UK MOD in a muddle over F-35C

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Unread post17 Jul 2015, 00:54

Britain’s Top Admiral: U.S., U.K Planning For ‘Closer and Stronger’ Naval Alliance
16 Jul 2015 Jon Rosamond

"LONDON — Five years ago the Royal Navy was reeling from the impact of the British government’s 2010 Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR), a financially-driven undertaking that resulted in the scrapping of the last two Invincible-class light aircraft carriers, the withdrawal from service of their Harrier jets, the sale of one amphibious-dock ship and the mothballing of another and severe cuts to the destroyer and frigate force.

Now the senior service is embarking on a fresh maritime renaissance that will see it deliver enhanced capabilities in partnership with its most enduring ally. That, at least, was the message delivered by the Royal Navy’s First Sea Lord Adm. George Zambellas and his American counterpart at a joint seminar in London on Wednesday.

“There are few areas where our strategic interests are more natural, or our global interests are more aligned, than at sea,” Zambellas told an audience at the Royal Institute of International Affairs — also known as Chatham House.

Zambellas said the 75-year-old partnership, which dates to the Battle of the Atlantic in World War II, is about to become “even closer and stronger” thanks to a combination of sustained investment in ships and equipment and on the “direct practical [and] spiritual support we’ve had from the US Navy.”

The introduction of a wealth of new assets—including aircraft carriers, attack and ballistic-missile submarines, destroyers, frigates and offshore patrol vessel—would ensure the Royal Navy is “more credible in the eyes of our most important partner than ever before,” he said.

In December 2014, Zambellas and the U.S. Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jonathan Greenert signed a Combined Sea Power agreement—a shared vision for naval cooperation for the coming 15 years.

The accord addresses five key areas:
The close co-ordination of carrier strike operations, with the new Queen Elizabeth-class carriers (including F-35B strike fighters, helicopters and unmanned air systems) reinforcing the capability provided by the U.S. Navy.

• The integration of U.K. and U.S. ships in one another’s maritime task groups, a process that should become “intuitive.”

• Additional personnel exchanges, particularly in headquarters and niche roles where it is important to preserve perishable skills.

• Mutual investment in technologies that permit interoperability, including weapons, sensor systems, data processing and protocols, and autonomous vehicles.

• Force and capability planning “to ensure that together we maintain a balanced mix of capabilities and that our activities complement our mutual priorities.”

Zambellas said: “Together or individually we must be ready to project power and respond to crises around the world quickly, flexibly and credibly. For the next 15 years and more, we are designing and deploying naval forces to be more than interoperable. From the outset we aim to be integrated, working in unison, not in tandem.”

Greenert told the seminar: “We depend on the Royal Navy, very much so, from tactics, to operations to strategy. From world wars, through the Cold War to today, we have always been stalwart allies. Today we enjoy a closeness and an unconditional trust that is really unequalled anywhere around the world. From a schoolhouse, to an exercise, to a deployment, to a real world combat operation, Royal Navy members are embedded throughout our ranks.”

The CNO pointed out that already British pilots were the only foreigners permitted to fly Super Hornets on strike missions. “No other pilot can even sit in a Hornet, because they can’t get the clearance....”

...Greenert said the future belonged to “collaborative operations, integration, truly global force management and force development” and highlighted continuing cooperative technological work in mine warfare (particularly unmanned underwater systems), antisubmarine warfare (advanced sonar arrays) and in “unique high-tech asymmetric capabilities” such as the F-35, carriers and submarines...."

Source: http://news.usni.org/2015/07/16/britain ... l-alliance
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post21 Jul 2015, 18:22

'Probe & Drogue' is all over the forum so this spot is appropriate for the UK F-35B portion.
RIAT: AirTanker offers surge-fleet Voyager to military users
21 Jul 2015 Craig Hoyle

"AirTanker is offering its latest Airbus A330 Voyager, acquired as part of the UK’s Future Strategic Tanker Aircraft programme...

...Meanwhile, the Voyager has recently received final operational clearance to provide in-flight refuelling to the RAF’s Boeing E-3D Sentry airborne warning and control system aircraft. The type is also due to conduct its first trials from around February next year, with a Lockheed Martin F-35B operating from NAS Patuxent River in Maryland."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ry-414852/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post21 Jul 2015, 19:17

I wonder if this thread should be put to rest? The MOD muddled thru the issue years back. :D
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post21 Jul 2015, 19:25

:mrgreen: Itsa 'ragbag' thread now of all the UcK bits 'n pieces. :doh:
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Unread post31 Aug 2015, 00:05

Don't worry if ya canna understand some of the thick Scottish brogue [a way of speaking English, especially that of Irish or Scottish speakers]....
Queen Elizabeth Class - Our greatest challenges
Published on Aug 14, 2015 BAE Systems

"We’re approaching the completion of the block build stage for the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers as the largest HMS Prince of Wales section is delivered from Glasgow. Take a look back at some of our greatest challenges as told by the men and women across the UK who made this possible.

