Singapore F-35 selection

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spazsinbad

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Unread post11 Dec 2013, 08:56

Singapore officials view F-35 jets in U.S. ahead of possible purchase 11 Dec 2013 REUTERS
"Dec 11 (Reuters) - Senior defense officials from Singapore got to see U.S. Marine Corps F-35 fighter jets in action on Tuesday at the Luke Air Force Base in Arizona as the Asian country mulls buying the Lockheed Martin Corp planes, a base spokeswoman said.

The aircraft flew to Luke Air Force Base, a pilot-training center near Phoenix, from Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, which is about 175 miles (280 km) away. Yuma is home to the first operational squadron of F-35 fighter jets, said First Lieutenant Candice Dillitte, a spokeswoman for the Arizona base.

The Singapore officials visited the base as part of Forging Sabre, a Singapore armed forces exercise taking place at Luke and at a nearby training range, according to a news release.

Singapore is considering purchasing F-35s in the future, but has not yet committed to an order or the timetable for when it may come. The U.S. government has already approved a letter of agreement for Singapore's possible F-35 orders, which had been expected months ago.

One U.S. defense official said Singapore's desire to see the F-35Bs in action underscored the country's interest in the new warplane, although it remained unclear when a deal would be signed.

Another source familiar with the process said it was unlikely that Singapore would announce any F-35 orders at the Singapore air show in February...."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/ ... 7V20131211
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Unread post12 Dec 2013, 04:00

spazsinbad wrote:Singapore officials view F-35 jets in U.S. ahead of possible purchase 11 Dec 2013 REUTERS
"Dec 11 (Reuters) - Senior defense officials from Singapore got to see U.S. Marine Corps F-35 fighter jets in action on Tuesday at the Luke Air Force Base in Arizona as the Asian country mulls buying the Lockheed Martin Corp planes, a base spokeswoman said.

The aircraft flew to Luke Air Force Base, a pilot-training center near Phoenix, from Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, which is about 175 miles (280 km) away. Yuma is home to the first operational squadron of F-35 fighter jets, said First Lieutenant Candice Dillitte, a spokeswoman for the Arizona base.

The Singapore officials visited the base as part of Forging Sabre, a Singapore armed forces exercise taking place at Luke and at a nearby training range, according to a news release.

Singapore is considering purchasing F-35s in the future, but has not yet committed to an order or the timetable for when it may come. The U.S. government has already approved a letter of agreement for Singapore's possible F-35 orders, which had been expected months ago.

One U.S. defense official said Singapore's desire to see the F-35Bs in action underscored the country's interest in the new warplane, although it remained unclear when a deal would be signed.

Another source familiar with the process said it was unlikely that Singapore would announce any F-35 orders at the Singapore air show in February...."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/ ... 7V20131211



Sounds like Singapore maybe getting closer not farther from a decision on the F-35??? :wink:
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Unread post13 Dec 2013, 12:35

Looks like later rather than sooner


http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... er-394112/

Singapore's in no hurry to purchase F-35s: defence minister

Singapore’s defence minister has reaffirmed the nation’s interest in the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), but says there is no great rush to order the type.

In a joint press conference with his US counterpart in Washington DC, Singapore defence minister Ng Eng Hen said Singapore is “in no particular hurry because our [Lockheed Martin] F-16s are still very operational, they are due for upgrades but it is a serious consideration…”
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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Unread post17 Dec 2013, 21:52

Hagel: U.S. Committed to Singapore Relationship 12 Dec 2013 Claudette Roulo, American Forces Press Service
"...Yesterday, Ng visited the Republic of Singapore Air Force's Peace Carvin II F-16 Fighting Falcon training detachment at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona, which was celebrating its 20th anniversary. The detachment also held an integrated live-fire exercise as part of the annual Forging Sabre exercise, and U.S. Marines demonstrated the F-35B Lightning II joint strike fighter aircraft, Ng said....

...Singapore is “seriously looking” at replacing its F-16 fleet with the F-35B, Ng said. But, he continued, “We're in no particular hurry, because our F-16s are still very operational, and they're due for upgrades. But it is a serious consideration.”"

