Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

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spazsinbad

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Unread post11 Dec 2018, 21:28

Thanks 'BP'. A report about the first two F-35As to arrive in Oz in 2017 for the Avalon airshow says this.
Air-to-Air Refuelling [page 31] PDF page of ARTICKLE attached below now
Winter 2017 WINGS magazine

"...The recent flights of the F-35 from USA flew the same route as the F-4Es, via Hickam and Andersen AFB and, according to [Aust.] Air Force News, air refuelled every 45 mins - a total of 25 refuellings…"
&
"The recent deployment of ten USMC F-35Bs from Yuma, Arizona to Iwakuni, Japan was an interesting logistical deployment, not only for the time it took but for the number of air refuellings the stealthy fighters required crossing the
Pacific. According to USAF, nine tankers flew with the 10 x F-35Bs, transferring a total of 766,000 lb of fuel, with more
than 250 aerial refuellings, or 25 per F-35, for 5800 n miles. It took seven days for 10 USMC F-35Bs to fly from Yuma to
their new home at Iwakuni, Japan, 18-26 January 2017, a flight that on a commercial airliner normally takes less than
24 hr. Many factors contribute to the time it takes a military fighter to get from point A to point B: weather, terrain and pilot fatigue, to name just a few. But on this particular voyage, the USAF's conservative refuelling model required the Marine Corps aircraft to refuel with accompanying tankers a grand total of 250 times, a number reported to be far too many for an efficient ocean-crossing.... [but USAF worried about F-35B probes malfunctioning closed so the Bees flew with the probes open all the time]

it is ultimately up to the Air Force to set the rules. For comparison, first F-35A assembled at the FACO in Italy
flew about 4000 n miles across to the US in February 2016 in two days, with a stop in the Azores; it refuelled in the air
seven times, the last as a precaution. Four months later, three F-35As flew from the US to England, about 3400 n miles; they also made seven hookups...."
&
Editor's Note
The first two RAAF Hornet aircraft flew from Lemoore NAS to Williamtown in 1985, non-stop, a distance of about 6500 n miles, and air refuelled 15 times
. The ferry of the RAAF F-4E Phantoms in 1970 carried out 10 air refuellings from George AFB-Hickam AFB-Andersen AFB- Amberley, a distance of 8200 n miles, (18h flight time), with two overnights. The rationale for the F-4Es (with 2 x engines) was to have enough fuel to divert - on the Hickam to Guam leg, to Midway Is or Wake Is, as required. The Super Hornet ferries flew similar distances, but the number of 'hookups' is not known - probably at least 20...."

Source: https://www.raafa.org.au/sites/default/ ... nter17.pdf (11.5Mb)
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ARF Details RAAF WINGS Mag Winter17.pdf
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RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post12 Dec 2018, 05:16

F-35 Arrival at Williamtown - News Coverages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkjvynBFSiw

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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ricnunes

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Unread post12 Dec 2018, 19:09

spazsinbad wrote:Thanks 'BP'. A report about the first two F-35As to arrive in Oz in 2017 for the Avalon airshow says this.


Thanks Spaz (and also BP) for the more detailed info.

(time to try it in Prepar3d :D )
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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blindpilot

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Unread post12 Dec 2018, 21:06

ricnunes"...
Thanks Spaz (and also BP) for the more detailed info.

(time to try it in Prepar3d :D )[/quote]
[quote="blindpilot wrote:
...so as long as you have the air refueling, which Oz does, the direct 9 hr route is definitely plausible, even likely. No reason at all to doubt it.
BP


Now to clarify these "9" hour fights are not especially easy for the fighter guys especially when you get that radio call half way through from the tanker ..

"Well how's it going, just took over for the co-pilot, after that 2 hr nap, and the dinner from the oven, and the "rest break", so you chicks still hanging in there?"

Ouch,
BP
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Unread post12 Dec 2018, 21:19

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RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post13 Dec 2018, 00:39

:devil: There is a famous Ozzie song (at least to MY GENERATION) which goes 'Fool Fool Fool - everybody cries Fool Fool Fool' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8qwlNgujbQ just add the FUEL! :doh: ♫ Ray Brown & Whispers ♥ Fool, Fool, Fool ♫

How the Air Force got smarter about its aviation fuel use in 2018 12 Dec 2018 Corrie Poland
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... e-in-2018/ [very long artickle for de fuellies]
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post13 Dec 2018, 21:09

First F-35s Reach Australia; Tyndall Could Join F-35 Base Roster
12 Dec 2018 David Donald

"On December 10 the ninth and tenth Lockheed Martin F-35As for the Royal Australian Air Force arrived at RAAF Base Williamtown, New South Wales. With the RAAF’s previous eight F-35As having been retained with the U.S. Air Force’s 61st Fighter Squadron for training at Luke AFB, Arizona, the two aircraft are the first to enter service with the RAAF on home soil.

