Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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optimist

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Unread post12 Jul 2019, 04:26

Not to mention the CFT, that are also on a wish list.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post12 Jul 2019, 04:32

optimist wrote:Not to mention the CFT, that are also on a wish list.

R&D for that made it into the FY2020 budget

The FY 2020 funding request was increased by $4.856 million for Block III Conformal Fuel Tank (CFT) flight test
support.
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optimist

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Unread post12 Jul 2019, 10:18

Thanks, I missed that it moved into R&D. We Aussies would also be interested in CFT for the Rhino and growlers
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Unread post12 Jul 2019, 10:55

RAAF Growlers will be upgraded with USN Growlers - upon what timetable don't know but LOCKSTEP has been mentioned.
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luke_sandoz

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Unread post15 Jul 2019, 00:23

Today, Canada takes another giant leap backwards . . .


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/fi ... et-to-2032
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Corsair1963

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Unread post15 Jul 2019, 01:39

Does anybody really believe. That Canada won't acquire the F-35 in the end....(anybody) :wink:
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optimist

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Unread post15 Jul 2019, 03:54

Getting the secondhand hornets, also reminds me of the secondhand subs they got from the UK. Another troubled platform. If nothing else, it gives other nations the means, to minimise their troubles. "If you think this is bad. Look at Canada"
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mixelflick

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Unread post15 Jul 2019, 18:59

luke_sandoz wrote:Today, Canada takes another giant leap backwards . . .


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/fi ... et-to-2032


Canada: Flying yesterday's fighter jets, today

Since we're going retro 1980's, I'd suggest all pilots wear mullets. And further, be issued Rubick's cubes while mandating they be able to solve them during all landings and takeoffs.

Trudeau is just that out of touch to sign off on such a thing...
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southernphantom

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Unread post15 Jul 2019, 19:15

Corsair1963 wrote:Does anybody really believe. That Canada won't acquire the F-35 in the end....(anybody) :wink:


It's the clear leader performance-wise. Logically, they will.

Unfortunately, Trudeau has demonstrated ample ability to be anything but logical, and performance is not the only factor by which competitions are decided.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post15 Jul 2019, 20:13

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Today, Canada takes another giant leap backwards . . .


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/fi ... et-to-2032


Canada: Flying yesterday's fighter jets, today

Since we're going retro 1980's, I'd suggest all pilots wear mullets. And further, be issued Rubick's cubes while mandating they be able to solve them during all landings and takeoffs.

Trudeau is just that out of touch to sign off on such a thing...



jokes on you if you thought mullets ever went out of style up there
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hb_pencil

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Unread post15 Jul 2019, 21:06

Corsair1963 wrote:Does anybody really believe. That Canada won't acquire the F-35 in the end....(anybody) :wink:


*puts hand up*

I don't, and I've warned numerous times that its much more likely than you all seem to believe (just like all the other things I've warned about thats come to pass.)

Here's the scary thing, Bestfighter4Canada better reflects the thought of the Canadian electorate, and some politicians than F-16.net on this issue. Let that sink in for a minute when you think that the F-35 is the assured option.

I'd urge you all to read this by Alan Stephenson - it explains why the consortium doesn't mean anything for the industrial benefits program and the government's desire. They don't care if we get a Mig-21, so long as they get the political points from the purchase.

https://www.cgai.ca/anatomy_of_a_buy_th ... for_canada

The latest concession is that “Ottawa will no longer force all bidders to commit 100 per cent of the value of the aircraft’s acquisition and sustainment on spending in Canada. Instead, manufacturers will lose points in the scoring system if they do not make this commitment.”31 This is still inadequate, particularly as the latest reshaping change increases the ITB requirement point score from 15 to 20 per cent of the bid. In a bid, every point counts and the government still fails to concede that the JSF program has already created high-end, sustainable jobs in Canada but that the consortium it belongs to cannot guarantee comprehensive economic outcomes. The current objective scoring system disadvantages the subjective nature of the consortium agreement in which projected potential economic benefits could ultimately surpass the returns required by the ITB policy. A more equitable approach would be to revise the scoring to account for the projected potential earnings from the JSF program as well as the negative repercussions from job losses when JSF contracts are inevitably suspended as a consequence of Canada no longer being a consortium partner. Given the re-emerging great-power competition, it is important to ensure that socioeconomic factors do not inordinately bias the overall cost-benefit analysis needed for Canada to receive the best product for military requirements that still meets beneficial economic returns.

