Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

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SpudmanWP

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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 00:14

Dear Lord what uninformed drivel.

Three words: SATCOM (Blk4), MADL, Link-16

The last two work NOW and SATCOM is part of Blk4. Your Wedgetails can talk to the F-35 via Link-16 now and can use MADL if they walk over to Northrup Grumman and buy a Freedom 550 Terminal. An added "Interoperability" benefit of the Freedom550 is that it does the same for the F-22's IFDL datalink.
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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 00:18

That 'lack of network testing' is just FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt - the RAAF PLAN JERICHO is built on networking - so there is that 'neglect' (if correct but I doubt it). A RAAF tanker is already in US testing with F-35s. JOINER is raging about the RAAF lack of participation in US T&E NOW - so be it. TREVITHICK misrepresents situation methinks - headline shows it?
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popcorn

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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 00:32

Joiner is Gilmore's Oz' cousin. :D
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les_paul59

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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 00:58

All of these ex military officials who aren't in the loop anymore just trying have their opinion heard. It must be so insulting to the people who actually get paid to make these procurement decisions to have to deal with the utter BS that comes out about this jet everyday :bang: Apparently all the leaders of the major air forces in the world have been sold a false bill of goods by the insidious lockheed martin corporation lol.... or its just a very capable jet, i can't make my mind up yet :?
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 00:58

Further, for an unknown reason, the 14 early aircraft were purchased for aircrew training and not destined (permitted) to do T&E.


I'd love to see the source where he thinks that the US can tell the RAAF what it can do with their own aircraft.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 03:03

maus92 wrote:Aussie Who Led Weapons Tests Knocks F-35
Official urges Australia to take a bigger role in the fighter project or pull out
Joseph Trevithick | WIB

"Australia’s former top weapons tester has warned of serious problems with the country’s $24 billion share of the F-35 stealth fighter program.

The ex-official, Keith Joiner, issued the warnings in a Jan. 4 letter to the Australian Senate’s formal inquiry into the Joint Strike Fighter project. Joiner’s biggest criticisms involve the F-35’s repeated delays, lack of Australian input in the project and the fighter’s powerful computer brain.

The retired official wrote that Canberra must either speak out about the stealth warplane’s problems or pull out of the project. He also favors delaying Australia’s commitment until developer Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon prove the F-35 will deliver on its promises.

“Put simply — get in or get out!” Joiner declared. “Stop being naive that just because something should work it will work.”"

"But for Australia, the software may be one of the JSF’s biggest liabilities, according to Joiner. To ma"

ke the most of these features, the stealth jet’s gear will have to be compatible with the RAAF’s existing aircraft, such as the E-7 Wedgetail radar plane. The F-35s will need powerful and reliable linkages to get all this information in near real time and properly “fuze” everything together.

But Australia has cut or scaled back its own work on new data links and improved satellite communications systems. If the E-7 and sites on the ground can’t “talk” with the new planes, the JSF’s biggest advantage is suddenly … moot...."

"...based on his experience, Joiner said he felt Australia’s F-35 project officers were “timid,” “defensive” and unwilling to raise concerns either internally or with their American counterparts. In the letter, he described the officers as having a “‘passenger mentality’ with respect to the U.S. ‘driver.'”"

"“All of Australia’s decisions, including full production approval by our government, have so far been made while the aircraft is still under U.S. development,” Joiner wrote. “The obvious first logic” would be to hold off until the Americans get their act together, he added."

"Instead of just sitting on the sidelines, Joiner stressed that Australian officials should work closely with their American partners. The letter offered up the development and testing of the P-8 maritime patrol plane as a counter example, which involved an Australian team embedded with their American counterparts during the testing phase. The RAAF now expects to get the first of those planes in 2016, a reasonable four years after fully committing to the project.

“This exemplary … strategy stands in stark contrast to what Australia has pursued with the JSF,” Joiner wrote...."

http://warisboring.com/articles/aussie- ... ocks-f-35/

So...?
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popcorn

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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 06:08

It would probably be more relevant to know what Joiner's replacement thinks.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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hornetfinn

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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 08:59

After reading the letter Keith Joiner has written, I think War Is Boring has made some major distortions what is actually said in the letter (big surprise!). WIB has taken some sentences totally out of context (another big surprise!). To me it seems more that Keith Joiner is not criticizing F-35 program much at all and more questioning how Australia is participating. Even program delays are not criticized really but rather used to create context to his letter. He recommends actually participating more closely in the F-35 program and also developing joint enablers like datalinks and participating in threat library development.

