UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

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talkitron

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Unread post10 Aug 2017, 02:05

Thanks for the roster of personnel. When the ship deploys in some years, there would also be an embarked carrier air wing of variable composition (trading off fixed wing vs helicopters) and likely some embarked military personnel (like Royal Marines). Finally, there is Commodore Andrew Betton of the UK Carrier Strike Group. The article below states that the CSG is a " deployable 1* battle staff", meaning that Betton and his staff will be on the carrier rather than commanding it from land.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... rike-group

However, the previous COMUKCSG is now the captain of the HMS Queen Elizabeth, despite ranking as a commodore. So maybe Betton will indeed remain on shore if his predecessor is commanding the ship. All rather odd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Kyd
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spazsinbad

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Unread post10 Aug 2017, 21:43

Factoid USN 22 JPALS here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14115&p=373437&hilit=factoid#p373437
'No decision' on Raytheon GPS landing system aboard Brit aircraft carriers
22 Jun 2017 Gareth Corfield [See also: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/1 ... _of_wales/ ]

"We've already got one tried and tested system, huffs MoD

The Ministry of Defence has insisted it has made “no decision” to install the US Navy’s JPALS aircraft carrier landing system aboard HMS Prince of Wales, the second of the Royal Navy’s two new 65,000-tonne aircraft carriers.

US defence contractor Raytheon this week said it was in talks with the MoD over fitting its JPALS product, the US Navy’s future carrier landing system of choice, to PoW. The MoD, however, is – publicly, at least – not keen to be seen as picking a supplier just yet.

“No decision has been taken as to whether HMS Prince of Wales will be equipped with the Joint Precision Landing and Approach System (JPALS), or whether the system will be retro-fitted to HMS Queen Elizabeth,” a spokesman for the ministry told The Register. “Nor has any decision been taken as to whether JPALS will be installed at shore establishments.”...

...Hands to flying stations
“HMS Queen Elizabeth is fitted with an SPN-41 Instrument Landing System and this, together with the ship’s radar systems, provides a robust precision landing capability,” added the MoD’s spokesman in response to our questions.

The AN/SPN-41 system is noted by the USN to be beyond the end of its “original expected service life”, though the USN Air Systems Command page about the system does refer to American ships that have had it in use for several years. While one hopes that the RN hasn’t installed equipment that needs the removal of “obsolete components” aboard a brand new warship, it makes good sense to use a tried-and-tested system for landing brand new aircraft aboard a brand new ship.

The same landing system is also installed aboard the Italian Navy’s flagship, the aircraft carrier Cavour. Italy is the only other country apart from the UK and US to buy the F-35B...." [However CAVOUR is being UPDATED you MORONS!]

Source: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/2 ... 2386485241
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post10 Aug 2017, 23:01

Another post about same topic as above with a curious addition that some USN JPALS installations will be shore based to be used for training? I would have thought '22' would be for the combined total of '22' CVNs & LHAs but just my WAG OK.
Fancy buying our aircraft carrier satnav, Raytheon asks UK
19 Jun 2017 Gareth Corfield

"System might only be fitted to HMS Prince of Wales – reports
American defence firm Raytheon has said it is in talks with the Ministry of Defence to put the US Navy’s “satnav for F-35s” system onto new British carrier HMS Prince of Wales....

...JPALS is currently under development, with initial operating capability (meaning “we can use this in anger if needed”) scheduled to be reached between 2019 and 2020....

...The GPS-based JPALS is accurate to within “10 – 20 cm relative to a moving point (or set of points) aboard a ship,” according to Stanford University. The idea of the system is that aircraft fitted with it can be steered safely home without the ship (or land operating base) having to broadcast its precise location to anyone listening out for it, as happens currently with tactical air navigation (TACAN) type systems. In essence the main difference is that the JPALS signal is encrypted, unlike TACAN.

As the JPALS aircraft module can reportedly be fitted to helicopters as well as fast jets, it may interest the RN – particularly with the potential to allow easier cross-deck operations with American and potentially Italian aircraft; the EU nation is another F-35B customer. The USN is buying 22 sets of JPALS to install in both carriers and land bases for training purposes.