Lower Block 04 is the largest hull section of HMS PRINCE OF WALES and contains the hangar, machinery space, mission systems compartments and accommodation. Its 20 metres high, 80 metres long, comprises a fifth of the overall aircraft carrier and is already significantly larger than the Type 45 destroyers, which were the last vessels to be delivered to the Royal Navy from Glasgow. The block is being delivered ahead of schedule and with a more advanced level of outfitting due to the incorporation of lessons learnt during the construction of the first vessel."

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post05 Sep 2015, 00:00

Common sense prevails. Thanks Vlad.

http://breakingdefense.com/2015/09/uk-c ... Defense%29

WASHINGTON: The United Kingdom is committed to a high-end battle fleet centered on two aircraft carriers, a senior Ministry of Defense official made clear yesterday. Just as important, the UK is committed to funding adequate crews to sail them — something that had been in doubt after much discussion about cutting costs by effectively mothballing the second carrier, HMS Prince of Wales, once it was built.

And Britain will not change its mind again. These are non-negotiable commitments not subject to revision by the ongoing Strategic Defense & Security Review (SDSR), Minister of State for Armed Forces, Penny Mordaunt, told reporters late yesterday. What’s still up in the air in the review, however, is how many F-35B Joint Strike Fighters the Royal Navy will buy for the two carriers, Prince of Wales and Queen Elizabeth...
Will each carrier eventually get a full complement of F-35s? “Any sort of further commitments on details… whether it’s numbers of aircraft or numbers of frigates or what have you, that will be coming out of the SDSR process,” Mordaunt said. “But what I would say [is that in the SDSR] there will also be a lot of radical thinking about the kinds of things we will be operating… .from the carriers,” not just F-35s but “other air assets, whether they’re manned or unmanned..”
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post17 Sep 2015, 23:36

For about a fortnight I have been unable to access USNInews website. Would someone please mind posting the good bits here from this link - TIA: :mrgreen:

http://news.usni.org/2015/09/17/dsei-u- ... more-14780
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post18 Sep 2015, 00:15

DSEI: U.S. Marine F-35Bs Will Operate From British Queen Elizabeth Carriers
By: Jon Rosamond
September 17, 2015 8:35 AM

LONDON — The U.S. Marine Corps will deploy its Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II strike fighters on combat sorties from Britain’s new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers, a senior U.K. Royal Navy officer has confirmed.

Rear Adm. Keith Blount, who is responsible for delivering the two 65,000 ton ships, said that using Marine aircraft and pilots to bolster the U.K.’s nascent carrier strike capability would be a natural extension of coalition doctrine.

“We are forever operating with allies and within coalitions. It’s the way wars are fought”, the Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Aviation, Amphibious Capability and Carriers) and Rear Adm. Fleet Air Arm told an audience at the DSEI defence exhibition in London on Wednesday.

“In order to get the best out of [the U.K. carrier program] we have to be able to situate it in a coalition context. That could mean that we operate with an American ship as one of the protecting escorts”, Blount said.

“But … given the fact that the U.S. Marine Corps are buying and will operate the same type of aircraft as we are buying and operating, it would make no sense whatsoever if we were to close down the opportunity and potential of the U.S. Marine Corps working from this flight deck.
“So yes, I expect the U.S. Marine Corps to operate and work from the deck of the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier. We are going to get the most bang for the buck we can for the U.K. taxpayer, and that’s one of the ways in which we’ll achieve it.”

While Blount painted the co-operative arrangement in positive terms, it will disappoint critics who believe the U.K. government should provide the R.N. and Royal Air Force (RAF) with sufficient resources, in both aircraft and manpower, to regenerate the country’s carrier air wings independently.

Each of the 284 m-long carriers, fitted with a ‘ski jump’ bow ramp instead of the catapults and arrester wires once planned, will accommodate up to 40 aircraft: short takeoff/vertical landing F-35B strike fighters, helicopters, or a blend of fixed-wing and rotary tailored to the mission in hand.

Britain took delivery of its first Lightning II aircraft in 2012 and currently has three; the fourth is due to roll off Lockheed Martin’s Fort Worth production line in January 2016.

