Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

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mixelflick

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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 14:25

Simulations show an F22 can shoot down two Su35s. One Su35 can shoot down 2.4 F35s. And one Su35 can shoot down eight F18 Super Hornets.

Wouldn't you just LOVE to know where they got these, "simulations". So if an F-22 can shoot down 2 SU-35's (and it has 6 missiles plus the gun left), it can't shoot down more? One SU-35 can shoot down 2.3 F-35's? A plane it can't see?? And BTW even if true, it'll have to do a lot better than 2.4 to make up for the 200 they're going to produce, vs. our 3,000.

As far as 1 SU-35 being able to down 8 Super Hornets, I don't even know what to say. The SH has it all over the SU-35 in its AESA radar, better BVR weapons like AIM-120D and no slouch when it comes to nose pointing authority/the 9x when it comes to WVR. It also likely has a smaller RCS.

I really wish I got high before reading those stats.Would make them more believable...
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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 14:38

Usual years old negative misinformed F-35 opinion that's been held over the years. As it happens F-35 instantaneous maneuverability is pretty good backed up by very pointy AoA ability, it can stop point and zoom as good any of its more vaunted opposition. Australia has a pretty good air defense, powerful OTH radar backed up by SH, Growlers, F-35. Only J-20 would even stand a chance in a BVR face off like that. Australia is like a prickly Porcupine, even Lions stay clear as it's not worth the hassle, who would venture all that way and for what benefit ? Probably only if it became a serious US base in a conflict would it become a target.
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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 16:21

Dear OLD Bailey is a typical OLD FOGIE misinformed by years and years of ignorant prejudice that he has not bothered to update. With only info from spurious sources such as WickedPedia, he recalls often incorrectly, it is sad. There are other silly errors in some of his other silly misinformed opinions that are megaphoned by equally misinformed Australian media. Somehow Bailey got into the limelight on TV/newspapers where his colourful opinions provide entertainment; but taken seriously by equally misinformed readers - because like SPREY - 'Bailey used to be somebody some 40 odd years ago now'.

I'm from the same era as Bailey as I have pointed out, however I've spent countless hours informing myself, as best I can, about all the issues around the F-35 (particularly the Naval Aviation aspect). Just understand that Bailey has a lot of commercial airline time and that is what he should comment upon, leaving military aviation to those who understand it TODAY, with the information available today, & yes often that may mean SERVING MILITARY AVIATION PEOPLE OF TODAY.

Bailey must be at least in his early 70s, flying often with ex-military people who ARE better informed about the F-35 but it seems he has his views from his past that have not changed with the new circumstances of today, nor will those views change I'll guess - because like Sprey - Bailey likes the attention and contrary views suit the MURDOCH print Newspapers.
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Unread post04 Nov 2018, 21:00

And another thing 'bout BAILEY (ain't inside knowledge GRAND!?). Being already an officer he was in the Officers Mess at Point Cook with our 67 course Academy Graduate officers including Chris Mills (I was in the cadet pilot mess). Mills has written extensively on the now defunct APA website with KOPP & GOON so most likely that place was an info gathering point for the idiotic BAILEY views (from years ago now). MILLS is/was our well known CONTRARIAN, as pointed out in earlier posts Chris could argue the contrary point all day long when just a simple question was asked. We learnt NEVER to ask him directly - ask one of the other Academy Grads but he (although a nice chap) would butt in & we would butt out.

Furthermore another Academy Grad on No.67 Pilot course became the head of the RAAF JSF selection cabal all those years ago now. He was at our recent reunion (last year at Point Cook however I did not attend for health reasons). I would have luvved to have heard some inside goss on F-35 if he would spill (not likely to a civvie though). :( :roll: Mills did not go.

AVM Ray Conroy - Head Aerospace Systems Division (1990–91): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R ... r_marshals
Market analysis JSF Report prepared for members of Dutch Parliament
Sep 2009 JOBO

"...Media briefing “F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft Media Briefing on Capabilities” by Colonel Dwyer Dennis, JSF Program Office (US) in Australia on 19-Aug-2002. Present were also AVM Ray Conroy (Leader Australian negotations), Air Commodore John Harvey (Leader Integrated Project Team)…." page 108 of 136

Source: https://www.infodefensa.com/wp-content/ ... S_JOBO.pdf (1.3Mb)

Can't figure this website out for JSF brief by AVM Conroy: https://wenku.baidu.com/view/cb63850716 ... 8fc5a.html
Last edited by spazsinbad on 05 Nov 2018, 12:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post05 Nov 2018, 10:30

knowan wrote:Older article from the same guy, also with The Australian, dated Feb 12 2016:


Thanks knowan, it's interesting how many such characters there seem to be in Australia...

F35 already behind as Russia leads arms race

As a former RAAF fighter pilot I am concerned for the future of our fighter force. We may be on track to procuring a very expensive lemon, one that is too costly to commit to battle, let alone a battlefield close air-support role where it would be exposed to defensive ground fire.


