UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

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zerion

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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 17:07

HMS Queen Elizabeth Welcomes UK And US Jets For Major Exercise

HMS Queen Elizabeth has embarked the largest number of warplanes ever onto her deck as she prepares to take her place at the heart of a UK-led NATO Carrier Strike Group...

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https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... uk-us-jets
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 17:42

Nice pics!
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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 18:16

So 14 jets on board, instead of planned 15?

All 10 US jets aboard.

https://news.usni.org/2020/09/23/video- ... ft-carrier
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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 20:51

U.S. Marine F-35Bs Embark on U.K. Carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc_QHR2fqJo



https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/-/media/ro ... zabeth.jpg
_____________________________________________

MORE EASILY accessible photos here: https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/jets-o ... ea-so-far/

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/wp-con ... 2020-4.jpg
______________________________________

US Marine Corps and UK jets operating from HMS Queen Elizabeth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM6HKXrhUdg

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Unread post23 Sep 2020, 23:55

Noting (in the videos) the casual concern of flight deck personnel for exhaust effects, I am reminded of these kinds of articles back in the day. This, but one of many...

https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/2010/0 ... -hot-noisy

:whistle:
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 01:37

:notworthy: :crazypilot: :mrgreen: :devil: :doh: Mebbe it is just the SLACK JACK TAR RNers!? :roll: :shock: :mrgreen: :devil: :whistle:
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steve2267

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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 16:15

First time I recall seeing any sort of color (e.g. red) on an F-35...
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 16:22

I am curious to hear USMC pilot comments regarding the ski jump. If they love it, if it's "meh" etc.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 18:25

It’s ‘meh’ — just like it was for Harrier.
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 19:39

steve2267 wrote:First time I recall seeing any sort of color (e.g. red) on an F-35...


The first F-35C of VFA-101 did have red color before.
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 20:38

quicksilver wrote:Noting (in the videos) the casual concern of flight deck personnel for exhaust effects, I am reminded of these kinds of articles back in the day. This, but one of many...

https://www.military.com/dodbuzz/2010/0 ... -hot-noisy

:whistle:


Reminds me of this old gem (exhaust problem at 7:10m):



:cheers:
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 20:48

quicksilver wrote:It’s ‘meh’ — just like it was for Harrier.


Not all Marine Corps pilots went “meh”:

Major Art Nells, USMC, had this to say:
“In December 1988, a detachment from the Naval Air Test Center (NATC), Patuxent River, Md., conducted a flight test program matching up a Spanish aircraft carrier, Principe de Asturias, and the U.S. Marine Corps AV-8B Harrier II vertical/short takeoff and landing attack aircraft. The flight test results were nothing short of amazing. Takeoff performance of the AV-8 was dramatically improved, as well as safety and the potential for true Harrier/helicopter interoperability.”

Major Nells was one of those test pilots according to Wikipedia.

Page 12 of https://www.history.navy.mil/content/da ... f/mj90.pdf
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 20:59

aussiebloke wrote:
quicksilver wrote:It’s ‘meh’ — just like it was for Harrier.


Not all Marine Corps pilots went “meh”:


Another effusive Marine pilot:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070815124 ... in_070805/
To a man, Marine pilots want the ramps installed on their ships to improve operational flexibility and safety.

“We’re all in love with the ski ramp because when you come off that ramp, you’re flying,” Bradicich said. “From our ships, if you’re fully loaded, you need 750 feet, and even then you’ve got some sink once you clear the deck. Here, you can do the same thing in 450 feet and you’re climbing.”

But the ramp is intimidating at first sight, pilots said.

“I expected it to be violent, but when you take off, it’s almost a non-event,” said Maj. Grant “Postal” Pennington, a pilot with VMA-513 at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Ariz. “Up you go, and you’re climbing. It’s a great experience.”
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 21:15

quicksilver wrote:...A couple things you should know —
As spaz points out above, SRVL was created for F-35B, not Harrier. RVL is a simple landing, but it is far easier and precise in F-35B due to the technology and mechanization inherent in its integrated flight/propulsion control system. Even so, Harriers have landed on roads much narrower (like, 35-40’) than the space available on the back of an LHA or LHD. So, why have they not made the attempt to do so at sea? Roads don’t move; ships do. And, comparatively speaking, the Invincibles were much more stable, particularly in roll. It doesn’t take much wind and sea swell to make an LHA/D roll enough to create problems in motion for jets recovering with rolling landings without arrestment at touchdown.

Ski-jumps require significant physical alteration of a ship; it not only takes up spots, it has a significant cost component. WRT approach time, SRVL is a faster recovery than a VL, and rollout distance (and the clearing of the entire deck that you pre-suppose) is not required — as evidenced by the apparent rollout distance achieved by F-35B in testing. So, what is the issue for LHA/D? Deck motion and lateral space available in the landing area.

Marines experience Brit style on ‘Lusty’
06 Aug 2007 Vago Muradian

"ABOARD HMS ILLUSTRIOUS...Maj. Stephan “Poppy” Bradicich, the executive officer of Marine Attack Squadron 542 who helped plan the unprecedented embarkation of 16 Harriers and 200 Marines aboard HMS Illustrious, known as “Lusty” to its crew.

...the ramp is intimidating at first sight, pilots said. “I expected it to be violent, but when you take off, it’s almost a non-event,” said Maj. Grant “Postal” Pennington, a pilot with VMA-513 at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Ariz. “Up you go, and you’re climbing. It’s a great experience.”

Equally important is the ship that’s bolted to the ramp, pilots said. “Some of our younger guys who haven’t flown from our ships yet are in for a big surprise when they do,” Bradicich said. “This is probably the best ship [INVINCIBLE CLASS] you could possibly fly a Harrier from. It’s not very big, but it’s really stable, no roll, just a little pitch, not like the flat-bottom gators [LHAs] that roll so much. You’ve got the island moving 30 feet in each direction when you’re trying to land. That tends to get your attention.”..."

Source: http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showt ... -style-on-‘Lusty’
OR
https://tinyurl.com/yymtnczv


PHOTIE: https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... __main.jpg
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Unread post24 Sep 2020, 22:32

Well, as a first-time formal test event 32 years ago, it probably was a big deal. Not so much in recent times; Marines took first-timer fleet guys to Illustrious (and later Ark Royal iirc) a decade or so back and did so for a couple weeks of ops. (I see spaz has found some references).

First time for me was ashore in an AV-8A many decades ago. Learning point was to make sure the taxi director had the nose wheel perfectly aligned with the ramp cuz when you release the brakes at throttle slam, the jet was going where that wheel was pointed (and there was about 150’ of ramp and all of about three feet of ramp on either side of the outriggers). We also had to limit/keep the T/W within certain numbers in order to avoid over-compression of the nose wheel strut at ramp entry. But that’s all ancient history.

For Harrier, all ship STOs (w or w/o a ski-jump) are actually easier than a shore-based STOs because they are what is referred to as a ‘free-air STO’ — i.e. the jet efflux— not having a surface to impinge upon and reflect back onto the aft empennage and tailplane — doesn’t make the jet squirrelly in ground effect at nozzle rotation.

F-35 even easier for same reason all the STOVL stuff is easier — the integrated flight propulsion control system.

Obtw, as a footnote to the post-test event comments from ‘Major’ Art Nalls, that is the same Art Nalls that bought his own Sea Harrier in more recent times, and flew it around for a few years on the air show circuit along with a couple other retired folks. Guts-ball stuff.
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