UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

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steve2267

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Unread post04 Sep 2017, 03:34

Wouldn't one require three ships for continuous availability rather than just two as stated in the above video?

One for deployment.
A second for training workups.
A third for maintenance cycles.

Am I missing something? (Other than perhaps Great Britain cannot afford three ships of the line?)
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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sunstersun

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Unread post04 Sep 2017, 03:44

steve2267 wrote:Wouldn't one require three ships for continuous availability rather than just two as stated in the above video?

One for deployment.
A second for training workups.
A third for maintenance cycles.

Am I missing something? (Other than perhaps Great Britain cannot afford three ships of the line?)


You are correct it takes 3 ships to have a continuous deployment, they'll probably just have at least one ship with the ability to deploy rapidly and interchange with the french carrier so europe has 1 carrier all the time.
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steve2267

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Unread post04 Sep 2017, 04:35

sunstersun wrote:
You are correct it takes 3 ships to have a continuous deployment, they'll probably just have at least one ship with the ability to deploy rapidly and interchange with the french carrier so europe has 1 carrier all the time.


If you are throwing the French carrier into the "European" mix, then once the F-35B is fully on-line, the Italian, Spanish, and Turkish (if they are still playing nicely with Europe) amphibious carriers (light? carriers) should be included as well.

Back to the video... perhaps the Royal Navy is carefully coaching all its officers to use the phrase "continuous availability" so that later they can argue a 3rd carrier is truly needed to offer "true" continuous availability.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, add dollop of F-117 & gob of F-22, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well, then bake. Whaddya get? An F-35.
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ricnunes

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Unread post04 Sep 2017, 15:37

steve2267 wrote:Wouldn't one require three ships for continuous availability rather than just two as stated in the above video?

One for deployment.
A second for training workups.
A third for maintenance cycles.

Am I missing something? (Other than perhaps Great Britain cannot afford three ships of the line?)


Couldn't the "second" (training task) be somehow replaced by in/over-land training such as resorting to mockup carrier decks and ski jump ramp (again, built over land) while the HMS Ocean (Amphibious assault ship) could be used to complement the over-water training (such as landing on a ship's deck)?
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Unread post04 Sep 2017, 15:48

The UK F-35B base is RAF Marham - there is info about this base and modifications required for F-35B use/training which include VL pads & a STOVL runway along with other conventional runways, I do not think a ski jump is being constructed.

Recent post on this thread has a map of changes: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=375073&hilit=Marham#p375073

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y15hcv20DY8/ ... titled.JPG

Then there is the 'navy' based training for deck crews: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=285344&hilit=Marham#p285344

HMS Ocean will be mothballed/sold off soon and in any event it is not built for F-35B VLs & subsequent STOs.

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RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post09 Sep 2017, 14:52

HMS Prince of Wales formally named – another step towards renewing aircraft carrier capability
08 Sep 2017 SaveTheRoyalNavy

"...Continous carrier capability
It is now clear the RN is aiming to maintain continuous carrier capability. Initially, manpower concerns had made this seem unlikely but manning the carriers has been prioritised, even at the expense of the rest of the fleet. The intention is that one aircraft carrier will be at 5 days notice to deploy (Very High Readiness). When configured for the LPH role they will be expected to be at 30 days notice to deploy (High Readiness). Theoretically, it may be possible for both carriers to be deployed together, with one in strike role and one in LPH role. Maintenance periods and refits will obviously mean that for long periods only one carrier will be available.

The future for HMS Queen Elizabeth
HMS Queen Elizabeth should sail for the second phase of her sea trials in October and will formally commission in December. She will sail for heavy weather trials in the North Atlantic in the first quarter of 2018. During this time she will also focus on rotary-wing certification and trials with embarked Wildcats, Merlin Mk2s, Merlin HC4s, Army Air Corps Apache and RAF Chinooks. HMS QE will not be fully capable in the LPH role for several years but she will routinely embark Royal Marines of the Special Purpose Task Group. The SPTG was established in December 2015, its prime role is to rescue downed aircrew and destroy or recover sensitive equipment such as F-35 parts. However, the SPTG is a multi-purpose formation that can be used to support other special forces operations or conduct raids ashore.

