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Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 11:30
by spazsinbad
doge wrote:F-35 is, Is it enough to wash only every two week cycle? :shock: ... -aircraft/
Royal Australian Air Force personnel discuss working with the F-35A aircraft at Williamtown
NOVEMBER 2 2019 Max McKinney

"...Asked about the jet's corrosion issues, Tinker said learning how to manage the aircraft at Williamtown had been a challenge this year. "The Williamtown environment has been the biggest learning curve we've got at the moment," he said. "Not that we're the only country that operates near the beach.

"We've got a wash cycle. So at two weeks we will do a wash with chemicals, like a detergent, and then we'll rinse it off the other second week just to get the salt off it."… [underlining makes screen reading difficult]

Looks to me like a rinse every two weeks with a wash every two weeks in-between - so something every week. In Florida a bird bath is in use - not sure if it is used after every flight. I guess it all depends on where the flight takes place. IF over land not much need for any rinsing. OF COURSE if low level over water along a beach with sea spray then - go for it.

Keep in mind the F-35s have been extensively corrosion proofed - airframe & engine - and tested. Bs & Cs operate at sea.

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 22 Nov 2019, 19:09
by XanderCrews

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 23 Nov 2019, 11:03
by notkent
Just wondering whose mum was the model for that, and can I meet her.

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2019, 08:57
by spazsinbad
US Navy Contract
26 Nov 2019 DoD

"Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is awarded an $831,008,187 modification to a previously awarded fixed-price-incentive-firm-target, firm-fixed-price contract (N00019-17-C-0001). This modification provides for the production and delivery of 15 lot 14 F-35A aircraft and associated red(?) gear in support of the Government of Australia...." [then follows USAF F-35A Lot 15 long lead items info]

Source: ... vDelivery/

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 28 Nov 2019, 17:26
by ricnunes
notkent wrote:Just wondering whose mum was the model for that, and can I meet her.

Yeah, me too! That would be the perfect example of a MILF :mrgreen:

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 29 Nov 2019, 13:37
by spazsinbad
Page 53 this thread an example of the RAAF Growler Take Off Accident at Nellis AFB (engine failure). I never understood the claim by RAAF that it would be compensated (by US somebody/one) for this Growler written off & in storage AMARG.

No compensation for faulty Growler aircraft that burst into flames...
29 Nov 2019 Andrew Greene

"Key points:
• A faulty engine led to a US-built Australian warplane bursting into flames in 2018
• Defence officials have confirmed the US has refused to pay compensation for a new plane...

The Department of Defence is reviewing all major foreign military contracts after the United States declared it will not pay any compensation for a new $125 million warplane destroyed by fire due to a faulty engine. The expensive setback was revealed during a parliamentary hearing where officials also disclosed that the cost of Australia's Future Submarine program could top an estimated $225 billion by 2080.

In January 2018, an American-made Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) Growler skidded across a runway and burst into flames following a dramatic engine malfunction during an attempted take-off at a US military base in Nevada [Nellis AFB].

The ABC last year revealed a RAAF investigation had confirmed a high-pressure compressor in the Growler's engine had broken into three major pieces, with one segment piercing through the bottom of the jet and taking a chunk out of the runway.

The badly-damaged aircraft was eventually written off after what senior defence figures privately described as the "most serious incident of its kind for the RAAF in more than 25 years".

Ever since the fiery mishap, Australia has tried to claim compensation from the United States Navy for the loss of the $125 million warplane, but Defence officials have now revealed they have been unsuccessful.

Air Vice Marshal Greg Hoffman, the head of the Defence Department's Aerospace Systems Division, told Senate Estimates that Australian taxpayers would now have to foot the bill. "The US Navy has formally written to us and advised that unfortunately, and it is very unfortunate that we can't get compensated for this, but the position is there is no compensation," he said. Under questioning from crossbench senator Rex Patrick, Air Vice Marshal Hoffman said the United States Navy would also receive no compensation from the contractor if it experienced a similar mishap. [DUH]

"In the aircraft industry there's a lot of self-insurance that goes on and so the owner and operator holds the liability for the aeroplane," he said. [DUH]

Deputy Defence secretary Tony Fraser said the department was examining whether there were warranty protections on other large purchases. "It has been a difficult lesson and as we've pursued legal advice on all of the foreign military sales and cooperative programs we'll continue to strengthen that," he said.... [Good luck with that]

...The RAAF has 11 jets remaining in its EA-18G Growler fleet but is yet to decide whether it will replace the damaged aircraft...."

