Dutch MoD choose definitely for F-35

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joost

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Unread post13 Jun 2013, 18:26

The Dutch Minister of Defence anounced today to choose definitely for the F-35. The budget of 4 Billion Euros will not be increased, and the number of F-35s to be purchased will depending on the price per aircraft (most probably around 30-35). There will be one squadron stationed in Leeuwarden, and one in Volkel. She announced this today with the presentation of the "toekomstvisie" van Defensie (future vision of Defence). The subject has been debated in the Minister Council Friday. It is not yet known when the public announcement will be made.

http://www.nu.nl/politiek/3500156/minis ... f-jsf.html
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thegroundeffect

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Unread post13 Jun 2013, 19:17

30 to 35 aircraft are never enough to ensure operational capabilities. The RNLAF already has vipers stationed in Afganistan, and I very much doubt it would be able to do the same with only 35 F-35's in it's inventory.
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Unread post13 Jun 2013, 19:19

thegroundeffect wrote:30 to 35 aircraft are never enough to ensure operational capabilities. The RNLAF already has vipers stationed in Afganistan, and I very much doubt it would be able to do the same with only 35 F-35's in it's inventory.


I doubt they could. This is about maintaining a capability to regenerate an air force if they need to. The F-35 is perfect for that. It can do things for them locally and the production line will be open for many years if their security situation changes and they need more 20 years from now.
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joost

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Unread post13 Jun 2013, 19:31

There are four F-16s stationed in Afghanistan. Shouldn't be a mission impossible to send 4 F-35 on deployment with an inventory of 30-35. The number is just an educated guess, but might be more depending on what they will agree upon for the budget. Or maybe they will follow up in the future with another (smaller) purchase. Remember the Swiss has now 33 front line fighters (F-18s) apart form some F-5s. It is not that they can't do anything with their Hornets.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post13 Jun 2013, 19:40

Depends on what the 4 billion Euros covers.

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Unread post13 Jun 2013, 19:52

Per the latest budget, the WSC (Weapons System Cost) for a FY2016 F-35A should be $128 million USD which is 95 Euro.

So if the 4 Billion is WSC, then they should be able to buy 42 of them. They get cheaper after 2016 (120 in 2017, 107 in 2018, etc)

Details will have to wait till they say what the 4 Billion covers.
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thenonflyingdutchman

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Unread post13 Jun 2013, 22:44

It wasn't announced by minister of defence Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert.
Broadcaster RTL said 'sources' told them that the MoD had choosen the F-35 as successor to the F-16.

Hennis denies that a final decision has been made, and says what RTL said was 'based on nothing' (She's probably lying, and thinking 'who has leaked this information?)
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m

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Unread post15 Jun 2013, 21:39

SpudmanWP wrote:Per the latest budget, the WSC (Weapons System Cost) for a FY2016 F-35A should be $128 million USD which is 95 Euro.

So if the 4 Billion is WSC, then they should be able to buy 42 of them. They get cheaper after 2016 (120 in 2017, 107 in 2018, etc)

Details will have to wait till they say what the 4 Billion covers.

Would not pay attention to this article. Just some lousy journalists. Nothing special at their mind and filled space with some crap about the F35 (Same kind of journalists as one can find in the US or Canada).
No risk to come up with by these journalists, anyone knows the F35 will be ordered. Nice try, but got hardly attention

Quote: Minister Hennis van Defensie spreekt tegen dat ze voor de JSF heeft gekozen. RTL Nieuws meldt vandaag dat Hennis de JSF wil als opvolger van de F-16-straaljager en dat de meest betrokken ministers het daarmee eens zouden zijn. Het kabinet zou er morgen over praten.
Hennis zegt dat ze geen idee heeft waar dit vandaan komt en dat het bericht nergens op is gebaseerd. Ook andere bronnen spreken het bericht tegen. Ze wijzen er onder meer op dat de Algemene Rekenkamer nog bezig is met berekeningen.
http://nos.nl/artikel/517817-hennis-nog ... r-jsf.html

Translation: Hennis Minister of Defence disputes that she has chosen for the JSF. RTL Nieuws reports today Hennis wants the JSF as successor to the F-16 fighter jet and the ministers most involved would agree. The government would talk about it tomorrow.
Hennis says she has no idea where this came from and the message is based on nothing. Other sources speak against the message against as well. They point out, inter alia, the Audit Court is still working at calculations.


