Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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loke

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Unread post10 May 2020, 16:08

mixelflick wrote:It's interesting (and sad) to see how one quip from a politician can upend the whole program. Had Trudeau not painted himself into a corner he's trying to get out of now, Canada would likely already be flying F-35's.

Instead, they're flying 2nd hand relics. I feel bad for the pilots, because from the displayes I've seen some are highly talented. They deserve the best equipment Canada can give them, especially considering the small numbers involved. It's not like they're USAF, trying to fill wings full of F-35's.

They've decided a small nucleaus will do, and due to Trudeau's actions they're paying a very high price. Let's just hope the situation doesn't go hot and they have to fly into highly contested airspace. Because they won't last very long...

Actually it is not all bad -- the previous government planned to buy 65 F-35s, Trudeau increased the number of fighters to 88. So for the last few years they have increased the payment into the F-35 program since annual payment depends on the estimated number of a/c. So the irony is that F-35 hater Trudeau is paying more into F-35 development than the previous government.

And for sure they will buy F-35 in the end, it is inevitable that an F-35 partner will buy the F-35.
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pushoksti

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Unread post10 May 2020, 16:41

spazsinbad wrote:I'll pretend to be ZANDerCrue but of course I ain't hisself - I'm me - impatient me - is this a change, maybe not THE ONE.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24027&p=383333&hilit=criteria+change#p383333 (page 298 dis tred 14 Dec 2017)
"... In a major policy shift, Canada will now determine the winning firms for its defense equipment projects not only based on the benefits a company can provide but also the “harm” individual corporations have on the Canadian economy.... [lots of blather follows signifying something] https://www.defensenews.com/global/the- ... petitions/


Canada must be the hardest country to sell anything to, due to all the nonsense requirements we put out. Eventually a company, in some hardware bid, will just pull out and base their decision on our procurement process. I would absolutely laugh if Lockheed pulled out based on grounds of our governments ineptitude in procurement requirements. Our 65-88 aircraft order is not worth it if other countries are buying without all the childish politics.
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magitsu

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Unread post10 May 2020, 18:35

Yeah, new Thales Ground Master 400 series radars to Canadian AFB's half a decade go was another botched deal. It somehow ended up looking quite a bit more expensive per unit than a previous Finnish-Estonian deal. So it went nowhere.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada ... -1.3145196
(55M for 2)
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... adars.html (264M for 14, plus 5 static long range radar refurbs)
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ricnunes

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Unread post11 May 2020, 00:31

XanderCrews wrote:Image



DITTO! :thumb:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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ricnunes

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Unread post11 May 2020, 00:42

lukfi wrote:@XanderCrews, which criteria did Canada change? (and I don't mean Trudeau's quip that "Canada will not buy F-35", I mean criteria of the competition)


Here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cana ... SKCN1SF2RP

Resuming, Canada loosen/changed the criteria of Industrial Benefits/Offsets to the Canadian industry which were to be 100% the value of the contract (minimum) and initially represented a big percentage of the score (in order to select the winner).
Currently none of the competitors need to fulfill the 100% offsets and in terms of overall score the Industrial Benefits represent only 20% of the overall score with performance/capability (where strikes capabilities overseas operating together with a coalition is now a big deal) representing 60% of the score and Cost representing the remaining 20%.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post11 May 2020, 07:17

pushoksti wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:I'll pretend to be ZANDerCrue but of course I ain't hisself - I'm me - impatient me - is this a change, maybe not THE ONE.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24027&p=383333&hilit=criteria+change#p383333 (page 298 dis tred 14 Dec 2017)
"... In a major policy shift, Canada will now determine the winning firms for its defense equipment projects not only based on the benefits a company can provide but also the “harm” individual corporations have on the Canadian economy.... [lots of blather follows signifying something] https://www.defensenews.com/global/the- ... petitions/


Canada must be the hardest country to sell anything to, due to all the nonsense requirements we put out. Eventually a company, in some hardware bid, will just pull out and base their decision on our procurement process. I would absolutely laugh if Lockheed pulled out based on grounds of our governments ineptitude in procurement requirements. Our 65-88 aircraft order is not worth it if other countries are buying without all the childish politics.



according to hbpencil there is still a real chance they screw this up.

