Number of F-35s Built for USAF Eclipses Number of F-22s

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 25 May 2019, 16:05

Number of F-35s Built for USAF Eclipses Number of F-22s
24 May 2019 John A. Tirpak

"Lockheed Martin delivered its 196th F-35A Joint Strike Fighter to the Air Force this week, surpassing the total of 195 F-22s—test and production—that it delivered to the service between 1996 and 2011.

The 196th F-35 will be based at Hill AFB, Utah, home of the first operational USAF F-35 squadrons. The first F-35A was delivered to the Air Force in 2006...."

Source: http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pag ... F-22s.aspx

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 29 May 2019, 14:17

I suppose this is a good thing, although it's sad too.

The additional F-35's are a welcome boost to America's air dominance, and long over-due. But the F-22 was and still is the single most effective, high end air superiority platform in existence. And we blew it when Sec. Gates decided we didn't need anymore than a thimble full of them.

Hopefully the nation has learned this lesson once and for all: You have a chance to leapfrog the entire world? You do so. As it stands, the repercussions of his bad decision are being felt to this day - not the least by operational F-22 units stretched too thin. They are wanted everywhere, but can't be everywhere due to the small production run.

Gates should have his pension revoked. He got paid the big $ to make the right decisions, and he failed.

Miserably.

quicksilver · by **quicksilver** » 29 May 2019, 15:02

Ancient history. Move on.

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 29 May 2019, 20:17

As I recall... the economy was under a HUGE amount of stress back then... Gates had less than a stellar leader residing on Pennsylvania Ave. He coulda probably wacked the F-35 and gotten a few more F-22s, but I think the writing was on the wall the Air Force wasn't going to get anywhere near the 760 F-22's it originally envisioned. If cutting the F-22 preserved the F-35 program, and truly saved the numbers of F-35's "promised" (yet to be seen, but...), AND enabled the B-21 Raider program... then history might remember Gates as having made a tough, yet correct decision.

Time to stop crying over spilt milk and catch up with everyone else...

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 30 May 2019, 14:36

steve2267 wrote:As I recall... the economy was under a HUGE amount of stress back then... Gates had less than a stellar leader residing on Pennsylvania Ave. He coulda probably wacked the F-35 and gotten a few more F-22s, but I think the writing was on the wall the Air Force wasn't going to get anywhere near the 760 F-22's it originally envisioned. If cutting the F-22 preserved the F-35 program, and truly saved the numbers of F-35's "promised" (yet to be seen, but...), AND enabled the B-21 Raider program... then history might remember Gates as having made a tough, yet correct decision.

Time to stop crying over spilt milk and catch up with everyone else...

I have, but it's important to understand history in order not to repeat the same mistake(s).

Cancelling a program (allegedly) to get more B-21's, F-35's, XYZ's is ludicrous. Witness the F-15X already competing for F-35 funding. And how many B-2's were we originally going to procure? I'd agree Obama was no help, but the buck has to stop somewhere, and that's with Gates. Quite simply we had the wrong man in charge who made a colossal mistake.

Let's hope there isn't another Gates (like uh, Shanahan?) lurking in the F-35 future...

quicksilver · by **quicksilver** » 30 May 2019, 15:02

“Cancelling a program (allegedly) to get more B-21's, F-35's, XYZ's is ludicrous.”

Actually, it had more to do w the war that was going on at the time.

Leadership decisions like this are not simple multiple choice exams where the right/best answer in easily discerned or deduced. The options are all too frequently a study in ‘the least-worst’ alternatives, and in this day and age people are going to moan about it for decades (witness YF-23 also).

To this point, in spite of all the weeping and gnashing of teeth, the fact that we only have the F-22s we have hasn’t been a catastrophic circumstance. History still being written on it...

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 30 May 2019, 16:08

Maybe it's a good thing we didn't spend a small additional fortune on the F-22. Doesn't look to have the range needed in today's western Pacific battlespace.

Say... maybe Boing could make a stelphy F-15XT tanker model. Slather on some more RAM, cant the tails a bit... add Super Duper radar blockers in those massive inlets... Make it a UAV... so if it does get shot down on a mission giving gas to a Raptor... Boing can make morr.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 30 May 2019, 16:21

Or, just make the MQ-25 :mrgreen:

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 31 May 2019, 06:17

steve2267 wrote:As I recall... the economy was under a HUGE amount of stress back then... Gates had less than a stellar leader residing on Pennsylvania Ave. He coulda probably wacked the F-35 and gotten a few more F-22s, but I think the writing was on the wall the Air Force wasn't going to get anywhere near the 760 F-22's it originally envisioned. If cutting the F-22 preserved the F-35 program, and truly saved the numbers of F-35's "promised" (yet to be seen, but...), AND enabled the B-21 Raider program... then history might remember Gates as having made a tough, yet correct decision.

Time to stop crying over spilt milk and catch up with everyone else...

I think Gates has already admitted it was an error. and it wasn't 760 that number i think died with the USSR. The number they were asking for was 381. He then scalped any air force leader that tried to correct or fight him on it.

quicksilver wrote:“Cancelling a program (allegedly) to get more B-21's, F-35's, XYZ's is ludicrous.”

Actually, it had more to do w the war that was going on at the time.

Leadership decisions like this are not simple multiple choice exams where the right/best answer in easily discerned or deduced. The options are all too frequently a study in ‘the least-worst’ alternatives, and in this day and age people are going to moan about it for decades (witness YF-23 also).

To this point, in spite of all the weeping and gnashing of teeth, the fact that we only have the F-22s we have hasn’t been a catastrophic circumstance. History still being written on it...

How did that war turn out? I was always curious about that.

quicksilver · by **quicksilver** » 31 May 2019, 12:07

“How did that war turn out? I was always curious about that.”

And relative to the F-22 decision, what’s your point?