“We have people in America now flying these jets”, said Blount, who disclosed that the RN had recently recruited its first ab initio F-35B pilots.
“The first frontline jet they will ever fly in will be the F-35 … that’s how close we are getting to this.
“When I was at Edwards Air Force Base quite recently I met 140 sailors and an equal number of RAF personnel that are in the testing and evaluation squadron to bring this aircraft online. This is genuinely exciting stuff, and this aircraft is a world beater for what it is designed to do – an exceptional platform.”

Britain’s F-35Bs are scheduled to arrive at Marham Air Base in eastern England in mid-2018, achieving initial operating capability by the end of that year. A deployable U.K. carrier strike capability should be ready by late 2020.

Blount said he was also “very excited” about the opportunities presented through Joint Helicopter Command to operate Apache, Chinook, Merlin and other helicopters from the Queen Elizabeth class.
“Getting rid of the cats and traps actually makes this a far simpler proposition, and one of the reasons why this capability is so versatile and useful to us,” he added.
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Unread post18 Sep 2015, 00:19

Thanks for this article 'Dragon029' - much appreciated. Exercising the USMC F-35Bs from CVF early on will help RN CVF crews adjust to the real F-35Bs before they have their own onboard some time later. Win/WIN but the whining Brit minority will complain loudly no doubt.
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Unread post20 Sep 2015, 06:44

Best read this article from original source rather from long SLDinfo where the moving text will make youse seesik(sic). :mrgreen:
Working with the USN-USMC Team to Redefine the Air-Enabled Insertion Force
2015 FrontLine Defence (Vol 12, No 4) ROBBIN LAIRD SLDinfo

"...With the F-35B, the strike concept will be different from that of the U.S. Navy and its large deck carriers. As an RAF officer put it: “The plane is so easy to fly, we will focus on getting the maximum effects from the strike force, and not have to focus as much attention to flight choreography as one has to do with legacy aircraft.” The focus is clearly on effects generated from an aircraft carried designed for 24/7 operation.

The F-35B launched from the carriers are part of the picture; the very significant Command and Control capabilities aboard the ship are another. With the carrier afloat, the RAF is looking to build synergy among the various land based and carrier based aircraft to generate combat effects. As one Royal Navy officer put it: “The strike force could be commanded from the ship, from the ground or from the air. We are building flexible C2 to get maximum combat value from aircraft launched from the carrier.”

Several innovations one sees aboard the Gerald Ford can be found aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth: significant power generation, efficient C2 capabilities, very large rooms for reconfigurable C2 suites for operations across the Range of Military Operations (ROMO), and well designed work areas for the F-35B crews which will handle the operations and data generated by the fighter platform to the fleet.

Significant power generation means that future developments can be accommodated, including the probability of the coming of directed energy weapons. The ability to drive the computer power necessary for evolving C2 is significant as well.

Walking through the ship, one sees miles of cable run to support operations, and notably to provide for robust and redundant C2. In fact, both the Ford and QE have prioritized C2 in way that will allow these ships to play key roles in supporting not only a task force at sea but an overall joint or coalition insertion force.

The ship infrastructure is supported by an integrated platform management control system. The IPMS provides integrated management to support operations and combat management. This “brain” of the ship is designed to manage the work flow and provide dynamic information to enable the infrastructure aboard the ship to support sortie generation rates for the mix and match strike force....

...“People say it’s not all about the carrier, but it is all about the carrier, because that will be the center of gravity around which we will provide all the other enablers for the other elements of the task group. The constitution of the task group is critical too, depending on what we do with the carrier, but the carrier and its air wing are the centerpiece enabling the entire task force.

“We have worked closely with the USN and the USMC in the regeneration of Carrier Strike, and that working relationship has been hugely appreciated – and also the work they have done for us and with us in support of this aim,” said Capt Alcock....

...It is important to fully understand what insertion forces can do for a nation when a mission can be effectively correlated with objectives set by political decision makers. When publics and governments are looking for alternatives to parking land forces in areas for long periods of time, and achieving mixed, negative or uncertain results, the carrier is emerging as a viable option.

Put bluntly, publics are tired of long ground campaigns but like to see national interests being projected and protected. Insertion forces built around integrated air, ground and sea power is a core enabler of being able to act rapidly to influence events – and not simply occupy terrain until war weariness crushes strategic objectives.

Both the UK public and decision makers will soon have a much wider range of options without having to deploy forces ashore for long periods of time, unless the interest, the need and the support is available to do so...."

SLDinfo with even more text - beware - it moves...: http://www.sldinfo.com/new-british-carr ... ion-force/

Source: http://frontline-defence.online/article/2015/4/2149
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post01 Nov 2015, 01:52

Well this long running entertaining thread (to me) just got even more so - with a twist - unbelievable - but 'wot do I know'. Shades of MOD IN A MUDDLE indeedy - mebbe theys'll do an about face as we saw with the Bs to Cs and back again.

