Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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XanderCrews

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Unread post28 Apr 2020, 23:15

optimist wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
yeah they're redesigning a nose sensor and a the gun port for better LO.

That's about the sum of it.



maybe people will have more insight or other finds, but that's what I have found so far.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post06 May 2020, 08:20

Federal government considering delaying acceptance of bids for new fighter jets

The bids were originally supposed to be submitted in May 2019 but that was pushed back to March 30 this year. That deadline, in turn, was pushed back to June 30 at the request of the aerospace industry, Public Services and Procurement Canada announced in February.

But now the department is once again evaluating a request from industry to further extend that deadline for the proposals, Procurement Canada spokesman Marc-André Charbonneau confirmed in an email to this newspaper.

“We remain committed to providing members of the Royal Canadian Air Force with the fighter aircraft they need to do their jobs, and ensuring the best possible value for Canadians,” he added. “This procurement is a once in a generation opportunity to support the growth of Canada’s aerospace and defence industries for decades to come.”

If that happens it is unclear on how the current timetable for buying the fighter jets, to replace the CF-18 aircraft, might be affected. A winning bidder was to have been chosen in 2022. The first aircraft would have been delivered by 2025, according to the government’s schedule.


Industry representatives say they expect the bid submissions to be pushed back at least until the end of the summer. The federal government is focused on dealing with its response to the novel coronavirus pandemic and Public Services and Procurement Canada is deeply involved in setting up procurements of protective gear and medical supplies.




It has also been difficult for companies to collect and provide the necessary classified information to the federal government that is needed for the bids. Much of that has to be delivered directly to government officials and cannot be transmitted over the internet because of the sensitivity of the information.

The fighter jet competition was launched on Dec. 12, 2017 and at this point three aircraft are to be considered. Those include the F-35, the Super Hornet, and the Gripen. The program is expected to cost around $19 billion and will see the purchase of 88 new jets.

Information about how Canada intends to evaluate the jets is limited. But Public Services and Procurement Canada has noted that technical merit will make up the bulk of the assessment at 60 per cent. Cost and economic benefits companies can provide to Canada will each be worth 20 per cent. But Canada won’t conduct a fly-off between fighter jets competing to become the country’s new warplane nor conduct testing to see how such aircraft perform under cold weather conditions, Public Services and Procurement Canada confirmed earlier this year.

Concerns have been raised by Lockheed Martin’s rivals that the competition has been designed to favour the F-35. This newspaper reported last year the requirements for the new jets put emphasis on strategic attack and striking at ground targets during foreign missions. That criteria is seen to benefit the F-35. In addition, the federal government changed criteria on how it would assess industrial benefits after the U.S. government threatened to pull the F-35 from the competition.

The Conservative government had previously selected the F-35 as the air force’s new jet but backed away from that plan after concerns about the technology and growing cost.

During the 2015 election campaign, Justin Trudeau vowed that his government would not purchase the F-35. But at the same time, Trudeau stated his government would hold an open competition for the fighter purchase.

The Liberal government backed away from its promise to freeze out the F-35 and the aircraft is now seen as a front-runner in the competition as it has many supporters in the Royal Canadian Air Force. Many of Canada’s allies plan to operate the plane.

Canada is a partner in the F-35 program and has contributed funding for the aircraft’s development over the years. It has already made its latest payment on that program.


https://www.saltwire.com/news/canada/fe ... c.facebook
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magitsu

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Unread post06 May 2020, 13:46

The gift that keeps on giving.
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ricnunes

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Unread post06 May 2020, 14:40

Canada invests another US$70M in F-35 development despite no commitment to buy

Lee Berthiaume, The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, May 6, 2020 5:14AM EDT


OTTAWA -- The federal government has made another multimillion-dollar investment into the development of the F-35 stealth fighter jet despite no guarantee it will buy the aircraft.

Canada made the annual F-35 payment to the U.S. military last week, spending US$70.1 million to remain one of nine partner countries in the project.