LOL and his solution is procuring even more expensive (life time costs) aircraft with much lower capabilities overall (Su-34 and Su-35)...

The Russians have been developing L-band radar, which reports suggest can detect a stealth fighter up to 169km away. Stealth was the great technological leap in air combat: the F117 Night Hawk of 1983 made an impressive debut in Baghdad.

But advances in technology are eating into its advantages. The F35 is also supposed to be stealthy, except when it is carrying external weapons. Reports suggest the Russian infra-red search and track will detect a F35 at 32km.


Even if true, those same L-band radars would detect Su-34 and Su-35 1690 km away... And same IRST system would detect Su-34/35 at least 100 km away. Of course F-35 carries IRST system which far outranges any Russian IRST system. Especially against Su-35/35 types. F-35 EOTS will likely detect Su-34/35 at least 200 km away with same probability as Su-35 OLS can detect F-35 32 km away.

The latest Sukhoi Flanker derivative Su35 — with its thrust-vectoring super manoeuvrability — renders obsolete conventional Western fourth-generation fighters that rely on aerodynamic manoeuvring.


LOL, how is thrust-vectoring super maneuverability somehow superior to aerodynamic super maneuverability if both can achieve similar results?

Also, the larger even more powerful Sukhoi PAK FA 50 is close to production.


Yeah, only a decade or two away...

Simulations show an F22 can shoot down two Su35s. One Su35 can shoot down 2.4 F35s. And one Su35 can shoot down eight F18 Super Hornets.


I think he is referring to these "simulations":
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Bu ... s/sub5.pdf

These were made by REPSIM (basically APA). Basically Su-35 and F-35 fly towards each other without any combat maneuvering and Su-35 has no trouble tracking and engaging them. Somehow stealth and EW capabilities of F-35 are totally inconsequential and Russian missiles have higher hit probability because F-35 has so poor performance (yeah, right). Su-35s carry 3 times the missiles, so because they fly higher and faster and have better maneuverability in the "simulation" they will win.

In air combat, most missiles miss due to the high and near instantaneous turn rate that modern fighters are capable of. But the F35 performs poorly at such manoeuvres.


:roll: I bet he has never seen F-35 maneuver.

Once missiles miss, then the merge develops — known colloquially to fighter pilots as the dogfight or furball — where guns still reign and sustained turn rate is paramount. The F15 was the former top dog of this but thrust-vectoring is now the name of the game.

Unfortunately, our F35 is just too small, underpowered and too expensive.

The Russians have the ideal set-up: big, combat-capable Su34 Strike fighter bombers accompanied by big, powerful Su35 air superiority fighters.

In this game of war, size and numbers matter.


LOL, so bigger is better in WVR combat along with guns... :roll:

First he talks about how sustained turn rate is paramount and then tells us that TVC is now the name of the game? :roll:
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knowan

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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 07:13

hornetfinn wrote:Thanks knowan, it's interesting how many such characters there seem to be in Australia...


It looks like there's a few other articles published in 2018 by The Australian about the F-35 that aren't negative, but I can't get past the paywall on any of them.

"F-35s will take immense pressure off fighter pilots" https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... 5b21431106

"F-35s have what it takes to hold their own" https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... 4ef6cfc969

"No dog, the F-35 is a silent, long range assassin hiding in the dark" https://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinio ... 5d459c3953

"End of the dogfight as fighters, pilots evolve" https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... 27ccb713ec
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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 07:44

Trust me, not missing much.

Articles written by ex-RAAF pilot/B777 captain Byron Bailey basically states in the 1st article that the F-35 will not impose as much G-stress on pilots compared to legacy aircraft without citing how.

2nd article
http://www.thefifthcolumn.xyz/Forum/vie ... =40&page=9

4th article:
http://www.thefifthcolumn.xyz/Forum/vie ... =66&page=5

See Spaz' comment on Bailey on Nov 4 before he barks at me again for not citing his sources first.
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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 08:04

Thanks 'weasel1962' I have to stop insulting entire countries (at this stage details unknown) so I guess I should not insult anyone else - thank you for the links - they are always appreciated because I myself do not have to go searching for them.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post07 Nov 2018, 10:52

weasel1962 wrote:Trust me, not missing much.

Articles written by ex-RAAF pilot/B777 captain Byron Bailey basically states in the 1st article that the F-35 will not impose as much G-stress on pilots compared to legacy aircraft without citing how.

2nd article
http://www.thefifthcolumn.xyz/Forum/vie ... =40&page=9

4th article:
http://www.thefifthcolumn.xyz/Forum/vie ... =66&page=5

See Spaz' comment on Bailey on Nov 4 before he barks at me again for not citing his sources first.


