Singapore F-35 selection

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spazsinbad

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Unread post12 Jan 2020, 18:36

The INTENSELY HEATED B/S DETECTOR STINKS IF OVERHEATED needing SPESHUL (as in any concrete is tailored for purpose).
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Corsair1963

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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 03:53

Clearly, these 12 F-35B's are just the first batch of Lightning II's for the SAF. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if additional orders aren't placed for at least some F-35A's.
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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 04:16

Text sent via e-mail from STRAITS TIMES recently - no other info except JMMS will be larger than first mooted years ago.
“...As Lockheed looks for signs of follow-on orders from Singapore, one leading indicator will be the status of the joint multi-mission ship (JMMS) that Singapore announced several years ago as a replacement for the 141m long Endurance-class landing ship tanks.

News on this project has since fizzled out, possibly because of the F-35 evaluation. The F-35B's ability to take off from and land on ships offers many possibilities for the JMMS, especially if the flight deck can be extended from bow to stern to offer an enlarged platform for STOVL-capable planes.

Choosing the B-variant from among three types in the F-35 family indicates that the JMMS design may well incorporate features that allow helicopters and the F-35B to fly from its deck, making this class of ship akin to a small aircraft carrier. So one can see how one defence procurement (F-35B) has a knock-on effect on the decision for another SAF platform (the JMMS). Singapore looks at defence acquisitions holistically, with this example underlining why Singapore has earned its stripes as a reference customer.”
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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 07:48

As a file note, the 6 A-330 MRTTs that the RSAF ordered (or which at least 4 had been delivered by Aug 2019), each included 2 wing refuel probe in addition to the boom...the RSAF had already phased out all fighters equipped with a refuel probe earlier. Presumably with the FRU, the MRTT can refuel up to 3 F-35Bs at a time. A single MRTT carries enough fuel to fuel a dozen F-35Bs.

There would also be some non-US integration network requirements e.g. to Israeli G550s, Aster-30, Spyder SAM systems. The missiles fired from the Spyder SAM can be interchanged for use on board fighters. The F-16s are assumed to have integrated Derby, Python firing capability. It would be interesting to see if the F-35Bs would also be similarly integrated. There is also the option of the meteor which the British are integrating into their F-35Bs.
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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 14:53

weasel1962 wrote:https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/singapore-f-35-fighter-jet-air-force-base-stovl-training-pilots-12250968

This quoted is from the article not Weasel1962:

The F-35B variant, which Singapore has requested to purchase, has also a lift fan, essentially a second engine that directs additional thrust downwards, that allows the fighter jet to take off and land vertically, without the need for a long runway.



No it is essentially a lift fan that is powered off the single engine in the F-35B.

The sensor and networking capability alone makes the F-35 worth it.
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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 20:01

Yet in addition, Singapore received an industry offset when rolls Royce invested in a Trent engine manufacturing facility at seletar back in 2012.
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Unread post14 Jan 2020, 10:42

F-35 unit costs.png
Noted a lot of articles citing US$115m as the unit cost of the F-35B. They need to look at f-16.net before writing these stuff.

Per latest fast facts, lot 12-14 unit prices will be US$108m (12), US$104.8m (13), US$101.3m (14). At $100m a pop, that could be cheaper than the F-15SGs (I noted US$3.2b for 24). Not the most expensive fighter plane buy in Singapore's history.
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Unread post14 Jan 2020, 11:09

It's also worth noting the F-35B and F-15SG carry about the same amount of internal fuel. (13,326 lbs vs 13,550 lbs) :wink:


Just one more thing often overlooked by the critics..... :?
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Unread post14 Jan 2020, 15:04

Corsair1963 wrote:It's also worth noting the F-35B and F-15SG carry about the same amount of internal fuel. (13,326 lbs vs 13,550 lbs) :wink:

Just one more thing often overlooked by the critics..... :?


F-15SG like all F-15E come with CFT as standard/fitted meaning a default fuel capacity of around 23,000 lbs in practice before any optional EFT are added so your observation while technically correct does not have much real world relevance unless CFT are purposely stripped in usage to unlock the Mach 2.3-2.5 performance which no F-15E user has purposely done yet.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/pro ... -aircraft/

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Unread post15 Jan 2020, 16:27

marsavian wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:It's also worth noting the F-35B and F-15SG carry about the same amount of internal fuel. (13,326 lbs vs 13,550 lbs) :wink:

Just one more thing often overlooked by the critics..... :?


