UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

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marsavian

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Unread post19 Nov 2018, 05:29

Osprey in the AEW/tanker modes is still in the development phases.

In the current fiscal climate, Merlin/Cerberus was the only realistic option. Lockheed Martin had proposed a more sophisticated Merlin-based option using a podded AESA radar, derived from the F-35 but it was obviously more expensive. Many would have liked to have seen a V-22 Osprey based ASaC solution (tilt-rotor aircraft). This potentially offers better range and surveillance coverage than a helicopter. Unfortunately, this only exists on paper as a concept and would have added more time and cost to develop, as well as adding an aircraft to the inventory the UK does not (yet) possess.
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weasel1962

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Unread post19 Nov 2018, 07:26

I stopped at "in the current fiscal climate"...

For those who have not been following...
https://www.nao.org.uk/report/ministry- ... 7-to-2027/

“The Department’s Equipment Plan is not affordable. At present the affordability gap ranges from a minimum of £4.9bn to £20.8bn if financial risks materialise and ambitious savings are not achieved.”

Amyas Morse, head of the National Audit Office, 31 January 2018


2018 report fresh off the press...
https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-equip ... 8-to-2028/

5 The Plan remains unaffordable, with the Department reporting a £7.0 billion difference between expected costs and budget for 2018 to 2028, 84% of which falls in the first four years.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 02:01

Via e-mail: QE tests finished Monday 19 Nov 2018 with good results all round - all marks hit. News should be on net soon.
Another milestone landing on HMS Queen Elizabeth
19 Nov 2018 RN PR

"RAF test pilot Squadron Leader Andy Edgell flew his specially-adapted stealth fighter facing the stern, not bow, before bringing the jet to a hover, slipping it over the huge flight deck and gently setting it down. The ‘back-to-front’ manoeuvre, described as “like driving the wrong way down a one-way street” is intended to give pilots and the flight deck team more options to safely land the state-of-the-art stealth fighter in an emergency....

...The wrong-way landing was a slightly surreal experience, said Squadron Leader Edgell. “It was briefly bizarre to bear down on the ship and see the waves parting on the bow as you fly an approach aft facing. “It was also a unique opportunity fly towards the ship, stare at the bridge, and wonder what the captain is thinking.” Once alongside the landing spot however, the act of setting the F-35 down is almost identically – except for nudging the jet left, not right – and “the aircraft handled beautifully.”..."



Source: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... landing-qe

"We have just dispatched the last F-35B for 2018. 202 takeoffs - 187 vertical landings, 15 SRVL’s including the Worlds first - 75 hours in the air & 54 Training Weapons dropped" 19 Nov 2018 TWATterCrapola

Source: https://twitter.com/hashtag/F35onDeck?src=hash
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18P00221_068 (3).jpg
F-35BedgellQEfirstBackwardsVLtestNov2018pdf.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Corsair1963

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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 03:51

weasel1962 wrote:I stopped at "in the current fiscal climate"...




They may was well sell one or both of the Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers now. As they will never be able to afford them long-term.....

:?
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marsavian

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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 11:53

The defence budget has just been increased by a billion primarily for the RN on the submarine front.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... s-in-mind/

The austerity minded conservatives (Cameron/Osborne) are gone from office and Labour have no problem borrowing and spending money and Brexit is reaching a chaotic* end with no parliamentary agreement on any form of trade deal with the EU in sight. I suspect any post Brexit defence budget will be fluid but borrowing may increase temporarily to sustain all departmental budgets until the future tax receipts look clearer in the new post Brexit environment. In short both Carriers and total F-35 buys look safe for now because there are bigger problems to solve for the government and parliament in the run-up to Brexit at the end of March 2019.

* I expect a change of Prime Minister if not Government by 2019 with possibly a new referendum and/or election too, the political situation is that fluid at the moment.

p.s. if I would have to take a wild guess as to what would happen I suspect David Davis will become PM and the UK/EU will negotiate and agree a CETA style free trade arrangement that came into force in 2021 after a two year transition.
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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 16:07

F-35 test flying from HMS Queen Elizabeth completed ahead of schedule
20 Nov 2018 SaveTheRoyalNavy

"The second phase of the F-35 test flying programme (DT-2) has exceeded expectations and was completed on 18th November, well ahead of schedule.

