Australian lawmakers confident in F-35's future

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SpudmanWP

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Unread post08 Feb 2016, 16:28

The solution is simple... Buy the FKING plane already.

The only difference from an F-35A Blk 3i and an F-35A 3F is a software patch which can be done at their home base in AU.

Is there an outside chance that it might require a minor hardware change? Not likely before it leaves the factory. Don't forget that there is a 3 year lead time from order to delivery (1yr Long Lead & 2yr production). That means that if they ordered it today it would not leave the factory floor till after 3F SDD is done.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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Unread post08 Feb 2016, 19:22

I like this claim:
"...The same issue haunted the F-111 strike fighter, which was kept in service a decade after it had become­ too obsolescent to be sent into battle...."..."
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XanderCrews

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Unread post08 Feb 2016, 20:38

spazsinbad wrote:I like this claim:
"...The same issue haunted the F-111 strike fighter, which was kept in service a decade after it had become­ too obsolescent to be sent into battle...."..."


Don't tell APA!! Lmao
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Unread post10 Feb 2016, 06:27

spazsinbad wrote:
Sub No.12 by Mr Marcus Kollakides"
"1. About the Author: Marcus Kollakides is a primary producer [of bona fide cow manure] :mrgreen: and also proprietor of a web based business for rural services and products. He has a degree in political science and international relations with special interest in defence as it affects the shifting balance of power in the Asia Pacific.
http://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ash ... bId=408351 (PDF 193Kb)




Wow that Submission #12 showed a serious lack of understanding of actual history.
He went on and on and on about how the F-111 was such a great design because it was started right from the beginning as a pure single role aircraft:

The F111 was a brilliantly designed single purpose aircraft
with variable wing geometry, two powerful engines and all the basic
ingredients for success built into its shape and engine capabilities.
Put simply, this meant that all the sophisticated radars, weapons
and avionics etc. fitted to it, were in fact being fitted to the
fundamentally excellent design of the F111.


Doesn't he get it that there was this thing called the TFX project that the USAF and USN labored under starting in 61? In November 1962, McNamara selected General Dynamics' proposal due to its greater commonality between Air Force and Navy versions.

at best can only hide from some, not all, Russian
radars, and only then when searched across a tiny 19 degrees of
the head on position. For the other 341 degrees of the horizon, the
F35 is easily located, targeted, attacked and destroyed.


Does anyone know where this guy is basing the 19 degree junk from? I get that he kind of pulled it out of a dark hole but probably it was based on an initial fact of some kind???
Daddy why do we have to hide? Because we use VI son, and they use windows.
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Unread post10 Feb 2016, 06:47

Sounds to me like an old APA furphy (remembering "one cannot look at a photo/drawing & work out the degree of stealth" - so sayeth Gen. Bogdan). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furphy
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Unread post10 Feb 2016, 10:41

I'm amazed how much pure BS from idiots The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee in Australian Senate must go through... :shock:
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popcorn

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Unread post13 Feb 2016, 02:15

MoD gives DOT&E the Aussie salute.

http://www.australiandefence.com.au/new ... lian-f-35s

An update on Australian F-35s
12 Feb 2016
The F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter program has been heralding more milestones following recent concerns raised by the Pentagon's chief tester in the annual report to US Congress.
The controversial program has achieved 50,000 flight hours and an Italian built F-35A has completed the first Transatlantic ocean crossing, en route to joining its US-built counterparts as part of the training fleet.
ADM received a response from Defence in relation to questions posed on the risk delays to the Block 3F software development presented to Australia's own tranche of aircraft.
"The Australian Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program has been structured to enable the issues raised in the annual Director Operational Test & Evaluation (DOTE) report to be resolved before IOC is declared in 2020," a Defence spokesperson said.

"The schedule for completion of operational Test and Evaluation is being closely managed by the F-35 Joint Program Office in consultation with Partners and industry.
"Australia has staff embedded in the F-35 Test and Evaluation Program, who represent Australia’s interests and work as part of the broader program outcomes. This day to day engagement provides confidence and insight that enables Australia to understand the implications of issues as they arise and put them in the broader context of the Australian F-35 program.
"While the DOT&E reports on the performance of the test and evaluation program by 'exception', it does not mention the significant milestones and positive progress achieved by the Program over recent years.
"In regards to milestones specific to Australia’s program:
Australia’s first two JSF aircraft were delivered to the international Pilot Training Centre (PTC) at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona in December 2014 and are proving to be some of the most reliable and available in the aircraft pool at the international F-35 PTC. Australia’s next eight aircraft will be delivered to the PTC in 2018.
Australia’s first two pilots are instructing international F-35 students at the international Pilot Training Centre.
In late 2015, the Australian KC-30A successfully completed testing for air-to-air refuelling with a United States Air Force (USAF) F-35A, which was a significant milestone in demonstrating interoperability and preparing for the ferry of Australia’s first two aircraft.
To date, Australian industry has won more that $US550 million in production and development contracts through the program. Australia has also been assigned regional F-35 depot maintenance responsibilities for airframe and engine.
"The Australian F-35 capability is achieving positive progress and is on track towards meeting Australia’s Initial Operating Capability (IOC) requirements by the end of 2020. The first two aircraft are scheduled to arrive in Australia in late 2018.
"The program is arguably the most global, highly complex and technically advanced Defence acquisition program ever undertaken."
The spokesperson confirmed the first two Australian aircraft to arrive in country at the end of 2018 are planned to be fitted with Block 3F software, that which has been the source of contention with the DOT&E. The director, Michael Gilmore, has said the JPO’s current plan to finish work on the software — the final software block required for full warfighting capability — by July 31, 2017 was “not realistic”.
Two F-35s will feature at UK airshows this year and while the Defence spokesperson could not confirm it, there are hopes that the aircraft will be represented at Avalon 2017.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post13 Feb 2016, 02:46