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2019, 19:08
by doge
I will try to dig up past news articles from Australia. 8) (I extract only my favorite part.) ... -air-base/
First F-35As in arrive at Williamtown RAAF, Newcastle
DECEMBER 10 2018 Phoebe Moloney
Chief of air force Gavin “Leo” Davies said the F-35 project made Williamtown the “home of fighters”.
Apart from the two jets, a purpose-built $1 billion “precinct” was unveiled at the base.
“The F-35 not only has brought the infrastructure we are standing around, it also brings a new way of flying,” Mr Davies said.
“When young men and women are looking for future careers in the air force, they will see that we have the F-35 base here at Williamtown and they’ll want to be part of it.”

He thanked the personnel of the base’s No.3 Squadron, who have been testing the aircraft in the US since 2014.
“There have been some tough times, and there have been some folk who have really rubbished this aircraft.”
He said the squadron had spent thousands of hours flying the plane.
“I think it has truly demonstrated what the potential is.”
Mr Pyne said the jet’s analysis and communication capabilities set it apart from previous military acquisitions as “arguably the most lethal”.
“It changes the way we perceive of a battle field,” he said. “It connects all the different platforms on the battlefield together, whether they are on the sea, on the land, or in the air, to determine the best way and the best most effective means of taking out an opponent.”

Wing commander Darren Clare, the head of No.3 Squadron, described the jet as a “computer pretending to be an aeroplane”.
“It’s easy to fly, almost too easy to fly. It gets above supersonic [speed] relatively easily,” he said. ... -nsw-home/
Joint Strike Fighters jet into NSW home
DECEMBER 10 2018 Luke Costin
The arrival of Australia's first two advanced fighter jets marks the start of a new generation Air Force, its chief says.

RAAF Chief Air Marshal Leo Davies said the most significant acquisition in the air force's history marks more than an upgrade in equipment.
He said the aircraft acts like a conductor for an orchestra, allowing all in Defence to better understand threats on the battlefield.
"The JSF replaces nothing but changes everything," he said.
"The F-35 requires a new way of thinking and operating. It is a catalyst to transforming us into a fifth-generation fighting force."

Darren Clare, who flew the aircraft across the Pacific to Brisbane and onto Williamtown, said he tried not to think about the cost of the elite aircraft.
"It's a very very easy to fly - sometimes too easy," he told reporters.
"It's a computer pretending to be an aeroplane. There is just so much information coming in." ... n-airshow/
Australia's first Joint Strike Fighters unveiled at Avalon Airshow
MARCH 3 2017 David Wroe, national security correspondent
The Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Leo Davies, said the real benefit would be in linking the F-35 with Army forces, Air Warfare Destroyer battleships, naval helicopters and other planes such as the Wedgetail command and control aircraft.
"That will allow more people on the battlefield to have more information to make more decisions earlier with a better result. The F-35 is the core to that," he said.

Defence Minister Marise Payne said that the F-35 had "stealth built into it right from the start".
"Its fuel tanks, its weapons and sensors are on the inside of the aircraft ... They have an extraordinary ability to share information with other F-35s, with other aircraft, the rest of the defence force including the army and the navy, and those of our allies and coalition partners," she said.
"Put simply, its ability to share information will increase the survivability and the capability of our other assets in the air, on the ground and in the water."
The broad view of experts is that while the program has had its problems, leading to cost overruns and delays, the final product will be a huge step forward in air combat and much of the criticism of the plane's performance misses the point.
It is better seen as a brain in a network than a manoeuvrable dog fighter. With its famous 8 million lines of software code - which has suffered glitches because of its sheer complexity - it is very smart and will be able to see and hear everything around it while also funnelling information to its allied forces.
Their strength is partly in their stealth - conferred by the sleek body shape that deflects radar and a mysterious - highly classified - coating that absorbs it, making the planes hard for an enemy to see.
But most of all it is in their computing grunt and their highly sophisticated sensors.

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 06 Dec 2019, 19:30
by notkent
Commercial planes have warranties but don't know if any cover the engines.