During the two trials periods, the two test F-35s conducted 202 take-offs, 187 vertical landings and 15 SRVLs (Shipbourne [it is SHIPBORNE - NOT shitbourne: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourne_(film_series) ] Rolling Vertical Landings). The aircraft spent a total of 75 hours in the air and 54 training weapons were dropped on ranges in the US. The trials process and been very reliant on assistance from the US, which included, logistical support at Naval Station Norfolk, escort from US Navy destroyers and replenishment from USNS vessels. US Marine Corps personnel were also on board the QE to assist in aircraft handling and pass on their F-35 handling skills and experience to their RN counterparts.

The two test aircraft disembarked from the ship back to their base at Patuxent River on 19th November. The spare time left could give the ship an opportunity to visit another North American port before she returns to Portsmouth in December...."

Source: https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/f-35-t ... -schedule/

An office with a view: F-35 vertical Landing on HMS Queen Elizabeth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzkehnTazTE

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 21:35

HMS Queen Elizabeth, F-35B launch, Flyco view https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGkJAEC3y-A

HMS Queen Elizabeth, American F-35B contingent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLqpcB5Bk38



RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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steve2267

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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 23:05

spazsinbad wrote:HMS Queen Elizabeth, F-35B launch, Flyco view https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGkJAEC3y-A





By my calculation, that Bee only used about 345ft of deck for its takeoff roll.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post20 Nov 2018, 23:29

steve2267 wrote:
By my calculation, that Bee only used about 345ft of deck for its takeoff roll.

Yeah, that STO made a USS Wasp STO look like a full runway.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Nov 2018, 00:10

IIRC the minimum lightweight STO is about 300 feet (I'll have to look up the quote it is in a video here). One does not know fuel state/ internal weapon state does one. We know from the most recent SAR that the KPP for USMC flat decks has reduced the STO length from 550 to 600, now back to 471 feet (I'll have to look that up also because hey what do I care).
SAR 2019: download/file.php?id=27020 "Demonstrated Performance: Execute 471 ft. STO with 2 JDAM (internal), 2 AIM-120 (internal), fuel to fly 450nm"

CVF STO max/min weight info: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=370561&hilit=MTOW#p370561

CVF STO Ski Jump Deck F-35B Sim Details Pilot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxezKrL6apQ
at 45 seconds into video "STO at about 300 foot point lightweight"

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post21 Nov 2018, 01:57

Via E-mail SRVL finals.
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srvl_finalsPDF.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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quicksilver

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Unread post21 Nov 2018, 02:38

Looks like a wave off IC.AR (in-close to at-the-ramp). Notice the aircraft attitude (SRVL is normally relatively flat in order to preserve visibility over the nose at higher glide slope angles), and the low rear nozzle angle.
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popcorn

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Unread post21 Nov 2018, 04:03

QE2 meets up with DDG-1001 Michael Monsoor...the future is electric.

https://mobile.navaltoday.com/2018/11/1 ... -atlantic/
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royal-navy-carrier-meets-zumwalt-destroyer-in-the-atlantic.jpg
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Nov 2018, 04:52

quicksilver wrote:Looks like a wave off IC.AR (in-close to at-the-ramp). Notice the aircraft attitude (SRVL is normally relatively flat in order to preserve visibility over the nose at higher glide slope angles), and the low rear nozzle angle.

And moved to the left? Note the shadow(s) of the deck personnel is more or less straight up the deck so Bee is left of C/L?
Attachments
srvl_finalsPDFzoomSHADOWS.jpg
srvl_finalsPDFzoomSHADOWbeeLeft.jpg
srvl_finalsPDFzoomSHADOWSpersonnel.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post21 Nov 2018, 05:20

Currently I'm baffled why this video cannot be seen on my YouTube display page with the title shown below - MTOW STO.

IMAGE: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ywu_cAO8lZ0/maxresdefault.jpg

VIDEO DELETED - no sound because of a small song soundtrack from the early 1970s was 'copyrighted' thus ruining it. :-(
Attachments
CVFmaxWeightSTOdetails.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 21 Nov 2018, 09:26, edited 1 time in total.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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