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Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 12 Feb 2020, 09:50
by spazsinbad
OMG " afterburners..." NOT again. Will this ever end? HELLS BELLS [hell's bells. An exclamation of frustration or surprise. A shortened form of the phrase "hell's bells and buckets of blood."]

AC/DC - Hells Bells (Official Music Video)

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 12 Feb 2020, 09:57
by weasel1962
I suppose an afterburner would not be hot after the engine is switched off, and cooled.....

Remember some of these navy folks have never operated a jet fighter...ever. No afterburners on helos (at least not yet).

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 12 Feb 2020, 10:03
by spazsinbad
weasel1962 wrote:I suppose an afterburner would not be hot after the engine is switched off, and cooled..... Remember some of these navy folks have never operated a jet fighter...ever. No afterburners on helos (at least not yet).

:shock: :roll: :devil: Our WESSEX 31Bs [WETTEX] had AFTER BURNERS & even BEFORE BURNERS - this pic proves it. :doh: :twisted: :shock:

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 12 Feb 2020, 10:24
by weasel1962
I would stand corrected if I had not fallen off my chair after seeing the pic... :shock:

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 12 Feb 2020, 10:28
by spazsinbad
The WETTEX suffered from WET STARTS - the pilots suffered from SKID Marks in their DERPANTS. :mrgreen: VAMPIRES every now and then had a WETStart especially when the wind was up their BTM (recall the F-35A fire with such condition).

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 12 Feb 2020, 21:20
by spazsinbad
Singapore F-35 Buy Moves Closer
11 Feb 2020 Chris Pocock

"...Singapore joined the F-35 program in 2003, paying to become a Security Cooperation Participant. This enabled it to receive detailed program status and classified performance information. But it was not until March last year that Defence Minister Dr. Ng Eng Hen announced that it would purchase four jets “for evaluation,” with an option for eight more. A letter of interest followed, and the purchase moved forward last month when the Pentagon sent the formal notification of the proposed sale to Congress.

The notification confirmed for the first time that the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) had requested the F-35B Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) version.... is entirely possible that the RSAF will have some or all of its F-35 pilots trained for carrier operations. They will most likely undertake flight training at the USMC air station Beaufort, South Carolina, where all prospective F-35B pilots go. They might then practice such operations closer to home because the USMC’s assault ships sometimes visit Singapore.

The notification to Congress estimated the total procurement cost at $2.75 billion. That includes all 12 jets as well as the substantial package required to acquire the sophisticated fifth-generation capability. The sale will include 13 Pratt & Whitney F135 engines; weapons employment capability; the fighter’s command, control, communication, computers, and intelligence/communication, navigation, and identification (C4I/CNI) system; spare and repair parts; support and test equipment; training; the autonomic logistics information system (ALIS); and U.S. government and contractor support services.

Defence Minister Ng said last March that the unit price of an F-35 was similar to that of Singapore’s F-15SG Strike Eagles. And the total cost of ownership, including through-life maintenance, was close to that for the Boeing jet, he added.

One interesting aspect of this sale is the extent to which Singapore might be allowed to modify and support the jets to its own requirements. The U.S. government allowed the RSAF to add an Israeli mission computer and electronic warfare system to its F-16s. It also allowed the RSAF to write its own operational flight programs (OFPs).

The notification states that “electronic warfare systems” are included in the sale, plus access to the “reprogramming center.” As a Security Cooperation Participant already, the RSAF will be aware of some problems that have arisen with the F-35 OFPs, such as a failure to synchronize those in the jets with those in the simulators. There have also been delays in updating the mission data files, a library of enemy threats to the aircraft that feed into the fighter’s advanced sensor recognition and data fusion capability.

Israel has been allowed to add some unique avionics and electronic warfare systems to its F-35s. A source in the U.S. with access to the program told AIN that it was possible that Singapore would be allowed similar privileges."

Source: ... ves-closer

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 13 Feb 2020, 01:09
by weasel1962
The MDE component of the notice is $1.625b and the remainder being....non-MDE. This equates to ~$135m per plane (frame + engine).

In Poland's buy, the MDE was $4.1b in the notice which would give a guide post on what the Singapore contract value would roughly be...

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 20:06
by spazsinbad
F-35 gets thumbs up from Singapore’s air chief
14 Feb 2020 Mike Yeo

"SINGAPORE — Singapore’s Air Force chief has given his vote of confidence in the Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jet amid the country’s efforts to buy new fifth-generation aircraft. However, he acknowledged that challenges still remain in the acquisition process, particularly in regard to logistics.

In a written reply to questions by the media, Maj. Gen. Kelvin Khong said the Republic of Singapore Air Force “is convinced that the F-35 program has matured to a stage where confidence in the delivery of a cost-effective 5th Generation is high.”

He added that based on the service’s own estimates, “the total cost of acquiring and operating an F-35B over the life of the aircraft would be comparable” to that of Singapore’s existing Boeing F-15SGs.