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=121333
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Unread post18 Dec 2013, 02:15

If to replace F-16, an F-35B acquisition could be year 2025 or later. As per info in F-16.net, the Singapore F-16s were IOC only in 1998 which on a 30 year lifespan would last til 2028. The planned upgrade would keep these F-16s in service for the full duration. However, its not just F-16 replacement per link below (last question to defense minister).

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/press_ ... peech.html

Question: For Minister Ng, could you tell us about Singapore's interest in the F-35B. I know some of you were watching that demonstrations this week in Arizona.

Dr Ng: I've said in Parliament during the last budget that Singapore is seriously looking at the F-35s to replace our F-5s. We're in no particular hurry because our F-16s are still very operational, they are due for upgrades but it is a serious consideration and during my visit here to Luke Air Base, the US marines were kind enough to have a demonstration of the F-35Bs and it's quite an engineering marvel. We recognise that there are aspects to consider and we will make our deliberate decision because as I said we are in no particular hurry but we are seriously considering.


Singapore still operates a 144 squadron of F-5s (from previously 3) that is reaching the end of operational life (since those were 1977-86 built series). The statement appears to suggest a number of options e.g. drop operational fighter squadrons to 4 and allow a capability gap before a 5th sqn is procured (option 1), the 5th fighter sqn to replace the F-5 sqn (option 2) or wait until F-16s are replaced by F-35s (option 3). Option 2 imho is most likely as Singapore is unlikely to rely on only 4 squadrons for coverage (when historically it operated 6, now 5). Option 2 is however dependent on how long the remaining F-5s can last. Older F-5s in Taiwan, Brazil service are still flying. The Singapore F-5 upgrade provided PGM and avionics capability that was intended to keep the F-5s in service up to 2009. With high airframe service life of the F-16s, the Singapore air force is clearly keeping the F-16s in the air to minimise and preserve remaining flight time of the F-5s. This hints at a possible wait until Blk 3F schedule is confirmed (year?) or full rate production is authorised (2018).

An F-5 sqn replacement also hints at the eventual F-35 procurement number. With 3 sqns of F-16s and 1 sqn of F-5, that could mean potentially 4 sqn of replacements (64-96 aircraft).
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Unread post12 Feb 2014, 11:51

SINGAPORE: Lockheed advances with Asia F-35 roll-out 12 Feb 2014 Greg Waldron
"Lockheed Martin is making steady progress introducing the F-35 fighter to the Asia-Pacific region.

President of Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Orlando Carvalho says that Lockheed and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries personnel are deep in the process of designing a final assembly and check-out (FACO) line for the conventional take-off and landing F-35A in Japan.

Tokyo announced plans to acquire 42 F-35s in late 2011. Four aircraft will be delivered from Lockheed’s Fort Worth assembly line, with the following 38 to be produced in Japan by Mitsubishi. The first four aircraft are scheduled for delivery from the second quarter of 2016, from the eighth lot of low rate initial production (LRIP) aircraft.

“We’re working with the US government to execute the programme for Japan,” says Carvalho. “We’ve done this before with Japan’s Mitsubishi F-2 fighter programme.”

Carvalho stresses that South Korea has yet to be confirmed as a customer, but that Lockheed is confident of an eventual order under the US government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) mechanism....

...Carvalho declines to comment on Singapore’s apparent interest in the F-35. He notes [cheekily], however, that the country’s defence minister witnessed a demonstration of the short take-off and landing (STOVL) F-35B variant during a visit to the USA in 2013. This, he feels, could “indicate a preference” for the STOVL variant."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ut-395853/
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Unread post02 Mar 2014, 09:12

Build it and they will come.
The advent of the F-35B is stirring interest in ship-borne aviation strike capability.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... nav%7Chead

Is a Light Carrier in Singapore's Future?

TAIPEI — For years, Singapore’s ST Engineering Marine has been parading a ship model of a landing helicopter dock (LHD) vessel that could handle the jump-jet variant of the F-35 joint strike fighter.

The model was most recently on display at last month’s Singapore Airshow. And while Singapore’s Ministry of Defence (MINDEF) won’t confirm that it has plans to build such a vessel, it’s also not denying it.

The model shows a variant of the Endurance-160 multirole support ship configured as an LHD.

MINDEF confirmed that Singapore has expressed an interest in the F-35B, as illustrated by the recent inspection of the aircraft by Defense Minister Ng Eng Hen during his visit to Luke Air Force Base, Ariz., in December.

