UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

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Unread post13 Sep 2019, 04:18

Canadian MEEDJA reporting about QE at Halifax is just hilarious but I can only show....
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Unread post13 Sep 2019, 11:22

NEWS FROM DSEI: UK Military Leaders Laud F-35 While on Journey to Learn How to Use It
11 Sep 2019 Stew Magnuson

"...The nation has 16 F-35B models in hand and expects another 17 to be delivered next year as part of a planned 138 aircraft buy. The aircraft delivery coincides with the arrival of two new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers. This fall, the U.K. armed forces will conduct operational tests of the F-35 within the HMS Queen Elizabeth’s carrier strike group alongside the United States, Connell said Sept. 10 at the Defence and Security Equipment International conference....

...This year will also mark the first capability demonstrations of the F-35 off the HMS Queen Elizabeth with an eye toward the carrier’s first operational deployment slated for 2021. That milestone will require the strike group to either deploy on its own, or with allies, namely the United States and the Netherlands, Connell said....

...The RAF will be attempting to answer several questions as it continues its tests, especially working out rules of engagement. “We are right at the beginning of a journey,” Godfrey said. He called the aircraft a “catalyst for transformation in the maritime domain.”

F-35 pilots have more information at their disposal than any previous military platform could provide in history, Godfrey asserted. The questions that need to be answered are how much decision-making authority will aviators be allowed to have at the tactical edge, how much will be left to combined air operation centers, and how much information does the F-35 need to send back to commanders?

“We do not need all of the information all of the time. We need the right information in the right time and the right place. That is definitely something we need to work out,” he said.

Godfrey advocated adapting the SPEAR-3 air-to-surface missile for the maritime domain. The MBDA-produced weapon is being assessed by the United Kingdom as a weapon for the Typhoon and the F-35. “It would be an absolute travesty if the SPEAR [capability]-3 came into service and didn’t have a naval target capability,” he said...."

Source: https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org ... -to-use-it
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Unread post13 Sep 2019, 20:19

HMS Queen Elizabeth in Halifax, Westlant19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2bml5WGSfI

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Unread post09 Oct 2019, 02:39

Photo essay: HMS Queen Elizabeth Westlant 19 deployment – Part 2 \ [no F-35Bs yet - just ships & helos]
08 Oct 2019 SaveTheRoyalNavy

"After departing Halifax on 16th September, HMS Queen Elizabeth, HMS Dragon and RFA Tideforce headed south towards the Florida coast and were joined by HMS Northumberland. They exercised off the eastern seaboard of the US before the aircraft carrier arrived at Naval Station Mayport on 4th October.

Building on daytime trials conducted last year, on 19th September an MV-22 Osprey from HX-21 Squadron, based at NAS Patuxent River, made 22 night landings. The trial evaluated lighting, deck configuration, motion, and handling qualities using landing spots 2, 3 and 4. The V-22 has now effectively been cleared to operate from the QEC carriers and the US Marine Corps aircraft can support the ship 24 hours a day. If an HRAS-equipped auxiliary (Fleet Solid Support ship) is unavailable, the US Ospreys offer another method of delivering bulky cargo such as complete F-35 engines....

…HMS Queen Elizabeth is embarking stores and specialist personnel in Mayport to support F-35 operations which will commence shortly. The 3 UK-owned jets of 17 Squadron based at Edwards Air Force Base in California have flown to US Marine Air Corps Station Beaufort, South Carolina ready to embark on the carrier for the first time. Later this week 4 jets of 617 Squadron will fly from RAF Marham, crossing the Atlantic supported by air-air refuelling to land at Beaufort. The UK aircraft will join then ship as she heads north and up to 4 more USMC jets will join the ship at some point.

Although much time will have been spent preparing in the simulator, most of these pilots have not operated from an aircraft carrier before and all will need to attain their carrier pilot qualification. The focus of F-35 flying during Westlant 18 was Development Trails (DT) but the jets will now begin the first Operational Trials phase (OT-1) learning to operate and fight the aircraft in a naval environment. In mid-November there will be a break from flying as the ship heads to Annapolis for a major diplomatic visit."

