Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 01 Jun 2018, 11:48

Just explain further what you are on about with this 'bogged down B/S'. A lot of data will be common - these labs are not 're-inventing the wheel' so to speak. You seem to imagine something that I'm not & neither are the countries involved. Just because YOU don't know what would be classified information there is no need for you to SPECULATE with your FUD.

magitsu · by **magitsu** » 01 Jun 2018, 12:13

If that is FUD then what isn't? This forum is about speculating things. We have no specific data about anything, just vague things in public that need to be individually considered.

Are you really implying that things of this magnitude shouldn't be considered? One lab goes for at least 150 million, since that was paid to LM alone and if there is need for other labs between rather small set of entrants like Italy+Norway, it will represent a large share of the total acquisition cost.

viewtopic.php?p=289512#p289512 The author of the post seems familiar. You have been interested in this, so why are you now hostile to talking about it? The topic is not even something as unimaginative as whether there is an on/off switch like back then.

Or course we can always go back to arguing about minutiae like whether the Israeli F-35 photo above Beirut had Luneburg lenses on or not..- :doh:

tl:dr Just looking into plausible reasons why there are so many labs, especially the Italian-Norwegian one. The ACURL is larger and the commonwealth cooperation makes sense. Then there are plenty of countries that have nothing.
Basically I'm trying to gauge whether there could be a need for similar, very expensive looking solutions like the Italian-Norwegian lab. If there are, it might lower the amount of air frames getting bought because the cost is so big.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 01 Jun 2018, 12:31

What information do you have about labs that is not otherwise on this forum (which is not much). Yes why speculate. There is plenty of real information on this forum about the F-35 which provides discussion material. What do you bring?

magitsu · by **magitsu** » 01 Jun 2018, 12:40

spazsinbad wrote:What do you bring?

Just an observation about a possible unacknowledged reason that might lead to lower amount of planes getting bought. Why are you so confrontational?

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 01 Jun 2018, 12:44

Why do you make stuff up then ignore requests to provide evidence for your claims? I'm ignoring your posts here now - I'm off to get some rest.

magitsu · by **magitsu** » 01 Jun 2018, 12:56

Fair enough. I'm not sure whether it's possible to provide the kind of evidence you are looking for. The whole idea was based on perceived asymmetry between two small partners apparently needing their own lab vs. plan to handle much more numerous FMS customers in one, as is stated in your quote. If the reason was the handling of nationally sensitive info, then it probably isn't far fetched to consider that it might apply to these FMS customers too. If it was plausibly the reason for No-It lab, there might be new similar solutions ahead instead of the all FMS in one plan. That could mean less F-35 frames getting bought. Which is certainly worth speculating, since it affects the whole project.

spazsinbad wrote:"...In the US a software reprogramming laboratory is also under construction, which will support JSF aircraft from Australia, Canada (should Canada eventually purchase the F-35) and the UK. Known as the ACURL (Australia, Canada, UK Reprogramming Laboratory), the facility is adjacent to a similar USRL (for the US Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps) and NIRL (for Norway and Italy). A further reprogramming laboratory will support the remaining partner nations and FMS customers at NAS Point Mugu in California…"

kimjongnumbaun · by **kimjongnumbaun** » 01 Jun 2018, 19:01

Australia, US, UK, NZ, and Canada are part of the five eyes program and are privy to more intelligence than other NATO nations. I've been plenty of classified briefings where our NATO partners were asked to leave the room but the Canadian and Australian guys got to stay because of the Five Eyes.

That being said, separate programming labs are going to be for partner nations who either aren't allowed to have access to certain information, or they have to program their aircraft to meet specific goals. For example, Italy may have some super duper missile that the US doesn't carry, so the Italy lab would be responsible for programming it into the F-35.

In regards to threat libraries, most of that will be the same across the board. We have plenty of data on the older Russian ADA systems.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 05 Jun 2018, 03:43

First 2 Australian fighter jets to be in Canada next year but no word yet on final cost

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: June 4, 2018

Procurement minister Carla Qualtrough said at the CANSEC military equipment trade show last week that she expects the first two used Australian F-18s to be delivered in 2019.

But she told journalists that she still doesn’t have a final cost for taxpayers for the deal of the 18 used aircraft, spares, weapons and other related equipment. The Liberal government has set aside up to $500 million for the purchase.

Qualtrough said negotiations are still ongoing so she won’t have a final tally until later.

Pat Finn, the Department of National Defence’s assistant deputy minister of materiel, recently noted that the Canadian government has received what’s called a letter of cost proposal on the proposed sale. He expects that a deal will be in place by the end of the year with deliveries to begin in the summer of 2019.

The Liberal government originally planned for the arrival of the first used aircraft in January 2019.............

http://leaderpost.com/news/national/def ... a8c625bbd6

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 14 Jun 2018, 22:20

This news snippet on front page but link has nothing becuz SUBSCRIPTION so there is just this and a graphic:

Canada increases Hornet buy http://www.australiandefence.com.au/
14 Jun 2018 Julian Kerr ADM

"Canada has increased the number of F/A-18 A/B ‘classic’ Hornet fighters it wants to buy from Australia from 18 to 25, a Senate Estimates hearing has been told."

Source: http://www.australiandefence.com.au/new ... hornet-buy

madrat · by **madrat** » 15 Jun 2018, 02:16

Say that somehow Canada is able to SLEP the A/B models, you literally have no headroom for expanding the performance in any meaningful way and have sunk all the seed money for F-35A. It sounds painfully like something John McCain would stump as the only option...

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 15 Jun 2018, 04:12

We don't know condition of RAAF Hornets however probably the worst will be destined for Canadian/Oz Hornet Parts Bin.

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 15 Jun 2018, 05:57

The Australians have been pretty publicly transparent about the state of their hornet fleet

"htps://www.anao.gov.au/work/performance-audit/management-australias-air-combat-capability-—-fa-18-hornet-and-super-hornet"

https://www.anao.gov.au/sites/g/files/n ... No%205.pdf

The Canadians cannot complain about buying lemons when they have been clearly labelled as lemons.

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 15 Jun 2018, 06:02

Hey, Canada! We here in Finland have latest F/A-18C/Ds in excellent condition, although with some high mileage... Maybe we can give them to you and replace you in the F-35 program...

magitsu · by **magitsu** » 15 Jun 2018, 15:10

If you can only wait until 2023, they are yours for practically free. We'll even reimburse the F-35 partnership costs. Delivery starting from 2024-5. Never been life-extended before, so they are good for that.

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 15 Jun 2018, 15:42

Be nice guys, after Trump tariffs chewed up Trudeau, they may not even be able to afford pina coladas. Last I heard, was there a ban on high sugar or high alcohol drinks from convenience stores?

There's still Kuwaiti F-18s sitting on the wings. Clearly waiting.