In an interview transcript released by the Defense Writers Group, conducted in late July, US Air Force Gen. Herbert Carlisle disclosed that Lt. Gen. Ng Chee Meng, Singapore Defence Force chief, had told him that Singapore would procure the F-35B.

“I know that’s a decision that’s been made and that’s why they’re part of the program, but I don’t know where they’re at in putting that in the budget,” said Carlisle, commander of Pacific Air Forces.

MORE..
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post02 Mar 2014, 09:31

Here is a PDF about the 'Endurance 160': http://www.stengg.com/download/pdf/1145 ... v3e5ef.pdf (1.8Mb)

This website explains a possible use - just as a temporary 'lily pad' and not permanent basing of F-35Bs:

Hobby - Battle Ship ! ( Endurance 160 LHD ) Variant 21 Oct 2012
Subaltern Lim
"...This is NOT an aircraft carrier. This 14,500 ton LHD is not an aircraft carrier. By adding a fix-wing ski jump run way is by no means making it an aircraft carrier. The design does not include expanding the hanger facility to accommodate the F-35B. The design does not even include an elevator sized for the JSF fighter! Without a proper hanger, the combatant fix-wing fighters are not meant to sail with the ship, with shelter, maintenance, repair and tender loving care. The F-35B can land and take off, do refueling, ordnance, toilet break for the pilot but that is about it, also to reassure our good neighbours.

Got air cover better than no air cover. Remember Prince of Wales and the Repulse?...

...Four is not enough! Need to emphasis again that the improvised LHD is not an aircraft carrier. It does not do power projection. This little red dot of an island republic do not aspire to do power projection, hearsay. Four is what the improved LHD can accommodate on its flight deck with minimal disruption to routine run of the mill heliops. For the second point, see above - Got air cover better than no air cover.

Sea Control. Not power projection is the name of the game. Securing a free SLOC (Sea Lanes Of Communication ) and protecting of merchant ships. The LHD may be stationed out at sea for extended period of time. A tactical Lily Pad? The F-35Bs' can conduct operations in conjunction with the Air-Sea Integration doctrine at further ranges with aerial refueling and they can be assured of "lily pads" for emergency or planned landing out at sea.

Why from 160 to 171? With the addition of a ski jump, the slope of the ski ramp starts to ascend on the stern positioned heli-pad to achieve an optimal angle of 12.5 degrees for certain combat load of the JSF. This construction negates a possible landing/takeoff on a gradient, thus effectively reduces the heli-lift capability in a single bound from
five to four helicopters. A "minor" inconvenient for air transport logistician and a "slight" disruption to high tempo heliborne infantry operation. Extending the stern by another 11m the 5th heli-pad can be reinstated and everybody is happy. While 03 Chinooks would probably lift an Infantry Company in a single bound but not certain if there are
areodynamic issues with multiple of them taking off from the Endurance 171 flight deck."

Source: http://3719n-2633e.blogspot.com.au/2012 ... 0-lhd.html


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5v5Sl1YZRTk/U ... ssiles.bmp
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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gIyz0Mvmp8Y/U ... t+deck.bmp
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Endurance 160 LHD Flight Deck Side ONLY SingaporeTIF.gif
F-35BsEndurance171MultiRoleSupportShip.gif
Endurance171sideSkiJump.gif
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Unread post02 Mar 2014, 11:28

Definitely speculative at this point but fun to think of what could be. All depends on how Singapore sees it's security needs evolving and if putting STOVL jets aboard ship makes sense down the road. In that case, modifying the existing design or even a completely new one may not be an impediment.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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Unread post03 Mar 2014, 06:49

Why doesn't Singapore just go with an enlarged design that could accommodate the F-35B. Especially, consider steel is cheap........ :roll:
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Unread post03 Mar 2014, 07:09

The idea is not new (see thread below 5 years back started by yours truly under a different nick).

http://sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/355608

The ship design was apparently prompted by Defence Ministry asking if local industry (Singapore technologies) had the capacity to build a LHD (that was technically F-35B capable). The endurance 160 design is just a teaser, like they did for the Fearless class replacement PVs (now known as LMV) to demonstrate that it is actually feasible. If the ministry does go ahead, an actual design would be different. Due to the current LPDs (8000 tons not 14000 as quoted by DN) being commissioned only in year 2000/2001, the replacement is not due for at least another decade though there were discussions about selling it early to free up personnel for the LHD. The idea had a bit of traction because the previous defence minister was the ex-chief of navy and is now the current deputy prime minister.

