F-35 program updates

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2163
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post19 Jun 2017, 08:47

More than 150 F-35s per year is just insane. That's getting near F-16 production numbers during 1980s. I don't think this kind of mass production has happened since. My head sure is spinning in this death spiral... :wink:
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19400
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post19 Jun 2017, 08:56

Somebody oughtta tell 'dethspiralsolomon'.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

popcorn

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 6940
  • Joined: 24 Sep 2008, 08:55

Unread post19 Jun 2017, 12:42

geforcerfx wrote:440 aircraft sold at once, that's just insane. I thought the US couldn't join the block buy until OT&E was done? At any rate that will prob make some peoples heads exploded, just imagine if Canada joins as well, the tears will flow.

AFAIK completing OT&E is a requirement for a MYP but a Block Buy bypasses that step.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19400
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post20 Jun 2017, 06:21

I would have thought the ' potential block buy' soon would have gone elsewhere but anyway here it is now....
Lockheed grows closer to F-35 block buy deal with US, international customers
19 Jun 2017 Valerie Insinna

"LE BOURGET, France — Lockheed Martin is hammering out the details on a F-35 block buy proposal that could shave $2 billion off the total cost of the purchase, the company’s F-35 program manager said.

The deal, which could be worth anywhere from $35 billion to $40 billion, would include about 440 aircraft for procured in low-rate production lots 12, 13 and 14, Jeff Babione, executive vice president and general manager, said Monday at the Paris Air Show. The F-35 joint program office has said the United States would pursue an economic order quantity, or EOQ, agreement — which would allow the U.S. military to buy spare parts over multiple years, but not entire aircraft — instead of a block buy.

Eleven countries, including the United States, are interested in participating and are nearing a decision, Reuters reported Monday morning. The average price of an A-model would drop to an estimated $85 million as a result....

...“It’s more than just airplanes. You get the spares; you get training. There will be a lot of things that go with that contract, but it will be in that scale,” he said. “This supports the ramp of staff that we have been talking about for some time, growing from about 150,000 worldwide to closer to 200,000.”...

...[Babione] “Again, if you’re going to buy the airplanes, why wouldn’t you put in a construct or an angle to produce and offer those airplanes at the lowest possible price? So we’re encouraged by the support, and I think it’s something that will go forward.”"

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/loc ... -customers
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline

USMilFan

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 92
  • Joined: 17 Oct 2006, 23:21

Unread post21 Jun 2017, 21:51

If this deal materializes, it could be the best news the F-35 program has seen in a long time, could it not? A block buy of this magnitude validates assertions made by many here on f-16.net that if a block buy is arranged, unit prices will fall significantly.

For many years Lockheed-Martin has been claiming that F-35 prices will fall significantly if only the various government buyers would commit to larger-scale lot buys. It certainly is great news to see partner governments finally agreeing to buy in greater quantities. Kudos to the many here at f-16.net who have long advocated for raising purchase quantities as the best means for saving program dollars.

If my count is correct, it seems that the only partner country or foreign customer not participating is Canada. Regret, it seems, is only for Canadians. :)
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19400
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post22 Jun 2017, 18:31

Marine Aviation Says He'd Like Want 13 More F-35Bs; Lockheed PM Speaks On Timing, Block Buy
22 Jul 2017 COLIN CLARK

"[Jeff Babione in VIDEO]...lays out what’s needed and details just how much money may be needed to add to the budget to make the big 450-plane Block Buy for Low Rate of Initial Production lots 12-14 a reality. The block buy, of course, is designed to provide economies of scale for the U.S., F-35 partner nations and friends and allies like Japan and Israel. For perspective, the first 11 LRIP lots put together account for 448 planes. This should help bring down the unit cost — always a politically sensitive issue, especially for partner countries — close to $80 million a plane.

To make the Block Buy a reality and smooth out production as much as possible, the Joint Program Office estimates how much it thinks is needed for advanced procurement of parts and tooling. Babione says the estimate is about $660 million should be inserted into the fiscal 2018 budget.