Photo: "A unique surfer’s view of HMS Queen Elizabeth entering Naval Station Mayport (Photo used with permission of Adam King)." https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/wp-con ... rrival.jpg


Source: https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/photo- ... nt-part-2/
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Unread post09 Oct 2019, 08:35

Rotary wing trials done. https://www.janes.com/article/91747/que ... nt-testing

Anybody sees what it says about the increase in helicopter spots?
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Unread post09 Oct 2019, 09:15

gabriele wrote:Rotary wing trials done. https://www.janes.com/article/91747/que ... nt-testing Anybody sees what it says about the increase in helicopter spots?

"...Prior to the start of 'WESTLANT 19', Captain James Blackmore, Carrier Air Wing and Strike Warfare Commander, told Jane's that the DT RW would explore clearance of additional rotary-wing spots on Queen Elizabeth's flight deck. "Where 6 spot is, on the starboard aft quarter, we want to be able to put two landing spots there fore and aft [designated] 'November' and 'Papa' spot, and we want to open up two ranks of five on the main flight deck for rotary for both Merlin and Chinook," he said."

I guess you mean 'does anyone have the full article? Sorry - I don't.
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Unread post09 Oct 2019, 15:19

I'm happy for the Brits and it gives them astounding new capabilities but...

Other than the Falklands, what purpose do its carriers serve? OK, maybe NATO obligations but given British pounds don't grow on trees, couldn't this money have been better spent on.... LOTS more F-35's, and developing a heavy bomber/air refueling force to be reckoned with?

The price of building 2 new aircraft carriers is astounding, not to mention outfitting them with all the bells and whistles. Rough inventory of fast jets for the UK includes 160 or so Typhoon and 138 F-35B's on order. So, about 300 high performance fighters/strike fighters.

Had they re-directed those funds, they could comfortably build/buy a force of 500 Typhoon/F-35's AND have $ left over to build a heavy bomber. Which is a big capability gap they've been living with since the Vulcan retired. I'm sure I'm missing something that explains these carriers, but the presence of even a small global bomber fleet seems much more cost/effective. If they're hell bent on adding to their sea power, I'd think submarines (although they're not cheap) would be a much better investment. And a hell of a lot more survivable..
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Unread post09 Oct 2019, 21:58

RAF F-35Bs depart for HMS Queen Elizabeth, Westlant19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPJ32Y15CXo

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Unread post09 Oct 2019, 23:01

mixelflick wrote:I'm happy for the Brits and it gives them astounding new capabilities but...

Other than the Falklands, what purpose do its carriers serve? OK, maybe NATO obligations but given British pounds don't grow on trees, couldn't this money have been better spent on.... LOTS more F-35's, and developing a heavy bomber/air refueling force to be reckoned with?

The price of building 2 new aircraft carriers is astounding, not to mention outfitting them with all the bells and whistles. Rough inventory of fast jets for the UK includes 160 or so Typhoon and 138 F-35B's on order. So, about 300 high performance fighters/strike fighters.

Had they re-directed those funds, they could comfortably build/buy a force of 500 Typhoon/F-35's AND have $ left over to build a heavy bomber. Which is a big capability gap they've been living with since the Vulcan retired. I'm sure I'm missing something that explains these carriers, but the presence of even a small global bomber fleet seems much more cost/effective. If they're hell bent on adding to their sea power, I'd think submarines (although they're not cheap) would be a much better investment. And a hell of a lot more survivable..