F-15SG like all F-15E come with CFT as standard/fitted meaning a default fuel capacity of around 23,000 lbs in practice before any optional EFT are added so your observation while technically correct does not have much real world relevance unless CFT are purposely stripped in usage to unlock the Mach 2.3-2.5 performance which no F-15E user has purposely done yet.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/pro ... -aircraft/

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That's true... but practically speaking, doesn't the drag associated with CFT's/the Eagle's external stores bring its overall range down to the F-35B level? Actually, I take that back about the CFT's. Recall reading somewhere where the CFT's subsonic drag index is very low. It's only when the Eagle is supersonic where the drag of such is really noticed. Of course, once you start hanging bombs/sensor pods off of them...
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Unread post15 Jan 2020, 17:56

What ends up eating the Mudhens range is weight. I wouldn't say it drops to F-35B ranges, but in spite of all the fuel it does not have a significant range advantage over an F-35A.
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Unread post15 Jan 2020, 22:33

weasel1962 wrote:
F-35 unit costs.png
Noted a lot of articles citing US$115m as the unit cost of the F-35B. They need to look at f-16.net before writing these stuff.

Per latest fast facts, lot 12-14 unit prices will be US$108m (12), US$104.8m (13), US$101.3m (14). At $100m a pop, that could be cheaper than the F-15SGs (I noted US$3.2b for 24). Not the most expensive fighter plane buy in Singapore's history.


There's the FMS surcharge and Singapore may not be eligible for the non-recurring cost waiver.
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Unread post16 Jan 2020, 01:19

Agreed on surcharges. Yet back in 2005 when the SG won the fighter comp, the Ks and Es were still priced at the premium $100m before the recent price drops. I doubt the Bs, including surcharges cost more than the F-15SGs, which also face surcharges. As important is that the F-15SG included significant weapons packages that the B doesn't need because all munitions acquired for the 15SG can be used by the B.

The B's EW supports mudhen's survivability and frees up the mudhen to do what it does best i.e. bombtruck.

Range circles showing the combat radius coverage
F-35B range.JPG

Operationally, the 15SG-35B range difference is not significant in Singapore's context. The operational battlefield, Singapore to the Kra peninsular is ~400nm i.e. preventing the same invasion route the Japanese took in ww2. Anything more, can be serviced by tankers. The B's range is also sufficient to cover the entire Malaccan straits and the relevant region of the South china sea up to the gulf of Thailand and down to the Sunda Straits.

I note that the standard USMC F-35 aviator training would normally result in carrier qualification. I presume it would be the same for international aviators going thru B training :)
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Unread post11 Feb 2020, 04:06

How the F-35 could be a game-changer for Singapore

By: Mike Yeo   


MELBOURNE, Australia — Singapore’s long-expected decision to acquire the Lockheed Martin-made F-35B Joint Strike Fighter could transform how it generates and sustains air power, with the tiny Southeast Asian island nation no longer reliant on long, vulnerable runways to operate an aircraft. The fifth-generation fighter jet’s short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing capability allows it to operate with little to no airstrip.


The jet’s advanced network-enabled capabilities would also be an added advantage for Singapore, which is working toward modernizing its military.


Following a lengthy evaluation process, Singapore last year selected the F-35 to replace its fleet of Lockheed Martin F-16C/D jets starting in 2030. And in early January 2020, the U.S. State Department cleared Singapore’s request for 12 F-35Bs, with four confirmed and an option for eight more.


Located at the southern end of the Strait of Malacca, near the southern end of the South China Sea and through which an estimated one-third of the world’s commercial shipping passes, Singapore’s economy is highly dependent on the global maritime trade.


Singapore is approximately 280 square miles, and its main island is only about 25 miles at its widest point. But while its military is a force to be reckoned with in the region, the country’s fleet of 60 F-16s and 40 Boeing F-15SG Eagle fighter jets still require relatively long runways. And that’s why the vulnerability of its runways will be put into sharper focus as the Republic of Singapore Air Force starts to retire its F-16s. In addition, Singapore plans to shut down one of its current fighter air bases to free up land for civilian purposes, leaving the country with just two fighter bases from the next decade onward.

Singapore’s acquisition of the F-35B will, however, reduce the Air Force’s dependence on long runways in the event of a conflict, during which an adversary might attempt to deny the use of runways. The short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing aircraft needs about 550 feet to take off (and it can of course land vertically).


Due to the shortage of training airspace at home, Singapore maintains several aircraft detachments for training in overseas, including in Australia, France and the United States. These include two fast-jet detachments at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona and Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho for training F-16 and F-15 crew respectively.


Should Singapore purchase the F-35B, it’s unlikely a training program for the stealthy fighter will take place at Luke AFB because the international training program there focuses on the conventional-takeoff-and-landing F-35A. Instead, Singapore will likely seek to embed a detachment with U.S. Marine Corps units flying the F-35B, which makes Marine Corps air stations Beaufort in South Carolina, Miramar in California or Yuma in Arizona as three possible locations.


In December, Singapore signed a memorandum of understanding with the U.S. for its fighter jets to conduct training on the Pacific island of Guam, which will see the long-term basing of a squadron of jets on the U.S. territory for training from 2029 onward.


Given Singapore’s procurement history, an F-35B purchase will likely be followed by more as the country incrementally replaces its F-16s. Singapore has traditionally used this procurement model with its fighter purchases to avoid budgetary peaks and troughs, as well as to maintain secrecy over defense acquisitions.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-sho ... singapore/
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Unread post12 Feb 2020, 09:31

Not saying yes to F-35B on JMMS (but not saying no either)...only "there's a lot more to it." Typically cryptic.