My prediction: Rep. Kay Granger, chair of the House Appropriations defense subcommittee and lawmaker from Fort Worth, Texas (home of Lockheed’s F-35 plant), will find a way to add that money to the budget. It’s good for her constituents, the F-35 partners are likely to support it and the longer-term goal of substantially reducing the unit cost is in just about everyone’s interest."



Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2017/06/mari ... block-buy/

Attachments
F-35lmBlockBuyParis2017.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline

citanon

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 189
  • Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 21:42

Unread post26 Jun 2017, 11:01

Reuters us reporting that F35A prices are actually set to drop BELOW $80 million in 2020.

The multiyear block buy has an average price of $85 but starts out more expensive ~$90 and ends up cheaper.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1990S8

:shock:
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19400
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post26 Jun 2017, 11:54

The article 'citanon' cites is dated 19 Jun 2017 & it was cited by the 'Dragon029' on that day on previous page this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=13143&p=369803&hilit=negotiating#p369803
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline

quicksilver

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1929
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 01:30

Unread post08 Jul 2017, 14:51

Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19400
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post08 Jul 2017, 18:48

Lockheed gets $5.6B for work on next batch of F-35s
08 Jul 2017 Valerie Insinna

"WASHINGTON — The Defense Department has awarded Lockheed Martin a $5.6 billion undefinitized contract that will allow the company to continue work on the eleventh lot of F-35s. The F-35 joint program office still intends wrap up negotiations on a final contract by the end of the year, but making an interim award was necessary because of “complex production lines and supply chain dynamics,” JPO spokesman Joe DellaVedova said in an emailed statement to reporters.
The award immediately obligates a combined $4.49 billion from the U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps for work on 91 aircraft. A $2.28 billion payment to Lockheed from international customers is expected later this month for an additional 50 aircraft.

The JPO is also engaged in ongoing negotiations with Pratt & Whitney, which supplies the joint strike fighter’s F135 engine, and plans to finalize a deal by the end of the year. The program office regularly issues separate contracts for the F-35 airframes and engines.

“Final aircraft prices for each customer's variant will be determined upon final negotiations targeted for the end of this year. We are confident that the final negotiated Lot 11 aircraft unit prices will be less than Lot 10,” DellaVedova stated.

Lot 11 deliveries are anticipated to run from 2019 to 2020."

Text from 'QS' post above: "...For the U.S., the funding would provide 48 F-35A aircraft for the Air Force, 18 F-35B aircraft for the Marine Corps, and eight F-35C aircraft for the Navy and Marine Corps. DellaVedova said the remaining 17 U.S. aircraft come from previously awarded fiscal 2015 and 2016 aircraft contracts...."


Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/loc ... h-of-f-35s
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19400
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Jul 2017, 17:37

Lockheed Martin F-35s Surpass 100,000 Flight Hours, SDD Completion on Track
24 Jul 2017 LM PR

"The Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) F-35 Lightning II fighter aircraft fleet recently exceeded 100,000 flight hours while the F-35 Integrated Test Force teams are completing the remaining requirements in the program’s System Development and Demonstration (SDD) phase.

“This 100K milestone marks a significant level of maturity for the program and the F-35 weapons system,” said Lockheed Martin Executive Vice President and F-35 Program General Manager Jeff Babione. “We are well positioned to complete air vehicle full 3F and mission systems software development by the end of 2017.”

The remaining development flight testing includes validating the final release of 3F software, F-35B ski jump testing, F-35B austere site operations, high-Mach Loads testing for both the F-35B and F-35C and completion of the remaining weapons delivery accuracy tests.

Major SDD fleet test milestones in recent months include:
------ Completed testing for the F-35A’s final envelope involving high risk ‘edge of the envelope’ maneuvers,
--------- stressing the aircraft to its limits in structural strength, vehicle systems performance, and aerodynamics while
--------- proving excellent handling qualities.

