for the F-35B aircraft...."

Source: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20190817_01/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 18 Aug 2019, 22:46
by zerion
Similar story on Naval News
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -aircraft/
But included info on Izumo modifications including images of ship with modifications.

...However a Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) standing nearby joined the conversation and said that, in his opinion, “the F-35B would be owned and flown by the ASDF because the MSDF doesn’t operate fast jets”. Yesterday’s statement from the MoD seems to confirm this early information because it mentions “ASDF requirements”...


Image

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 01:35
by spazsinbad
Page 12 this thread has same graphic - wot I made from: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24808&p=406743&hilit=Izumo#p406743

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 19 Aug 2019, 07:01
by old_rn
A nice Light Fleet Carrier :D

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Aug 2019, 16:19
by zerion
USMC To Fly First F-35B From Japan’s Izumo-Class Aircraft Carriers

U.S. Marine Corps' F-35B STOVL fighters will be the first fixed wing aircraft to fly from Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) Izumo-class "helicopter destroyers", following the conversion of both JS Izumo and JS Kaga into aircraft carriers.

Xavier Vavasseur 21 Aug 2019

According to Japanese newspaper The Asahi Shimbun which revealed the information today, the Japanese government made this request back in March.

It will take about 5 years (from budgeting to deployment) for the F-35B to be fully inducted with the Japan Air Self Defense Force (JASDF). As we reported recently, the “air force” and not the “navy” will be flying the aircraft.
With these factors in mind, the Japanese government made an official request to the USMC. It specifically asked during the meeting “for cooperation and advice on how to operate the fighter on the deck of the modified ships” to which General Neller said he would “help as much as possible”.
In addition, The Asahi Shinbum quoted Japan’s Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya as saying “The Izumo-class aircraft carrier role is to strengthen the air defense in the Pacific Ocean and to ensure the safety of the Self-Defense Force pilots”. Regarding the possibility of the arrival and departure of US military aircraft, “There may be no runway available for the US aircraft in an emergency. I cannot say that the US F35B should never be placed on an [JMSDF] escort vessel.”...

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -carriers/

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Aug 2019, 18:52
by spazsinbad
There is sadly a two thread repeat of this stuff about F-35Bs & Izumo Class ops: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20426&p=425556&hilit=Vavasseur#p425556

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 28 Aug 2019, 11:38
by spazsinbad
Japan's In-Service Fighters
28 Aug 2019 Bradley Perrett

"Planning an enlarged acquisition of Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightnings... the ministry is counting savings of ¥4.9 billion ($46 million per aircraft) from switching to full importation from local final assembly....

...Twenty-seven F-35As, including the last eight from the 2011 plan, and 18 “STOVL fighters” will be bought in the five-year acquisition planning period that began in fiscal 2019. The aircraft will be delivered in fiscal 2023-27, the ministry said. Since only six have been ordered in the current year, maintaining the previous rate of delivery, the pace will have to pick up to almost 10 a year on average in fiscal 2020-23. But the exact number will be determined annually, as is usual in Japanese military procurement....

…[F-35B] aircraft will sometimes go to sea aboard the helicopter carriers Izumo and Kaga, which will be modified for the purpose. But the STOVL fighters will be acquired for the air force, not the navy.…"

Source: https://aviationweek.com/asia-aerospace ... e-fighters

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2019, 10:33
by doge
8)
https://aviationweek.com/awindefense/f- ... chief-says
F-35 Better Than Expected, Ex-Japanese Air Chief Says
Nov 20, 2019Bradley Perrett | Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
TOKYO—The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning is proving to be unexpectedly useful to Japan, particularly in gathering information, according to a former head of the Japanese air force. “F-35 capability is beyond our expectations,” the former chief, Gen. Shigeru Iwasaki, told a conference at the DSEI Japan exhibition here. “For example, the ballistic-missile defense function can be implemented,” he said through an interpreter. That function involves F-35s detecting ...

I searched for Full Text text in the expectation that someone was posting the Full Text somewhere on the web, but there was no Full Text posted anywhere and the Full Text was not found. :doh:
But instead, I found a post on China SNS where something similar was written. 8)
https://m.weibo.cn/status/4441088137523050 (Language is Chinese. I used Google translation.)
Introduction to the use of Japan's F-35A by the former coordinator
At the DSEI 2019 held in Chiba, the former general manager, Iwasaki, confirmed the ability of Japan's F-35A.
Iwasaki said: The F-35A is very useful to Japan, especially in terms of intelligence gathering.
The F-35's ability exceeded our expectations. For example, we can achieve ballistic missile defense capabilities, including the ability to detect long-range ballistic missiles.
It is also said that the F-35A has better endurance than the F-15J, which is one reason for using lightning to collect intelligence.
Many AWACS tasks can be completed by the F-35 in the future.
The chief of staff did not give specific figures on the endurance, and Lockheed Martin did not publish any version of the F-35. But we have reason to believe that its flight time should be longer than the F-15J.
The F-35A has 8.3 tons (18,300 pounds) of internal fuel, while the F-15C is based on 6.1 tons. Boeing fighters can carry more external fuel – but at the expense of increased drag. The F-35A has an empty weight of 13.3 tons, similar to the F-15J, but the sensors and weapons are carried internally to minimize drag.
The F-35A has one engine instead of two, and because of the much higher thrust load, it is assumed that the thrust is generally used when flying. The efficiency drop of an aviation gas turbine at low thrust will be low.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2019, 02:49
by zerion
Leaked photo: General Atomics offers possible Japenese helicopter destroyer conversion into aircraft carrier

Image

https://defence-blog.com/news/leaked-ph ... rrier.html

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2019, 09:45
by krieger22
Yeah that deck park looks like something especially compatible with Catapult 1... there is zero usable deck park space for anything with that design.