Thanks 'popcorn' - it seems the info is getting out ahead of the Oz Senate Enquiry. Meanwhile some more info - bit by bit:
Counting the JSF cost is tricky business
Feb 2016 ADM Julian Kerr

"...The total approved Australian JSF budge is currently $17.7 billion, a figure adjusted for December 2015 exchange rates from the original figure of $15.4 billion. Based on current projections, the average unit cost of an Australian F-35A is estimated to be US$90 million, AVM Deeble said....

...Data will be sent from the servers to national Central Point of Entry (CPE) servers, in Australia's case at RAAF Williamtown, that will centralise and act as the repository for sovereign data.

From each CPE a core data set will be shared with the Global Sustainment Kit at a Lockheed Martin facility in Fort Worth which houses Autonomic Logistics Operating Unit servers and is intended to provide data to manage and support a global fleet of around 3,100 aircraft.

While AVM Deeble confirmed some robust discussion amongst the nine partners - "could probably regard the US Air Force, US Navy and US Marine Corps as separate entities, making it 11" - these primarily centred on ALIS functionality rather than differences on the transfer of sovereign data.

"When parts an pulled off the aircraft and put back into ALIS they're not owned by us, they're owned by the US goverment as part of the global spares pool. It's nothing like we do business today and operating the system requires changes in both business processes and culture."...

...While F-1lls used to fly two miles from each other, the RAAF's JSF fighting methodology would probably start with a three-ship formation flying tens of miles apart but operating in concert, exchanging and fusing data from each other over a much larger area of airspace.

"But the real power of this aircraft will be once you start utilising a four ship formation and integrating it as envisaged in Plan Jericho with other capabilities like Wedgetail, Poseidon, Triton, Growler, Super Hornet and the Air Warfare Destroyer."

Interoperability across key JSF-equipped allies such as the US and UK was also fundamental to Plan Jericho, and would be advanced conceptually by joint simulation and experimentation."

Source: http://www.australiandefence.com.au/home/adm-editions
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Unread post15 Feb 2016, 23:27

Fortunately there is actual planning and real work being done to transition the RAAF into a 5Gen combat force regardless of the ongoing dog-and-pony show in Parliament.


http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... 35-choices

Australian Air Force Must Make Careful F-35 Choices
The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) is preparing to receive its first squadron of 14 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning IIs in-country in late 2018. They will be preceded by a squadron of 12 Boeing EF-18G Growlers that will arrive next year.

Like other air arms receiving advanced combat aircraft from the U.S., the RAAF must make careful choices about weapons and software commonality, and training, if costs are to be restrained. Air Commodore Mike Kitcher, the RAAF’s director general capability planning, provided some insight into the issues for delegates attending The International Fighter Conference in London last November.

“I don’t think we could repeat our F-18 Classic experience on the F-35; a higher-complexity platform with multiple security layers,” Kitcher said. He was referring to the RAAF’s choice of some unique weapons to arm its F/A-18A/B Hornets, 75 of which were acquired and entered service in the 1980s. They were the MBDA ASRAAM (advanced short range air-to-air missile), the Lockheed Martin JASSM (joint air-to-surface standoff missile), and the extended-range (ER) version of the JDAM (joint direct attack munition). None of these weapons are in the U.S. Navy’s Classic Hornet inventory, and Australian engineers made “some startling discoveries” during the integration process, Kitcher added. And although the wide-open spaces of the Woomera range were available, “flight-testing 200- to 300-km-range weapons is a considerable challenge,” he noted...The intent is for our weapons to remain as closely aligned to the U.S. F-35 as possible,” Kitcher said. ..

For maritime strike, the RAAF wants “a quality missile that can be carried internally,” Kitcher said. The two current options for the F-35 are the Norwegian Joint Strike Missile (JSM) or the Turkish Stand-Off Missile (SOM-J..

Kitcher said the RAAF is aware that it will be impossible to generate all the potential F-35 operating scenarios in live flying training, due to the “challenging security implications.” There will be a heavy reliance on live, virtual and constructive (LVC) training to generate the necessary complexities, he added.
Last edited by popcorn on 15 Feb 2016, 23:59, edited 1 time in total.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post15 Feb 2016, 23:45

Thanks 'popcorn' - interesting last few sentences from above also: [often it is said 50/50 actual/sim flying hours per pilot]
"...The service will aim to provide its F-35 pilots with 150 hours’ flying each year, plus 100 hours in simulators.

