Dutch MoD choose definitely for F-35

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

XanderCrews

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6036
  • Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 19:42

Unread post03 Mar 2015, 16:20

maus92 wrote:Dutch parliament approves first F-35 production order
By: ANNO GRAVEMAKER | Flight Global

"The Dutch parliament has approved an order for the nation’s first production batch of eight Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning IIs, to be delivered in 2019.

“With this decision, we have reached the point of no return in the replacement of the [Lockheed] F-16,” said defence minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert on 26 February...."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... er-409673/


Thank you
Choose Crews
Offline

gabriele

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 148
  • Joined: 26 Feb 2015, 19:42

Unread post03 Mar 2015, 23:49

So it seems it is confirmed that assembly will be in Cameri, eventually. But only for 27 of the dutch F-35s.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 5868
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post04 Mar 2015, 04:48

gabriele wrote:So it seems it is confirmed that assembly will be in Cameri, eventually. But only for 27 of the dutch F-35s.




I would say 27 out of 35 isn't a bad number of Italy. Which, will also get a lot of future work for the F-35 Program.
Offline

gabriele

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 148
  • Joined: 26 Feb 2015, 19:42

Unread post22 Apr 2015, 16:51

The italian defence magazine RID reports that today there has been the formal signature of the implementation agreement: Italy to build 27 F-35A for the Netherlands. In exchange, Italy will send the F-135 engines of its F-35 fleet out to Woensdrecht for the maintenance.

A far cry from ancient hopes of assembling 85 jets for the Netherlands and 131 for Italy, but at least Cameri now getting more of an assured share of work. That will help the italian ministry of defence in fighting back the stiff opposition still surviving in the left-leaning parties.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23558
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post30 Apr 2015, 00:28

An interesting Dutch perspective on their F-35 use - particularly the training aspect from SLDinfo here:

http://www.slideshare.net/robbinlaird/k ... -aircraft/ (PDF 2.2Mb)
VIA:
Another Coalition Airpower Dynamic: Training for Next Generation Aircraft
29 Apr 2015 SLDinfo

"...At the Copenhagen Airpower Symposium held on April 17, 2015, Air Commodore Dré Kraak, from the Royal Netherlands Air Force, discussed the way ahead with regard to training for the Dutch Air Force and highlighted an important evolving coalition relationship with Italy.

Not only will Italy build the bulk of the Dutch F-35s, but they are emerging as a key partner in possible training solutions as well....

...He started his presentation by highlighting that the Dutch selection of the F-35 was a no brainer – It was by far the best aircraft in the competition. Without any doubt, without any doubt operationally F35 is the best airplane ever.

And anybody that chooses something else it’s probably a political choice and not a decision being made by a fighter pilot.

There’s no fighter pilot in the Dutch Air Force that does not think that the F35 is the best aircraft in the world at this moment.

The globality of the F-35 is important as well to the RNLAF. “We want a plane that can be maintained worldwide as we don’t know where our next operation will be.” And clearly, the Dutch intend to operate their F-35s in a coalition, and Air Commodore Dré Kraak emphasized that like the F-16, the F-35 has coalition enablement built in.

...But in a vein similar to that of John Blackburn, he highlighted the need for rethinking and innovation within the Dutch Air Force to leverage the F-35.

The Chief of the Dutch Air Force talks about Air Force 3.0 as the need to reshape our approaches and our thinking about how to operate in the future.

We are a small Air Force, 7500 people and 65 fighter pilots. Obviously, we have to innovate to get best value out of this force with our initial 37 F-35s.

The training side of the picture is rooted in part in the desire to have F-35s involved in operations and not being tagged for training. What a lot of people don’t understand is that if I have less aircraft I can train less pilots.

And it’s not about the aircraft, it’s about how many pilots can I use, how many pilots can I get trained. So, if I have less F35s, I need to find an alternative to make sure that I can train those 65 combat ready pilots good enough.

And this leads to either the acquisition of new trainer aircraft or participating in a joint training program.

According to the Air Commodore:
I’m looking very much to an aircraft that can be very easily used next to an F35; not exactly the F35 cockpit, but for instance the M-346 might be a good choice for the training missions.

Because the USAF will not have a new trainer until the next decade, and its cost undetermined, the Dutch need to look elsewhere. The program is simply too late for their needs.

He visited Italy last year with the Dutch Chief of Staff and they were very impressed with the M-346. ..."

