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Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 15:52
by SpudmanWP
steve2267 wrote:because of the spiral / continuous development strategy the DOD / JPO chose

If you are talking about "concurrency, that was mandated by Congress.

WHO in the F-35 program would leak something like that?

Congressional aide from St. Louis?

I haven't read anywhere about him actually designing a flying object.

He was a paper-pushing "analyst".

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 15:55
by ricnunes
mk82 wrote:Steve2267: “ My point being the F-35 was designed to be as maneuverable as the F-16 and F/A-18. By all accounts at this point, the jet is meeting those maneuverability KPPs and the pilots say the F-35 (regularly) waxes the Viper and the Hornet. (Perhaps a little bit of inference on my part with that last bit.)“

I would say that the F-35 actually exceeded its maneuverability KPPs in many respects, especially in the high AOA regime. Dutch F35A Pilots have stated (in black and white) that they regularly gain an advantage on Vipers (with real world/operational load outs) in BFM/ACM and that the F35 could still perform competitive BFM/ACM whilst carrying bombs in the internal weapons bay!


Yes indeed.
And I would even add that even if the aircraft (F-35) "only" had and maneuverability of the F-16 and the maneuverability of the F/A-18 this by itself and alone clearly means that the aircraft (F-35) is already more maneuverable than the F-16 and more maneuverable than the F/A-18 :wink:

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 18:03
by basher54321
steve2267 wrote:Didn't Sprey chew on the F-16 a ways back -- too complicated... don't need the radar, just a radar ranging gunsight. I'm guessing Sprey was a fan of the F-20 Tigershark. Not enough gas, though. (Let alone not stealthy.) And he couldn't claim any "designership" of the F-20.



Sprey was hired by Northrop as a consultant on the program at one point according to the USAF and the reformers were pushing it (F-20) against the F-15 IIRC.

AFAIK the reason why the F-16A didn't have Sparrow from the start was purely down to USAF requirements nothing to do with Sprey even though he has made a lot of comments like that, whereas customers like Taiwan wanted a Sparrow firing F-5G.

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 18:55
by fang
Dragon029 wrote:If anyone finds that photo that's being referenced (of an F-35 flying over Beirut) be sure to post it here.

Here it is (not the best quality)...

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 19:33
by ricnunes
Thanks fang :thumb:

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 19:36
by SpudmanWP
That's not really "over" Beirut as it's a couple of miles off the coast.

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 19:48
by sprstdlyscottsmn
Also has looney lenses on top

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 20:03
by SpudmanWP
That's an interesting option to have outside of Israel....

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 23 May 2018, 22:33
by zerion

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2018, 00:16
by fang
ricnunes wrote:Thanks fang :thumb:

You most welcome!
Note probably the most important thing about this image, it been taken by another Adir pilot (with his cell phone?)
The two F-35 were flying in non-stealth mode, high altitude in a bright day light near the Russian S-400 and Syrian SA-5, SA-17, SA-22 etc. batteries.
PR not only to the IAF but also to US/LM..

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2018, 01:48
by discofishing
fang wrote:
ricnunes wrote:Thanks fang :thumb:

You most welcome!
Note probably the most important thing about this image, it been taken by another Adir pilot (with his cell phone?)
The two F-35 were flying stealth mode, high altitude in a bright day light totally undetected by the nearest Russian S-400 and Syrian SA-5, SA-17, SA-22 etc. batteries.
PR not only to the IAF but also to US/LM..


I don't know if I believe this picture. You mention stealth mode. According this article, those bumps on the top of the plane would indicate it WAS NOT in stealth mode at all.

http://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-lun ... nia-2017-5

Edit: I guess those humps are Luneberg RADAR Reflectors

http://www.radar-reflector.com/products ... -reflector

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2018, 01:56
by Dragon029
I would speculate the photo was taken from an F-16 or F-15; it's not like Lebanon puts up any physical resistance to Israeli fighters flying through their airspace enroute to Syria.

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 24 May 2018, 07:20
by fang
discofishing wrote:I don't know if I believe this picture. You mention stealth mode. According this article, those bumps on the top of the plane would indicate it WAS NOT in stealth mode at all.
I guess those humps are Luneberg RADAR Reflectors

OK TNX
That's weird, wonder if it was coordinated with the Russians..

BTW, can the F-35 jettison the Looney humps in the air? go from non-stealth to stealth

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 26 May 2018, 07:31
by mk82
Actually it makes sense for the F35I flying near Beirut to utilize Looney lenses.The Looney lenses will mask/hide the F35’s true RCS (which is very important for Israel as there are many adversarial radar systems in relatively close proximity that could be used to determine the F35’s true RCS). In addition (a poster on this thread has already mentioned this), the F35Is were not physically threatened by the Lebanese arm forces. An F35I flying with Looney lenses will just look like any other radar blip in the Middle East (F15?/F16? etc).

Re: Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

Unread postPosted: 04 Jun 2018, 01:39
by spazsinbad
How 'bout Russia claiming NOT to use equipment to target Israeli Aircraft targeting Iranian assets in Syria - way to go huh.
Israel Flies First F-35 Combat Missions
30 May 2018 Chris Pocock

"Last week’s news that Israel has flown operational missions with its F-35A "Adir" stealth fighters over Syria and Lebanon has been followed by media reports that Russia has agreed not to use its Syria-based air defense systems to engage Israeli warplanes that attack Iranian targets in Syria. [so that is why these assets could not detect F-35s <sigh>] In recent weeks, the Israeli Air Force (IAF) has attacked long-range missiles and rockets that Iran has placed in Syria to fire on Israeli territory. Two of these missions were flown by F-35s, according to IAF commander Maj Gen Amikam Norkin….

...According to Norkin, Syria has fired more than 100 Russian-supplied SA-5, SA-17, and SA-22 SAMs at IAF aircraft. “In response, we destroyed their SAM batteries,” he added. But the F-35s, and other Israeli combat jets, have apparently not been threatened by the S-300/350/400 SAM systems that Russian has deployed to Syria. Russian president Vladimir Putin is believed to have promised non-intervention during talks in Moscow with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier this month....

...“With C4I technology integrated into the Adir, the F-35 is particularly critical to countering Hezbollah’s vast rocket threat through rapid identification and prioritization of targets for the IAF,” she said, adding that the jets “can fly in what we call ‘beast mode,’ carrying up to 18,000 pounds of internal and external ordnance, in a mix that can include 5,000-pound-class weapons.”

Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... t-missions