My quotes from Keith Joiner:
Australia to immediately commence negotiations to join the developmental T&E of the JSF regardless
of how long that development is estimated to continue.


Australia to make available whatever JSF aircraft assets it has and a sizable and proportionate
developmental test team3 to the U.S. to assist in completing the development.


Australia to independently review,4 with U.S. technical and operational assistance from the affected
U.S. commands, Australia’s joint enablers for JSF and its supporting aircraft (i.e., AEW&C & MRTT) to
operate throughout the region and at sustained operational tempo,


I wish
the Committee and indeed the JSF project every success in its efforts
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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 17:14

Folks, any bashing in the media about the F-35 now is completely irrelevant. We have seen zero of the main concerns come to fruition. The project is large, expensive and behind schedule....as these projects always are. This article is just another douchebag non-military, non-engineer, non-aviation, non-scientist kiddo "journalist" piece of crap. It is a willful distortion of Mr. Joiner's words and what they actually imply in reality.

Of course Australia will gun for a bigger role in the project. That is in their interest. Will they get one?

That's what Joiner is going at here. He is pushing for a stronger Aussie role in the F-35 and to ensure it is sufficiently integrated into the RAAF. Nothing wrong with that! I wish our brothers in Australia well and hope they are successful.

Give them all of the Canadian contracts and make an example out of Canada. That's what I would do (apologies to our Canadian brothers in arms). Btw, isn't Justin Trudeau just about the most punchable politician ever, or is it just me?
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Unread post27 Jan 2016, 21:40

RAAF Tanker Qualifies F-35A air to air refuelling Edwards AFB video (noted elsewhere today) - how did they communicate?

JSF ITF F-35 2015 Year In Review https://youtu.be/WQE2mnpTrx0?t=285

'Dragon029' posted original video here today: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28502&p=314304&hilit=unreleased#p314304
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XanderCrews

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Unread post28 Jan 2016, 00:15

hornetfinn wrote:After reading the letter Keith Joiner has written, I think War Is Boring has made some major distortions what is actually said in the letter (big surprise!). WIB has taken some sentences totally out of context (another big surprise!). To me it seems more that Keith Joiner is not criticizing F-35 program much at all and more questioning how Australia is participating. Even program delays are not criticized really but rather used to create context to his letter. He recommends actually participating more closely in the F-35 program and also developing joint enablers like datalinks and participating in threat library development.

My quotes from Keith Joiner:
Australia to immediately commence negotiations to join the developmental T&E of the JSF regardless
of how long that development is estimated to continue.


Australia to make available whatever JSF aircraft assets it has and a sizable and proportionate
developmental test team3 to the U.S. to assist in completing the development.


Australia to independently review,4 with U.S. technical and operational assistance from the affected
U.S. commands, Australia’s joint enablers for JSF and its supporting aircraft (i.e., AEW&C & MRTT) to
operate throughout the region and at sustained operational tempo,


I wish
the Committee and indeed the JSF project every success in its efforts



Wow, so a more proper headline would be "Australian tester emphatically endorses greater participation in JSF"

Thanks Maus, I would have missed this if not for you, and a big thanks to hornetfinn
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cosmicdwarf

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Unread post28 Jan 2016, 00:35

So...apparently some former RAAF still want to get the F-22 instead of the F-35.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... ee66bc5236

Australia will never achieve regional air superiority with the new Lockheed F-35 Lightning Joint Strike Fighter and should instead look to the US F-22 Raptor, a former RAAF officer says.

Retired Wing Commander Chris Mills said the F-35 was never designed to achieve air superiority and was outclassed by advanced new Russian aircraft entering service in regional air forces.

In a submission to a Greens-instigated Senate inquiry examining acquisition of the F-35, he said the F-22, now in service with the US Air Force, was designed to dominate the skies.

Production of the F-22 ended in 2011 and in any case US law specifically bans exports.

