Navy F-35C DT-III Testing

Production milestones, roll-outs, test flights, service introduction and other milestones.
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mk82

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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 15:49

blindpilot wrote:From 5 + years ago it seems we ought to remember the wonderful contributions, Maus has made over the years ...

maus92 wrote:Mr. Palmer, an ardent critic of the JSF, refers to subscription articles on his blog that flesh out recent issues with F-35. ...However, here are some issues to follow over the course of the next few months, paraphrased :

- The tail hook on the carrier variant failed all of its tests and needs a redesign, possibly negatively impacting radar signature.
...

http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.com/2011 ... -f-35.html


A blast from the past! I think they even said, It may never be able to land on a carrier.... You have to listen to these Maus posts folks.. :D :D

BP


I follow Maus' post blindly and with vigor...hey, what are those new fangled aircraft landing on the USS George Washington (successfully too).....OH WAIT! :mrgreen:

Advise to crows.....fly away from Maus92 if you want to have a long and prosperous life :devil:
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mk82

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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 15:53

XanderCrews wrote:
maus92 wrote:Interesting tidbit revealed by a pilot during an interview associated with DT-III:

The F-35 is a lot easier to fly and a lot more difficult to operate,” than the older F-18 Super Hornet, he said, because of the immense amount of data fusing required. Manufacturers and others hope that data load will be easier to manage with the eventual release of the newer, so-called block 3F software...."

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/20 ... re/130812/



Is it bitter in here or is it just me?

Funny how maus always ignores the majority of compliments to focus on the one criticism. House wives do that


Nah, it's actually bitter...like my expresso :mrgreen:
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XanderCrews

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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 17:32

blindpilot wrote:From 5 + years ago it seems we ought to remember the wonderful contributions, Maus has made over the years ...

maus92 wrote:Mr. Palmer, an ardent critic of the JSF, refers to subscription articles on his blog that flesh out recent issues with F-35. ...However, here are some issues to follow over the course of the next few months, paraphrased :

- The tail hook on the carrier variant failed all of its tests and needs a redesign, possibly negatively impacting radar signature.
...

http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.com/2011 ... -f-35.html


A blast from the past! I think they even said, It may never be able to land on a carrier.... You have to listen to these Maus posts folks.. :D :D

BP


LOL how does redesigning the tip of a hook that retracts into the aircraft affect signature?!

Jesus lol. Why would maus give that any credibility whatsoever?!

"Possibly" LMAO a secret army of underground robots could also "possibly" exist.

That's rich. :D thanks for this post. Watching maus become more irrelevant by the day is one of the highlights of this forum
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spazsinbad

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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 17:45

'XanderCrews' said: "LOL how does redesigning the tip of a hook that retracts into the aircraft affect signature?!..."

Overall there was a bit more to it such as strengthening the arrest system bulkhead and attachment point, as well as hook point redesign. Obviously DUN GOOD not that 'maus92' has noticed; but hey - all eyes are on the dying Shornet production.
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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 19:09

Some quotes relevant to the AHS Arresting Hook System of the F-35C ashore and afloat....
F-35 Landing System by Mike Seltzer

"Dropping the hook takes approx. 2 seconds and when complete the aft door closes.

The arresting hook is made up of the pivot, the shank, and the hook.

The hook can move laterally 20 degrees in each direction without touching the airframe.

The pivot axis of the hook permits upswing of 5 deg above the waterline through the pivot axis.

When fully deployed the down arrow is extinguished and the RDY caption is illuminated. If the hook has been deployed but is not in its fully extended position - the down arrows is illuminated.

The up arrow on the button illuminates when the hook is raised but not stowed.

Max airspeed for hook extension is 300 KCAS.

[ASHORE I GUESS]
Do not engage more than 10 feet off center.

Max cable engagement speed is 150 KGS at 50,000 lbs.

Maximum MLG tire speed is 226 KGS and Maximum NLG tire speed is 217 KGS."

Source: https://quizlet.com/146184972/landing-s ... ash-cards/
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neptune

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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 19:47

spazsinbad wrote:.. Also different pilots will have different methods if they are in 'manual' to use controls. IF it is a test pilot then there may be some difficult adjustments. IF a new F-35C deck landing instructor then this is the first time etc... At that 40 second mark we see a VX-23 test aircraft and we can imagine the test pilot is working hard in testing conditions, finding out what the aircraft can do with whatever adverse variables might be at that time - they test to find limits for ordinary pilots (set out in the ARB Aircraft Recovery Bulletin)..


Not "ever" having made a trap; is the "wiggly controls" by the Salty Dogs the "test points" vs. the calm approach of the Reapers?

....or did I miss something....again?
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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 20:34

At the 40 second mark of the video a VX-23 F-35C has noticeably wiggly control surface movements. Personally I see it neither here nor there. IF a test pilot is flying - almost certain - then said pilot is testing the aircraft and approach in probably difficult conditions - especially as we know asymmetric store testing is underway (remember some stores are hidden from our view). Then there is cross wind and YADA YADA YADA.... One can find fault with anything to do with the F-35 but just chill and all will be well - especially when it ends well. Did it?
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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 21:10

First, there are plenty of things in those "flash cards" that make it clear that this is some industrious somebody somewhere who does NOT fly the jet. 'Like, what' you might ask? Combat radius. (Not because of the numbers...but because a pilot would never be quizzed on a number like that. That's fanboy stuff).

