Singapore F-35 selection

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spazsinbad

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Unread post12 Jan 2020, 18:36

The INTENSELY HEATED B/S DETECTOR STINKS IF OVERHEATED needing SPESHUL (as in any concrete is tailored for purpose).
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Corsair1963

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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 03:53

Clearly, these 12 F-35B's are just the first batch of Lightning II's for the SAF. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if additional orders aren't placed for at least some F-35A's.
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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 04:16

Text sent via e-mail from STRAITS TIMES recently - no other info except JMMS will be larger than first mooted years ago.
“...As Lockheed looks for signs of follow-on orders from Singapore, one leading indicator will be the status of the joint multi-mission ship (JMMS) that Singapore announced several years ago as a replacement for the 141m long Endurance-class landing ship tanks.

News on this project has since fizzled out, possibly because of the F-35 evaluation. The F-35B's ability to take off from and land on ships offers many possibilities for the JMMS, especially if the flight deck can be extended from bow to stern to offer an enlarged platform for STOVL-capable planes.

Choosing the B-variant from among three types in the F-35 family indicates that the JMMS design may well incorporate features that allow helicopters and the F-35B to fly from its deck, making this class of ship akin to a small aircraft carrier. So one can see how one defence procurement (F-35B) has a knock-on effect on the decision for another SAF platform (the JMMS). Singapore looks at defence acquisitions holistically, with this example underlining why Singapore has earned its stripes as a reference customer.”
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weasel1962

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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 07:48

As a file note, the 6 A-330 MRTTs that the RSAF ordered (or which at least 4 had been delivered by Aug 2019), each included 2 wing refuel probe in addition to the boom...the RSAF had already phased out all fighters equipped with a refuel probe earlier. Presumably with the FRU, the MRTT can refuel up to 3 F-35Bs at a time. A single MRTT carries enough fuel to fuel a dozen F-35Bs.

There would also be some non-US integration network requirements e.g. to Israeli G550s, Aster-30, Spyder SAM systems. The missiles fired from the Spyder SAM can be interchanged for use on board fighters. The F-16s are assumed to have integrated Derby, Python firing capability. It would be interesting to see if the F-35Bs would also be similarly integrated. There is also the option of the meteor which the British are integrating into their F-35Bs.
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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 14:53

weasel1962 wrote:https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/singapore-f-35-fighter-jet-air-force-base-stovl-training-pilots-12250968

This quoted is from the article not Weasel1962:

The F-35B variant, which Singapore has requested to purchase, has also a lift fan, essentially a second engine that directs additional thrust downwards, that allows the fighter jet to take off and land vertically, without the need for a long runway.



No it is essentially a lift fan that is powered off the single engine in the F-35B.

The sensor and networking capability alone makes the F-35 worth it.
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weasel1962

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Unread post13 Jan 2020, 20:01

Yet in addition, Singapore received an industry offset when rolls Royce invested in a Trent engine manufacturing facility at seletar back in 2012.
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weasel1962

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Unread post14 Jan 2020, 10:42

F-35 unit costs.png
Noted a lot of articles citing US$115m as the unit cost of the F-35B. They need to look at f-16.net before writing these stuff.

Per latest fast facts, lot 12-14 unit prices will be US$108m (12), US$104.8m (13), US$101.3m (14). At $100m a pop, that could be cheaper than the F-15SGs (I noted US$3.2b for 24). Not the most expensive fighter plane buy in Singapore's history.
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Unread post14 Jan 2020, 11:09

It's also worth noting the F-35B and F-15SG carry about the same amount of internal fuel. (13,326 lbs vs 13,550 lbs) :wink:


Just one more thing often overlooked by the critics..... :?
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marsavian

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Unread post14 Jan 2020, 15:04

Corsair1963 wrote:It's also worth noting the F-35B and F-15SG carry about the same amount of internal fuel. (13,326 lbs vs 13,550 lbs) :wink:

Just one more thing often overlooked by the critics..... :?


F-15SG like all F-15E come with CFT as standard/fitted meaning a default fuel capacity of around 23,000 lbs in practice before any optional EFT are added so your observation while technically correct does not have much real world relevance unless CFT are purposely stripped in usage to unlock the Mach 2.3-2.5 performance which no F-15E user has purposely done yet.

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mixelflick

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Unread post15 Jan 2020, 16:27

marsavian wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:It's also worth noting the F-35B and F-15SG carry about the same amount of internal fuel. (13,326 lbs vs 13,550 lbs) :wink:

Just one more thing often overlooked by the critics..... :?


F-15SG like all F-15E come with CFT as standard/fitted meaning a default fuel capacity of around 23,000 lbs in practice before any optional EFT are added so your observation while technically correct does not have much real world relevance unless CFT are purposely stripped in usage to unlock the Mach 2.3-2.5 performance which no F-15E user has purposely done yet.

https://www.airforce-technology.com/pro ... -aircraft/

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That's true... but practically speaking, doesn't the drag associated with CFT's/the Eagle's external stores bring its overall range down to the F-35B level? Actually, I take that back about the CFT's. Recall reading somewhere where the CFT's subsonic drag index is very low. It's only when the Eagle is supersonic where the drag of such is really noticed. Of course, once you start hanging bombs/sensor pods off of them...
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Unread post15 Jan 2020, 17:56

What ends up eating the Mudhens range is weight. I wouldn't say it drops to F-35B ranges, but in spite of all the fuel it does not have a significant range advantage over an F-35A.
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marauder2048

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Unread post15 Jan 2020, 22:33

weasel1962 wrote:
F-35 unit costs.png
Noted a lot of articles citing US$115m as the unit cost of the F-35B. They need to look at f-16.net before writing these stuff.

Per latest fast facts, lot 12-14 unit prices will be US$108m (12), US$104.8m (13), US$101.3m (14). At $100m a pop, that could be cheaper than the F-15SGs (I noted US$3.2b for 24). Not the most expensive fighter plane buy in Singapore's history.


There's the FMS surcharge and Singapore may not be eligible for the non-recurring cost waiver.
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Unread post16 Jan 2020, 01:19

Agreed on surcharges. Yet back in 2005 when the SG won the fighter comp, the Ks and Es were still priced at the premium $100m before the recent price drops. I doubt the Bs, including surcharges cost more than the F-15SGs, which also face surcharges. As important is that the F-15SG included significant weapons packages that the B doesn't need because all munitions acquired for the 15SG can be used by the B.

The B's EW supports mudhen's survivability and frees up the mudhen to do what it does best i.e. bombtruck.

Range circles showing the combat radius coverage
F-35B range.JPG

Operationally, the 15SG-35B range difference is not significant in Singapore's context. The operational battlefield, Singapore to the Kra peninsular is ~400nm i.e. preventing the same invasion route the Japanese took in ww2. Anything more, can be serviced by tankers. The B's range is also sufficient to cover the entire Malaccan straits and the relevant region of the South china sea up to the gulf of Thailand and down to the Sunda Straits.

I note that the standard USMC F-35 aviator training would normally result in carrier qualification. I presume it would be the same for international aviators going thru B training :)
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