Each partner is required to cover a portion of the plane's multibillion-dollar development costs to stay at the table.

Staying in the program has advantages, as partners get a discount when purchasing the jets and compete for billions of dollars in contracts associated with building and maintaining them.

While the new payment brings Canada's total investment in the F-35 over the years to US$541.3 million since 1997, the government says Canadian companies have also secured US$1.8 billion in work related to the stealth fighter over that time.

The payment comes as the federal government is considering another extension to the $19-billion competition to replace Canada's aging CF-18s, in which the F-35 is one of three planes in the running.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published May 6, 2020.


Source:
https://www.cp24.com/world/canada-inves ... -1.4926916
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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mixelflick

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Unread post07 May 2020, 16:45

Great to hear about the new delay.

It's not like Trudeau/Canada have waffled on anything prior, so a little delay is nothing. The boys flying 80's retro Hornets must be so stoked. And to be an aspiring fighter pilot in Canada! All those young kids with stars in their eyes.. Some day, they might grow up to fly a fighter almost 40 years older than they are.

I say when this is all over, Canada and India should team up and co-develop a Tejas-Arrow hybrid.
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ricnunes

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Unread post07 May 2020, 23:49

Delay in acceptance of bids for the Canadian fighter competition is confirmed.

Fighter jet bid deadline pushed to July 31, Canadian government confirms
Author of the article:David Pugliese • Ottawa Citizen

The Canadian government has once again extended its deadline to accept bids for new fighter jets.

As this newspaper reported on Tuesday, the federal government was considering yet another extension, this time from the current June 30 deadline.

On Wednesday night, Public Services and Procurement Canada confirmed that deadline had been changed again.

“The June 30, 2020 deadline for eligible suppliers to submit their proposals has been extended to July 31, 2020, at the request of industry,” it noted in a statement.

“The COVID-19 pandemic is presenting numerous challenges for businesses and their workforce, including the eligible suppliers for the Future Fighter Capability Project. The unprecedented situation has impacted proposal finalization. To support our commitment to conducting an open, fair, and transparent competition, the extension will ensure all suppliers are able to submit their most competitive offer to Canada.”

The fighter jet competition was launched on Dec. 12, 2017 and at this point three aircraft are to be considered: the F-35, the Super Hornet and the Gripen. The program is expected to cost around $19 billion and will see the purchase of 88 new jets.

The new jets would replace the current CF-18 fleet.

The bids were originally supposed to be submitted in May 2019 but that was pushed back to March 30 this year. That deadline, in turn, was pushed back to June 30 at the request of the aerospace industry, Public Services and Procurement Canada announced in February.


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https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national ... 008f0574a/
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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optimist

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Unread post09 May 2020, 05:06

mixelflick wrote:Don't think the additional signal reduction is worth the expense. It's not like its going to make it uber hard to detect, target and destroy - unless they plan on fighting without weapons.

Well, a reduced RCS SH will at least have a gun. Hopefully some nitwit doesn't axe that... or put external stores on canted external pylons (oops, I guess those already happened)..

On a boat, they are very fussy about the RCS of the block II and will repair very minor panel misalignment and damage. To maintain RCS. Leading and trailing edges are a big deal. When they have their go to war kit on. The RAAF photos here show they pixeled the air intakes, when operational.
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pushoksti

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Unread post09 May 2020, 15:57

ricnunes wrote:Delay in acceptance of bids for the Canadian fighter competition is confirmed.

Fighter jet bid deadline pushed to July 31, Canadian government confirms
Author of the article:David Pugliese • Ottawa Citizen

The Canadian government has once again extended its deadline to accept bids for new fighter jets.

As this newspaper reported on Tuesday, the federal government was considering yet another extension, this time from the current June 30 deadline.

On Wednesday night, Public Services and Procurement Canada confirmed that deadline had been changed again.

