Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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spazsinbad

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Unread post11 May 2019, 06:43

I can't bear to read this stuff: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-lo ... -1.4416420 09 May 2019 Lee Berthiaume
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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marsavian

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Unread post11 May 2019, 08:43

1:48 of the associated video, "We also changed our stealth requirement to broaden the field". So how are they going to test it or they just going to believe the manufacturers ? Will we see a rank ? Enquiring minds would like to know ; F-35 vs Super Hornet vs Gripen E vs Typhoon ;).
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optimist

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Unread post11 May 2019, 12:53

F-35 - Super Hornet - Typhoon - Gripen. That was easy, what's next?
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steve2267

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Unread post11 May 2019, 14:47

marsavian wrote:1:48 of the associated video, "We also changed our stealth requirement to broaden the field". So how are they going to test it or they just going to believe the manufacturers ? Will we see a rank ? Enquiring minds would like to know ; F-35 vs Super Hornet vs Gripen E vs Typhoon ;).


Canaduhians: "We consider anything with an RCS smaller than an F-15 Eagle to be stelphee..."
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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madrat

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Unread post11 May 2019, 14:55

Let Canada buy Typhoon. They'll find out that F-35 will be necessary down the road.
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ricnunes

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Unread post12 May 2019, 18:50

optimist wrote:F-35 - Super Hornet - Typhoon - Gripen. That was easy, what's next?


Ditto!

Anyway, these latest news seem to indicate that the Canada really wants to choose the F-35.

If it was the opposite than what better opportunity would Canada have to "dodge away" from the F-35 than this? :wink:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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marsavian

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Unread post18 May 2019, 14:19

https://defence-blog.com/news/boeing-of ... a.html/amp

“Boeing guarantees it will fulfill 100 per cent of the ITB requirements, working with Canadian companies of all sizes and specialties, in all locations across our defense and commercial businesses,” said Maria Laine, vice president of International Strategic Partnerships. “We recently completed our Industrial and Regional Benefit (IRB) obligation for Canada’s initial purchase of four C-17 Globemaster III aircraft, which was just over CAD$1 billion. Not only did we meet our obligation, we exceeded it – completing it nearly one year early.”

“This is all backed by Boeing’s 100-year long partnership with Canada and an unmatched track record of meeting and exceeding industrial partnership commitments,” Laine added.

Boeing’s partnership with its Super Hornet Block III Industry Team (General Electric, Northrop Grumman and Raytheon) enhances its overall proposal to exceed ITB requirements. To date, Boeing has successfully completed CAD$9 billion in IRB commitments and generated more than CAD$3.9 billion of additional benefits under the company’s active IRB and ITB programs. There will also be opportunities for innovation and technology collaboration and export assistance for Canadian industry.

As to the Super Hornet Block III, the company’s presentation noted is the world’s most proven and affordable multi-role fighter. The Super Hornet Block III offers Canada world-class, multi-mission capabilities and is uniquely suited for challenging operating environments. It offers predictable and affordable acquisition and life-cycle cost, which is critically important for a platform that will be in service for at least 30 years, and is designed to stay ahead of future threats for decades to come.
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magitsu

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Unread post19 May 2019, 12:16

Btw, Boeing's Maria Laine is a Finn. She took part in the Finnish Hornet procurement on McDonnell's side. Laine was hired in 1993 to oversee the offset/IP part for the Finnish deal. Now above she's talking about offsets to Canada. (Obvs also leads the SH/G for Finland project.)
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luke_sandoz

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Unread post29 May 2019, 19:55

Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post29 May 2019, 21:30

"Creating high-tech jobs"... for a few years at least. After that, so sorry.

btw, "build" likely only means to "assemble" the modules built elsewhere.

Here is a sneaky way to get around offsets too. Start a local "partnership" for the assembly. All purchase orders go through the "partnership" so it's all an offset. The Saab-side of the partnership orders all the modules from the parent company so that no profit is made by the "partnership". No profit means no income or corporate taxes for the "partnership".

In the end, the only real offset is the local labor and will be a fraction of what was promised.

Now, compare that to the way the JPO has set up the JSF program. Partner nation local businesses build the parts, at a profit, and pay taxes.. for decades. Their employees can count on very long term contracts instead of short-term, flash-in-the-pan jobs that Saab will generate.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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optimist

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Unread post29 May 2019, 23:00

If they are considering to build. Is it too soon to mention the arrow again and put up pictures?
Local jobs and the money stays in Canada
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post29 May 2019, 23:13

So you are just tossing any chance of actually being affordable or competitive on the global market?
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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optimist

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Unread post29 May 2019, 23:51

SpudmanWP wrote:So you are just tossing any chance of actually being affordable or competitive on the global market?

I'm confused here. Are you talking about the Arrow or the Gripen :mrgreen:
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post29 May 2019, 23:55

yes
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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mixelflick

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Unread post31 May 2019, 12:06

luke_sandoz wrote:Let the games begin!

If you can’t compete on merit, capability or price, you go for the political bribe.


https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursui ... -in-canada


This was a masterful stroke of genius: “Sweden has air force bases in what you call the far North,” he added. “We operate there daily. (The Gripen) has Arctic DNA built into it.” Poor F-35. LM didn't build any "Arctic DNA" into it. I guess this means all that cold weather testing/qualification in AK was for naught then?

Now I want to believe our Canadian neighbors are smarter than this. But given Trudeau's/Liberal Party's established antics, they may just be dumb enough to spring for the Gripen. Similar brain dead things have already happened (i.e. buying 80's retro grade F-18 Hornets)..

What are the odds?
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