Israel is the first to use the F-35 in combat

[blindpilot]

Of particular note.

Whether a US Marine pilot at Red Flag, or a Brit in SC, or an Israeli general ...

You don't hear a lot of "What a fantastic job it did. It worked so good ... it was amazing ... "

Of course it did, and it was ... BUT !!!

What you hear is this ...

"We are just beginning to realize the huge potential of the F-35."
That's more of a "Holy Sh**!!! do you realize that means we can .... " followed by "Not only that but we could even ... "

Double the staff working on the CONOPS ASAP! Sounds like what Berke was trying to tell us years ago ...

FWIW,
BP

[quicksilver]

Now watch people claim those 100s of SAMs were fired at F-35, because vintage Fan Song radar can track "quasi-stealth" Adir!

When they can’t see F-35, everything they CAN see becomes F-35...and they shoot at ‘it.’

[zenith]

We are flying the F-35 all over the Middle East. It has become part of our operational capabilities.

maybe they did fly to Iran.

[nutshell]

Jeez guys, this was a GLOURIUS days.

I didn't even had to argue much, just quote the 100missiles from Norkin to unleash a river of salt in some italian blogs full of ignorant haters.

Ahhh...yeah. Love you Israeli's Air Force.

[sunstersun]

Man Italy is easily the least talked about partner even though they are #2 lol.

[steve2267]

To what Blind was saying...

Go back thirty years... and some Air Force general was dreaming... "If only I could take an F-117, only stealthier, give it performance better than an F-16... give it air-to-air capabilities better than anybody except this new F-22... and, oh yeah, make it cheap enough that I could get a couple thousand -- replace all my F-16's -- ooh... ooh... what we could do then."

And that only scratches the surface.

[blindpilot]

Now watch people claim those 100s of SAMs were fired at F-35, because vintage Fan Song radar can track "quasi-stealth" Adir!

When they can’t see F-35, everything they CAN see becomes F-35...and they shoot at ‘it.’

Or you can just fly air cap from the O-Club bar ... just saying... Ever wonder how many times the F-22 guys have done that? The range of CONOPS is mind boggling ... make that triple the staff!

BP

[zero-one]

When the S-400, Su-35 and Su-57 were deployed in Syria, everyones all "US wouldn't dare deploy the F-35 now cause its dead meat out there" or "If the F-35 is so good then why don't they use it in Syria", "Stealth is a scam" blah blah blah....

[marsavian]

I suspect the F-35 is acting as a forward ISR/ESM/EW aircraft for the F-15/F-16s and their missiles. The Russians are only detecting the F-15s but I suspect the F-35s are ahead of them finding, tracking and blinding the targets for them. The purported accuracy and devastation on recent targets seemed too great to be attributable to just 4th gen aircraft firing from stand off ranges in Lebanon. The F-35 is a serious force multiplier, perhaps Sprey and his dumb followers should have been focusing on that rather than alleged poor pure dogfight characteristics.

Notice how RT/Sputnik have been giving full reign to the F-35 FUD crew like Sprey for years now because unlike those idiots they know how deadly it truly is and the less that face them the better. Sure their latest fighters can dance and pirouette in the skies like lithe ballerinas unfortunately these ballerinas are wearing blindfolds against the F-35 Lightning Adir !

[zero-one]

perhaps Sprey and his dumb followers should have been focusing on that rather than alleged poor pure dogfight characteristics.

Few theories why they did this

1. Nostalgia: Ow here we go, its Vietnam all over again, another fat, heavy and sluggish fighter with wiz bang technology that will allegedly make dogfights obsolete.....again...these guys never learn.

2. It's sexy: Lets face it, no one, looks at a plane doing a fly-by and says, "Oh man did you see how much data he transferred on that last pass" If a fighter can't turn and burn, its automatically the fat nerd in school, it gets picked on. the fat kid can hide,throw rocks at bullies before running home for dear life all he wants, but he will always be the looser.

3. less bang for the buck: when his car is more expensive than your car, you expect to everything yours can, just better. Because if you find that small niche that yours does which his can't, you can always use that against him.

[nutshell]

Man Italy is easily the least talked about partner even though they are #2 lol.

Hate and ignorance know no boundries!

[mk82]

Man Italy is easily the least talked about partner even though they are #2 lol.

Hate and ignorance know no boundries!

Loving how the F35 haterz are losing their minds now that their world has imploded LOL! So sad but so entertaining

[steve2267]

Except... the F-35 can turn and burn.

Yes, it has been expensive. (When has bleeding edge, NOT been expensive?) But that is mostly by design, if un-intended, because of the spiral / continuous development strategy the DOD / JPO chose.

The whole F-35 loses to a F-16D with two bags meme did so much damage to the F-35 reputation, I shake my head at WHO in the F-35 program would leak something like that? Why? What was the purpose? A former Boing employee full of spite? A spy? A "defense establishment" employee who personally hated the F-35 program for some reason yet it signed his/her paycheck?

My point being the F-35 was designed to be as maneuverable as the F-16 and F/A-18. By all accounts at this point, the jet is meeting those maneuverability KPPs and the pilots say the F-35 (regularly) waxes the Viper and the Hornet. (Perhaps a little bit of inference on my part with that last bit.)

Clearly Sprey knows little, if anything, about aircraft design. Yeah, maybe he had a little to do with some aircraft performance metrics in the distant past, but actual design of aircraft? I don't see it, and I haven't read anywhere about him actually designing a flying object.

Take an F-16. If you stuff enough gas in it so it doesn't need EFTs, shape its OML for stealth, tuck the weapons inside (for stealth), and go to a canted twin tail (for stealth, and not unlike that one F-16 design consideration John Will mentioned once), and a BIG honking motor to push it all... what do you end up with? An F-35.

Didn't Sprey chew on the F-16 a ways back -- too complicated... don't need the radar, just a radar ranging gunsight. I'm guessing Sprey was a fan of the F-20 Tigershark. Not enough gas, though. (Let alone not stealthy.) And he couldn't claim any "designership" of the F-20.

[ricnunes]

Didn't Sprey chew on the F-16 a ways back -- too complicated... don't need the radar, just a radar ranging gunsight. I'm guessing Sprey was a fan of the F-20 Tigershark. Not enough gas, though. (Let alone not stealthy.) And he couldn't claim any "designership" of the F-20.

The funny thing of what you mentioned above is that the F-20 Tigershark was designed to have radar and BVR air-to-air capability from the start and thus was also conceived to carry the AIM-7 Sparrow Missile from the start - something which the F-16A didn't (from the start).

[mk82]

Steve2267: “ My point being the F-35 was designed to be as maneuverable as the F-16 and F/A-18. By all accounts at this point, the jet is meeting those maneuverability KPPs and the pilots say the F-35 (regularly) waxes the Viper and the Hornet. (Perhaps a little bit of inference on my part with that last bit.)“

I would say that the F-35 actually exceeded its maneuverability KPPs in many respects, especially in the high AOA regime. Dutch F35A Pilots have stated (in black and white) that they regularly gain an advantage on Vipers (with real world/operational load outs) in BFM/ACM and that the F35 could still perform competitive BFM/ACM whilst carrying bombs in the internal weapons bay!