Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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weasel1962

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Unread post22 Feb 2019, 02:02

mixelflick wrote:If Canada goes to war with A's and they fare well, what are the repercussions? It might mean legislators in the US start demanding we raid the boneyard, and go "retro". If McCain were still around, I swear he'd run with the idea...


"Retro" is what the USMC will go to war with today....I think the state of the legacy hornet fleet (incl boneyard) is well known at least to those living south of the border.
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ricnunes

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Unread post22 Feb 2019, 11:40

lbk000 wrote:IIRC existing Canadian F/A-18's are A's upgraded to C standard ("A++") so I imagine this isn't as scandalous as it sounds? It might actually be more convenient for them as they would already have the conversion parts.


Yes, their are. The Canadian F/A-18's (-A variant) received the ECP 583 upgrade which puts them basically on the same/similar standard as the F/A-18C.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/news/article ... n/hnps1ums
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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mixelflick

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Unread post23 Feb 2019, 12:49

Lovely!

So they're retro 1987 models, not 1982 LOL.

But the previous poster's point about the Marines flying basically the same model is a good one. So sad. How in the hell did Marine Corp aviation get in such a pickle? Probably the same way the Air Force did: Fly the wings off your fleet for 20 years and fail to have a new type enter service.

Sure, they were investing in the F-35. But it was a long, long developmental progress and if I'm not mistaken, the B was almost cancelled. Glad they stuck with it, because it's increasingly sought after by many countries. England opted for it, the Japanese now want it for its pocket carriers and both Israel and Singapore have expressed interest too.

In the SCS, it's good insurance should the Chinese rain down IRBM's onto American air bases..
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madrat

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Unread post23 Feb 2019, 17:17

iIRC both Clinton and Obama were stalling new purchases.
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mixelflick

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Unread post25 Feb 2019, 14:25

madrat wrote:iIRC both Clinton and Obama were stalling new purchases.


This is (one) of many reasons I rarely vote for Democrats/Liberals - they're weak on defense. Perhaps not all of them, but every President since Carter seems to not value our military. The funding dries up. Force structure (and readiness) shrink. And our foreign policy loses its testicles.

Obama didn't involve Congress when giving billions of our tax money to Iran. But when Trump does it to pay for the wall, he's crucified for it. The double standard in the media is on full display. They don't even try to appear objective anymore. In fact, the mainstream media is simply an extension of the Democrat party. Nothing more, nothing less.

Reagan and Trump don't take any sh!t, from anybody. Get in line or "all options are on the table". When Quadaffi started acting up, Reagan rained 2,000lb bombs on his head. He got the message. For a lot of these foreign dictators, it's the only language they understand...
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steve2267

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Unread post04 Mar 2019, 04:13

Billie Flynn gets it (of course). Hopefully some up there in Canaduh still pay attention to their native son, test pilot extraordinaire:

Billie Flynn tweeted:

"For years I have taught pilots never to do math in public if more complicated than Saskatchewan High School Farm Boy Math. So $1.15B / 18 = $64M per used Aussie F-18s. I first flew the CF-18 more than 35 years ago. Seems like these jets cost more now than when they were brand new"

https://twitter.com/billieflynn/status/1102371636609724422
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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weasel1962

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Unread post04 Mar 2019, 04:57

Wasn't it A$95m for the lot?
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spazsinbad

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Unread post04 Mar 2019, 05:14

:devil: Like the man said: DoanDoMath in Public otherwise MathDebate ensues. Where did $1.15 Bill enter? Weird Science eh.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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weasel1962

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Unread post04 Mar 2019, 06:12

Its always convenient (and sometimes correct) to blame the auditors (not forgetting the media folk who then twists what they don't understand into something else).

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/Engli ... 43201.html

In December 2017, the government announced its intention to buy 18 Australian F/A-18s and spare parts. National Defence determined that the Australian F/A-18s, which are similar in age and design to the CF-18s, could be modified to be nearly identical to Canada’s fleet. The total estimated cost was CAN$471 million to buy and modify these aircraft and an additional CAN$558 million to operate them until 2032.


I think some folks misread it to mean the Canadians actually modified the aircraft, which they did not appear to do. Thank the auditors for that confusion. The actual purchase cost was "up to" A$95million. As to operational cost, that would have to apply so long as a plane is flying. The only way to avoid that cost is not to have any aircraft.
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steve2267

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Unread post04 Mar 2019, 06:40

weasel1962 wrote:Wasn't it A$95m for the lot?


I have no idea. And I'm not trying to do any maths... I'm just quoting Billie Flynn's tweet.... :mrgreen:

(Perhaps $1.15B comes from total purchase from Aussieland + costs of all modifications / re-work that will be required?)
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post04 Mar 2019, 06:43

steve2267 wrote:
weasel1962 wrote:Wasn't it A$95m for the lot?


I have no idea. And I'm not trying to do any maths... I'm just quoting Billie Flynn's tweet.... :mrgreen:

(Perhaps $1.15B comes from total purchase from Aussieland + costs of all modifications / re-work that will be required?)

Somewhere lately in this thread the total for everything was around 500 million IIRC. See page 342 this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24027&p=411718&hilit=project#p411718
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post04 Mar 2019, 06:56

Hey... again... I'm just quoting Billie. He be a good ol' boy test pilot. He must know something, right? :mrgreen:

:devil:
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post04 Mar 2019, 07:26

I'm just quoting a quote quote quoth I - by this stage SEVERELY disinterested. Canadian Govmnt has caused me enuf grief.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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XanderCrews

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Unread post08 Mar 2019, 05:34

Think all the well known Aussies that have been been bashing the program all these years will deduct the Canadian money in all their little cost analyses?

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Unread post08 Mar 2019, 07:43

Normally we have to pay to scrap our old stuff or give it away to indo. I still don't think it will stop clown club for walking around the desert with metal detectors. Looking for the buried f-111s, to make a 6th gen out of them. :mrgreen:
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