He also revealed that the first four F-35Bs that Singapore is looking to buy would be located in the continental United States for initial training and testing, with ongoing discussions taking place between both countries for more specific locations. The testing and evaluation phase will include the ability to integrate the F-35 into the RSAF’s own war-fighting systems.

Khong said that although most of the F-35’s developmental issues have been resolved in recent years, “some work still needs to be done on issues like logistics sustainment for the aircraft,” describing an August 2019 article in the New York Times Magazine by Defense News’ air warfare reporter, Valerie Insinna, as a “fair representation of the F-35 program.”

Khong also stressed that Singapore chose to go after the F-35 following “careful consideration.” [WOW all the other buyers just kicked the freakin' tyres - no exaggeration there at all] He noted that the country had been a security cooperation participant in the F-35 program since 2004 “to better understand the program’s development,” during which Singapore had access to high-fidelity simulators...."

Source: ... air-chief/

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 18 Feb 2020, 20:15
by spazsinbad
Singapore air force confronts rapidly changing world
18 Feb 2020 Greg Waldron

"The Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) is committed to continually updating its combat power, with efficiency as a focus, given the small nation’s manpower limitations....

...In regard to traditional fixed-wing aircraft, he notes that Singapore’s long-awaited decision to order the F-35B was predicated on the growing maturity of the platform. While challenges remain around areas such as the aircraft’s logistics system, the RSAF estimates that the acquisition and operating costs will be equivalent to those of the F-15SG.

Initially Singapore will receive four examples out of a total possible commitment for 12. The first four aircraft will be deployed not in Singapore, but in the “continental USA” for evaluation work. Kong added that the type’s short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) capability is important given land limitations in Singapore...."

Source: ... 98.article

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 19 Feb 2020, 00:26
by weasel1962
Yesterday was Singapore's budget which saw the defense budget hiked up to ~US$11b.

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 18:31
by spazsinbad
RSAF Chief: Upgraded F-16s, Maritime Patrol and New UAVs
19 Feb 2020 Chen Chuanren

"...Regarding the F-35B, Singapore is awaiting the letter of offer and acceptance from the U.S. government. The first four jets will stay in CONUS for initial training and testing, and a suitable location for training is under discussion.

With the exception of logistical sustainment, Khong said that most of the technical issues are resolved and that the price of the aircraft has fallen 40 percent since 2010. The ministry estimates that the costs of procuring and operating the F-35B are comparable to those of the F-15SG, which the RSAF has flown for more than 10 years."

Source: ... d-new-uavs

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 02 Mar 2020, 09:30
by weasel1962 ... e-12490698

Dr Ng also provided an update on Singapore’s purchase of four F-35B fighter jets, with an option for eight more, for training and in-depth evaluation.

The minister said MINDEF is in the final stages of the purchase after getting the green light from the US government and Congress, adding that he hopes to take delivery of the jets around 2026.

“The F-35B performed in the recent Singapore Airshow and its ability to swivel 360 degrees was simply, as some people said, awesome,” he stated. “But it can have a full suite of sensors and fighting capabilities.”

2026 delivery suggests lot 18 order (~Blk 4.3).

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 03 Mar 2020, 13:25
by mixelflick
These B's will make an interesting foil to Malaysian Flankers, which are some of the most capable in the world. Looks like Singapore just scored a leg up on everyone else in their neck of the woods...

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 04 Mar 2020, 06:50
by weasel1962
I think the acquisition looks beyond Malaysian Flankers.

The flankers are notoriously difficult to maintain. At one stage the defence minister acknowledged that less than 5 out of a squadron of 18 is serviceable. It does not have AEW support. Worse, unlike the Indian Su-30MKIs, the MkM has western avionics onboard that the Russians are not in a position to maintain. Funds to maintain are hard-pressed to find. Also, the equipment onboard are aging with a radar that is non-AESA and an older Damocles targeting pod.

The Malaysians hope to get these SLEP-ed to last til 2035 so these aren’t likely to be the main threat post 2030 when the full fleet of F-35Bs come online. Balakot also demonstrated that legacies are still able to handle sukhois. Nevertheless, with Malaysian politics being potentially destabilising (and the spectre of an Islamic government growing more likely), the buy has eyes on future threat calculations.

What is still a pillar of Singapore defence calculation is the 5 power defence arrangement (FPDA), the only alliance to which Singapore is a treaty ally. The inter-operability between RAF F-35B, RAAF F-35As and RSAF F-35Bs will be useful to demonstrate effective deterrence in the region. Can’t think of any other time that the 3 would operate similar aircraft.

Re: Singapore F-35 selection

Unread postPosted: 04 Mar 2020, 15:43
by mixelflick
You may be right, at least insofar as US legacy birds handling Malaysia's Flankers...

Spoke with an ANG F-15C pilot once and asked him how they did in DACT. He got a big smile on his face and said something like they won 77 or more out of 100 engagements. I'm sure pilot training means a lot, but he had absolutely no reservations about fighting Flankers. I found that interesting...