Finnish DefMin Interest in F-35s NOT Gripens

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spazsinbad

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Unread post15 May 2019, 13:06

'lowkey' referred to this possibility above: Swedish Gripen C/Ds Could Serve Until Late 2030s 14 May 2019 Tony Osborne
https://aviationweek.com/defense/swedis ... late-2030s
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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magitsu

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Unread post15 May 2019, 15:15

If there's a need for 5th gen fighter, why not go for it now instead of waiting for vaporware Euro 5th? 2035 is only 5 years after the deliveries within this procurement should be done (and current Hornet C/D's retired). It would be rather braindead to go for Gripen E in the meanwhile. Instead should just add 5 years to the C/Ds if postponing 5th gen would become necessary. Training everyone and building schemes for five to ten years of "Gripening" would be terribly expensive.

This kind of idea just underlines the futility of Gripen pick.

No-one that can really afford fighters is looking for a fighter lease.
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magitsu

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Unread post15 May 2019, 20:50

US Joint Staff led Bold Quest 19 is currently ongoing in Finland.

Main participants: USA, Finland, France, Germany. Other participants: Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, the UK, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Norway and Sweden.

Mostly C2 interconnectivity tests. A 5 million dollar fibre network (35km) was built by Finns for this series of tests. It will remain largely in use after the event.

Few Rafales, USAF tankers, Finnish Hornet will drop a JDAM, JTAC stuff... 1500 foreign participants.

Finland will host in spring 2019 a two-month-long international military exercise on information and guidance technologies, local media reported on Tuesday.

Sami Nurmi, chief spokesman for the defense forces told a Finnish language newspaper Helsingin Sanomat on Tuesday that the "Bold Quest" exercise will be unusually expensive in Finnish conditions.

Nurmi elaborated that the maneuver will require over two million euros worth investments that will then remain at the disposal of Finland, for use by the Finnish military after the exercise. The cost of Bold Quest will take 40 percent of the budget for participation in international exercises in 2019.

"Bold Quest" will be hardly visible to the public as its 2,000 participants "will sit in underground facilities". "This will be a unique and very technically oriented maneuver", he said.

Even though hosted by Finland, the exercise will be led by the United States. "This is only the third time Bold Quest will be arranged outside the U.S.", Nurmi said. The exercise in Finland will gather military from 19 countries, and 700 servicepersons will be from Finland.

http://www.dailyfinland.fi/national/769 ... er-in-2019

Here's what it includes, from a former Bold Quest (17.2) report:
From its Combat Identification origins, Bold Quest has expanded to include capability development in other mission areas associated with fires interoperability:

Friendly Force Tracking
Coalition Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance
Shared Situational Awareness
Digitally Aided Close Air Support
Cyber (Effects, Tactical Level and Network Defense)
Other trends in the evolution of the Bold Quest series include: increasing leadership roles and responsibilities of partners; integrating interoperability objectives and unit training opportunities; strengthening ties with U.S.-based hosting installations and aligning with major exercises in the U.S. and overseas.

https://www.jcs.mil/Media/News/News-Dis ... ith-16-pa/
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loke

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Unread post16 May 2019, 07:56

magitsu wrote:If there's a need for 5th gen fighter, why not go for it now instead of waiting for vaporware Euro 5th?
To support Finnish and European aerospace industry; and to have a future Western alternative to F-35. Currently F-35 is all there is. In the past we had F-16, the Hornet, Mirage, Gripen, etc. etc. Soon there will be only the F-35. It may seem like a good idea at the moment but I am hesitant to put all the Western eggs in one basket. There is also the European dimension.

Not that it is going to happen -- Finland realize that for all the noises coming from some people in Brussels, only the US can guarantee Finnish safety, at least for as long as they find it worthwhile (Trump is not the disease but the symptom..).

Thus F-35 it will be. No doubt a good choice for Finland -- whether it is a good one for EU, only time will tell.
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magitsu

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Unread post16 May 2019, 09:44

loke wrote:
magitsu wrote:If there's a need for 5th gen fighter, why not go for it now instead of waiting for vaporware Euro 5th?
To support Finnish and European aerospace industry; and to have a future Western alternative to F-35. Currently F-35 is all there is.

Finland doesn't have the luxury of going first with industrial interests. Security of supply is the more meaningful consideration. Anyway, there isn't a viable alternative if 5 gen capabilities are needed. They are still in a very early planning phase where things can change drastically.

Germany's choice is more meaningful because they have the capability to fund things that seem counterproductive in the short term. Unfortunately their stubbornness hasn't led to all that great results before, at least looking at their defense's current state. Germany-France "axis" is probably even more meaningful. Most agree that there shouldn't have been both EF and Rafale. But does it still end up in a similar split? If it does, it could happen that neither will see the day of light. Low amount of orders is the predictable bane of any initially hopeful program.
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