Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

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KamenRiderBlade

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Unread post11 Mar 2016, 19:48

XanderCrews wrote:
KamenRiderBlade wrote:Under Australian Law, can the APA not be prosecuted for repeatedly lying to the public?


They aren't worth the hassle. Seriously. They are more harmful to themselves wasting their lives and retirement than making then "martyrs" once the mean old government sues them for "telling the truth"

They are wasting their own lives. Let them.

At its heart, what makes APA different from any other "this is my favorite airplane and its better than everyone else's for various reasons some more legitimate fanboy site out there?"

The only thing that makes APA different is they get TV coverage and Internet coverage.
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Unread post15 Mar 2016, 03:29

Spaz referred to the ASPI submission earlier in this thread. They have reposted much of the content of their submission on their website.http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/f-35-k ... ve-a-plan/
If their fear is the proliferation of stealth fighters from non-western players, and counter stealth radar, I don't get why super hornets are a solution in either capabilities or cost (savings to be put into next gen fighter).
Overall though seems a reasonably even-handed approach (in my amature opinion).
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XanderCrews

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Unread post15 Mar 2016, 03:47

brucealrighty wrote:Spaz referred to the ASPI submission earlier in this thread. They have reposted much of the content of their submission on their website.http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/f-35-k ... ve-a-plan/
If their fear is the proliferation of stealth fighters from non-western players, and counter stealth radar, I don't get why super hornets are a solution in either capabilities or cost (savings to be put into next gen fighter).
Overall though seems a reasonably even-handed approach (in my amature opinion).


I don't understand the idea that if we fielded JSF according to plan. (2012 not 2007 as thr link says) why the enemy wouldn't be exactly where they are now in terms of countermeasures.

What is the idea that Th3 F-35 being delayed 5-6 years has made it more vulnerable come from? I don't get that.
The notion is the longer it's delayed the more the enemy is developing countermeasures they were going to develop anyway for a jet that is expected to be In service for 50 years as it is?

Everyone saying the JSF is terrible then in the next breath it's not here fast enough, in the mean time the JSF is getting more vulnerable, while legacy platforms are not?
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spazsinbad

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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 03:32

'jessmo111' asked elsewhere: "Hey, Spaz when will your country, finally have the F-35A arrive? I know youve accepted one, but im not sure they are in country."

THEN: http://www.raaa.com.au/convention/2012/ ... y-RAAF.pdf (5.3Mb)

THEN: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=20195&p=256245&hilit=Osley#p256245

Some F-35As will arrive in 2018 for our own OT&E as seen in the graphic for IOC in 2020. Please put all data/questions concerning Oz F-35As in an appropriate thread. For example the first URL in this post.

TWO RAAF F-35As are at LUKE AFB for training duties today.
Attachments
RAAFtrainF-35AscheduleStates2020.gif
Last edited by spazsinbad on 17 Mar 2016, 03:53, edited 1 time in total.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 03:42

It would be nice, to have your live impressions at 1st touch down spaz. :D It would make you some what of a message board celebrity.
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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 03:49

Nope I will not be there. I will be there when the first Oz F-35B VLs aboard an Oz LHD - which is never. I will not be there. I have never seen a Hornet - not even from a distance. RAAF aircraft are a dime a dozen - somewhat. Maybe I'll hear/see an F-35A transiting via Richmond AFB or doing some night instrument navigation with their beacons/approaches. That's it.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 06:44

Three more new submissions, with no.51 missing to date. Don't bother reading anything new IMHO.

http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Bus ... ubmissions
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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jessmo111

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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 07:17

spazsinbad wrote:Nope I will not be there. I will be there when the first Oz F-35B VLs aboard an Oz LHD - which is never. I will not be there. I have never seen a Hornet - not even from a distance. RAAF aircraft are a dime a dozen - somewhat. Maybe I'll hear/see an F-35A transiting via Richmond AFB or doing some night instrument navigation with their beacons/approaches. That's it.