But if they end up going with F-35 Canada gets more than originally planned. :mrgreen:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post14 May 2020, 03:07

Five Page PDF of the SkiesMag 'Super Hornet for Canada' pages above attached Below Below Below, how low can you go.
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ShornetCanadaLowRisk pp5.pdf
(1.19 MiB) Downloaded 2163 times
SkiesMagShornetCanucks.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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madrat

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Unread post14 May 2020, 12:32

Is it civilian, military, or both leadership burning Canada's money like that?

It is interesting to see Canada dominated by foreign influence. It's almost a smaller version of the taint we see stateside.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post15 May 2020, 09:00

Canada Zeroes in on a New Fighter [Four Page PDF attached below]
Jun 2020 Jamie Hunter

"The saga of the CF-188 fighter replacement for the Royal Canadian Air Force is long and complex, but the country is now on the verge of selecting its new combat aircraft, with industry proposals set to be submitted this summer. Jamie Hunter reports..."

Source: AIR International JUNE 2020 Vol 98 No 6
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CANADA New FIGHTER AirInternational June 2020 pp4.pdf
(492.96 KiB) Downloaded 2081 times
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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ricnunes

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Unread post15 May 2020, 19:37

spazsinbad wrote:
Canada Zeroes in on a New Fighter [Four Page PDF attached below]
Jun 2020 Jamie Hunter

"The saga of the CF-188 fighter replacement for the Royal Canadian Air Force is long and complex, but the country is now on the verge of selecting its new combat aircraft, with industry proposals set to be submitted this summer. Jamie Hunter reports..."

Source: AIR International JUNE 2020 Vol 98 No 6


Why do these journalists keep with this same and already proven wrong rhetoric:
While both the Gripen and Super Hornet come in at a lower unit cost than the F-35


is beyond me! :doh: :roll:

Even Saab admitted that the Gripen E has a cost of $85 Million USD per unit while it is well known that the F-35A is now costs $77 Million USD per unit.

Also the:
the country is now on the verge of selecting its new combat aircraft


...is gold comedy! Canada won't be select the new fighter earlier than 2022, so that's hardly "on the verge of selecting its new combat aircraft" :roll:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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lipovitand

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Unread post16 May 2020, 21:28

Sorry to break a flow here but you guys wanna hear a joke?

Here:

http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.com/ ... qus_thread

I got sooo many chuckle.

tldr: just a speculation of an avg Canadian
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mixelflick

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Unread post18 May 2020, 14:10

I'm starting to think Canada will spring for 2nd hand Super Hornets.

Just imagine how many the US Navy will be getting rid of in the coming years. I'm sure there are Block II's that can't/don't warrant an upgrade to Block III standard. They may be an attractive option for a country hell bent on buying 2nd best. Not only that, they'll be plenty of spares/much wider fleet of SH's for decades to come.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post19 May 2020, 00:00

lipovitand wrote:Sorry to break a flow here but you guys wanna hear a joke?

Here:

http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.com/ ... qus_thread

I got sooo many chuckle.

tldr: just a speculation of an avg Canadian


Told the author he had the IQ equivalent to a cucumber. He didn't take well to that despite it being the truth.
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ricnunes

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Unread post19 May 2020, 00:06

lipovitand wrote:Sorry to break a flow here but you guys wanna hear a joke?

Here:

http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.com/ ... qus_thread

I got sooo many chuckle.

tldr: just a speculation of an avg Canadian


Oh my god, my eyes hurt really, really bad!!
Another precious waste of seconds of my life...

"Gripen is the best performing of them all because it's a light fighter" :bang:

I guess that moron thinks that the F-5 outperforms the F-15 or F-16 for instance :roll:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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