Thanks, they sound a bit less negative, but still misinformed and riddled with errors.
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Unread post10 Nov 2018, 22:05

RAAF Knuck 'RED' Sqdn Leader F-35A Under Training LUKE AFB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NimyONctBd0

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post15 Nov 2018, 20:13

As EFFIE would say: "HOW EMBARRASSMENT" - I'm cringing here: :doh: :roll: :shock:

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... -luke-afb/
"Royal Australian Air Force Air commodore Michael Kitcher presents a mateship statue to Col. Michael Renbarger, 56th Operations Group commander, at an Australian Mateship Event, Nov. 9, 2018, at Luke AFB, Ariz. Kitcher thanked Renbargar and members of Luke AFB for their training and hospitality in preparing No. 3 Squadron for the next step in the country’s F-35A program in Australia. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Jenna Bigham)" https://media.defense.gov/2018/Nov/15/2 ... 99-147.JPG (1.6Mb)
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Unread post28 Nov 2018, 16:44

I would have thought a 'deployable cabin' would be onboard a suitable aircraft carrier with Naval F-35s - but I DREAM....
Defence takes delivery of F-35 cabins
23 Nov 2018 ADM

"The first two of fifteen F-35A deployable cabins have been delivered to the ADF, marking an important milestone in the Australian JSF program. The Deployable Duty Facility (DDF) cabins are an essential component of the deployable information systems capability for the F-35, and are now undertaking fit-out at RAAF Base Williamtown.

“The deployable cabins are an evolutionary development and play a critical role in operating and maintaining Australia’s F-35 fleet whether from their home base or deployed further afield," Chief Executive of Lockheed Martin Australia Vince Di Pietro said. “When operating the F-35, off-board information systems are required to operate seamlessly in operational scenarios, and these Australian built and designed cabins make this possible,” Di Pietro explained.

“The standard ISO sized cabins meet the highest-level specifications for transport by air, land or sea, security and sustainment and their digital systems are optimised for ADF operations."...

...“All 15 deployable cabins will provide transportable, secure workspaces for personnel to support operations and maintenance activities as part of the future networked ADF. “What we delivered together was not just a secure environment for F-35 Joint Strike Fighter pilots to be briefed in; we delivered a real example of the federal government’s vision for Australia’s defence industry and its jobs and growth commitment to the country,” Jeff Phillips, Managing Director of Varley Group, said...."

Source: http://www.australiandefence.com.au/new ... -35-cabins
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post02 Dec 2018, 13:34

Controversial $125 million F35 stealth fighter jets to touch down in Australia
02 Dec 2018 Robert Penfold

"...this week the first two RAAF F35s are headed for their new home in Australia.... Wing Commander Darren Clare is one of the two Aussie pilots taking these first single seater F35s to their new home base. "It's absolutely a flying computer. A computer pretending to be an airplane," Clare said....

...The two F35s will spend several days making a relatively slow trip to Australia touching down in Hawaii and Guam as well as air to air refueling. They will land in Brisbane on December 10 before moving on to the F35 home base in Williamtown.""

Source: https://www.9news.com.au/2018/12/02/04/ ... -newcastle
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post03 Dec 2018, 00:03

spazsinbad wrote:
Controversial $125 million F35 stealth fighter jets to touch down in Australia
02 Dec 2018 Robert Penfold

"...this week the first two RAAF F35s are headed for their new home in Australia.... Wing Commander Darren Clare is one of the two Aussie pilots taking these first single seater F35s to their new home base. "It's absolutely a flying computer. A computer pretending to be an airplane," Clare said....

...The two F35s will spend several days making a relatively slow trip to Australia touching down in Hawaii and Guam as well as air to air refueling. They will land in Brisbane on December 10 before moving on to the F35 home base in Williamtown.""

Source: https://www.9news.com.au/2018/12/02/04/ ... -newcastle

This reeks of typical Murdoch Fake News. Other news outlets have the jets arriving at Amberley on Friday 7th after a 6.5 hr flight, then departing the morning of Monday the 10th for a 10am arrival at Willy. This makes more sense as having a couple of days built in for delays is a good thing, also the jets would have to leave pretty early for their 6.5hr flight to be able to land at Amberley then leave again for the hour flight to Willy for a 10am arrival.
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Unread post03 Dec 2018, 00:21

At that stage exact details would be vague however the two RAAF F-35As are due to start 03 Dec 2018 from Luke AFB.

https://www.luke.af.mil/News/Article-Di ... c-arrival/ 29 Nov 2018
Darren Clare flying into history, with ‘lucky’ red socks
30 Nov 2018 ByCameron Stewart

"...Weather permitting, they plan to take off from Luke on Monday morning US time (early Tuesday, Australian time) and fly for 6½ hours, with mid-air refuelling, to Hickam air force Base in Hawaii. The next day they plan to fly 8½ hours to Anderson air force base in Guam then, after a rest day, the final six hours to RAAF base Amberley, west of Brisbane. On Monday, December 10, the two F-35s will make a ceremonial flight from Amberley to their future base at RAAF base Williamtown in NSW accompanied by an escort of the planes they will replace — the F/A-18 classic Hornet that entered service in 1984....

...The arrival of the first two F-35s will be followed by another two planes in April and then a regular ferry of new planes until 2023-24 when the entire fleet will have arrived."

Source: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 5157806573
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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