Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

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XanderCrews

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Unread post15 Feb 2018, 17:55

steve2267 wrote:
loke wrote:
The government must choose the successor to the antiquated Belgian F-16s. The selection panel will not be obliged to simply choose between the two offers. The point was stressed by the MR deputy, Richard Miller, on Bel RTL today.

Mr Miller said, “If either of the two do not meet the criteria for the best value for money, we could still consider other offers such as the Rafale (by the French aircraft manufacturer Dassault), or other aircraft manufacturers such as the Swedish Saab (the Gripen range of fighter aircraft).” He added, “We are not simply obliged to choose between the F-35 and European Eurofighter.”


http://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/10 ... cceed-f-16

MR Deputy, what is that ?


Phutt the whuck?

Belgium is, of course, free to do whatever they wish... but what is the point of a competition?



Belgians are weird dude. I mean that.

Is the guy is saying they should evaluate the two options they've necked down from, while not ruling out others theyve ruled out already?
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marsavian

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Unread post15 Feb 2018, 18:31

This is political cover for eventually choosing Rafale due to all the offsets they are promising. As Dassault did not formally enter the competition it can't win it so ignore the competition conclusion while still having it to be legal and nominally above board. The Belgium and German upgrades are going to be as political as the Canadian one it seems. If the best fighter is chosen, F-35, it will have to hurdle over all these political shenanigans. A tall order when these three countries are not taking their own defense seriously sheltering as they are under that cozy US NATO umbrella !
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Unread post15 Feb 2018, 18:48

Damn, those bids are thick...

Image

Here is the overall criteria. IMHO the F-35 easily takes that top 2 which covers 54%.

Image
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Unread post15 Feb 2018, 20:52

marsavian wrote:This is political cover for eventually choosing Rafale due to all the offsets they are promising. As Dassault did not formally enter the competition it can't win it so ignore the competition conclusion while still having it to be legal and nominally above board



That sounds intensely corrupt
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marsavian

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Unread post15 Feb 2018, 21:31

Hehe, welcome to the EU where anything goes as long as you can keep a straight face saying it ;).
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Unread post15 Feb 2018, 22:17

XanderCrews wrote:
marsavian wrote:This is political cover for eventually choosing Rafale due to all the offsets they are promising. As Dassault did not formally enter the competition it can't win it so ignore the competition conclusion while still having it to be legal and nominally above board


That sounds intensely corrupt

Not really. This is a "Request for Government Proposal" after all.

From the RfGP :
RfGP wrote:This RfGP aims to provide the government agencies with information of a sufficient quality so
that they can reciprocate in kind.


If it's politically wise to divert from the conclusion is another thing.
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Unread post16 Feb 2018, 21:18

UK submits bid for Belgium fighter competition, pitting Typhoon against F-35
16 Feb 2018 Andrew Chuter

"...The U.S. State Department said last month it had approved a possible foreign military sale of 34 Lockheed Martin F-35 jets to the Belgians in a deal which could be worth up to $6.5 billion. Earlier this month the U.S. confirmed it had responded to the request for final offers. “The F-35 Joint Program Office invested considerable effort to craft an offer that enables our Belgian allies to acquire the F-35’s unmatched capabilities well within the budget specified by the [Belgian] Strategic Vision for Defense 2030,” said the U.S. government.

Speaking recently to an audience of alliance and industry partners, US Charge d’Affaires, Matthew Lussenhop said a F-35 purchase would pay big dividends for Belgium. “Joining the F-35 program provides access to technology that support all of Belgium’s essential security interests and opens the door to related projects with potential returns well in excess of the initial investment — just like the F-16 program has in the past,” he said.

Lockheed Martin and engine maker Pratt & Whitney both have memoranda of agreement with a number of Belgian companies....

...Despite the efforts by the Europeans to entice the Belgians with attractive strategic and industrial offers Doug Barrie, the senior air analyst at the International Institute of Strategic Studies reckons the F-35 remains the aircraft to beat. “My money is on the F-35, particularly if the Belgians insist on retaining the ability to deploy B-61 freefall nuclear weapons to match the capability they have on the F-16,” said Barrie. “The F-35 is the only aircraft in the competition presently able to do that. Rafale is wired to deploy nuclear free fall weapons but they are French.”"

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/02 ... inst-f-35/
Last edited by spazsinbad on 17 Feb 2018, 02:25, edited 1 time in total.
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rheonomic

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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 00:19

SpudmanWP wrote:Damn, those bids are thick...

Image


They need to update the model to the current configuration...
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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 02:08

They screwed up the date on the article, says 2017.
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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 02:24

element1loop wrote:They screwed up the date on the article, says 2017.

Nope - that is me. The article currently says 'one day ago' and I'm still in 2017 (I do a lot of history of the RANFAA stuff).
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krorvik

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Unread post17 Feb 2018, 11:02

XanderCrews wrote:That sounds intensely corrupt


And would certainly end up in EU courts. In their own and EU capital city. Should be fun.
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Unread post18 Feb 2018, 12:10

krorvik wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:That sounds intensely corrupt


And would certainly end up in EU courts. In their own and EU capital city. Should be fun.


Clearly no. Read RFGP

8. Legal Notice
The issuance of this RfGP is not to be construed in any way as a commitment by the Belgian
Government to conclude an agreement or a contract.
Respondents will not be reimbursed for any cost incurred in supporting the activities leading
to a response to this RfGP. Any and all expenses incurred by the respondents or by any of its
partners in responding to this RfGP are made by their own choice and at their own risk.
No legal liability against the ACCaP office and by extension Belgian Defence and the Belgian
Government, for payment of any sorts, shall arise as a result of activities related to responding
to this RfGP.


Norway did exactly the same thing by leaving the rfi route for KTMS submarines no?
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Unread post18 Feb 2018, 12:12

rheonomic wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Damn, those bids are thick...

Image


They need to update the model to the current configuration...


Happy you did not see the contracts for Leclerc tanks in UAE. Needed a A-320 to transport them. (true story)
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Unread post20 Feb 2018, 13:12

monkeypilot wrote:
rheonomic wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:Damn, those bids are thick...

Image


They need to update the model to the current configuration...


Happy you did not see the contracts for Leclerc tanks in UAE. Needed a A-320 to transport them. (true story)

Or, the bid packages when Canada was picking a fixed wing SAR aircraft... one bidder needed a cargo truck to move all of the bid paperwork. Another rented and loaded up a U-Haul truck. All for an off the shelf aircraft purchase.
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Unread post20 Feb 2018, 18:37

Belgium wants to buy Rafale fighters for naval capability, says French lawmaker

PARIS — Belgium has shown interest in the Rafale fighter jet for maritime use, said Jean-Jacques Bridey, chairman of the French Defence Committee of the lower house National Assembly.

“The Belgians are interested in the Rafale,” he told The Defense Journalists Association. “Why? If they buy the Rafale, it will be the naval Rafale.”

Belgium is interested in the aircraft’s ability to land on the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle, which would boost Belgium’s deployment capacity, Bridey said. “This is a seaborne airbase, after all,” he added.

France has pitched the Rafale in an offer of broad bilateral military cooperation with Belgium, opting out of a competition that has attracted British and American offers of the Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, respectively.

Laurence Mortier, the spokeswoman for Belgium’s defense minister, said she could not confirm the interest in a carrier-based aircraft.

.... More at the Jump
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2018/ ... -lawmaker/
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