I do not know who made this appointment and what it really means however it is worrying in a broad sense - why no RN?
Officer put in charge of Royal Navy's new £6.2bn aircraft carriers is a top RAF man who has never served at sea
25 Oct 2015 Jenny Stanton For Mailonline

"The decision to put an RAF officer who has never served at sea in charge of the Royal Navy's £6.2billion aircraft carrier project has been described as 'barking mad'.

Former Navy chief Lord West of Spithead claims the appointment of Air Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier will 'make Britain and international laughing stock'.

Sir Hillier will be responsible for the two new Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers...

...'The decision to appoint an RAF officer with no experience of naval warfare is entirely barking mad,' Lord West said last night, as reported by the Daily Star Sunday.

'I'm sure the air marshal is a very good bloke but he has never served at sea, has no experience of naval operations or maritime warfare and that beggars belief.'

Air Marshal Hillier was picked for his skills in 'leadership and experience in delivering complex programmes across defence', according to the Ministry of Defence."

& "...Air Marshal Hillier was a Tornado pilot in the first Gulf War in 1991. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross in 1999 while patrolling the Iraq no-fly zone."

Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/re ... ns-6703123


Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/re ... ns-6703123
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post22 Nov 2015, 11:51

The UK will speed up acquisition of F-35Bs, enough to outfit if's first CVF with a full complement of the jets at any time come 2023. In the meantime, the Marines are happy to fill in.
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/george- ... 4018661315

The purchase of new fighter jets is to be speeded up, Chancellor George Osborne said, as he promised funding to ensure the Royal Navy can deploy one if its new aircraft carriers at all times by 2023.

Details of the upgrade will be at the centre of the Government's Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR), due to be set out to the Commons by Prime Minister David Cameron tomorrow.

Mr Osborne said the move would put the UK second only to the US in carrier capability and mean it could respond to threats "wherever and whenever necessary".

The Government had proposed to have only eight of the US-built F35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft available for deployment to the new carriers HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales by 2023That has now been trebled to 24 - all in strike roles if required - with the 18 others on order being used in the training fleet or in maintenance, the Chancellor told the Sunday Times.

Capability could be temporarily "surged" to 39 jets to respond to specific threats.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post22 Nov 2015, 13:01

Plus last paragraphs:
"..."By bringing forward the purchase of the world's most advance stealth fighter jets, we will enhance our ability to respond to threats wherever and whenever necessary.

"With more jets on board, our independent aircraft carrier capability will be second only to our closest allies, the Americans.

"These are versatile multi-role fighter jets, able to engaging in air-to-air and air-to-ground combat, giving us the ability to deal with evolving threats. ['e's been reading ELP "evolving threats" - now off the grid]

"And of course, British businesses and workers will benefit from this decision too, which is worth £29 billion to the UK supply chain.""
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post22 Nov 2015, 13:58

This is why the 'MoD is in a MUDDLE' or the MoD Leakers anyways....
Defence review: Cameron to announce new UK reconnaissance planes
21 Nov 2015 Ewen MacAskill and Richard Norton-Taylor

"...The MoD has a ring-fenced budget of 2 % of GDP – £38bn. About £170bn has been earmarked for equipment over the next 10 years....

...Other big budget items are the two new aircraft carriers, HMS Elizabeth, due to come into service in 2020, and, afterwards, HMS Prince of Wales.

The MoD has been struggling to find the money for planes for the two aircraft carriers. Anything less than at least 20 planes for each carrier would be viewed at Westminster as a political embarrassment.

The way around this for the MoD is to stress that only one carrier is likely to be operational at any time, with the other being used for training or being refitted, so planes would only be needed for one.

The MoD originally wanted 138, then slashed it to 48. The plan is to buy an initial 16 F-35s and reassess the position when the carriers are in service...."

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -sdsr-2015
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post23 Nov 2015, 02:29

Just the F-35B Bits and NOTHING BUT those bits so go there or....?
"...The government will announce plans to invest more than £178billion in military equipment over the next decade, including two new squadrons of Typhoon combat jets, 39 stealth fighters, nine "submarine hunting" planes and a new generation of drones...." [and a partridge in a pear tree?] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rists.html

"...We will establish two additional Typhoon squadrons and an additional squadron of F35 Lightning combat aircraft to operate from our new aircraft carriers. And we will invest in nine maritime patrol aircraft to protect our nuclear deterrent, hunt down hostile submarines and enhance our maritime search and rescue. Not one of these capabilities is an optional extra or an act of vanity. These investments are an act of clear-eyed self-interest to ensure our prosperity and security...." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ls-it.html
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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