“The June 30, 2020 deadline for eligible suppliers to submit their proposals has been extended to July 31, 2020, at the request of industry,” it noted in a statement.

“The COVID-19 pandemic is presenting numerous challenges for businesses and their workforce, including the eligible suppliers for the Future Fighter Capability Project. The unprecedented situation has impacted proposal finalization. To support our commitment to conducting an open, fair, and transparent competition, the extension will ensure all suppliers are able to submit their most competitive offer to Canada.”

The fighter jet competition was launched on Dec. 12, 2017 and at this point three aircraft are to be considered: the F-35, the Super Hornet and the Gripen. The program is expected to cost around $19 billion and will see the purchase of 88 new jets.

The new jets would replace the current CF-18 fleet.

The bids were originally supposed to be submitted in May 2019 but that was pushed back to March 30 this year. That deadline, in turn, was pushed back to June 30 at the request of the aerospace industry, Public Services and Procurement Canada announced in February.


Source:
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national ... 008f0574a/


By the time we get a replacement the US will retire at least one F-35.
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ricnunes

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Unread post09 May 2020, 20:23

pushoksti wrote:By the time we get a replacement the US will retire at least one F-35.


LoL!
Perhaps Canada's next/future fighter aircraft will be the X-Wing Starfighter :mrgreen: :doh:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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optimist

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Unread post10 May 2020, 02:33

Perhaps Canada will do the same with the F-35, as they did with the Hornet. Buy end of life units from Australia?
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XanderCrews

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Unread post10 May 2020, 05:37

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lukfi

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Unread post10 May 2020, 08:49

@XanderCrews, which criteria did Canada change? (and I don't mean Trudeau's quip that "Canada will not buy F-35", I mean criteria of the competition)
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spazsinbad

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Unread post10 May 2020, 09:41

I'll pretend to be ZANDerCrue but of course I ain't hisself - I'm me - impatient me - is this a change, maybe not THE ONE.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24027&p=383333&hilit=criteria+change#p383333 (page 298 dis tred 14 Dec 2017)
"... In a major policy shift, Canada will now determine the winning firms for its defense equipment projects not only based on the benefits a company can provide but also the “harm” individual corporations have on the Canadian economy.... [lots of blather follows signifying something] https://www.defensenews.com/global/the- ... petitions/
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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loke

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Unread post10 May 2020, 11:46

spazsinbad wrote:I'll pretend to be ZANDerCrue but of course I ain't hisself - I'm me - impatient me - is this a change, maybe not THE ONE.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24027&p=383333&hilit=criteria+change#p383333 (page 298 dis tred 14 Dec 2017)
"... In a major policy shift, Canada will now determine the winning firms for its defense equipment projects not only based on the benefits a company can provide but also the “harm” individual corporations have on the Canadian economy.... [lots of blather follows signifying something] https://www.defensenews.com/global/the- ... petitions/

Nope, I think this is not what he is referring to. I am quite sure he is referring to the industrial offset requirements they had in there, which were in conflict with the way F-35 program is organized. LM threatened to pull out unless those requirements were changed. The Canadians of course changed those requirements, and this kept F-35 in the competition.

It is highly likely that Canada will go for F-35. All things considered (including the fact that they are F-35 partners) it would be incredibly stupid by Canada to choose anything but F-35. Even Loke can see that.
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Unread post10 May 2020, 13:55

It's interesting (and sad) to see how one quip from a politician can upend the whole program. Had Trudeau not painted himself into a corner he's trying to get out of now, Canada would likely already be flying F-35's.

Instead, they're flying 2nd hand relics. I feel bad for the pilots, because from the displayes I've seen some are highly talented. They deserve the best equipment Canada can give them, especially considering the small numbers involved. It's not like they're USAF, trying to fill wings full of F-35's.

They've decided a small nucleaus will do, and due to Trudeau's actions they're paying a very high price. Let's just hope the situation doesn't go hot and they have to fly into highly contested airspace. Because they won't last very long...
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