HMS Prince of Wales is the second of the UK’s two new 65,000 tonne aircraft carriers. While PoW’s sister ship, HMS Queen Elizabeth, is currently scheduled to deploy with a joint RAF/RN/USMC air wing of F-35s, PoW will enter service filling the Landing Platform Helicopter (LPH) role currently being performed by HMS Ocean, due to be sold off next year. In the strike role both QE-class carriers are intended to be capable of launching up to 108 F-35B sorties per day, a rate that compares reasonably well to the Americans’ newest carrier USS Gerald R. Ford. Some 40 per cent larger by displacement than QE, the Ford is designed to support around 160 launches and recoveries per day...."

Source: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/1 ... _of_wales/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post11 Aug 2017, 19:16

CVF QE Drone overflight apparently (no landing).

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CVFsternApproachView.jpg
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Unread post11 Aug 2017, 23:51

At least two UK newspapers claim the drone landed to take the pic attached
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CVFjuly21_ivergordon_drone.jpg
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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 00:28

From my outsider's perspective, security seems ineffective. The drunk driver who drove onto a base and damaged a Super Hornet is one example of a lack of security. Flying a drone unchallenged onto a ship at sea is another. I do wonder whether a Chinese or Russian war would be started by saboteurs sneaking onto bases (on land or with drones) to damage aircraft, ships, radar and other expensive equipment. One advantage of Turkey is that its military has many conscripts (presumably) standing guard duty seemingly everywhere.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html
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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 01:20

Good to have the facts, for example the CVF QE was not at sea where I imagine it would be very difficult to 'land a drone' onboard but perhaps you are referring to an Iranian [much bigger] drone interfering with a Super Hornet with the carrier at sea conducting flight ops. Anyhoo the other day the USAF issued classified guidance for drone overflight issues:

http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... hreat.aspx

I'll imagine there will be similar laws in UK & elsewhere because this 'civilian drone' issue is not going away. In Oz we had a big problem of laser pointers dazzling pilots approaching to land at major airports. Prosecution with severe penalties seems to have put an end to it (plus a public education campaign about 'blinding pilots' I guess).

AND... just to DRONE ON....
Commercial drone lands on HMS Queen Elizabeth unchallenged
11 Aug 2017 George Allison

"...HMS Queen Elizabeth is to arrive in Portsmouth on the 18th of this month and we’ve been invited to attend. Ironically, the invitation reads:

PLEASE NOTE THAT DRONES WILL NOT BE PERMITTED AT THIS EVENT. Measures will be in place to counter drones other than one being flown by the Royal Navy.”

We have reached out to the Aircraft Carrier Alliance for comment. An MoD spokesperson said: “We take the security of HMS Queen Elizabeth very seriously. This incident has been reported to Police Scotland, an investigation is underway and we stepped up our security measures in light of it.”

Source: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/commerc ... hallenged/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 09:24

A few days ago an Iranian drone got into the landing pattern over an American Carrier in the Gulf. Why it wasn't shot down I just don't know.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 1u57QRxgkQ
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talkitron

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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 15:36

spazsinbad wrote:Good to have the facts, for example the CVF QE was not at sea where I imagine it would be very difficult to 'land a drone' onboard but perhaps you are referring to an Iranian [much bigger] drone interfering with a Super Hornet with the carrier at sea conducting flight ops.


My mistake.
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neptune

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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 16:23

spazsinbad wrote:At least two UK newspapers claim the drone landed to take the pic attached


...a good candidate for a anti-drone laser test!!
:wink:
Last edited by neptune on 12 Aug 2017, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post12 Aug 2017, 16:26

spazsinbad wrote:... Prosecution with severe penalties seems to have put an end to it (plus a public education campaign ...)...



"Prosecution with severe penalties"...financial$$ or publicly picking up trash in a clown costume??
:)
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Unread post13 Aug 2017, 15:27

At last a proper SCALE comparison graphic of CVF/Nimitz/Kuznetsov Aircraft carriers from RIAT 2016 PDF: (attached)

https://www.scribd.com/document/3233374 ... -RIAT-2016

I think this document has been cited before? I'll check: Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers Air Maritime Integration 2016
http://www.williamsfoundation.org.au/re ... Walker.pdf (1.9Mb) Sort of mentioned here earlier but this example cited above is much better quality I think: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15969&p=352203&hilit=Walker#p352203
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323337418-F-35B-UK-Plans-briefing-from-RIAT-2016.pdf
(4.97 MiB) Downloaded 59 times
AircraftCarrierComparoRNscaleCVFnimitz.gif
UK F-35B Programme Chart.gif
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Unread post14 Aug 2017, 16:17

Ski ramp testing phase 2 video
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Unread post16 Aug 2017, 00:22



RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post16 Aug 2017, 11:04

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