UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

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spazsinbad

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Unread post09 Dec 2017, 20:50

Interestingly titled website with good info re CVFs: http://www.queenelizabethcruises.net/hm ... t-carrier/
&
http://www.queenelizabethcruises.net/wp ... arison.jpg
&
http://www.seaforces.org/marint/Royal-N ... us-053.jpg

Look what designing a STOVL Ski Jump Carrier brings to the 'thru deck cruiser' original Invincible Class concept for helos.
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QE&CVScomparo.gif
INVINCIBLEclassSideTOPviews.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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white_lightning35

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Unread post10 Dec 2017, 00:45

Can someone explain the three and a half times the size, with only twice the number of aircraft thing to my ignorant self? I understand that the QEC can carry more if needed, but it seems like most of the time they won't be carrying many aircraft.
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Unread post10 Dec 2017, 01:03

What's to explain? You said it yourself "...the QEC can carry more if needed...". Without you stating the number of aircraft then one needs to assume. This thread says over and over how many F-35Bs expect to embark usually. Does that number include helos? You do the math. Do the current CVNs carry extra aircraft? Carrying fewer aircraft means there is more room on deck for quick turn arounds for sortie rate but it also depends on number of serviceable aircraft carried. Numbers numbers numbers eh. They can make your head spin. How many would you prefer. We'll see what we can do. :mrgreen:

Do you understand the vaudeville joke: "Never mind the quality - feel the width"? Look at the size of that CVF Deck. WOW - she can carry out SRVLs probably with the F-35B. The Harrier could never do that aboard Invincible Class. Only one SRVL during wartime emergency ops & it was dicey (for many reasons - being a Harrier was the main problem - not built for it).

Probably aboard CVFs STOs & VLs (aft last third of deck perhaps) will be carried out simultaneously but it all depends....

We will know more about CVF F-35B ops once testing finished or ConOps released. They might use SPOT 6 for VLs whilst carrying out simulateous staggered SRVLs - but we don't know until testing - whether SRVLs will be in their bag o'tricks.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post10 Dec 2017, 06:58

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WASPozLHDinvincibleClassDeckComparo.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post11 Dec 2017, 09:52

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WASPclass3view+DeckLayoutTIFtext.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post11 Dec 2017, 11:40

white_lightning35 wrote:Can someone explain the three and a half times the size, with only twice the number of aircraft thing to my ignorant self? I understand that the QEC can carry more if needed, but it seems like most of the time they won't be carrying many aircraft.


There are many explanations on the web. I think this article answers the questions in relatively simple to understand terms.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/why-are ... rs-so-big/
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mas

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Unread post12 Dec 2017, 14:28

sunstersun wrote:this split buy nonsense idea is really going to be a reality isn't it?

what's the point of a joint force if they operate different aircraft and in reality none of them get sufficient resources to operate or share.


The RAF/RN are being made to share the same aircraft and so each will lobby for a variant that suits them best, like they both did with Harrier. If the RN had their way no As would be purchased and if the RAF had theirs a hundred would. The reality will be decided upon by whichever govt is in power and which service does the best lobbying on them. I think the RAF will be able to wrangle out at least two squadrons of F-35A (about 40) if 138 are bought in total but it could be more or less than that. The ultimate point is it really does not matter as any procurement mistakes can be rectified later as the F-35 will be produced and available for purchase for many decades to come.
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Unread post15 Dec 2017, 16:42

Invention, bravery and dedication by sailors and marines rewarded at 2017 Millies
14 Dec 2017 Royal Navy PR

"...ensuring safety on the new carrier earned WO1 Paul Moonan an 'innovation award', presented by Olympic swimmers Rebecca Adlington and Mark Foster. He realised a fire engine was needed given the size of the flight deck rather than relying on existing hoses. The result is NMATT which will not only save lives, but also several million pounds...."