Parts of the ideas proposed in the thread have begun to materialise from last year with the announcement of the closure of an airbase for consolidation and the interest shown in the F-35B variant. Such planning takes decades to materialise e.g. the airbase will only close in 2030. Hence any LHD, which is still speculative at this time, or even the F-35B could take awhile to happen.
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Unread post03 Mar 2014, 09:09

Quote from the DN article
Costs could increase as much as 25 percent to buy and operate the F-35B relative to the standard takeoff version. This would mean fewer planes, Aboulafia said.


In America, land is cheap. In Singapore, the land cost in areas surrounding the airbases hits ~US$150-US$180 million per hectare today (based on actual land sale prices). In town, land prices can hit US$1 billion per hectare.

The decision to shift the airbase frees up 800 hectares. How much is the 25% added cost compared to that 800 hectares? How many F-35Bs and LHDs can that 800 hectares afford? If you were the air force & military heads, what would you have asked for in return to give up such a valuable property? I'd ask for a couple of LHDs and as many F-35Bs I can base. The Singapore air force could buy the F-35A but it would have to keep its airbases. Already, its remaining airbases have to operate the fixed wing F-15s/16s in inventory. Seen in that light, is it surprising Singapore is looking at the B variant?
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Unread post03 Mar 2014, 09:41

weasel1962 wrote:Quote from the DN article
Costs could increase as much as 25 percent to buy and operate the F-35B relative to the standard takeoff version. This would mean fewer planes, Aboulafia said.


In America, land is cheap. In Singapore, the land cost in areas surrounding the airbases hits ~US$150-US$180 million per hectare today (based on actual land sale prices). In town, land prices can hit US$1 billion per hectare.

The decision to shift the airbase frees up 800 hectares. How much is the 25% added cost compared to that 800 hectares? How many F-35Bs and LHDs can that 800 hectares afford? If you were the air force & military heads, what would you have asked for in return to give up such a valuable property? I'd ask for a couple of LHDs and as many F-35Bs I can base. The Singapore air force could buy the F-35A but it would have to keep its airbases. Already, its remaining airbases have to operate the fixed wing F-15s/16s in inventory. Seen in that light, is it surprising Singapore is looking at the B variant?


Well, nothing says they won't order some F-35B's sometime after the initial order of F-35A's. Good bet Singapore will end up buying both just like a number of other countries.
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Unread post06 Mar 2014, 20:02

First official note of possible LHD by 2030

Singapore Defense Minister budget speech
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/press_ ... peech.html

We are therefore studying carefully the need for larger LSTs that can carry more helicopters as well as more cargo.


Also in bad news for LM, F-35 buy still not decided yet but will be in service by 2030. F-15 and F-16 to remain mainstay of combat fleet in medium term and F-16 is expected to still be flying in 2030. So any F-35 buy numbers, if selected, will be limited until 2020-2030. F-16 AESA upgrade is confirmed with A-330 tanker selected to replace existing KC-135s.
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Unread post25 Aug 2014, 06:21

Singapore probably has up to 40 F-15SGs
24 Aug 2014 Greg Waldron | Flightglobal.com

"Evidence that Singapore has far more than the officially claimed 24 Boeing F-15SG fighter aircraft has emerged, although the precise number of airframes has yet to be ascertained....

...If Singapore has 40 F-15SGs, the country’s fighter fleet numbers about 126 aircraft. Flightglobal’s World Air Forces directory shows that Singapore also operates 60 Lockheed Martin F-16s and 26 Northrop F-5s. The country plans to upgrade the F-16 fleet, and replace the F-5s with the F-35 – the country has indicated a preference for the short take-off vertical landing F-35B variant.

Singapore’s secrecy about its F-15SG fleet could stem from the fact that the type is, by a very large margin, the most effective combat aircraft in Southeast Asia – especially coupled with the high quality of Singapore pilots.

Singapore’s F-15SGs are split between Singapore and the USAF’s Mountain Home base in Idaho, where a training detachment is stationed."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... gs-402971/
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