Source: http://www.sldinfo.com/another-coalitio ... -aircraft/

FROM THE PDF: "...Pilot Lecce 24 April 2015
2 students; 1 IP “is the T-346 a suitable FLIT for the F-35”

“Can Lecce fulfill the RNLAF req for pilot trng” Modern a/c, Infra, WX, facilities, syllabus, flex, costs, airspace, closer to home…"

Attachments
M-346cockpitFrontPanel.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23558
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post11 May 2015, 23:58

Dutch F-35 Pilots To Train on Italian M-346
11 May 2015 Tom Kington

"ROME — The Netherlands Air Force has struck a deal with Italy to send F-35 pilots to train in Italy on the AleniaAermacchi M-346 jet trainer, officials said on Monday.

Following an agreement signed between the air forces last week, the Netherlands will send an instructor and two student pilots to Italy's training base at Lecce in southern Italy to train on the M-346, AleniaAermacchi said.

The first group could be followed by other pilots, the firm said.

A spokesman for the Italian Air Force said the pilots arriving would be future F-35 pilots...."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /27112921/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

bring_it_on

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 929
  • Joined: 30 Apr 2014, 14:32

Unread post20 May 2015, 15:09

Some Strong words ;)

Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23558
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post17 Sep 2015, 04:35

Dutch sign deal to buy eight Joint Strike Fighter jets
26 Mar 2015 Janene Van Jaarsveldt

"The Netherlands has confirmed its decision to purchase eight F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters that will arrive in the country in 2019, the Ministry of Defense announced today. The deal was signed in Washington DC last night.

“It is good that after 12 years of political debate there is now clarity about the successor of the F-16″, said Minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert of Defense. “This is the point of no return. The F-35 is the most modern fighter aircraft that can be used for various tasks. Several comparisons have shown that the device complies with the Dutch requirements. This unit is important for the entire armed forces. Men and women who are sent on mission, must have access to the best equipment. Air support is indispensable and the device’s good sensors will strongly improve the information position of troops on the ground.”

In 2013 the Netherlands decided to replace the F-16’s with F-35 Lightning II aircraft. The Netherlands intends to buy at least 37 of these devices. There has been a lot of controversy surrounding this deal, with questions asked about whether Defense’s plan with the JSF’s is feasible and Minister Hennis getting into trouble about price guarantees. Last month the D66 announced that they would be voting against the purchase as there are too many uncertainties surrounding the purchase. As a large majority already decided to vote for the purchase, the D66’s vote against had no affect."

Source: http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/03/26/dutch- ... hter-jets/

Joint Strike Fighter jet cost could rise by €550 million
16 Sep 2015 Janene Van Jaarsveldt

"The purchase of the Joint Strike Fighter jets may be more than half a billion euros more expensive than expected. According to the new estimates, the project will cost over 5.2 billion euros, 550 million euros more than the previous estimate. Higher sales tax adds another 75 million euros.

Minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert wrote this in the budget for her ministry for next year, the Telegraaf reports. The cause of the price increase is the “substantially higher” dollar exchange rate.

The Minister wrote that the budget will not yet be adapted for the new estimate. “This would require abrupt, drastic measures, while it is uncertain whether it will ultimately be needed”, Hennis wrote. “Also because the devises in several tranches over a period of years. Both changes in the dollar exchange rate and in the price (in dollars) will affect the estimates in the coming years.”

The Netherlands wants to buy a total of 37 JSF’s to replace the F-16’s. The government reached what Hennis calls “the point of no return” earlier this year when the contract was signed for the purchase of the first eight jets. The first jet will be delivered in 2019. The new jets should be fully implemented in 2024.

PHOTO: http://www.nltimes.nl/wp-content/upload ... 60x575.jpg

Source: http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/09/16/joint- ... 0-million/
Attachments
ferry-lage-fc-1762-a-jpg-960x575.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

maus92

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2052
  • Joined: 21 May 2010, 17:50
  • Location: Annapolis, MD

Unread post18 Sep 2015, 17:27

The stronger dollar is increasing the cost for the Dutch F-35s, to the tune of about EUR500M. Seems as though they should be somewhat better insulated from USD spikes since Italy will be producing a good number of their airframes. Engines are still to be built in the US.

http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/09/16/joint- ... 0-million/
Offline

m

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 694
  • Joined: 01 Jan 2011, 23:40
  • Location: NL

