Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
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optimist

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Unread post31 May 2019, 12:17

Personally I think it was an Aussie master stroke. We actually got hard cash, $500+ million. Otherwise, they would have went the way of the F-111.
For a price, we will dig them up again for Canada. :twisted:

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sferrin

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Unread post31 May 2019, 13:11

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


This was a masterful stroke of genius: “Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.” Poor F-35. LM didn't build any "Arctic DNA" into it. I guess this means all that cold weather testing/qualification in AK was for naught then?

What are the odds?


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F-35-alaska-snow.jpg
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luke_sandoz

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Unread post31 May 2019, 13:24

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.

Now I want to believe our Canadian neighbors are smarter than this. But given Trudeau's/Liberal Party's established antics, they may just be dumb enough to spring for the Gripen. Similar brain dead things have already happened (i.e. buying 80's retro grade F-18 Hornets)..

What are the odds?


Selling those retro Hornets was pure Aussie genius.

Not only did they avoid the $$$Millions in disposal costs, they actually got Canada to pay for six brand new shiny F-35s for the RAAF.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post31 May 2019, 19:19

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


This was a masterful stroke of genius: “Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.” Poor F-35. LM didn't build any "Arctic DNA" into it. I guess this means all that cold weather testing/qualification in AK was for naught then?

Now I want to believe our Canadian neighbors are smarter than this. But given Trudeau's/Liberal Party's established antics, they may just be dumb enough to spring for the Gripen. Similar brain dead things have already happened (i.e. buying 80's retro grade F-18 Hornets)..

What are the odds?



That ok, JSF has actual Canadian DNA built into because they've been in the program for over 20 years.

(Was F414 built with "arctic DNA?")
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pushoksti

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Unread post31 May 2019, 20:52

mixelflick wrote: (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.” ?


The Gripen comes standard with a block heater, heated seats and stick grip and winter tires.
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ricnunes

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Unread post31 May 2019, 21:15

mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


“Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.”


Well, more Saab BS :doh:

So that guy from Saab completely ignores that Canada operates their CF-18s (how about the F/A-18 "Arctic DNA"??) in the forward bases in Inuvik and Iqaluit which are located more to the north compared to those Sweden bases (at least one of them is) and moreover the Canadian bases are temporary (forward locations/bases) while those Swedish bases are permanent and as such I would say that it's much harder to operate from temporary bases compared to permanent ones, no?
He also ignores that the F-35s operates from Alaska whose conditions are pretty much similar to what the Canadian operate "up north" and by looking at the images above I would say that the F-35 DNA handles Arctic very, very well.

What worries/puzzles me the most is reading the comment sections of the link above... :roll:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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optimist

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Unread post01 Jun 2019, 09:03

ricnunes wrote:
mixelflick wrote:
luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


“Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.”


Well, more Saab BS :doh:

So that guy from Saab completely ignores that Canada operates their CF-18s (how about the F/A-18 "Arctic DNA"??) in the forward bases in Inuvik and Iqaluit which are located more to the north compared to those Sweden bases (at least one of them is) and moreover the Canadian bases are temporary (forward locations/bases) while those Swedish bases are permanent and as such I would say that it's much harder to operate from temporary bases compared to permanent ones, no?
He also ignores that the F-35s operates from Alaska whose conditions are pretty much similar to what the Canadian operate "up north" and by looking at the images above I would say that the F-35 DNA handles Arctic very, very well.

What worries/puzzles me the most is reading the comment sections of the link above... :roll:

As well as the FA-18. Let's not forget the F-16, F-15 and F-22 Arctic DNA, operating out of Alaska.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post01 Jun 2019, 10:46

At 30,000 feet, the OAT is anywhere between -40 to -70 degrees C. Planes have been designed to operate at lower temperatures for decades. The engines are more efficient at those altitudes. Anything on the ground gets de iced before it flies. Saab is just trying to market to clueless fanboys.
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ricnunes

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Unread post01 Jun 2019, 13:49

optimist wrote:As well as the FA-18. Let's not forget the F-16, F-15 and F-22 Arctic DNA, operating out of Alaska.


Absolutely!

kimjongnumbaun wrote:At 30,000 feet, the OAT is anywhere between -40 to -70 degrees C. Planes have been designed to operate at lower temperatures for decades. The engines are more efficient at those altitudes. Anything on the ground gets de iced before it flies. Saab is just trying to market to clueless fanboys.


Ditto!
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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mixelflick

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 13:35

I am still laughing at some of these comments. Arctic DNA LOL.

I wonder if it has Desert DNA, like our F-4's, F-14's, F-15's, F-16's, F-18's and F-117's demonstrated in Desert Storm? Can SAAB match that? Sounds like it'll be in the follow on to Gripen NG. Gripen DNA has a nice ring to it. Is that's what's next from SAAB?

Inquiring Middle East minds want to know :mrgreen:
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steve2267

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 17:34

Be wewy wewy kwiette... don't disturb Dolbe and the other Norwegian flyers with news that the Lightning doesn't have any Arctic DNA...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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jetblast16

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 20:50

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usnvo

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Unread post24 Jun 2019, 00:32

But what about the importance of two engines when operating over the Arctic?

How is it that the F-35 with the newest and probably most reliable single engine ever is "unsafe" according to all the INTERNET experts but the Saab, with a single F414 gets a pass?
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nathan77

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Unread post24 Jun 2019, 05:42

mixelflick wrote:I am still laughing at some of these comments. Arctic DNA LOL.

I wonder if it has Desert DNA, like our F-4's, F-14's, F-15's, F-16's, F-18's and F-117's demonstrated in Desert Storm? Can SAAB match that? Sounds like it'll be in the follow on to Gripen NG. Gripen DNA has a nice ring to it. Is that's what's next from SAAB?

Inquiring Middle East minds want to know :mrgreen:


Given the ever-increasing weight of the Gripen and its small engine and how much more power you need in hot conditions, I would have some doubts it can operate anywhere but in cold climates. So being "optimised for cold conditions" is clever marketing - it makes it sound like a feature.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post24 Jun 2019, 17:31

kimjongnumbaun wrote:At 30,000 feet, the OAT is anywhere between -40 to -70 degrees C. Planes have been designed to operate at lower temperatures for decades. The engines are more efficient at those altitudes. Anything on the ground gets de iced before it flies. Saab is just trying to market to clueless fanboys.



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