For example "Bombardier corporate jets offer "Smart Parts", a 5 year nose-to-tail warranty, except for engines and APU which is under a pay-as-you-go insurance program."

Would like that if the root cause was a manufacturing defect on the engine then some recourse could be taken against the engine manufacture.

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 10 Dec 2019, 23:13
by spazsinbad
Some odd RAAF language about 'warranties' as mentioned earlier - some good photos of damage to the extinct GROWLER.

Earlier post above with links: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23043&p=430745&hilit=AMARG#p430745
Australia Won’t Get Compensation For EA-18G Growler Aircraft That Burst Into Flames At Nellis Air Force Base in 2018
05 Dec 2019 David Cenciotti

"...The aircraft serialled A46-311, one of a contingent of four RAAF No. 6 Squadron’s EF-18G Growlers attending Red Flag 18-1 air combat exercise, suffered an uncontained engine failure on take off. According to the RAAF investigation, one of the aircraft’s General Electric F414 turbofan engines broke into three major pieces with one segment piercing through the airframe, another one going through the second engine and a third one destroying the right hand side tail.

“At ~140 knots indicated air speed (KIAS), the ballistic material failure of the right hand engine caused the almost simultaneous failure of the left hand engine, a cascading set of malfunctions and emergencies and a fierce fuel / airframe fire. Confronted with a marked increase in vibration and ambient noise, the crew completed their ‘bold face’ actions for multiple major malfunctions,” says the RAAF investigation report. “About four seconds after the failure of both engines, the situation was further compounded by the loss of all generated electrical systems; which disabled, amongst others, the Digital Display Indicators (DDIs), Multipurpose Colour Display (MPCD), Head-up Display (HUD) and anti-skid braking. Whilst under emergency (system) braking, both the left and right main undercarriage tyres burst, severing the hydraulic line that serves the left hand undercarriage brake. The aircraft was kept on the runway using a combination of differential braking (from a dissipating hydraulic system) and aerodynamic / physical drag. Approaching the runway’s first arresting barrier, the aircraft departed the prepared surface to the right (at about 8,400 feet of the 10,000 foot runway). Carrying an estimated 50 knots of groundspeed into the sand based margin, the aircraft passed outboard of the starboard anchor housing for the arrestor cable. Remaining upright and influenced by the additional drag of the sand, the aircraft slowed and yawed left (back through the runway heading) before coming to rest on an adjoining intersection, marginally right of the runway in use, 9,100 feet from the initial departure point. Confronted by the significant fuel / airframe fire, the aircrew made a rapid egress from the cockpit, via the port side of the leading edge extension (LEX), gathering at a safe point upwind of the aircraft. The pilot was later treated for smoke inhalation, whilst the Electronic Warfare Officer (EWO) remained physically unharmed (save bruising).”

As the jet came to a halt, the rear fuselage caught fire, the main landing gear collapsed and two of the three ALQ-99 pods got damaged: the aircraft suffered damages considered “beyond repair” and as a consequence it was withdrawn from use.... [then engine issues detail]

...Immediately after the investigation report was released, the Australian Defense Department tried to claim compensation through a convoluted process that would see the claim go through United States Navy then on to Boeing who makes the Growler, and eventually to General Electric, who makes the F414 engine. However, the request was rejected in the very early stages...." [then ABC News report above referenced]

Photo: "6 Squadron EA-18G A46-311 after the incident at Nellis AFB (Image credit: RAAF)" ... detail.jpg

Source: ... e-in-2018/

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 06:45
by beepa
Another 7 F35's arrive into Australia today!! (not my picture)

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 07:00
by Corsair1963
You sure that is a recent arrival???

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 07:22
by spazsinbad
Arrival of seven RAAF F-35As not in media AFAIK however there was a FINAL FLYPAST of Classic Hornets COURSE today:

11 Dec 2019: ... -formation

Previously 05 Dec 2019: ... -over-raaf


Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 07:50
by beepa
On the ground, great to see so many arrive at once.

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 08:12
by spazsinbad
Rather than JUST attach a photo, how about an URL so others can go too. Thanks.

Re: Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

Unread postPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 08:32
by beepa
Sorry Spaz, gotta wait for the fake news outlets wake up. Only this so far.