Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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wrightwing

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Unread post05 Jan 2019, 17:49

ricnunes wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Rather than the meteor, why not go full retro with the AIM-7D and AIM-9B? :mrgreen:


If the objective is going full retro why not go with the AIR-2 Genie - That would certainly give a "big bang for the buck", literally speaking :mrgreen:

And I'm sure that RCAF could find and eventually bring back someone from retirement which had some experience with the Genie.

How about upgraded Genies and Falcons, with modern propulsion, sensors, datalinks, etc...
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gideonic

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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 17:39

It seems that some guy has managed to successfully graduate the University of Calgary (School of Public Policy) with a theses about Gripen being the best fighter for Canada :shock:

https://prism.ucalgary.ca/handle/1880/1 ... ynFZMLBkvg

Didn't have time to look through it thoroughly, but sure enough on page 52 (48 by the document numbering) the famous 2012 Janes study on flight hours is cited (the one where Gripen is 4.5 times cheaper). I guess the rest is of similar value ... I wonder what grade he got?

EDIT:
And sure enough bestfighter4canada is having a field day:
http://bestfighter4canada.blogspot.com/ ... qus_thread
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ricnunes

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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 22:57

gideonic wrote:I wonder what grade he got?


If the jury knows the very basics of modern military aircraft and if the world was a fair place then his grade should be:

F----- (4.5 minuses which is directly related to the BS that the Gripen is 4.5 times cheaper :roll: )
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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element1loop

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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 00:34

gideonic wrote:I wonder what grade he got?


"Your course result is: Not Yet Satisfactory"
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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lipovitand

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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 18:43

I was hanging around BF4C facebook for the past year.

Holy smokes man, its like air softer telling soldier what gear they should use. Trying to get a decent discussion going on, and boom, F35 hater shows up with their little idea that it somehow it never worked.

I read most of his thesis, I dont know how well it reflect the RACF, but its bias toward going cheap.
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hb_pencil

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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 20:20

lipovitand wrote:
I read most of his thesis, I dont know how well it reflect the RACF, but its bias toward going cheap.


Its pretty bad. Its basically the greatest hits of Saab's misleading talking points wrapped up in an academic paper. His discussion on modern combat operations is completely off base, citing our missions in the Gulf War (30 years ago?) and Libya, but not Eastern Europe or Syria, where fifth generation aircraft are playing a greater role, as are advanced Russian AD systems. Yet Canadians are not informed, and they have given this some credence.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 20:28

The funny thing is that the RCAF is having trouble keeping pilots because the government doesn't adequately fund them. I've spoken with pilots in the RCAF who've said they intend to leave if they don't get the F-35. Apparently, they're not keen on going into combat in anything less than a 5th gen. This has been reported from other sources that RCAF pilots are heading over to Australia to fly their F-35s.
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hb_pencil

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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 22:38

kimjongnumbaun wrote:The funny thing is that the RCAF is having trouble keeping pilots because the government doesn't adequately fund them. I've spoken with pilots in the RCAF who've said they intend to leave if they don't get the F-35. Apparently, they're not keen on going into combat in anything less than a 5th gen. This has been reported from other sources that RCAF pilots are heading over to Australia to fly their F-35s.


You don't get how Saabs super-dooper ECM and radar makes that all irrelevant.


The only reason why Saab is in this competition is to get corporate intelligence on Western RFP processes and Canada's system. In reality they can't even meet some of the basic requirements over range.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 00:13

Most Canadians will gobble it up because they don’t know anything. I’m curious if any members of the RCAF will come out and call out the literature for its glaring issues.
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lipovitand

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 00:39

kimjongnumbaun wrote:Most Canadians will gobble it up because they don’t know anything. I’m curious if any members of the RCAF will come out and call out the literature for its glaring issues.