The pair flew in from Luke with a stopover at Hickam AFB, Hawaii, before flying to RAAF Amberley in Queensland in what is the longest sector yet flown by the F-35. They were joined by three F/A-18 Hornets from the remaining F/A-18A/B units (Nos 75 and 77 Squadrons, and 2 OCU) for the final flight into Williamtown…"

Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ase-roster
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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ricnunes

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Unread post14 Dec 2018, 20:42

:thumb:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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Unread post15 Dec 2018, 21:00

spazsinbad wrote::devil: There is a famous Ozzie song (at least to MY GENERATION) which goes 'Fool Fool Fool - everybody cries Fool Fool Fool' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8qwlNgujbQ just add the FUEL! :doh: ♫ Ray Brown & Whispers ♥ Fool, Fool, Fool ♫

How the Air Force got smarter about its aviation fuel use in 2018 12 Dec 2018 Corrie Poland
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... e-in-2018/ [very long artickle for de fuellies]

USAF aims to save fuel with new data collection effort
14 Dec 2018 Garrett Reim

"...The strategy is also changing the way the USAF flies. In recent years, the service directed fifth generation fighters to be flown closer to maximum range airspeed during coronet missions, flights which deliver or rotate aircraft to and from overseas bases. According to the USAF, the faster speed decreases overall fuel consumption by about 6%, and reduces flight hours by about 10%.

The USAF says it demonstrated the Lockheed Martin F-22 saving fuel with this higher airspeed method in 2017. And, this year, it was formalising the procedure and expanding it to include the Lockheed Martin F-35."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... fo-454455/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post16 Dec 2018, 00:29

"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post20 Dec 2018, 14:19

Missed this now OLD article from Retired AM Brown, the JERICHO RAAF BigWig, some interesting but vague details below.
Crafting a Fifth Generation Combat Force: The Perspective of Air Marshal (Retired) Geoff Brown
24 Nov 2018 Robbin Laird

"...For the last 5 – 10 years in Australia we have been determining the characteristics of combat operations in the post 2025 era. The RAAF we have been very fortunate to have been well supported and funded by government.

In the RAAF it’s been nice to say that most pieces of the future combat fleet are in place or that the funding has been secured. It will be a F-35’s supplemented by Super Hornets and they will well be supported by systems like Wedgetail, Growler, KC-30s, and air defence systems like Vigilaire and over-the-horizon radar, and I even think the Maritime Patrol Fleets, P-8s and Tritons, will all contribute to the air combat system…..

We have concluded in Australia, that air operations will be characterized by the capability to connect air, ground and maritime forces. In the ADF we have actually called that 5th Generation enabled CONOPs. The ultimate goal is that the combat and strike power of a single aircraft is not defined by what it carries itself but by its ability to direct and rely upon its network partners. Even to the point of using other platforms weapons. We have been in the process of developing 5th Gen CONOPS across the ADF informed by the forcing function of 5thGen aircraft and the associated air, maritime and land systems.

In a 5thGen force, C2 systems will be enabled by flying ISR and C2 system, the combination of sensors and Stealth will enable aircraft like the JSF to operate in an Adversaries airspace and allow aircraft to serve as nodes in a dispersed and distributed air battle management system….

One of the things that the critics of the F-35 don’t get is, in all the studies of air combat, the amazing statistic is that 5% of the pilots have taken 95% of the kills. Now, when you do the analysis of those 95% of the kills and what makes the difference with those 5% of pilots, it was their superior situational awareness in all the situations that they faced that made the difference. And the F-35 gives you a massive leap in situational awareness, and that’s the key factor in 5th generation capability. It’s the integrated fused picture.

It’s worth briefly working through the value chain of the F-35.... [READ IT ALL AT THE JUMP]

...We’re successfully fusing the picture between Wedgetail and the Navy Destroyers and Frigates. One of the great decisions we made with Wedgetail was that on each one of the crews there’s a Navy Air Intercept Controller. We’ve had Mission Commander who’s are Navy Lieutenant Commanders – and our recent experience on exercises and in Iraq and Syria with the Super Hornet and Wedgetail have really shown the power of that integration.

When you look at the F-35 be able to find, fix, track, target, engage and assess. That’s the cycle. The JSF can do that all by itself, but it is far more powerful if you look at the find and fix and you use a lot of the systems we’ve got from Vigilare to JORN to Space Based Systems, to maybe even the Triton and P-8.

They’re all part of that find and fix. And if I was to look at track – Wedgetail, AWD, Growler are all parts of that. The engage – well, that’s the job of Super Hornet, JSF and Growler, and what we aspire to is to have, some integrated fire control with the Royal Australian Navy. That’s all well within the realms of possibilities.

The more nodes you’ve got, the better off it is for the entire system. And what we see is the advantage of the F-35, it does increase the capability of the entire system…." THEN

"...“When we have an effective maritime strike weapon onboard the F-35, we will look to retire our Super Hornets, with the exception of the Growler. Flying the Super Hornet has prepared us for F-35 in some key ways, notably in terms of the security requirements necessary to manage data generated by the aircraft.”

Third, the 5thgen approach as characterized by Brown is a shift to working the interconnected force in a different way.

He provided an example with regard to CEC and the Air Warfare destroyer. “Our Navy has just started deploying our air warfare destroyers but we have already demonstrated CEC interoperability with the US Navy. “We will put CEC on our Wedgetails to be able to provide weapons quality tracks to our ships, hence enhancing significantly the range for the strike capability of our fleet.

“And as we go forward we will find ways to directly link our F-35s with the fleet as well. “Our Navy and Army are now focused on fifth generation communications with their platforms as well, which is why having the F-35 in the force can drive change in the strategic direction in which you want to go.

You fly a legacy asset you cannot drive the kind of change the ADF needs in the near to mid-term...."

Graphic: https://sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... eoff-1.jpg

Source: https://sldinfo.com/2018/11/crafting-a- ... off-brown/
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RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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