------ Completed all U.K. Weapon Delivery Accuracy tests for the AIM-132 ASRAAM and Paveway IV weapons, and
--------- completed 45 of 50 SDD Weapon Delivery Accuracy tests including multiple tar get [this site makes an URL from this word (& others that have to
------------------- be misspelt)
& multiple shot engagements as well as internal gun & centerline external pod 25mm gun accuracy tests.

------ Performed multi-ship mission effectiveness tests, such as Offensive Counter-Air and Maritime Interdiction,
--------- demonstrating the performance of the F-35 System."

Graphic: https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa819a6 ... __main.png

Source: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/lockhee ... ent-and-de
Attachments
F-35s110Khours.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19400
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post27 Jul 2017, 04:26

Rather than in the weapon thread this 'program update' goes here & is really a rebadged LM PR release above - as always.
F-35 tracking to SDD flight trials completion by end of year
25 Jul 2017 Gareth Jennings

"Lockheed Martin and the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) are on track to compete System Design and Development (SDD) flight testing of the Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme before the end of the year, it was announced on 25 July.

The remaining development flight testing includes validating the final release of Block 3F software, F-35B ‘ski jump’ testing, F-35B austere site operations, high-Mach loads testing for both the F-35B and F-35C, and completion of the remaining weapons delivery accuracy tests.

“We are well positioned to complete air vehicle full [Block] 3F and mission systems software development by the end of 2017,” Jeff Babione, Lockheed Martin's executive vice-president and general manager for the F-35, said. SDD has been running since 2001, and with flight trials expected to be completed by the end of the year the final certifications and sign-offs should take place in early 2018.

The affirmation that SDD is on track was part of a wider announcement by Lockheed Martin and the JPO that the F-35 programme had hit its 100,000 flight hours milestone. As noted in the announcement, major SDD fleet test milestones conducted in recent months have included the completion of testing for the F-35A’s final envelope involving ‘high-risk edge-of-the-envelope’ manoeuvres, stressing the aircraft to its limits in structural strength, vehicle systems performance, and aerodynamics while proving excellent handling qualities; completing all UK Weapon Delivery Accuracy tests for the AIM-132 Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM) and Paveway IV weapons, and completing 45 of 50 SDD Weapon Delivery Accuracy tests, including multiple target and multiple shot engagements as well as internal gun and centerline external pod 25 mm gun accuracy tests; as well as performing multiship mission effectiveness tests, such as offensive counter-air and maritime interdiction...."

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/72582/f-35 ... nd-of-year
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline

nathan77

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 41
  • Joined: 26 Mar 2015, 07:21

Unread post07 Aug 2017, 10:26

Hey all, I'm trying to respond to some basement dwellers, but there's one part of the program I don't know enough to give an adequate response on. And that is, who undertakes Testing for the JSF? The criticism given by the basement dweller is that it's Lockheed Martin who tests the F-35, but that doesn't seem accurate to me. Is it ultimately the DoD? I know that the pilots / maintainers from the various services undertake the testing. And do the services themselves have their own milestones, or is it just part of SDD?
Offline
User avatar

krorvik

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 524
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 15:26

Unread post07 Aug 2017, 15:20

I can't answer for the US entities here.

However, a more generic answer is - the F-35 is tested by LM - as well as the air forces. And this is not a task that "finishes" in delivery. It keeps going until the airframes are taken out of service. This goes for software as well as hardware.

This, btw, has also been true for the previous generation of fighters - the F-16s have been continuously upgraded and testet, although on a smaller scale. The F-35 is very much software-defined, and as such more testing will happen during the lifecycle.

So, in effect, "who tests the F-35" has multiple answers, depending on what component is in question. From small components (unit tests, often from manfacturer) to integration within the airframe (integration tests (LM, but also others)) to larger integrations and acceptance or weapons testing (Air forces).
Online

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 6975
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post07 Aug 2017, 16:02

That depends on "what" you're testing.

If you are developing new software then it's a combination of LM and JPO (Multi-service and Multi-national) pilots.

If it's OT&E testing then there are no LM pilots involved, only service members.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests