Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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XanderCrews

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Unread post22 Oct 2019, 14:50

Corsair1963 wrote:OMG....If, Trudeau could win re-election. Hell, so could TRUMP.............. :shock:


since 1980 only 1 American president HAS NOT been reelected.

LOL way to go Canada :roll:
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XanderCrews

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Unread post22 Oct 2019, 15:00

botsing wrote:The Netherlands is doing pretty well in that healthcare index and we recently bought even more F-35's!

Ergo: Canada's healthcare will combine just fine with F-35's.



Before Canada (and the Dutch for that matter) expanded their order I often brought up that both Norway and Netherlands seemed to be purchasing far more F-35s per population than Canada with magically no hurtful loss of social services.

Also Norway is nice and cold, and thus F-35 should not struggle at all in Canada...
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notkent

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Unread post22 Oct 2019, 15:30

Canada needs to get off the pot and choose the F-35 already.
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talkitron

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Unread post22 Oct 2019, 18:41

I am not Canadian but my hunch is that the Liberal minority government makes it harder for Canada to choose a political hot potato fighter like the F-35. Picking the F-35 gives ammo to the other left wing parties, the NDP and the Greens, to attack the Liberals with. Trudeau will likely avoid such attacks as he will have to plan for an election at any minute. Therefore, he cannot take policy risks that will drive his voters to the smaller parties. Further, the Liberals need the agreement of one other party to pass bills, including the budget.

So the election makes the Super Hornet Block III more likely, in my opinion. Another possibility will be to just postpone the decision in until after another general election.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post22 Oct 2019, 20:27

talkitron wrote:I am not Canadian but my hunch is that the Liberal minority government makes it harder for Canada to choose a political hot potato fighter like the F-35. Picking the F-35 gives ammo to the other left wing parties, the NDP and the Greens, to attack the Liberals with. Trudeau will likely avoid such attacks as he will have to plan for an election at any minute. Therefore, he cannot take policy risks that will drive his voters to the smaller parties. Further, the Liberals need the agreement of one other party to pass bills, including the budget.

So the election makes the Super Hornet Block III more likely, in my opinion. Another possibility will be to just postpone the decision in until after another general election.


But the F-35 is a "conservative" fighter In Canada, making Conservative approval pretty starightforward I would think

The entire point of the "competition" is political cover anyway. F-35 will be the conclusion and every can throw up their hands and say "well the system is the system and it picked F-35!", or they can again refuse to believe their own agencies and defer to the next circus of the CF-18 replacement (maybe an octopus or tea leaves this time?)

Plus Trudeau and Boeing got into an ugly sparing match with Boeing. Since the PM didn't change I don't think that helps Boeing at all.

this are just my really big opinion, I have not dived into the minutia nor would I consider myself and expert on Canadian politics
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ricnunes

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Unread post22 Oct 2019, 22:03

I fully agree with XanderCrews above.

The Liberals selecting the F-35 shouldn't be a problem at all since it should have the Conservatives backing and both parties have by large the vast majority of the parliament.
And I don't think that NDP or the Greens will use the F-35 as some sort of "revenge tool" against the Liberals even because if the Liberals are to lose voters due to decisions made by the forthcoming Liberal government than these voters will IMO mostly go the Conservatives - as it already happened in yesterday's election as well as in the past (like for example when Stephen Harper won with the majority in 2011) - instead of going to the smaller parties like NDP.

Moreover, lets remember that the F-35 is actually and in the end more of a "Liberal Fighter" than a "Conservative Fighter" since lets again remember, it was a Liberal government led by Jean Chretien that signed Canada in the JSF program in the first place.


XanderCrews wrote:Plus Trudeau and Boeing got into an ugly sparing match with Boeing. Since the PM didn't change I don't think that helps Boeing at all.


This, absolutely this!
Moreover, lets remember that recently Trudeau praised Lockheed Martin for the excellent economic and job contribution to Canada and lets also not forget that Lockheed Martin Canada is the main contractor of the future Canadian Warships (Frigate/Destroyers).
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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element1loop

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 00:02

Canada will select the F-35 in 2027 but will cancel it before delivery because the S400 is so much better.

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weasel1962

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 00:50

So Trudeau is now forced into a partnership with Jagmeet Singh's NDP whose 100+ page manifesto puts defence on the last page as an afterthought.

What's interesting is that the NDP at least believes Canada needs a fighter replacement, just one that is the cheapest from a "free and fair" selection.

Can't rule out S-300.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 02:11

weasel1962 wrote:So Trudeau is now forced into a partnership with Jagmeet Singh's NDP whose 100+ page manifesto puts defence on the last page as an afterthought.

What's interesting is that the NDP at least believes Canada needs a fighter replacement, just one that is the cheapest from a "free and fair" selection.

Can't rule out S-300.




LOL Canada isn't going to acquire the Gripen let alone the S-300................ :lmao:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 02:13

weasel1962 wrote:So Trudeau is now forced into a partnership with Jagmeet Singh's NDP whose 100+ page manifesto puts defence on the last page as an afterthought.

What's interesting is that the NDP at least believes Canada needs a fighter replacement, just one that is the cheapest from a "free and fair" selection.

Can't rule out S-300.



BTW Trudeau lost the popular vote and odds are he will be gone in the next couple of years....(i.e. next election)
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Corsair1963

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 02:16

XanderCrews wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:OMG....If, Trudeau could win re-election. Hell, so could TRUMP.............. :shock:


since 1980 only 1 American president HAS NOT been reelected.

LOL way to go Canada :roll:



Things eventually change....Hell, Trump winning in 2016 proves that. As very few would have ever predicted he would win in the first place!
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notkent

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 15:08

Does not matter how good the S-300 or S-400 is, you still want the best fighter that you can afford.
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ricnunes

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 16:04

notkent wrote:Does not matter how good the S-300 or S-400 is, you still want the best fighter that you can afford.


Absolutely.
Moreover, Canada doesn't have a long range SAM since the early 1970's (CIM-10 Bomarc) and for sure that won't change now and neither in the foreseeable future.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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sferrin

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 16:28

Corsair1963 wrote:OMG....If, Trudeau could win re-election. Hell, so could TRUMP.............. :shock:


We can hope. If one of the lunatics being pushed by the democrats wins you can turn the lights out, show's over. (Open borders, reparations, free healthcare for illegal aliens, destruction of private sector health insurance, wipe out all college debt, 97% tax on the wealthy, $93 trillion "Green Plan", firearm confiscation, even more censorship, etc. etc. etc. And kiss nuclear Triad modernization bye-bye. These are ALL policies the democrats have publicly pushed.)

Trump may not be the most tactful person on the planet but he gets sh*t done and he's a HELL of a lot less corrupt than the media and the democrats are trying to paint him. (They can't compete on resume so they're just trying to get people to hate him so they'll vote against him. Thus the hurricane of bullshit accusations that waste taxpayer dollars and go nowhere.)
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XanderCrews

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Unread post23 Oct 2019, 17:56

sferrin wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:OMG....If, Trudeau could win re-election. Hell, so could TRUMP.............. :shock:


We can hope. If one of the lunatics being pushed by the democrats wins you can turn the lights out, show's over. (Open borders, reparations, free healthcare for illegal aliens, destruction of private sector health insurance, wipe out all college debt, 97% tax on the wealthy, $93 trillion "Green Plan", firearm confiscation, even more censorship, etc. etc. etc. And kiss nuclear Triad modernization bye-bye. These are ALL policies the democrats have publicly pushed.)


And an outdated nuclear triad is the "nice" outcome. The not nice is balkanization/civil war.
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