Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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mixelflick

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Unread post25 Feb 2020, 13:16

So it's down to Gripen vs. F-35 in Canada.

Does this mean we've finally cleared the single engine hangup hurdle?
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ricnunes

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Unread post25 Feb 2020, 15:22

mixelflick wrote:So it's down to Gripen vs. F-35 in Canada.


Where did you get that?? :?
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post25 Feb 2020, 15:54

OTTAWA — Canada’s long-running effort to buy new fighter jets is facing another delay.

The federal government says today it is giving fighter-jet makers another three months to submit their proposals for replacing Canada’s aging CF-18s.

Companies were to have submitted their bids at the end of March, but will now have until June.

Canada wants to buy 88 new fighter jets at an estimated cost of $19 billion, to replace the nearly 40-year old CF-18s.

Two years ago Canada announced plans to invest more than $1 billion to keep the CF-18s in the air until 2032.

Three planes are in the running to replace them including Lockheed Martin's F-35, Boeing's Super Hornet and Saab's Gripen.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Feb. 25, 2020.

The Canadian Press
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ricnunes

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Unread post25 Feb 2020, 17:25

XanderCrews wrote:OTTAWA — Canada’s long-running effort to buy new fighter jets is facing another delay.

The federal government says today it is giving fighter-jet makers another three months to submit their proposals for replacing Canada’s aging CF-18s.

Companies were to have submitted their bids at the end of March, but will now have until June.

Canada wants to buy 88 new fighter jets at an estimated cost of $19 billion, to replace the nearly 40-year old CF-18s.

Two years ago Canada announced plans to invest more than $1 billion to keep the CF-18s in the air until 2032.

Three planes are in the running to replace them including Lockheed Martin's F-35, Boeing's Super Hornet and Saab's Gripen.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Feb. 25, 2020.

The Canadian Press



I've first read about that subject when it was still a "rumor", this a month ago. Now this seems to be the official confirmation of the previously "announced rumor". And speaking of "rumors", the "rumor" around the decision above seems to be tied with the Saab bid - The "rumor" indicates that the Saab bid doesn't comply with the Canadian requirements so this delay is seen as a sort of a last ditch for Saab to resubmit a somehow modified bid.

Here:
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national ... quirements

One can read the following:
Others have questioned whether the delay means that the lone European fighter jet in the competition, the Gripen, might be having trouble meeting the requirements which are geared towards interoperability/security requirements with the U.S.



All of the above, leads me to believe that this will be a F-35 versus Super Hornet "fight" (with the F-35 winning in the end) when it comes to the Canadian competition, hence my question and astonishment in my last post.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post25 Feb 2020, 22:03

A nod is as good as a wink NUDGE NUDGE (old vaudeville saying about whatever) and THANK YOU CANADA! HipHipHooray.
"...According to media reports, and information from Monday’s [24 Feb] ribbon-cutting, there are indications Canada may wind up acquiring the F-35, & becoming part of the [Australia Canada United Kingdom Reprogramming Laboratory ACURL] laboratory...." viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23043&p=435716&hilit=indications#p435716
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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Corsair1963

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Unread post26 Feb 2020, 01:58

Every delay just helps the F-35 chances.... :wink:


Makes you wonder.... :|
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charlielima223

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Unread post26 Feb 2020, 04:54

Canadian anti F-35 crowd...
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BF4C...
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Corsair1963

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Unread post26 Feb 2020, 05:03

LOL :lmao:
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ricnunes

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Unread post26 Feb 2020, 11:07

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

even the article that Xander refers to, says the following:
The Liberal government backed away from its promise to freeze out the F-35 and the aircraft is now seen as a front-runner in the competition as it has many supporters in the Royal Canadian Air Force. Many of Canada’s allies plan to operate the plane.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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hb_pencil

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Unread post27 Feb 2020, 03:18

If you all think that the F-35 is in the lead, you know more than anybody in government or the manufacturers. There's a reason why Gripen and Super Hornet are still competing - if it was as clearcut as F-35 was in the lead, they would have left years ago.... and yet here we are. They all see how this government has handled this file over the past decade.... the blatant history that you seem to ignore.

That includes the fact this government nearly sole-sourced the Super Hornet in order to backdoor its selection, and it just moved back the response date three months so the Gripen (an aircraft utterly incapable of meeting Canada's requirement) can compete "fairly." Its follows a very long history of obtaining substandard equipment for the Canadian armed forces, just because it provided superior industrial benefits. We're buying a Search and Rescue Aircraft that is utterly incapable of doing the mission assigned to it, but provided superior ITBs from its competitor. We sent a rifle made in Canada during the First World War that was liable to kill the user - just because it was made in Canada. This should be a red flag to everyone who is interested in this field.

And when I mean "superior industrial benefits" its basically the ones as outlined within the ITB VP policy, not the JSF program industrial program. Even Harper, who was going to sole source the aircraft twice disliked the partnership format because of the lack of guarantees - this was a sticking point for a PM who wanted to buy the aircraft. Now we have an PM who doesn't want the aircraft, do you really think that Industry Canada is going to make allowances in order to fully encapsulate the benefits the program offers? No, they;'ve actually docked the F-35 marks because of it.

