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Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 27 Mar 2017, 21:36
by ricnunes
Not to mention that one of the threats that the new/future Belgium fighter is "expected to face" is the S-400 (NATO Name: SA-21 Growler) - See page 229.
There isn't any available fighter aircraft in the market (which will be proposed to Belgium) today or in the near future capable of facing the S-400 outside the F-35 (at least without suffering some "prohibitive loses"). :wink:

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 15:33
by XanderCrews
Dragon029 wrote:Looking at the terminology they're using, the relative weightings and the scenarios, it seems like the F-35 has this one in the bag; there seems to be a big emphasis on information gathering / ISR, the ability to fuse data, search and destroy, work in a joint environment, have good survivability, etc.


Yep. Was only a few pages in and saw the emphasis on ISR and jointNess. Pretty obvious I would think

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2017, 05:41
by neptune
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... on-436354/

Boeing will not compete its SBug to replace Belgium’s fleet of F-16s

Boeing will not compete its F/A-18 Super Hornet to replace Belgium’s fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16s, the company informed the nation's government this week. In a statement, the airframer says it will not participate in a 19 April bidders' conference, nor respond to Brussels' request for proposals for the new fighter. “We regret that after reviewing the request we do not see an opportunity to compete on a truly level playing field with the...F/A-18 Super Hornet,” Boeing says. “This decision allows Boeing to concentrate its efforts and resources on supporting our global customers, securing new orders and investing in technology and systems required to meet the threats of today and tomorrow. Where there is a full and open competition we look forward to bringing the full depth and breadth of Boeing to our offer.”

Belgium’s recapitalization effort is expected to replace its 59 F-16A/Bs with 34 new fighters, with a budget of up to €3.6 billion ($4 billion), FlightGlobal has previously reported. Boeing’s American rival, Lockheed Martin, remains in the competition with its F-35. Other candidates include the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen E. Over the past year, Boeing has chalked up a number of coups for its tactical fighter business, from a Canadian Super Hornet purchase to a renewed interest in the aircraft from US President Donald Trump, as well as orders from Kuwait and Qatar. However, interest from Europe appears to be waning. After losing Denmark’s fighter competition in 2016 to the F-35A, Boeing issued a legal challenge against the Danish defense ministry arguing that the government executed a “flawed” evaluation process. On 15 September 2016, Boeing submitted a request for insight seeking documents and information on the fighter decision. "Since then, the ministry has shared only a small fraction of the documents that Boeing is entitled to review, and has not provided a complete list of all its documents and information as required by law," Boeing says. Boeing filed a legal challenge on 2 March, fighting the failure to release the documents; that court hearing is still pending. Meanwhile, Boeing sees other opportunities from fighter contests being held by Finland and Switzerland.
:P

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2017, 10:48
by hornetfinn
Where there is a full and open competition we look forward to bringing the full depth and breadth of Boeing to our offer.


Just like in Canada... :roll:

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2017, 15:35
by mixelflick
This business of suing countries after losing, not making the cut etc seems to me to be short sighted. If you're a country evaluating strike fighters, why would you entertain Boeing's bid (be that the F-18 SH or F-15), only to open yourself up to litigation?

Hey Boeing: How about you develop a superior product?

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 20 Apr 2017, 17:26
by botsing
mixelflick wrote:This business of suing countries after losing, not making the cut etc seems to me to be short sighted.

As a country I would put a big legal team at work to add a section to the Request for Proposal where it clearly states that the country cannot be sued in anyway by the contenders or their partners over it (with all the legal mumble jumble).

Prevention is better than cure.

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 21 Apr 2017, 00:13
by popcorn
Take a cue from F1. You can protest the outcome of a race but if you lose you pay a hefty fine. :devil:

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 11 Jul 2017, 17:34
by durahawk
Sad day for the SAAB fanboys... Looks like the Gripen is out of the race.

LONDON—Belgium’s short list for its future fighter has shrunk to three after the Swedish government withdrew Saab’s new-generation Gripen from the tender.

Swedish defense materiel organization FMV, which would facilitate any Gripen sale, said in a July 10 statement that while the aircraft meets all the operational requirements in Belgium’s request for proposals, Sweden itself could not meet Brussel’s need for “extensive operational support.”