Indeed. I doubt they will RCAF guys will have time to come out and posts on facebook, they're pretty busy lol. Reading BF4C is like listening to flat earther... like holy crap man. :bang:
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pushoksti

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 03:56

kimjongnumbaun wrote:Most Canadians will gobble it up because they don’t know anything. I’m curious if any members of the RCAF will come out and call out the literature for its glaring issues.


Having been around the fighters for over a decade, I can 100% confirm all those BF4C commentators are just fanbois with no idea how we operate. Just reading their comments on how we should do business in the north blows my mind. They really have no clue.
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mixelflick

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 15:23

So Canada is going through with the 80's retro Aussie Hornet buy? This just keeps getting more bizarre...

Trudeau/Canada has so mismanaged this process it's now the wold's leading comedy of errors. Only the Indians come close. However, the Indians at least have some modern and capable combat aircraft to show for their efforts (SU-30MKI, Rafale, even a home grown Tejas).

If looking for 2nd hand me downs, why not raid the boneyard and pick up some used F-15's? At least then their air policing duties would be squared away. Two engines, big radar, 8 AAM loadout. Loads more capable than any legacy F-18. They really should have had the foresight to pick up the Navy's retiring F-14D's and associated phoenix missiles. OK, labor intensive. But at least Canada would have a fighter capable of defending the vast reaches of its sovereign territory.

As it stands, they have no plans on being a day 1 player in any modern air war. The S-300/400's proliferating are going to make sure of that, since they've apparently turned their noses up at the F-35. Sad really, I feel bad for their pilots...
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ricnunes

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 17:57

mixelflick wrote:This just keeps getting more bizarre...


While being "bizarre" and outright plain stupid, this move can easily be explained (IMO):
- The Trudeau government realized that the best choice for Canada - the REAL Best Fighter For Canada (not to be confused with an absurd and "vomiting" site of the same name) is BY FAR the F-35.
However as I believe we all know, Trudeau promised "not to buy" the F-35.
Of course that this ridiculous promise was only related to the current term and even if he wins the next elections (I hope NOT), his government will end up buying the F-35 but again, only in the NEXT term (after 2019) and NOT on this current one.
- The above means that the current Canadian CF-18 (read: Legacy Hornet) fleet must be flying for longer than expected and beyond the CF-18 expected lifetime. This means that more CF-18s - a.k.a Legacy Hornets - must be purchased so that the entire Hornet/CF-18 is able to fly for any time longer. Hence the used/2nd hand Australian Hornet purchase.

Actually, there is nothing special about this IMO, besides being a retarded option instead of buying F-35 straight away. But all in the name of saving "pretty boy" Trudeau's face :roll:

Your "used F-15's solution" (or any other 2nd hand aircraft for that matter) doesn't match the strategy above.
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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kimjongnumbaun

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 18:14

Agreed ricnunes. If Canada wanted to purchase anything other than the F-35, they would have done it by now. Instead they are holding an open competition, which includes the F-35. And we all know what the competition will say.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 20:03

Canberra confirms sale of 25 Hornets to Canada at A$95 million
09 Jan 2019 Greg Waldron

"Australia’s Department of Defence (DoD) has confirmed a deal to sell Canada up to 25 surplus Boeing F/A-18 A/B “Classic” Hornet fighters. “Defence can confirm that under the current arrangement, if the full scope of aircraft is acquired, the sale price is worth up to A$95 million ($68 million) and includes a range of spare parts and equipment as agreed with Canada,” says the DoD.

“A purchasing agreement is in place with the transfer of assets occurring over the next three years.” The statement follows media reports in Canada that the deal, first mooted in 2017, has been confirmed by Ottawa. The plan calls for 18 airframes to serve as combat assets with the Royal Canadian Air Force, with seven used for spare parts and testing....

...A report in the Ottawa Citizen quotes Patt Finn, assistant deputy minister for materiel at the Department of National Defence, as saying that the RAAF fighters will receive different ejection seats and software, making them “indistinguishable” from RCAF Hornets...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -a-454867/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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