I have no end of criticism for how this has been handled, but nobody who actually knows about this area (and those are certainly not the reporters), thinks this is a sure thing.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post27 Feb 2020, 08:44

hb_pencil wrote:If you all think that the F-35 is in the lead, you know more than anybody in government or the manufacturers. There's a reason why Gripen and Super Hornet are still competing - if it was as clearcut as F-35 was in the lead, they would have left years ago.... and yet here we are. They all see how this government has handled this file over the past decade.... the blatant history that you seem to ignore.

That includes the fact this government nearly sole-sourced the Super Hornet in order to backdoor its selection, and it just moved back the response date three months so the Gripen (an aircraft utterly incapable of meeting Canada's requirement) can compete "fairly." Its follows a very long history of obtaining substandard equipment for the Canadian armed forces, just because it provided superior industrial benefits. We're buying a Search and Rescue Aircraft that is utterly incapable of doing the mission assigned to it, but provided superior ITBs from its competitor. We sent a rifle made in Canada during the First World War that was liable to kill the user - just because it was made in Canada. This should be a red flag to everyone who is interested in this field.

And when I mean "superior industrial benefits" its basically the ones as outlined within the ITB VP policy, not the JSF program industrial program. Even Harper, who was going to sole source the aircraft twice disliked the partnership format because of the lack of guarantees - this was a sticking point for a PM who wanted to buy the aircraft. Now we have an PM who doesn't want the aircraft, do you really think that Industry Canada is going to make allowances in order to fully encapsulate the benefits the program offers? No, they;'ve actually docked the F-35 marks because of it.

I have no end of criticism for how this has been handled, but nobody who actually knows about this area (and those are certainly not the reporters), thinks this is a sure thing.


Honestly, Trudeau has little real alternative! All he is doing to playing for time........... :shock:
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hb_pencil

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Unread post27 Feb 2020, 10:57

Corsair1963 wrote:
hb_pencil wrote:If you all think that the F-35 is in the lead, you know more than anybody in government or the manufacturers. There's a reason why Gripen and Super Hornet are still competing - if it was as clearcut as F-35 was in the lead, they would have left years ago.... and yet here we are. They all see how this government has handled this file over the past decade.... the blatant history that you seem to ignore.

That includes the fact this government nearly sole-sourced the Super Hornet in order to backdoor its selection, and it just moved back the response date three months so the Gripen (an aircraft utterly incapable of meeting Canada's requirement) can compete "fairly." Its follows a very long history of obtaining substandard equipment for the Canadian armed forces, just because it provided superior industrial benefits. We're buying a Search and Rescue Aircraft that is utterly incapable of doing the mission assigned to it, but provided superior ITBs from its competitor. We sent a rifle made in Canada during the First World War that was liable to kill the user - just because it was made in Canada. This should be a red flag to everyone who is interested in this field.

And when I mean "superior industrial benefits" its basically the ones as outlined within the ITB VP policy, not the JSF program industrial program. Even Harper, who was going to sole source the aircraft twice disliked the partnership format because of the lack of guarantees - this was a sticking point for a PM who wanted to buy the aircraft. Now we have an PM who doesn't want the aircraft, do you really think that Industry Canada is going to make allowances in order to fully encapsulate the benefits the program offers? No, they;'ve actually docked the F-35 marks because of it.

I have no end of criticism for how this has been handled, but nobody who actually knows about this area (and those are certainly not the reporters), thinks this is a sure thing.


Honestly, Trudeau has little real alternative! All he is doing to playing for time........... :shock:


You seem to be under the mistaken impression that he, or most Canadian politicians, actually know or even care whats best for the Canadian Armed Forces. They don't.

We're not like the United States whatsoever, so take your cultural views of defence, security or Foreign Policy. and throw them out the window. That was a really hard lesson for LM to learn in this whole debacle. The most common Canadian view is "why spend on defence, we'll free ride on the US."

This is what will have a disproportionately large influence on what Canada purchases - and its where the F-35 is the weakest.

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/086.nsf/eng/home
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Corsair1963

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Unread post27 Feb 2020, 11:08

hb_pencil wrote:
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that he, or most Canadian politicians, actually know or even care whats best for the Canadian Armed Forces. They don't.

We're not like the United States whatsoever, so take your cultural views of defence, security or Foreign Policy. and throw them out the window. That was a really hard lesson for LM to learn in this whole debacle. The most common Canadian view is "why spend on defence, we'll free ride on the US."

This is what will have a disproportionately large influence on what Canada purchases - and its where the F-35 is the weakest.

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/086.nsf/eng/home


Sorry, two sides to the coin here! The US will play a very big part in this equation. Which, would be very "unhappy" with Trudeau and his Government. If, the don't select the F-35....

So, let's see if Trudeau has the guts to poke the BEAR? (i.e. Trump) :nono:
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charlielima223

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Unread post27 Feb 2020, 17:27

Corsair1963 wrote:Sorry, two sides to the coin here! The US will play a very big part in this equation. Which, would be very "unhappy" with Trudeau and his Government. If, the don't select the F-35....

So, let's see if Trudeau has the guts to poke the BEAR? (i.e. Trump) :nono:


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