Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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spazsinbad

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Unread post06 Nov 2018, 05:05

:mrgreen: I like this comment: "Even the woman sits more manly than you [True Doh]." :roll:
Last edited by spazsinbad on 06 Nov 2018, 14:59, edited 2 times in total.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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XanderCrews

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Unread post06 Nov 2018, 06:40

Corsair1963 wrote:WOW

@JustinTrudeau

Did you know there are 1500 Canadian companies in @LockheedMartin’s supply chain? The aerospace industry provides good, middle class jobs across this country, and Marillyn Hewson’s leadership has been invaluable.
DrR_zBaXcAAAJxk.jpg


https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/statu ... 1673832450



LOL Yes Justine, some of us have been shouting that from the bloody rooftops. :doh:


:drool: But muh Gripen NG full shared Source code! :drool:
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popcorn

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Unread post06 Nov 2018, 08:53

Trudeau finding religion?
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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marsavian

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Unread post06 Nov 2018, 14:11

popcorn wrote:Trudeau finding religion?


No, just usual political shifting due to events. F-18 not as cheap as he thought and F-35 not as expensive as he thought plus now it's in settled initial production status. Boeing also a vicious competitor to local industry so now F-35 could be as technically bad as he and its loyal critics have originally claimed but which it isn't in reality and he would still pick it now due to price and offset jobs. Canada is getting 88 Block 4 F-35s.
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sferrin

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Unread post06 Nov 2018, 14:18

popcorn wrote:Trudeau finding religion?


Finding religion? Based on his pose there in the picture I'd have expected, "coming out of the closet". :wink:
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ricnunes

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Unread post06 Nov 2018, 17:22

spazsinbad wrote::mrgreen: I like this comment: "Even the woman sits more manly than you [True Doh]." :roll:



LOL, I also liked the following comment:
Too bad they aren’t building brand new fighter jets for the Canadian military eh? You could have really helped the 1500 companies you just described. Instead you bought 30 year old pieces of trash a third world country wouldn’t even buy for $1.


:mrgreen:


@Corsair1963,
Great find there (about the tweet) :wink:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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luke_sandoz

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Unread post06 Nov 2018, 17:58

Corsair1963 wrote:WOW


TWITTER


Follow Follow @JustinTrudeau



Did you know there are 1500 Canadian companies in @LockheedMartin’s supply chain? The aerospace industry provides good, middle class jobs across this country, and Marillyn Hewson’s leadership has been invaluable.

The attachment DrR_zBaXcAAAJxk.jpg is no longer available


https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/statu ... 1673832450


Maybe she is just reminding him how stupid he was to actually believe the bullshit fed to him and his equally ignorant advisers by Boeing and their lobbyists that the Super Hornet could be purchased and kitted out at at price less than simply buying F-35s.

F-35 karma is still karma.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post06 Nov 2018, 23:19

The one nice thing about the invented Fighter Gap is it put Canada on the hook for more F-35s in the long run.

65? how about 88?!


Was Trudeau just only telling part of the story when he said he wasn't going to buy the F-35 when it was at 65 units?

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luke_sandoz

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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 01:48

Oh!

Now 4.

Saab must be wondering what to do as well.
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hythelday

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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 02:16

Maybe Dassault didn't get the perfect balance between "active stealth" and real VLO right after all?

But then again the competition was rigged from the beginning!
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 03:23

Honestly, shocking that Dassault pulled out.... :?
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citanon

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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 08:21

The posters on BF4C actually dug up some good information:

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2018/ ... -KRp5NKiUk

Dassault faced several significant challenges in meeting Canada's requirements for a new fighter, said defence analyst David Perry of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute, and while they weren't insurmountable, they would have cost time and money.

Those challenges included meeting those Five-Eyes intelligence-sharing requirements, which Perry said put Dassault at a distinct disadvantage in the competition when compared to Lockheed Martin, Boeing and, to a certain degree, Airbus.

"For any of the non-American companies, solving the Five-Eyes interoperability issues is going to be challenging," he said, noting that the U.S. in particular is very sensitive about data-sharing.

"And it costs companies a lot of money to mount and pursue bids. So if they think at this point in time that it's not a realistic prospect, then pulling out is pretty understandable."

That could explain why Dassault never established a strong presence in Canada during the many years when it was trying to sell the Rafale as a replacement for the CF-18, he added.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... tition-to/

Federal officials and experts had already pointed out the challenges facing European companies in terms of winning the contract.

“Whatever aircraft we obtain has to be fully, seamlessly interoperable at the highest levels with the American Air Force and the rest of the U.S. defence establishment, which is going to be tougher for Europeans to do than it would be for the Americans," said Dave Perry, vice-president of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute. “There’s a way to do that, but it would also imply additional cost and integration risk.”


The federal government announced last month that it was giving six weeks to interested bidders to provide comment on a draft request for proposals (RFP), which lays out the requirements for the fighter jets.

In a briefing, federal officials said the government was willing to give European bidders additional leeway to meet mandatory requirements related to NORAD. In particular, the requirements for secure communications between Canadian and American aircraft and other military assets were modified to give all potential bidders additional time to meet them.

“We obviously have NATO and NORAD commitments, with NORAD probably being the bigger one, which means we have significant security requirements that are Canada-U.S.,” said Pat Finn, the assistant deputy minister in charge of procurement at the Department of National Defence.


And from Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/article/canada- ... FL2N1XI07R

France does not belong to the so-called Five Eyes group of nations that share top secret intelligence - Canada, the United States, Britain, Australia and New Zealand. This would have made operating with U.S. forces complicated, the sources said.

Sweden’s Saab AB, one of the four remaining contenders, faces the same challenge with its Gripen jet.

The Airbus consortium, makers of the Eurofighter, includes Five Eyes member Britain
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juretrn

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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 09:08

ChippyHo wrote:
juretrn wrote: I'm sure the ancient Aussie F-18s will be fine for a few more decades.


Ya - and once we are done we can pass them down to Slovenia!

If those F-18s are lucky they'll be out of service somewhere around 2100 :doh:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 09:10

So, really comes down to Super Hornet, Typhoon, and Lightning.
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hythelday

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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 09:41

How is Five Eyes and intelligence sharing relevant to fighters? US would not accept pictures made by Talios TGP?
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