Mr Mills said the answer to providing Australia and other western countries with a superior future air combat capability was to bring the F-22 back into production.

“To those who say it can’t be done, my answer is that USAF has kept all the production tooling with capacity for several hundred new aircraft to be built,” he said.

Aeronautical engineer Danny Nowlan said advances in radar technology would soon erode the F-35’s stealth capability while the aircraft’s basic design was fundamentally broken and couldn’t be fixed.

“The alternative to the F-35 is to restart F-22 Raptor production and for the US Congress to release it for export,” he said.

“When it comes to modern fighters the F-22 Raptor is the platinum standard.” Australia plans to acquire 72 F-35 aircraft and maybe as many as 100. So far just two have been delivered.

The RAAF plans to have its first two F-35 squadrons ready for operations in 2020.

Development of this advanced stealth aircraft has been beset by delays, technical problems and cost increases.

JSF was chosen for the RAAF because of its ability to perform a number of different roles, including bombing missions.

Another former RAAF officer, retired Wing Commander Anthony Wilkinson, a former F-111 navigator, said JSF’s range was too short and its bombload too small for it to be a proper strike aircraft. “I would argue that defence planners have lost the plot,” he said in his submission.
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Unread post28 Jan 2016, 01:11

cosmicdwarf wrote:So...apparently some former RAAF still want to get the F-22 instead of the F-35.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... ee66bc5236

Australia will never achieve regional air superiority with the new Lockheed F-35 Lightning Joint Strike Fighter and should instead look to the US F-22 Raptor, a former RAAF officer says.

Retired Wing Commander Chris Mills said the F-35 was never designed to achieve air superiority and was outclassed by advanced new Russian aircraft entering service in regional air forces.

In a submission to a Greens-instigated Senate inquiry examining acquisition of the F-35, he said the F-22, now in service with the US Air Force, was designed to dominate the skies.

Production of the F-22 ended in 2011 and in any case US law specifically bans exports.

Mr Mills said the answer to providing Australia and other western countries with a superior future air combat capability was to bring the F-22 back into production.

“To those who say it can’t be done, my answer is that USAF has kept all the production tooling with capacity for several hundred new aircraft to be built,” he said.

Aeronautical engineer Danny Nowlan said advances in radar technology would soon erode the F-35’s stealth capability while the aircraft’s basic design was fundamentally broken and couldn’t be fixed.

“The alternative to the F-35 is to restart F-22 Raptor production and for the US Congress to release it for export,” he said.

“When it comes to modern fighters the F-22 Raptor is the platinum standard.” Australia plans to acquire 72 F-35 aircraft and maybe as many as 100. So far just two have been delivered.

The RAAF plans to have its first two F-35 squadrons ready for operations in 2020.

Development of this advanced stealth aircraft has been beset by delays, technical problems and cost increases.

JSF was chosen for the RAAF because of its ability to perform a number of different roles, including bombing missions.

Another former RAAF officer, retired Wing Commander Anthony Wilkinson, a former F-111 navigator, said JSF’s range was too short and its bombload too small for it to be a proper strike aircraft. “I would argue that defence planners have lost the plot,” he said in his submission.


Totally delusional.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post28 Jan 2016, 01:12

Back in the thread there were responses to the MILLS submission hence this recent article pointed to on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23043&p=313822&hilit=nonstarter#p313822 [i.e. No Raptors for Oz]

And the Mills and Price submissions pointed out when first seen many moons ago on this thread - however I personally was not going to critique them word for word. Submissions are received and published - which has no bearing on their worth:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23043&p=312925&hilit=mills+academy#p312925 [how it started]
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Unread post28 Jan 2016, 03:21

popcorn wrote:Joiner is Gilmore's Oz' cousin. :D


Not so fast there. From the letter, it looks like Joiner actually supports the JSF, and in fact, the letter recommends that Australia be more involved with its development, not less. The quotes from Hornetfinn above are actually Joiner's recommendations to the Australian Senate Inquiry.

So it looks like it's just typical War Is Boring spinning any document they can get their hands on as being anti-F-35 by pulling quotes out of context, like the F-16 vs F-35 "dogfight". I gave a longer post about it here.
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