Unread post18 Sep 2015, 19:01

maus92 wrote:The stronger dollar is increasing the cost for the Dutch F-35s, to the tune of about EUR500M. Seems as though they should be somewhat better insulated from USD spikes since Italy will be producing a good number of their airframes. Engines are still to be built in the US.

http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/09/16/joint- ... 0-million/


Not exactly what the minster of Defence wrote. The Dollar/Euro goes up and down. This is a momentum in time: 2015-2024
Besides that, 10% of the budget is a reserve. Although the minster does not want to use the 10% reserve for compensation of a increasing dollar.
Offline

treebeard

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 49
  • Joined: 24 May 2010, 11:47
  • Location: NL

Unread post18 Sep 2015, 19:03

The fact that Italy will be producing most if not all of our F-35s has little bearing on the fact the Dutch government will have to pay with US dollars rather than the euro.

For those interested in long reads, the exact 'F-35 progress report' may be found here: https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl ... 8-393.html (Dutch only I'm afraid.)
Last edited by treebeard on 18 Sep 2015, 20:45, edited 2 times in total.
"Do not be hasty."
Offline

m

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 694
  • Joined: 01 Jan 2011, 23:40
  • Location: NL

Unread post18 Sep 2015, 19:26

A more expensive Dutch F35 is also because of this


Department of Defense
(The Netherlands)
Progress report on project acquisition F-35
2015, Sept. 15

Page 41 - Compared to the state's previous annual reports, there has been an increase in the estimated cost of purchasing equipment. This is due to three changes.

First, a provisional sum is taken for the installation of a parachute in the Dutch aircraft. The brakechute system is currently in the final stages of development, so the actual price is not yet fixed.

The second change concerns the preparation of the aircraft for future capabilities already now be included in the production. This avoids costly adjustments in the future

The third change relates to the fact that the price advantage of an American Multi Year Buy - for which the JPO uses five percent - is now expected only from 2023, which was previously based on 2022. This is the estimated cost of delivering devices in 2022 five percent more expensive compared to the previous estimate (Google translate)
Last edited by m on 18 Sep 2015, 19:32, edited 1 time in total.
Offline

m

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 694
  • Joined: 01 Jan 2011, 23:40
  • Location: NL

Unread post18 Sep 2015, 19:29

...
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23558
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post03 Dec 2015, 06:18

ONLY the free part below - the rest - dunno.
Netherlands Preparing For F-35 Introduction
F-35 buy will quicken evolution of Netherlands air force, says commander
03 Dec 2015 Tony Osborne | Aviation Week & Space Technology

"With plans to purchase just 37 aircraft [how many would you like them to buy - are you going to chip in?], the Netherlands fleet of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) is likely to be one of the world’s smallest. Yet the fighter’s introduction is seen as a catalyst for change, transforming not only the way the Netherlands thinks about airpower but also prompting cohesion, with bilateral and trilateral discussions with other European operators. “We need to be suitable to operate in a modern agile and ever-changing environment,” Gen...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/netherl ... troduction
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23558
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post04 Dec 2015, 17:58

ANALYSIS: RNLAF urges for rapid defence development
05 Dec 2015 Beth Stevenson

"The Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLAF) is in a phase of modernisation, accepting new rotorcraft and preparing for a new fighter and unmanned air vehicle....

...One programme 20 years in the making is the ­Lockheed Martin F-35, 37 frontline examples of which have been authorised for the RNLAF, with deliveries expected between 2019 and 2024.

“There is a comma behind the 37 – not a full-stop,” Schnitger notes. “It is very possible that the budget will allow us to buy more aircraft, and the price is steadily coming down.”

Weapons selections for the Dutch aircraft have still to be made, with optimisation of the air-to-air role to ensure it exceeds the performance offered by its current Lockheed F-16 fleet. As for air-to-surface weapons, Schnitger says the Raytheon Small Diameter Bomb has been performing very well on the F-16, and the Netherlands could look to adopt the new SDB II with its F-35As. Other F-16 weapons, such as the GBU-49 Paveway II and Boeing GBU-54 Joint Direct Attack Munition, could also be used, while world events indicate stand-off weapons also need to be considered.

Schnitger says the air force has done most of the planning ahead of the introduction of the F-35, with its first two examples – acquired to support US-led initial operational test and evaluation – currently in use at – Edwards AFB in California...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nt-419540/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: wizz33 and 15 guests