Budget and an order F35

What most Dutch seem not to be aware of, as well as Dutch journalists seem not to have that very much knowledge of letters to parliament.
Ordering the F35 has always been the plan to order in batches. Two batches, like the F16 was ordered in two batches as well. This will be an order for a first batch.

Some years ago published in a letter to parliament, with the numbers F35 of both batches (85)
The number 85 as at that time was mentioned was spit in two batches.
A possible second order, when a government would decide to, would be a responsibility for a next government (as published some years ago)
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Unread post16 Jun 2013, 02:55

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ef-387104/

Q: What chance is there for European manufacturers to win orders in F-35 partner nations such as the Netherlands?

A: The [Lockheed Martin] F-35 is a politically-driven solution from the USA, and decisions have been made. But the F-35 has demonstrated, like all the big fighter programmes, that a sophisticated programme is not so easy to develop and succeed. Maybe in 10 years it will be okay, but at the moment it is in the middle of this. For a customer, if you make a fair competition then I will come and I will do it, but if not I will not spend any money to send my people. The Netherlands has a lot of MoUs [memoranda of understanding] already signed, and I do not believe they will leave the [F-35] programme. But my successor and my shareholders will decide what to do.
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joost

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Unread post04 Sep 2013, 16:39

Today in the newspaper some leaked news about the plans for MoD: they will lose 6 to 7 F-16s but in return they will get the F-35 as the succesor of the F-16. The number of F-35 will depend on the price. But the Air Force is only allowed to spend the already allocated budget of 4 billion Euro for the F-35.

The plans will be released the 17th of September.

Translated:
Defense sells a ship that is still under construction. It is the Karel Doorman, the largest and highest Navy ship, Newspaper Trouw wrote today based on sources in and around the Defence organization. There will be also six or seven F16s scrapped.

The construction of the Karel Doorman cost over 400 million euros. The removal of the supply ship, which is under construction in Flushing, is part of a cut of 330 million euros. The Marines must also scrap a company, 180 to 200 men.

The Army is to scrap one of the four armour infantry battalions. This means a loss of 600 to 650 jobs. Opposite dropping the 6 to 7 F-16s in the Air Force, stands that the JSF will replace the F-16s. The number aircraft depends on the price. No more than four billion euros are to be spent. These measures come on top of a cut of a billion that Defence had processed earlier.

In Dutch:
Defensie verkoopt een schip dat nog in aanbouw is. Het gaat om de Karel Doorman, het grootste en hoogste schip van de marine, schrijft Trouw vandaag op basis van bronnen in en rond de defensietop. Ook worden er zes of zeven F16's geschrapt.

De bouw van de Karel Doorman kost ruim 400 miljoen euro. Het schrappen van het bevoorradingsschip, dat in aanbouw is in Vlissingen, maakt deel uit van een bezuiniging van 330 miljoen euro. De marine moet ook een compagnie inleveren, het gaat dan om 180 tot 200 man.

Bij de landmacht wordt een van de vier pantserinfanteriebataljons geschrapt. Daarmee verdwijnen 600 tot 650 banen. Tegenover het schrappen van de F16's bij de luchtmacht staat de JSF die het vliegtuig opvolgt. Het aantal toestellen hangt af van de prijs. Er mag niet meer dan vier miljard euro aan worden uitgegeven. Deze maatregelen komen bovenop een bezuiniging van een miljard euro die Defensie eerder moest verwerken.

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/09/04/def ... iet-af-is/
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m

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Unread post04 Sep 2013, 18:53

joost wrote:Today in the newspaper some leaked news about the plans for MoD: they will lose 6 to 7 F-16s but in return they will get the F-35 as the succesor of the F-16. The number of F-35 will depend on the price. But the Air Force is only allowed to spend the already allocated budget of 4 billion Euro for the F-35.