“This would require a Swedish foreign policy and political mandate that does not exist today,” the FMV said.
http://aviationweek.com/defense/gripen- ... er-contest

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 16:01
by bojack_horseman
Looks like the French are surrendering as well....

https://www.airrecognition.com/index.ph ... ogram.html

n some ways, Eric Trappier, CEO of Dassault, prime contractor for the Rafale program, already sowed doubt a few days before Paris Air Show 2017 opening. "Generally speaking, I feel there is a desire to buy american," he said to the Belgian economic newspaper L’Écho. "It's surely linked to the relationship with NATO. But it is not incompatible to be in NATO and to use non-American aircraft, as the Rafale shows," Trappier added.

Moreover, the Chief of Staff of the French Air Force, the General André Lanata, on July 19 expressed concern about the success and performance of the F-35, which, "will become a benchmark in the global air force, not just in the US, but also in our major partners."

In any case, if Dassault withdraws, BAE Systems will have to put forth strong arguments against the Belgian Air Force's favorite, the F-35.

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 16:07
by neptune
bojack_horseman wrote:Looks like the French are surrendering as well.....Moreover, the Chief of Staff of the French Air Force, the General André Lanata, on July 19 expressed concern about the success and performance of the F-35, which, "will become a benchmark in the global air force, not just in the US, but also in our major partners."..


C'est la vie
:)

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 17:38
by Tiger05
bojack_horseman wrote:Looks like the French are surrendering as well....

https://www.airrecognition.com/index.ph ... ogram.html

n some ways, Eric Trappier, CEO of Dassault, prime contractor for the Rafale program, already sowed doubt a few days before Paris Air Show 2017 opening. "Generally speaking, I feel there is a desire to buy american," he said to the Belgian economic newspaper L’Écho. "It's surely linked to the relationship with NATO. But it is not incompatible to be in NATO and to use non-American aircraft, as the Rafale shows," Trappier added.

Moreover, the Chief of Staff of the French Air Force, the General André Lanata, on July 19 expressed concern about the success and performance of the F-35, which, "will become a benchmark in the global air force, not just in the US, but also in our major partners."

In any case, if Dassault withdraws, BAE Systems will have to put forth strong arguments against the Belgian Air Force's favorite, the F-35.


Dassault isnt completely out of the race. They opted out of the RfP but will instead offer a government-to-government deal to Belgium like they did with India.

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 19:40
by bojack_horseman
Tiger05 wrote:Dassault isnt completely out of the race. They opted out of the RfP but will instead offer a government-to-government deal to Belgium like they did with India.


So at a forthcoming EU summit a French minister will put their arm around their Belgian counterpart and give it the old
"We think you'll love the Rafale. By the way, how are the wife & kids, I hear they like new cars and a trip to San Tropez?"

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 20:09
by hythelday
bojack_horseman wrote:
Tiger05 wrote:Dassault isnt completely out of the race. They opted out of the RfP but will instead offer a government-to-government deal to Belgium like they did with India.


So at a forthcoming EU summit a French minister will put their arm around their Belgian counterpart and give it the old
"We think you'll love the Rafale. By the way, how are the wife & kids, I hear they like new cars and a trip to San Tropez?"


Too bad he's flemish :D

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 20:24
by ricnunes
bojack_horseman wrote:
Tiger05 wrote:Dassault isnt completely out of the race. They opted out of the RfP but will instead offer a government-to-government deal to Belgium like they did with India.


So at a forthcoming EU summit a French minister will put their arm around their Belgian counterpart and give it the old
"We think you'll love the Rafale. By the way, how are the wife & kids, I hear they like new cars and a trip to San Tropez?"


And to think that there are lots among the Anti-F-35 and Pro-Rafale/etc... that claim that LM corrupts governments, makes (fake) propaganda, doesn't deliver what's promised, etc... :roll:

Re: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s

Unread postPosted: 30 Oct 2017, 12:19
by bojack_horseman
Fairly interesting article.

The French government still haven't given up and are kicking the lobbying efforts into another gear.

https://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/b ... 1509358945