With changes that drastic it would be cheaper to build a new carrier instead of "upgrading" an Izumo into this monstrosity.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 30 Nov 2019, 09:56
by spazsinbad
We have been told officially that the IZUMO Class was designed for carrier F-35B use eventually, no need for F-35Cs at all.

BTW the GA Graphic about 'conversion of IZUMO class for F-35C' reminds me of the problems of simultaneous operation of 'arrest & catapult' aboard HMAS Melbourne eons ago now. 'Twas not possible because the landing area foul line impinged over catapult hold back/start area. FLY ONE stbd of said single catapult was tiny. Thank goodness A4Gs were 'tinker toys'.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 07:44
by madrat
I was thinking about improving F-35B takeoff weights. Instead of a catapult, it would be possible perhaps to use electric motor and/or flywheel technology to push rather than pull the aircraft on takeoff. A special built centerline attachment that detaches and brakes before the aircraft leaves the deck. It doesn't have to reach catapult equivalent levels, just boost the safe takeoff weights about 15% with a unit cost under $25,000.00 would be within reason.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 11:03
by hythelday
madrat wrote:I was thinking about improving F-35B takeoff weights. Instead of a catapult, it would be possible perhaps to use electric motor and/or flywheel technology to push rather than pull the aircraft on takeoff. A special built centerline attachment that detaches and brakes before the aircraft leaves the deck. It doesn't have to reach catapult equivalent levels, just boost the safe takeoff weights about 15% with a unit cost under $25,000.00 would be within reason.


I don't think inventing an entirely new assisted take-off technology for two ships "with a unit cost under $25,000.00" would be within reason anywhere but Soviet-style sharaga prisons where aerospace engineers were invited to work for the benefit of the state.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 12:08
by zero-one
Quick question,
Can the Queen Elizabeth class launch heavier B models due to the Ski jump?
Is it worth the investment or is it much more complex than it looks?
figured it should be easy for Marine Carriers to adopt it. But I'm sure they and the Japanese have a perfectly reasonable reason as to why it wasn't considered

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 12:54
by spazsinbad
zero-one wrote:Quick question, Can the Queen Elizabeth class launch heavier B models due to the Ski jump?
Is it worth the investment or is it much more complex than it looks? figured it should be easy for Marine Carriers to adopt it. But I'm sure they and the Japanese have a perfectly reasonable reason as to why it wasn't considered

QUICK ANSWER: has been provided a few times and YES. The CVFs are designed to be able to STO a UK defined Max All Up Weight (load specified) using available deck and ski jump (WOD & temp not specified). USMC comfortable with theirs.
"...maximum weapon payload of 6 Paveway IV, 2 AIM-120C AMRAAM, 2 AIM-132 ASRAAM and a missionised 25mm gun pod...." http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/f35join ... ighter.cfm (no longer available?)

LONG post with details: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=53673&p=382315&hilit=f35jointstrikefighter#p382315

Why USMC no ski jump? QUICK ANSWER has been provided several times here but only the quick answer - don't want it because space taken by a ski jump is needed for other activities. LHAs are for mixed USMC ops - CVFs less mixed and designed for the F-35B - that is why CVF so good for F-35B ops & SRVLS - CVF designed for the F-35B as known at the time.

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 14:36
by zero-one
Thanks, I think there may be something wrong with my profile as I cannot use the custom search function on this site.
I tried using other machines and logging out, but I nothing comes up. Anybody else have this issue?

Re: JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 02:25
by Corsair1963
Japan reverses course on F-35, will continue assembly at home

Tokyo ends plan to import finished jets from US as Mitsubishi Heavy cuts costs


TOKYO -- Japan intends to continue assembling F-35 stealth fighters domestically, reversing plans to import the finished aircraft from the U.S., Nikkei has learned.

Since Tokyo adopted the F-35A fighter jet in fiscal 2011 under the U.S. Foreign Military Sales program, Japan's Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has assembled and conducted final checks on aircraft sold to the country by Lockheed Martin.

But the costly process prompted a decision by Tokyo to import finished F-35s starting with new contracts made in fiscal 2019, which began in April. Japan's cabinet approved plans at the end of 2018 to buy another 105 F-35s, including 42 F-35Bs, which are capable of short takeoffs and vertical landings.

However, Tokyo looks to reverse that decision after Mitsubishi Heavy revamped its assembly process to reduce costs.

Finishing one F-35 in Japan is now expected to cost 9.37 billion yen ($86.3 million), compared with 9.42 billion yen to ship the plane from the U.S., according to Japan's Defense Ministry. The cabinet is expected to approve the domestic production plan soon.

The F-35 represents a key model for Japan's Air Self-Defense Force. Big orders could alleviate U.S. President Donald Trump's concerns over bilateral trade imbalances, even if the final assembly is done in Japan. In May, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe showed Trump around the Kaga, a Maritime Self-Defense Force vessel slated to serve as the carrier for F-35Bs.

Both governments are agreed on the production plan, sources familiar with the matter said.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Aerosp ... _9-5wHO0B8