Source: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... 17-millies
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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optimist

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Unread post15 Dec 2017, 20:49

It's a good idea, but there isn't much redundancy in a fire engine. Our bushfire ones have their own sprinkler system, so it can help survive being within a fire. Given a fuel fire, it could have a system that will spray foam under and ahead of itself. Do I at least get a lolly for that suggestion?
sensible would be to also spend the millions on pipework and hoses. It's all about fire on a ship.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post15 Dec 2017, 21:42

That lolly may have been claimed already by the inventor. Sadly no details given but I'll look. Years back there was FAREfan about a mini powered trolley that with one person at controls could maneuver an F-35B around - nothing since.

On a big flight deck getting firefighters to the crash site quickly is essential - probably protection provided by vehicle. ???

Years ago one poor MELBOURNE flight deck fire crewman was seeking compensation for his asbestosis disease - probably garnered from the asbestos cloth FEARNAUGHT fire suit he had to wear. Gladly we are not going back to those times.

Recent USN flight deck fire truck info: http://www.dcfpnavymil.org/Equipment%20 ... t/p-25.htm
&
MORE USN INFO: https://arffports.wordpress.com/2013/01 ... ftcarrier/

First screenshot shows this fireman (adjusting helmet visor standing aft of THE BEAST - the crash crane on right of photo - parked aft alongside the island [flyco up top] with an A4G rolling landing on left). I'll find another screenshot from:

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FireSuitMELBOURNEbeastA4G.jpg
AsbestosFearNaughtFireSuitMELBOURNE.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post18 Dec 2017, 20:41

UK Takes Delivery Of Final F-35B Lightning This Year
18 Dec 2017 GOV.UK

"The UK has taken delivery of its 14th F-35B Lightning II which flew into Beaufort, South Carolina last week...

...There are currently some 200 British personnel based at Beaufort testing the aircraft and getting them ready to arrive in the UK next summer as 617 Squadron. Preparations are also being made for First of Class Flight Trials, due to take place on HMS Queen Elizabeth later next year. The programme is on schedule to achieve Initial Operating Capability from land next year with Initial Operating Capability Carrier Strike in 2020...."



Source: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/uk-take ... -this-year
&
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-t ... -this-year
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14thF-35BukBeaufortDec2017zoom.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post19 Dec 2017, 10:46

QE has a small leak which will be fixed alongside - this will not affect the testing schedule - meanwhile back at the ranch.

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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neptune

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Unread post19 Dec 2017, 18:47

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2017/ ... ds-repair/

UK’s newest, most expensive aircraft carrier needs repair

By: The Associated Press
19Dec17

LONDON —
... aircraft carrier needs repairs after a faulty (propulsion) shaft seal was identified during sea trials.
... will be “scheduled for repair” at Portsmouth.
... the repairs wouldn’t be paid for by taxpayers because contractors who built the ship would be responsible.
...the problem won’t prevent the ship from sailing or interfere with the extensive sea trials program underway...
:)
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Unread post19 Dec 2017, 20:05

Do tell - why respond to fwit media - it just goes on & on - UK newspapers are mostly crap of the Murdoch variety is why.
Transparency Lacking In UK F-35 Procurement, MPs Say [then there is AvWeak of course, without Sweetman?]
18 Dec 2017 Tony Osborne

"LONDON—British parliamentarians say a lack of transparency over costs and a poor response to media reports could undermine public confidence in the UK’s purchase of the F-35 Joint Strike..."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/awindefense/tra ... nt-mps-say

PHOTO: Last UK F-35B this year arrives BEAUFORT: https://navaltoday.com/wp-content/uploa ... 24x723.jpg
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Last2017ukF-35BarrivesBEAUFORTdec.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post19 Dec 2017, 20:30

The general public in the UK don't even know the F-35 exists and the few that do are impressed we now have a supersonic stealthy harrier jump jet replacement. The carriers on the other hand are well known about and most like them especially the size. Those MPs are talking rubbish and advancing their own narrow interests, these supposed F-35 excess cost features are not even mid page or any sort of public news here. Generally the carriers and harriers have been missed especially after what they done in the Falklands. Basically the biggest controversy over these carriers was that there wouldn't be any aircraft ready for them for years when they were finished. Going back to the original F-35B solved that problem which was what this thread was initially about although I do love your daily/weekly updates on it :).
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