Sir, I think you would make a great blogger, and wouldn't mind you giving it a go, with some light camping out, and a few pictures here, and there. You would be #TheaustralianfaceoftheF-35blogesphere! And create a great counter balance to Hot air power Australia. :D
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optimist

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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 09:05

spazsinbad wrote:Three more new submissions, with no.51 missing to date. Don't bother reading anything new IMHO.

http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Bus ... ubmissions

55 is from ADF, 51 could be NFP and in camera
I see northrop put one in. It's a shame it went in so soon, from tomorrow Sweetman, as he would say will be shilling for them. I'm waiting to see his first praise piece about the f-35.
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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 15:23

On page 21 of this thread there was wondering about ''turd". Here is another reference by 'horde' (who is GOON?). Anyhoo:
'horde' 17 May 2016 comment: "Yep, that's right, I am what you call an Aerospace Engineer. I am also a Flight Test Engineer, having graduated from United States Naval Test Pilot School (though, a tad further ago than I would care to remember) and have been working in Flight Test ever since.

As mates at the old USAF FWS started saying from 2004 on, what they call "the Little Turd" had passed its used-by-date by the end of 2002 after LM/Ft Wuuf finally got around to signing the SDD contract.

All you wanted to know about the F-35 JSF but were too scared to ask is being revealed during the Senate Inquiry underway down-under into the JSF enterprise thingy that bears all the hallmarks of one huge ponzi scheme.

To prepare for the fun, suggest taking a browse through the Inquiry website, starting with the Additional Documents page. A little bit of googling should get you there. Enjoy.... [NAH doan bother - youse are here :devil: ]

Source: COMMENTS: http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-ej ... year-s-end
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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XanderCrews

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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 16:55

spazsinbad wrote:On page 21 of this thread there was wondering about ''turd". Here is another reference by 'horde' (who is GOON?). Anyhoo:
'horde' 17 May 2016 comment: "Yep, that's right, I am what you call an Aerospace Engineer. I am also a Flight Test Engineer, having graduated from United States Naval Test Pilot School (though, a tad further ago than I would care to remember) and have been working in Flight Test ever since.

As mates at the old USAF FWS started saying from 2004 on, what they call "the Little Turd" had passed its used-by-date by the end of 2002 after LM/Ft Wuuf finally got around to signing the SDD contract.

All you wanted to know about the F-35 JSF but were too scared to ask is being revealed during the Senate Inquiry underway down-under into the JSF enterprise thingy that bears all the hallmarks of one huge ponzi scheme.

To prepare for the fun, suggest taking a browse through the Inquiry website, starting with the Additional Documents page. A little bit of googling should get you there. Enjoy.... [NAH doan bother - youse are here :devil: ]

Source: COMMENTS: http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-ej ... year-s-end


Horde=Goon

Fun to see all the revisionist history. He is an aero engineer? What did he design? Oh a p-3 cargo pan? Wow
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Unread post17 Mar 2016, 23:15

When is this long drawn out saga going to end, it's becoming boring, makes Australia look like idiots and is drawing out basement dwellers like flies to dead fish.
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Unread post18 Mar 2016, 07:56

All the numbers 1 to 55 are in now so perhaps this is the last? THE 'Last' No. 51 by John DONAHOO has this phrase in it:
"...A separate confidential submission provides comment on the possible acquisition of some F-35B aircraft by Australia...." [groan :mrgreen: ]

Source: http://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ash ... bId=409414 (22Kb)

DOAN ask me - this is the confidential submission:
"Introduction
This submission complements my public submission and canvases the possible acquisition by Australia of the F35-B STOVL variant. The deficiencies of the F-35 as a primary air defence aircraft have been well documented, but the F-35B variant may have a role as a long-range strike aircraft as outlined below.

Landing Helicopter Docks (LHD)
The acquisition of the two 28,000 tonne LHDs, HMAS Canberra and HMAS Adelaide has given Australia the opportunity to provide our Navy with organic air combat aircraft cover at large distances from Australia, and our Air Force with a long-range strike capability by using land based F35-Bs. To achieve these two goals, up to 20 F-35Bs would be needed as well as the following modifications to one or both LHDs:

a. Provide Thermion decking to enable the decks to withstand the high temperatures from the F-35B engines.
b. Provide increased Aviation Turbine Fuel (AVTUR) fuel storage from 800 tonnes (1 ML) to about 2000 tonnes (2.5 ML).
c. Provide increased weapons storage.
d. Provide an unspecified upgrade to Air Traffic Control systems.