Further explanation for the decision to retain the ITB requirement and preserve a large bidder pool stems from the governing party’s short-term parochial interests. In an election year, qualified suppliers will be encouraged to support economic announcements in key political ridings with the expectation that this will positively position their bid when ITBs are assessed. The promise to assemble aircraft in Canada certainly provides work-related incentives, but one must question the long-term economic benefits and export potential of building fighters in a country that refuses to sell civilian helicopters to the Philippines. Additionally, the offer of complete transfer of intellectual property for relatively unique European platforms is a double-edged sword. Without the benefit of a large pool of resources, the costs associated with developing and continually modifying the Operational Flight Program (OFP) – the embedded software that performs the functions and sub-functions necessary for aircraft weapon systems to operate – are huge. After 15 years of operation, Canada stopped producing unique OFP software for the CF-18s and purchased off-the-shelf upgrades from the U.S. Navy due to the costs associated with development and the stringent test and evaluation requirements. Getting the OFP wrong results in accidents such as the recent crash of the Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 Max. Attempting to integrate discordant equipment into unique platforms is difficult and imprecise. Modifying military requirements to meet short-term parochial socioeconomic interests and benefits can entail unintended costs and consequences.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post16 Jul 2019, 04:14

hb_pencil wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Does anybody really believe. That Canada won't acquire the F-35 in the end....(anybody) :wink:


*puts hand up*


You lost most of the members. The second you quoted........."Bestfighter4Canada" :doh:
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hb_pencil

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Unread post16 Jul 2019, 05:28

Corsair1963 wrote:
hb_pencil wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Does anybody really believe. That Canada won't acquire the F-35 in the end....(anybody) :wink:


*puts hand up*


You lost most of the members. The second you quoted........."Bestfighter4Canada" :doh:


Did I ever say that I support them? No. If anything I find them utterly reprehensible and ignorant.

However its the sad truth that Canadians have been fed a diet of information that would lead them to believe the utter BS that comes out of that site over what bonafide subject matter experts say. How many Canadians believe we should restart the Arrow? I suspect the number is enough that would make a double digit proportion of the public. It doesn't mean that I support it, but its just the reality of the Canadian debate.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post16 Jul 2019, 06:36

hb_pencil wrote:
Did I ever say that I support them? No. If anything I find them utterly reprehensible and ignorant.

However its the sad truth that Canadians have been fed a diet of information that would lead them to believe the utter BS that comes out of that site over what bonafide subject matter experts say. How many Canadians believe we should restart the Arrow? I suspect the number is enough that would make a double digit proportion of the public. It doesn't mean that I support it, but its just the reality of the Canadian debate.



Well, much will depend on the results of the forthcoming "Fighter Competition" and next Government!

Plus, while many Canadians have a misconception of the true capabilities of the F-35. From the Liberal Media and Trudeau Administration. The F-35 is racking up orders by the day and flying very successfully across the globe. Honestly, going to be harder and harder to ignore that as times goes!
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post16 Jul 2019, 12:27

If Canada wanted any other fighter than the F-35 then they would have picked it. Every single competitor to the F-35 has been flying for years. Canada could have opted to sole source them, but didn’t. When the time came to pick an interim fighter, Canada picked the one US fighter, the SH, for interoperability reasons. Then they balked at the price of the SH. Meanwhile, they continue to pay to be in the F-35 program despite all of this. If you think anything other than the F-35 is getting picked then I have some great swamp land to sell you.
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