Article: Singapore Airshow gives a first glimpse of what to expect from the F-35B ahead of RSAF assessment

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... n-12417800

SINGAPORE: Like a scene from an Avengers movie, the F-35B fighter jet drifted to the middle of centre stage at the Singapore Airshow, its spinning lift fan and downwards rear nozzle drowning out the accompanying music.

The watching crowd trained their lenses on the F-35B as it moved slowly through the air, dramatically kicking up spouts of water. After all, this is the first time the jet is performing aerobatics in Singapore.

And then the F-35B, all 18,000kg of it, stopped in mid-air.

In January, the United States approved the sale of up to 12 F-35Bs to Singapore at an estimated cost of US$2.75 billion (S$3.71 billion), pending approval from Congress. This would make it the most expensive warplane Singapore has bought.

But experts have called the decision prudent, given the F-35B's ability to take off from shorter runways and land vertically. The hovering display on Sunday (Feb 9) at the airshow was a demonstration of this capability.

This capability will allow land-scarce Singapore to launch the jets from smaller air bases with shorter runways and alternative facilities like temporary highway airstrips, analysts have said.

Singapore's Defence Ministry has asked to buy four F-35Bs first to assess the jet's capabilities and suitability before deciding on a full fleet.

"The F-35Bs are the same birds that we put in a request for to Congress. And if no objections from Congress, then we can put up the orders," Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen told reporters on Friday.

"Of course, it’s slightly jumping the gun because even if it's approved (by Congress), it will be a number of years before the F-35s (get here).

"First, we get them to train in US and then bring them back to Singapore. But at least for this coming week, Singaporeans can get to see the F-35s in the air."

Singaporeans will also be able to witness other aspects of the fifth-generation fighter jet when it takes to the skies on the public days of the airshow from Feb 15 to 16.

After the F-35B pulled a series of tight turns, vertical climbs and high-speed passes during its display, it flew past centre stage with its internal weapons bay doors open. This bay conceals the fighter's bombs and missiles, and is one aspect of why it is extremely stealthy.

In contrast, Singapore's current warplanes, the fourth-generation F-15SG and F-16C/D, carry their weapons externally, increasing their radar signature. The F-35Bs are expected to replace the F-16s.

"HEAVYWEIGHT FIGHTER NOT MOVING IN THE SKY"

Still, F-35B pilot Lieutenant Colonel Michael Rountree, 41, said the capability airshow visitors would be most interested in is the short take-off vertical landing.

"You will see the aircraft hover centre stage, point at you and translate left and right and front and back," he said on Friday.

"So you can see a 40,000-pound heavyweight fighter not moving in the sky, which is a pretty incredible feat for a modern fighter which can also fly supersonic."

Lt Col Rountree, commanding officer of the Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, said the F-35B is easier to land vertically than the AV-8B Harrier, the jet he used to fly.

"While the vertical landing capability of the Harrier is very much a manual procedure, this aircraft is completely computer-controlled," he explained. "My inputs are totally different than I did with the Harrier, so it makes it very easy to land – it’s highly mechanised and very reliable."

This makes the jet very successful at landing on warships, he continued.

"We can recover this aircraft every time safely and reliably, and I’d say that is one of the major differences that makes it a real pleasure flying this aircraft," he stated.

COULD SINGAPORE LAND THE F-35B ON ITS WARSHIPS?

Perhaps it is no surprise then that defence observers have suggested that Singapore might land its F-35Bs on another of its future assets, the Republic of Singapore Navy's (RSN) joint multi mission ship (JMMS).

The JMMS will replace the RSN's current 141m-long, 6,000-tonne landing ships tank (LST) from 2020, and like its predecessor be deployed in disaster relief and counter piracy operations.

Reports have said the larger JMMS might feature a straight-through flight deck, with landing spots for helicopters and possibly the F-35Bs.

But in a July 2018 interview with CNA, the RSN’s head of naval operations Rear-Admiral (RADM) Cheong Kwok Chien played down these suggestions.

"No pilot likes to take off from a ship when the runway is only 50m," he said. "So even for a ship of this size, the runway – the flat deck that it has behind – maybe is only like 70m to 80m."

A 2015 US Department of Defense report estimated that the F-35B can take-off with a typical load of fuel and weapons from runways as short as 170m.

RADM Cheong said "size is maybe the lowest denominator to fulfill" when it comes to designing ships that can carry warplanes, noting that the deck must be strong enough to withstand their weight and hot afterburners.

"A typical aircraft carrier is much bigger than this, much thicker than this, and it has all its control and launch and recovery systems," he added of the JMMS.

"And then you also need all the radars, the control tower, the whole communications suite to talk to the aircraft. So you can’t really say a car is a Ferrari just because it’s loud – there’s a lot more to it."
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