In the current strategic and financial circumstances, achieving the above two goals in the short term may be near impossible. However, the long-range strike capability is achievable with the acquisition of F-35Bs and the use of the existing and proposed RAAF Air to Air Refuelling (AAR) capability. The only upgrade required for the LHDs would be the provision of Thermion decking.

Air to Air Refuelling
The fundamental rule to be followed in AAR is just common sense, and that is if an aerial refuel is unsuccessful, then the receptor aircraft needs to have sufficient fuel reserves available to land somewhere. Accordingly, AAR increases the radius of action of combat aircraft by about 40% and for the F-35B, the radius of action then increases from about 450 nautical miles (nm) to about 700 nm compared to the radius of action of about 850 nm for the F-35A with AAR. However, AAR increases the ferry range of the F-35B with a full load of explosive ordnance to about 1400 nm. Therefore with two LHDs judiciously placed and acting only as emergency recovery runways, the range of the land based F-35B with AAR is then theoretically 1400 + 1400 + 700 = 3500 nm. That is the distance from Darwin to southern China, or to southern India.
The radius of action of 3500 nm of the F-35B may be reduced to about 2500 nm or possibly less due to the following:

a. Inability to place the LHDs in optimum locations.
b. Limits on aircrew flight time.
c. Insufficient AAR capability.
d. Other unknown factors.

Conclusions and Recommendations
The F-35B can increase the long-range strike capability from our shores from a distance of 850 nm to possibly 2500 nm when used in conjunction with existing LHDs and existing and planned AAR. Therefore, Australia should consider the acquisition of up to 20 F35-B aircraft and the provision of Thermion decking to our two LHDs. Moreover, should strategic circumstances change in the future, Australia would then be well placed to provide organic air combat aircraft cover for the Navy by upgrading the existing LHDs as described in the foregoing.

John Donahoo FIE(Aust) Joint Strike Fighter Submission 51 - Supplementary

Source: http://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ash ... bId=409414 (PDF 21Kb)
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post21 Mar 2016, 01:01

Submission No.56 (now 56/56 on website) by him.
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE | ORAL TESTIMONY FOR THE AUSTRALIAN PARLIAMENT SENATE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE | SUBJECT: F-35 Lightning II Program Update
25 Feb 2016 ORAL STATEMENT OF: Lieutenant General Christopher C. Bogdan, USAF Program Executive Officer, F-35

"...On the cost front, the price of purchasing F-35s continues to decline steadily Lot after Lot. For example, the price of a Lot 7 aircraft was 4.7 percent less than a lot 6 aircraft, and a Lot 8 aircraft was approximately 3.6 percent less than a Lot 7 aircraft. I fully expect this trend to continue well into the future. Today an F-35A costs around $108 million U.S. Dollars. I anticipate that by 2019 an F-35A with an engine, industry’s fee, in FY19 dollars will cost around $85 million U.S. dollars.

The Lot 10 contract which we are negotiating right now includes 8 F-35As for the Royal Australian Air Force. Today, working with the Royal Australian Air Force, we plan to deliver the first two F-35As to Royal Australian Air Force Base Williamtown in December 2018. Upon first aircraft arrival, Australian Operational Test and Evaluation will commence toward validating the F-35A capability against Australia’s requirements. Williamtown will also host Australia’s first training squadron--Number Two Operational Conversion Unit--and your first operational squadron --Three Squadron. In addition to the F-35A aircraft, Australia will be receiving significant training capability at Williamtown, including six Full Mission Simulators. Given that we estimate the full final capability of the F-35A to be fielded in the fall of 2017, I believe Australia’s timelines and schedule for IOC in 2020 are considered a low risk with schedule margin for any unforeseen issues...."

Source: http://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ash ... bId=410840 (PDF 67Kb)
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post21 Mar 2016, 02:45

So theoretically we should be able to watch / listen to Parliamentary hearings tomorrow here (between 9AM and 5PM AEDT):
http://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/Watch_Parliament

Schedule / program: http://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ash ... ions=false
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