The plans will be released the 17th of September.

Translated:
Defense sells a ship that is still under construction. It is the Karel Doorman, the largest and highest Navy ship, Newspaper Trouw wrote today based on sources in and around the Defence organization. There will be also six or seven F16s scrapped.

The construction of the Karel Doorman cost over 400 million euros. The removal of the supply ship, which is under construction in Flushing, is part of a cut of 330 million euros. The Marines must also scrap a company, 180 to 200 men.

The Army is to scrap one of the four armour infantry battalions. This means a loss of 600 to 650 jobs. Opposite dropping the 6 to 7 F-16s in the Air Force, stands that the JSF will replace the F-16s. The number aircraft depends on the price. No more than four billion euros are to be spent. These measures come on top of a cut of a billion that Defence had processed earlier.

In Dutch:
Defensie verkoopt een schip dat nog in aanbouw is. Het gaat om de Karel Doorman, het grootste en hoogste schip van de marine, schrijft Trouw vandaag op basis van bronnen in en rond de defensietop. Ook worden er zes of zeven F16's geschrapt.

De bouw van de Karel Doorman kost ruim 400 miljoen euro. Het schrappen van het bevoorradingsschip, dat in aanbouw is in Vlissingen, maakt deel uit van een bezuiniging van 330 miljoen euro. De marine moet ook een compagnie inleveren, het gaat dan om 180 tot 200 man.

Bij de landmacht wordt een van de vier pantserinfanteriebataljons geschrapt. Daarmee verdwijnen 600 tot 650 banen. Tegenover het schrappen van de F16's bij de luchtmacht staat de JSF die het vliegtuig opvolgt. Het aantal toestellen hangt af van de prijs. Er mag niet meer dan vier miljard euro aan worden uitgegeven. Deze maatregelen komen bovenop een bezuiniging van een miljard euro die Defensie eerder moest verwerken.

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/09/04/def ... iet-af-is/


Would not take this serious untill sept 17. We have seen these kind of speculations by news papers in the past as well. For instance LPD HNLMS Rotterdam was reported to be sold in 2005.
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Unread post05 Sep 2013, 20:02

Labour party gives up restance tot F-35. The news mentioned above was announced today on national news tv: this month the government can decide about the purchase of the F-35. Expected is that MoD can purchase 35 aircraft for the budget of 4 billion Euro. Labour party says now they JSF is they best aircraft for the best price and supports the decision. Labour and liberals are forming the ruling party coalition in the netherlands.
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Unread post06 Sep 2013, 21:13

Labour party now supports JSF fighter jet project: Nos 06 Sep 2013 DutchNews.nl
"The Labour party has given up its opposition to the purchase of the JSF fighter jet and will support the project, ‘well-informed sources’ in The Hague have told Nos television. The cabinet is set to decide soon whether or not to press on with the order for 30 to 40 jets to replace the air force’s aging F16s. The original order was for 85 jets but this has been cut over the years....

...Report
The cabinet is expected to take a final decision this month, following the publication of a report on the costs by the general auditors office, Nos said. However, even if the green light is given, the issue still has to be passed by parliament and it will still be some five years before the aircraft actually arrive in the Netherlands."

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... ts_jsf.php
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Unread post17 Sep 2013, 10:49

Dutch to purchase 37 F-35 fighter planes - sources 17 Sep 2013
"(Reuters) - The Netherlands will purchase 37 F-35 Joint Strike Fighter planes, two sources with knowledge of the matter told Reuters on Tuesday, a decision that should end years of political wrangling over ballooning costs and delays.

Defence Minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert was due to announce the decision later on Tuesday in a policy paper setting out her long-term vision for the Dutch armed forces, the sources said...."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/ ... H620130917
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Unread post17 Sep 2013, 15:02

37 aircraft, that's no longer an air force.
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