Kitcher said the RAAF is aware that it will be impossible to generate all the potential F-35 operating scenarios in live flying training, due to the “challenging security implications.” There will be a heavy reliance on live, virtual and constructive (LVC) training to generate the necessary complexities, he added."
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Unread post16 Feb 2016, 01:01

Another "defence analyst" opines. Good grief. :doh:


http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-1 ... ng/7167216

Defence analyst warns Joint Strike Fighters may have trouble starting

A defence analyst says a "bizarre" logistics system could ground Joint Strike Fighter jets headed to the Williamtown Air Force base in New South Wales, even if the planes are fit to fly.

Analyst David Archibald has lodged a submission to a Senate inquiry into Australia's Joint Strike Fighters...

Mr Archibald has outlined six major concerns, including fears the jets will not start at northern Australian bases if their fuel gets too hot.

He also hit out at the fighters' logistics system, saying it required an internet connection to the United States. He said if that link was down, the aircraft could not fly, even if there was nothing wrong with it. Mr Archibald said it was "bizarre" Australia would contemplate operating an aircraft under this arrangement
.



http://adamsmithclub.org/2015/10/nov-20 ... nd-beyond/

David Archibald is a Perth-based scientist working in the fields of oil exploration, medical research, climate science and energy. After graduating from Queensland University in geology in 1979, he worked in coal and oil shale exploration in Queensland and then in oil exploration with Esso in Sydney. A long period in stockbroking as an analyst was followed by work for a private investor. He subsequently floated the oil exploration company Oilex in 2003 and then joined a Canadian-listed oil exploration company in 2006. Also at that time, he was CEO of the mineral explorer Westgold Resources. David’s last book was Twilight of Abundance (2014). He will be talking about his new book on Australia’s defence.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post16 Feb 2016, 01:10

popcorn wrote:Another "defence analyst" opines. Good grief. :doh:


http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-1 ... ng/7167216

Defence analyst warns Joint Strike Fighters may have trouble starting

A defence analyst says a "bizarre" logistics system could ground Joint Strike Fighter jets headed to the Williamtown Air Force base in New South Wales, even if the planes are fit to fly.

Analyst David Archibald has lodged a submission to a Senate inquiry into Australia's Joint Strike Fighters...

Mr Archibald has outlined six major concerns, including fears the jets will not start at northern Australian bases if their fuel gets too hot.

He also hit out at the fighters' logistics system, saying it required an internet connection to the United States. He said if that link was down, the aircraft could not fly, even if there was nothing wrong with it. Mr Archibald said it was "bizarre" Australia would contemplate operating an aircraft under this arrangement
.



http://adamsmithclub.org/2015/10/nov-20 ... nd-beyond/

David Archibald is a Perth-based scientist working in the fields of oil exploration, medical research, climate science and energy. After graduating from Queensland University in geology in 1979, he worked in coal and oil shale exploration in Queensland and then in oil exploration with Esso in Sydney. A long period in stockbroking as an analyst was followed by work for a private investor. He subsequently floated the oil exploration company Oilex in 2003 and then joined a Canadian-listed oil exploration company in 2006. Also at that time, he was CEO of the mineral explorer Westgold Resources. David’s last book was Twilight of Abundance (2014). He will be talking about his new book on Australia’s defence.



Oh for f*cks sake. So much wrong in that article. That "scientist" should know when to shut his f*cking trap on things he doesn't know about. ABC journalism is in the pits nowadays....an energy/climate change scientist doth not make him a defence "analyst". An arm chair "expert" will be more fitting.
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Unread post16 Feb 2016, 01:19

Global warming will render the F-35 fleet useless. :devil:
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post16 Feb 2016, 02:10

spazsinbad wrote:Thanks 'popcorn' - interesting last few sentences from above also: [often it is said 50/50 actual/sim flying hours per pilot]
"...The service will aim to provide its F-35 pilots with 150 hours’ flying each year, plus 100 hours in simulators.

Kitcher said the RAAF is aware that it will be impossible to generate all the potential F-35 operating scenarios in live flying training, due to the “challenging security implications.” There will be a heavy reliance on live, virtual and constructive (LVC) training to generate the necessary complexities, he added."



Here's an eye-popper:

"... The RAAF plans to spend the years 2019-20 operationally testing the F-35 in Australia. During that process, “We’ll find things that we–and the Joint Program Office–don’t understand,” Kitcher predicted. Around 2020, Australia will decide whether to increase its order for the F-35 to as many as 100, as a replacement for the Super Hornets in the late 2020s. ..."

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... 35-choices
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Unread post16 Feb 2016, 02:28

The bolded text part quote is not eye-popping at all - the speculation about finding stuff that mystifies people - IS. :devil:
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