HMS QE will be back alongside for a further planned “defect rectification and capability insertion” period in mid-2018. The main work will be adding equipment to support F-35 operations such as the Instrument Carrier Landing System (ICLS) and set up ALIS – the F-35 aircraft maintenance system. In the later part of 2018 HMS QE will sail with HMS Montrose as her escort to the East Coast of the US. She will embark Royal Marines who will be flown ashore to exercise with the US Marine Corps. Off the Eastern Seaboard of the US, the first F-35Bs will land on HMS QE to begin flying trials. Two specially instrumented “orange-wired” F-35B test aircraft and four pilots will be aboard for 8 weeks of trials and evaluation. Short Rolling Vertical Landing (SRVL) will be practiced for the first time outside a simulator. This complex manoeuvre will allow the aircraft to return safely to the ship with a weight of unused weapons or fuel. The technique is controversial, many F-35 naysayers expect it to prove unworkable.

As something we can all look forward to, respected film-maker Chris Terrill has been embarked aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth during her sea trials and his 3-part documentary Royal Navy: Carrier Strike will be shown on BBC 2 in January 2018."

Source: http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/hms-pri ... apability/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post12 Sep 2017, 01:29

UK armed forces commentary blog is exceptional for anyone interested.

Seriously some of the best defence analysis out there
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Unread post12 Sep 2017, 01:37

'Gabriele' pops in - usually on this thread - from time to time.
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Unread post12 Sep 2017, 15:06

Some might recall a piece from the London Times in the summer on F-35B costs to the MOD?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brit ... -qrtj95kvh

Well, the journos involved were invited to attend a Parliamentary committee hearing to impart their knowledge to some MPs

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Inde ... a22bbc262f

70mins long
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sunstersun

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Unread post13 Sep 2017, 06:45

spazsinbad wrote:'Gabriele' pops in - usually on this thread - from time to time.



he mainly posts on ukdefenceforum
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Unread post13 Sep 2017, 08:43

Am I dimwitted? That is a rhetorical question. 'Gabriele' sometimes posts here - so what? Search the F-35 forum on name:

Here is a 'funny' one: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52450&p=356492&hilit=guitar#p356492
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post13 Sep 2017, 11:20

I'm here. I don't post most of the time, but i read. This place is perfect for picking up any news or report i might have missed, so i visit daily.

Thanks for the good words about my blog. Always appreciate them.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post13 Sep 2017, 11:57

:doh: Allo Allo Allo - yeah you have some great NavAv stuff for the Brits - keep up the good work - much appreciated. :mrgreen:
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post19 Sep 2017, 16:41

UK outlines IOC target for F-35s [LOTS more INFO at source where best read]
19 Sep 2017 Craig Hoyle

"The UK remains on target to achieve initial operational capability (IOC) with the Lockheed Martin F-35B in late 2018, with its personnel training and testing activities gathering pace.

Eight of the 11 short take-off and vertical landing aircraft so far accepted by the UK are now supporting training at the US Marine Corps' MCAS Beaufort facility in South Carolina, with the activity involving 140 of its personnel. "By the end of this year it is planned that the UK will have 14 of these jets," the Ministry of Defence says.

The Royal Air Force's 617 Sqn will be reformed in the USA early next year, before bringing nine jets back to the service's RAF Marham base in Norfolk by mid-year, says Air Cdre David Bradshaw, the UK Lightning force commander. The unit should secure IOC for deployable land-based duties by the end of 2018, he confirmed during the DSEI exhibition in London earlier this month....

...Meanwhile, initial aircraft carrier flight trials are scheduled to take place off the US East Coast involving the Royal Navy's HMS Queen Elizabeth "in the autumn of next year", Bradshaw says. Maritime IOC is expected for the F-35B by the end of 2020, coinciding with the vessel's entry into service...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 5s-441280/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post26 Sep 2017, 04:17

sunstersun wrote:
It’s time for an honest conversation about the future of the Royal Navy
25 Sep 2017 
On 24th September The Mail on Sunday reported ocean survey vessel HMS Scott is to be sold or scrapped. She is the probably first victim of the low profile ‘mini defence review’ now being conducted to in the face of catastrophic MoD financial problems. HMS Portland is also in Devonport without a crew and awaiting refit at some point in future. HMS Daring and HMS Dauntless are inactive Portsmouth, although Dauntless is due to start a major refit soon. Other cuts on the menu include losing 1,000 Royal Marines and reducing the F-35 purchase. (The purchase of 138 F-35s over the next 20 years promised in 2015 is now seen as completely unrealistic, most analysts expect the UK to buy less than half that number). The exact details of what will be axed are still subject to speculation and internal horse-trading, but cuts are coming.


Source: http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/its-tim ... oyal-navy/



Lots of concern UK won't finish their purchase of 138 F-35's. Seems like it with their relatively low goal of 48 f-35's by 2024.
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