The Queen Elizabeth Class really need the Osprey to fully exploit the F-35B's. Honestly, that is not the biggest shortcoming with the type in Royal Navy Service.
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Unread post10 Oct 2019, 00:42

Via E-mail: "Number of F-35Bs for QE confirmed today - six UK (617 and 17 squadrons) and four USMC (including the two ITF F-35Bs at Pax). Due on deck ASAP (weather dodgy up and down US E coast at the moment). That thermal nonskid next to the ski-jump is for emergency F-3B VLs. Unmarked as yet, no date set for trials (probably not this year)."
"...[QE] seen here on 23rd September [2019]." https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/wp-con ... roup-2.jpg
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Unread post10 Oct 2019, 02:28

mixelflick wrote:I'm happy for the Brits and it gives them astounding new capabilities but...

Other than the Falklands, what purpose do its carriers serve? OK, maybe NATO obligations but given British pounds don't grow on trees, couldn't this money have been better spent on.... LOTS more F-35's, and developing a heavy bomber/air refueling force to be reckoned with?

The price of building 2 new aircraft carriers is astounding, not to mention outfitting them with all the bells and whistles. Rough inventory of fast jets for the UK includes 160 or so Typhoon and 138 F-35B's on order. So, about 300 high performance fighters/strike fighters.

Had they re-directed those funds, they could comfortably build/buy a force of 500 Typhoon/F-35's AND have $ left over to build a heavy bomber. Which is a big capability gap they've been living with since the Vulcan retired. I'm sure I'm missing something that explains these carriers, but the presence of even a small global bomber fleet seems much more cost/effective. If they're hell bent on adding to their sea power, I'd think submarines (although they're not cheap) would be a much better investment. And a hell of a lot more survivable..


The same question can be asked of the US, why does it have so many CVN ? The point about carriers is they provide constant force projection over any area of the globe, both offensive and defensive. The QE carriers are also relatively cheap, ~£3bn, and heavy bomber production cost is close to a billion these days nevermind the development cost.
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Unread post10 Oct 2019, 02:40

Royal Navy outwits US and foils submarine attack on HMS Queen Elizabeth

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/l ... ne-3408306

The Royal Navy outwitted its US allies and foiled a submarine attack on new aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth, during an ongoing exercise off the coast of America. As part of Westlant19 - a three-month exercise where aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth, the UK's new F-35 jets and supporting units will be rigorously tested under realistic warfighting scenarios - the US Navy attempted to attack the £3bn future flagship with one its submarines.

However, with Plymouth based Type-23 Frigate HMS Northumberland and a specialist Merlin Mk2 from RNAS Culdrose based 820 Naval Air Squadron in the UK Carrier Strike Group, the American's efforts were in vain - and in the real world would have resulted in the destruction of one of the US Navy's attack submarines. A Royal Navy spokesperson said: "Anti-submarine experts working with HMS Queen Elizabeth have been pitting their wits against an American submarine in the North Atlantic.

"HMS Northumberland and the specialist Merlin Mk2 of 820 Naval Air Squadron have gained invaluable information on tactics and skills required to protect an aircraft carrier from the threat beneath the waves while working with an allied US sub.

"Type 23 frigate Northumberland used her specialist sonars, including the powerful towed array sonar, to hunt the submarine at range, keeping tabs on the sub before ‘destroying’ the target in training exercises.

"Joining in the chase was the RNAS Culdrose-based Merlin Mk2, the aerial submarine hunting experts on Queen Elizabeth. The navy fliers utilised sonar buoys to cover a large area of ocean to prevent the submarine getting a clean shot at any of the UK Carrier Strike Group ships."
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Unread post10 Oct 2019, 02:47

marsavian wrote:Royal Navy outwits US and foils submarine attack on HMS Queen Elizabeth

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/l ... ne-3408306



What was the name of the USN Submarine involved in the exercise???
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Unread post10 Oct 2019, 03:00

Corsair1963 wrote:
marsavian wrote:Royal Navy outwits US and foils submarine attack on HMS Queen Elizabeth

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/l ... ne-3408306


What was the name of the USN Submarine involved in the exercise???


Not given but it was this one of the Dwight Eisenhower carrier strike group

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/u ... ps-3363889

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Unread post10 Oct 2019, 04:16

I'm guessing USS Albany.
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