Second, most of that control surface motion is the jet doing its thing on behalf of the pilot -- largely without his or her input. In short, that is the sum total of the CLAW w IDLC and DFP. Test pilots will intentionally work test points at the far reaches of the launch and recovery envelope but lotsa control surface action isnt necessarily an indicator of pilot workload -- test pilot or otherwise.

Some will recall the early days of F-14 ops at the ship -- lotsa differential tailplane (and very large tailplanes) moving all over the place on approach behind the ship. Pilot was working hard but the jet was trying to help.
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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 21:31

Yes agree those flash cards are odd and agree about control surface movement. Just so 'maus92' does not get too excited here are some 'California Cowboy' control movement Hornet or whatever videos:







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Unread post21 Aug 2016, 22:51

blindpilot wrote:From 5 + years ago it seems we ought to remember the wonderful contributions, Maus has made over the years ...

maus92 wrote:Mr. Palmer, an ardent critic of the JSF, refers to subscription articles on his blog that flesh out recent issues with F-35. ...However, here are some issues to follow over the course of the next few months, paraphrased :

- The tail hook on the carrier variant failed all of its tests and needs a redesign, possibly negatively impacting radar signature.
...

http://elpdefensenews.blogspot.com/2011 ... -f-35.html


A blast from the past! I think they even said, It may never be able to land on a carrier.... You have to listen to these Maus posts folks.. :D :D

BP

I am not invited to the secret ELP blog so I guess these old news reports from said ELP are similar?

http://www.f-16.net/f-35-news-article4483.html
&
http://www.f-16.net/f-35-news-article4494.html
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Unread post22 Aug 2016, 00:35

spazsinbad wrote:At the 40 second mark of the video a VX-23 F-35C has noticeably wiggly control surface movements. Personally I see it neither here nor there. IF a test pilot is flying - almost certain - then said pilot is testing the aircraft and approach in probably difficult conditions - especially as we know asymmetric store testing is underway (remember some stores are hidden from our view). Then there is cross wind and YADA YADA YADA.... One can find fault with anything to do with the F-35 but just chill and all will be well - especially when it ends well. Did it?


I was just impressed by, what I assumed was a computer, making all those fast adjustments.

I assume that's still the computer working the flaps even if the test pilot was asking for edge of envelop stuff, cuz if that was a human.... :shock:
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Unread post22 Aug 2016, 01:06

F-35 Follow-On Plan Takes Shape

ABOARD THE USS GEORGE WASHINGTON—The seven Lockheed Martin F-35s onboard set a dizzying pace, catapulting off the ship, circling around and coming back in for landings every few minutes. After catching the arresting gear wire with a redesigned tailhook and lurching to a sudden stop, each jet maneuvers around the flight deck and back into position for a new launch. Fresh off the flight line, U.S. Navy pilots rave about the F-35’s advanced sensors, easy handling and ability to land ...

Subscribers only

http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-35-fo ... akes-shape
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Unread post22 Aug 2016, 01:22

citanon wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:At the 40 second mark of the video a VX-23 F-35C has noticeably wiggly control surface movements. Personally I see it neither here nor there. IF a test pilot is flying - almost certain - then said pilot is testing the aircraft and approach in probably difficult conditions - especially as we know asymmetric store testing is underway (remember some stores are hidden from our view). Then there is cross wind and YADA YADA YADA.... One can find fault with anything to do with the F-35 but just chill and all will be well - especially when it ends well. Did it?


I was just impressed by, what I assumed was a computer, making all those fast adjustments.

I assume that's still the computer working the flaps even if the test pilot was asking for edge of envelop stuff, cuz if that was a human.... :shock:

I could have made it clear my post was in response to the 'neptune' post immediately above. Yes the computer works very fast indeed to ensure it stays on the commanded glideslope (if that is what is being asked of it) and to remain at Opt AoA. The F-35C pilot will concentrate more on line up. Notice how they might arrest on the centre line lined up fore and aft with the angle deck but end up slightly to the left every time.

The carrier angle deck is moving from left to right during any carrier approach due to the angle deck with the ship steaming ahead on BRC Base Recovery Course, with the WOD being more or less down the angle deck centre line (otherwise an acceptable crosswind may be evident - test pilots find out what is OK or not). There is a scary late line up coming out of some gloop video - I imagine will give the LSOs conniptions - however in the instance seen in this video they may have been pleased to get the aircraft aboard in the situation. Late Line Ups are frowned upon because of often bad outcomes.

Check the glooper at 30 seconds and then the WIGGLES at 45 seconds. :mrgreen:

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Unread post22 Aug 2016, 01:27

Were DFP and Magic Carpet the primary reasons why Ford-class CVNs makr do with only 3 arrestor cables?
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post22 Aug 2016, 01:41

The graphic at top of page 2 of this thread shows details of a four/three wire setup. It comes from a now old LSO brief about LSO matters which is no longer available. It shows the three wire started with CVN 76 - whenever that was - dunno.

viewtopic.php?f=57&t=52238&p=350748&hilit=sheaves#p350748

http://www.uscarriers.net/cvn76history.htm [USS Ronald Reagan]

At moment I do not have access to a lot of old files such as the LSO brief. One other page I have now (that came with the graphic page) may suggest that IFLOLS and increased accuracy of installation (and maintenance) has enabled a lot of better approaches - beginning with CVN 76. The reason may not be that either. So again - dunno. When exactly was the change decided for CVN 76 from four to three wires? Dunno.
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